27956 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

I've never had any problems with DA or 4chan. I suggest getting adblock plus for Firefox if you use that as your browser. So far as antivirus goes, if you want to go free, there's always Avast!.

[aznsoisauce]

By the by, I watched She's Out Of My League recently. I'm going to avoid being all movie critic-y and just simply say that I enjoyed it. Anyway, thinking about the main character's insecurity in the movie, I have something to ask in regards to the Shepard and Garrus romance...

If their relationship turned out to be long-term, do you think either of them has insecurities having to do with being a cross-species couple?

We've talked a bit about it in the past, but there are some new regulars to the thread lately, so maybe they can add to it. 

[Collider]

aznsoisauce wrote...
If their relationship turned out to be long-term, do you think either of them has insecurities having to do with being a cross-species couple?

I can't imagine femshep being insecure considering how the romance begins and progresses. Possibly Garrus as he is new to humans and is kind of awkward about it. But truly I think that if it's long term he'll get over it fairly quickly.

[aznsoisauce]

Collider wrote...

Honestly, that could be applicable to any of the other romances

I'm not sure if that's really fair to say. I didn't get the love at first sight impression from any love interest.

Thus the use of the word 'could.' For the other LIs for FemShep (specifically Kaidan and Thane), I don't feel like it would be too much of a stretch if a fanfic writer felt inclined to say it was love/lust at first sight.

[Pannamaslo]

Sialater wrote...

Collider wrote...

Sialater wrote...

The one problem I have with Garrus is getting him out of character. We're not given a whole lot, even across two games. I also don't buy the whole, "He's been in love with her since the Presidium," thing either that I've seen in a lot of fics.

Yea. I've seen stuff like this before. Like I said, I imagine it to be projection. I also think it's a disservice to Garrus to say that he fell in love with her at first sight. It may be romantic to some, but I'd like to think that Garrus is less shallow. Not to mention the romance doesn't seem to give any indication that the presidium thing has an ounce to it.

Exactly.  I'll buy intrigued, I'll buy curious, I'll even buy self-service.... But instant lust in a character who tells you, "I've never looked at a human like that before.  But you're different, you're Shepard."  Flirty/suggestive dialogue aside, there's no love at first sight here.

Actually he never said that . He said that he does not have fetish for humans, which is really interesting statement becasue you can interpret this in many different ways:
1) Ick. Humans are ugly, but you are Shepard!
2)I don't have sick obsession with humans aka I don't want you just because you are human.
3) Humans are pleasing, but I never considered them as sexual partners. But you are Shepard!
4) This is just wirters excuse why he was not LI in the first game. (I vote for this one XD)

Love since the presidium: Lust or sexual attraction is needed for a romantic realtionship (at least at the begining). It does not matter if it's instant or gradual. In humans (in most cases) you see a person (interact with) and you need 30 seconds to asses whether is attractive to you in a sexual sense, also this assesment  rarely changes, even when you become firends (interestingly study shows that in 60% of cross-sex friendships one side is attracted in a sexual manner - mostly male). So I would say that there should be at least some degree of attraction at the begining, but love? Come on...

EDIT: I also don't read fan-fics, so I really don't know how that was handled in most of them.

Modifié par Pannamaslo, 22 mars 2010 - 06:08 .

[ELE08]

aznsoisauce wrote...

If their relationship turned out to be long-term, do you think either of them has insecurities having to do with being a cross-species couple?

First reaction, not really.  Both Garrus and Shepard are very driven and independent individuals.  Garrus, hot headed cowboy cop, didn't care what C-SEC thinks, didn't care what his father thinks, self proclaimed 'not a very good turian.'  Shepard, consistently does what she thinks is best without regard to political fallout and if you're renegade, without regard to the reaction back home (case in point punching out that reporter.)  I don't see either of them getting too caught up in the social ramifications of their relationship.

Unless you're asking about more practical matters, like how they don't eat the same food or may be allergic to eath other.  Anything I can think of seems easily overcome, and the entire 'allergy' thing I think gets overblown (discussed a few pages back.)   

I'm personally curious as to the reaction they would receive from those close to them who find out they are involved in that way (Councilor Anderson, Kaidan, the crew.)  I don't however, see them getting much of a reaction from being seen in public.  Neither seems like they would be big on PDA, and the game shows humans and turians fraternizing in public without a problem (specific example, first place you enter on the Citadel shows a human woman sitting with a turian standing in front of her talking.)

[Pannamaslo]

ELE08 wrote...

aznsoisauce wrote...

If their relationship turned out to be long-term, do you think either of them has insecurities having to do with being a cross-species couple?

I'm personally curious as to the reaction they would receive from those close to them who find out they are involved in that way (Councilor Anderson, Kaidan, the crew.)  I don't however, see them getting much of a reaction from being seen in public.  Neither seems like they would be big on PDA, and the game shows humans and turians fraternizing in public without a problem (specific example, first place you enter on the Citadel shows a human woman sitting with a turian standing in front of her talking.)

Since human women look like Asari, I believe there should be quite a few couples.

Modifié par Pannamaslo, 22 mars 2010 - 06:20 .

[Ms Cherissa]

Collider wrote...

aznsoisauce wrote...
If their relationship turned out to be long-term, do you think either of them has insecurities having to do with being a cross-species couple?

I can't imagine femshep being insecure considering how the romance begins and progresses. Possibly Garrus as he is new to humans and is kind of awkward about it. But truly I think that if it's long term he'll get over it fairly quickly.

This.

[aznsoisauce]

Pannamaslo wrote...

Since human women look like Asari, I believe there should be quite a few couples.

And humans have hair!
It's new and exciting. (For some reason, I said this in an Irish accent.)

[ELE08]

Pannamaslo wrote...

Love since the presidium: Lust or sexual attraction is needed for a romantic realtionship (at least at the begining). It does not matter if it's instant or gradual. In humans (in most cases) you see a person (interact with) and you need 30 seconds to asses whether is attractive to you in a sexual sense, also this assesment  rarely changes, even when you become firends (interestingly study shows that in 60% of cross-sex friendships one side is attracted in a sexual manner - mostly male). So I would say that there should be at least some degree of attraction at the begining, but love? Come on...

Immediately made me think of this.  This brings up a point about why I love the GarrusxShepard relationship so much.  Their initial relationship has no sexual undertones or ulterior motives (erm, maybe for the player) because they're a different species from each other.  I get the impression that Garrus has not previously even considered being with a human (which sort of throws the love at first sight thing out the window.)  They are friends first and foremost, and it's based on genuine appreciation for the other's personality.  Lust doesn't come into play until later when the friendship is already solid.

[Flammie]

Now I'm curious, what is it that some fanfic writers do that puts Garrus out of character?

Well, I think both get quite a bit of fire from other things, anyway, so it's not as if they're going to care much about public reactions to them. I also don't think they have a personal problem with the other in terms of being cross-species, I only think their main problem is how they're moving regardless of their work-relationship.

I actually find Garrus's statement about not having a fetish for humans quite endearing. I take it that he means that just because he's not sexually attracted to humans doesn't mean he's not going to try to make this work with Shepard. Of course, there's plenty of different ways we can look at and take his views and personality towards the relationship's development, and they could all be right, but I find it quite endearing.

I think there may be something there about friendships and relationships generally starting with some sort of attraction, sexual or not. I have a feeling the study could have also considered there may be some basis in same-sex friendships, too.

I'm pretty sure I'm not attracted to the girls I make friends with. And I really doubt that they're attracted to me. Put me in the 40%, I guess.

Modifié par Flammie, 22 mars 2010 - 06:30 .

[Collider]

Flammie wrote...
I think there may be something there about friendships and relationships generally starting with some sort of attraction, sexual or not.

Uh, I'd imagine so =p. Friendships start because you are attracted to the person's personality or your history with them - if you want to say that attraction isn't necessarily sexual.

I'm pretty sure I'm not attracted to the girls I make friends with. And I really doubt that they're attracted to me. Put me in the 40%, I guess.

Human nature and personality is very complex, I don't think it's fair or soon enough to say that there is some romantic undertones to just being friends. We haven't even unraveled the human genome completely just yet, I think we're still far behind in unraveling the human personality.

[Pannamaslo]

Flammie wrote...

I think there may be something there about friendships and relationships generally starting with some sort of attraction, sexual or not. I have a feeling the study could have also considered there may be some basis in same-sex friendships, too.

I'm pretty sure I'm not attracted to the girls I make friends with. And I really doubt that they're attracted to me. Put me in the 40%, I guess.

If you are interested here is one of a studies.

vpa.syr.edu/crs/FacultyProfile/faulkner%20pdf/crosssex.pdf

Psychology is very inconsistent in terms of attraction. There are some established things, like this assesment of sexual attraction I wrote about, but not too many.

Modifié par Pannamaslo, 22 mars 2010 - 06:35 .

[aznsoisauce]

ELE08 wrote...

Pannamaslo wrote...

Love since the presidium: Lust or sexual attraction is needed for a romantic realtionship (at least at the begining). It does not matter if it's instant or gradual. In humans (in most cases) you see a person (interact with) and you need 30 seconds to asses whether is attractive to you in a sexual sense, also this assesment  rarely changes, even when you become firends (interestingly study shows that in 60% of cross-sex friendships one side is attracted in a sexual manner - mostly male). So I would say that there should be at least some degree of attraction at the begining, but love? Come on...

Immediately made me think of this.  This brings up a point about why I love the GarrusxShepard relationship so much.  Their initial relationship has no sexual undertones or ulterior motives (erm, maybe for the player) because they're a different species from each other.  I get the impression that Garrus has not previously even considered being with a human (which sort of throws the love at first sight thing out the window.)  They are friends first and foremost, and it's based on genuine appreciation for the other's personality.  Lust doesn't come into play until later when the friendship is already solid.

It's things like this that make me appreciate not being able to romance Garrus in the first game.

Playing  through ME2, I tried to role play the mentality that Shepard already died once...so seize the f*cking day.

[ELE08]

Flammie wrote...

I actually find Garrus's statement about not having a fetish for humans quite endearing. I take it that he means that just because he's not sexually attracted to humans doesn't mean he's not going to try to make this work with Shepard. Of course, there's plenty of different ways we can look at and take his views and personality towards the relationship's development, and they could all be right, but I find it quite endearing.

I take it to mean he's not normally attracted to humans but he's attracted to Shepard because she's special ......  Excuse me while I go shoot things.  Sweetness overload.

I don't think Garrus would have proceeded with the relationship if there wasn't sexual attraction on his part.

[Pannamaslo]

ELE08 wrote...

Flammie wrote...

I actually find Garrus's statement about not having a fetish for humans quite endearing. I take it that he means that just because he's not sexually attracted to humans doesn't mean he's not going to try to make this work with Shepard. Of course, there's plenty of different ways we can look at and take his views and personality towards the relationship's development, and they could all be right, but I find it quite endearing.

I take it to mean he's not normally attracted to humans but he's attracted to Shepard because she's special ......  Excuse me while I go shoot things.  Sweetness overload.

I don't think Garrus would have proceeded with the relationship if there wasn't sexual attraction on his part.

He may also develop some fetish later:bandit: Once you go human...

[Daewan]

The visual cue when Garrus says that he doesn't have a fetish for humans is an interesting contradiction. ("Boobies!")

[Flammie]

Blargh, I guess I could have worded everything better, and I'm not sure I honestly have any idea what I'm talking about. I was just venturing my views, and I'd rather not think about it any more. I lack the capacity to think greatly about these sentimentalities, attractions and relationships. I need calibrating.




Thinking about how Garrus's feelings could have developed and how and what triggered when we start the relationship makes me a little dizzy. There's just far too much to agree with/think about.



It's curious, actually, is it possible to fall in love with somebody without being sexually attracted to them? I guess we can't just map the human mind and personality to numbers and words, despite all these studies, but these are still things that could be worth thinking about.

[Collider]

Flammie wrote...
It's curious, actually, is it possible to fall in love with somebody without being sexually attracted to them?

I'd say yes, but an important thing to note is that many people disagree on what constitutes as love. Ideally, however, love transcends what is physical, although it may be enhanced by it of course. I may point out the old couples who are wrinkled and haggard but still genuinely love each other.

[Pannamaslo]

Flammie wrote...

It's curious, actually, is it possible to fall in love with somebody without being sexually attracted to them? I guess we can't just map the human mind and personality to numbers and words, despite all these studies, but these are still things that could be worth thinking about.

ww3.hofstra.edu/pdf/Community/slzctr/stdcsl/stdcsl_triangular.pdf

Depends on what kind of love are you talking about... This is one of the most popular and tested pszchological models. Generallz romantic love, to which people mostlz refer to as ¤love¤ recquires arousal and sexual attraction.

[Collider]

You're treading a very subjective road when you start talking about love. Very.

[Pannamaslo]

Collider wrote...

You're treading a very subjective road when you start talking about love. Very.

I am a psychologist, I try to make subjective things systematic and understandable. This model was tested zillion times with psychometric tools. It works, but I wont forget that every human is different and needs individuall approach.

[Collider]

Pannamaslo wrote...

Collider wrote...

You're treading a very subjective road when you start talking about love. Very.

I am a psychologist, I try to make subjective things systematic and understandable. This model was tested zillion times with psychometric tools. It works, but I wont forget that every human is different and needs individuall approach.

Like I said, I think it's important that what constitutes as love varies from person to person - for example, many would consider teenage relationships as devoid of genuine and true love. While we do have many insights into the human mind and personality, I don't think we're far enough to make many concrete conclusions, especially in the emotional ambiguity of love. We haven't unraveled all of the secrets to humankind quite yet. That is the reason why I very much dislike dogmatic adherence to Freudian theories, for example.

[Sialater]

Daewan wrote...

The visual cue when Garrus says that he doesn't have a fetish for humans is an interesting contradiction. ("Boobies!")

Wait... rewind... what?

[Flammie]

Ugh, I've never even thought about how complicated that word is. I guess it was interesting to think about out loud and see other people's views, even if I haven't got any developed ones, and I pushed it a little far. I probably shouldn't even be thinking about it. It's nice to ponder, I guess, but I liked being young and unaware and not having a feeling like my head wants to explode.

I guess sometimes it's something you just have to experience it for yourself to help think about. Currently it's something I've never had even a slight brush with *cough*.


Sialeter, I can't remember if it happened, but maybe after Garrus said that line, he looked down, whilst Shepard was standing in front of him? I think you can see what it'd look like.

Modifié par Flammie, 22 mars 2010 - 07:02 .