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[Brass_Buckles]

Anyone else receive the email from Dr. Michel? Seemed she had a crush on Garrus. Makes you wonder if he'd have considered dating her, if he knew--or maybe he did, since he never returned her calls/emails.

[Gerse1]

People are fixating wayyyyy too much on the female turian from Garrus's story. I would be prepared to bet RL $$$ that she is not going to be part of any story in ME3. I think it was just a one time thing, like someone said. An excuse for the writers to make Garrus talk about doin' the nasty, so Shep could seize the moment. If not, then I will eat my words...in 2+ years.

And like Anastassia said, the allergic reaction thing was already kind of dealt with. People are acting like he is radioactive. It's only a *chance* of a reaction, and not necessarily a fatal one at that. The way I see it, even if they avoided kissing, there's no way they "relieved their stress" before the suicide mission without getting SOME kind of, er, fluid, on/in each other. Shep and Gar-bear (hehehe) are still alive and kickin' for the suicide mission and afterwards, so I think it's safe to assume they aren't that much of a danger to each other. At most there was a rash that Shepard didn't complain about in public

EDIT: for Freudian slip.

Modifié par Gerse1, 22 février 2010 - 02:32 .

[Brass_Buckles]

Gerse1 wrote...

People are fixating wayyyyy too much on the female turian from Garrus's story. I would be prepared to bet RL $$$ that she is not going to be part of any story in ME3. I think it was just a one time thing, like someone said. An excuse for the writers to make Garrus talk about doin' the nasty, so Shep could seize the moment. If not, then I will eat my words...in 2+ years.

And like Anastassia said, the allergic reaction thing was already kind of dealt with. People are acting like he is radioactive. It's only a *chance* of a reaction, and not necessarily a fatal one at that. The way I see it, even if they avoided kissing, there's no way they "relieved their stress" before the suicide mission without getting SOME kind of, er, fluid, on/in each other. Shep and Gar-bear (hehehe) are still alive and kickin' for the suicide mission and afterwards, so I think it's safe to assume they aren't that much of a danger to each other. At most there was a rash that Shepard didn't complain about in public

EDIT: for Freudian slip.

I saw it when you had the Freudian slip in.  It was hilarious.

That aside, are you sure you mean "rash" and not, you know, "chafing?" 

[Annora]

Brass_Buckles wrote...
And re: previous poster on modding the game:  Sooner or later, they'll probably release a mod tool that will make it easier to change things.  They did for Dragon Age.  I could be wrong.  After all they don't seem to have announced any such tool.

A toolset won't be released for the Mass Effect games because it's not BioWare's engine, it's the Unreal Engine. Whereas Dragon Age (and Neverwinter Nights before that) was built from the ground up in-house, they're leasing the use of the Unreal Engine.

[MarginalBeast]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

Anyone else receive the email from Dr. Michel? Seemed she had a crush on Garrus. Makes you wonder if he'd have considered dating her, if he knew--or maybe he did, since he never returned her calls/emails.

Haha yeah, we were talking about that at one point in the old thread. I think we all agreed that she may have (or have had) a little crush on the guy.

I know this likely isn't the case, but maybe she's the doctor that Kaiden was dating. That would make the situation incredibly interesting. ...And now that I think about it, I actually think she and Kaiden would make a cute couple.

Modifié par MarginalBeast, 22 février 2010 - 02:49 .

[Brass_Buckles]

MarginalBeast wrote...

Brass_Buckles wrote...

Anyone else receive the email from Dr. Michel? Seemed she had a crush on Garrus. Makes you wonder if he'd have considered dating her, if he knew--or maybe he did, since he never returned her calls/emails.

Haha yeah, we were talking about that at one point in the old thread. I think we all agreed that she may have (or have had) a little crush on the guy.

I know this likely isn't the case, but maybe she's the doctor that Kaiden was dating. That would make the situation incredibly interesting. ...And now that I think about it, I actually think she and Kaiden would make a cute couple.

I thought it was pretty clear that she had a crush on Garrus, what with all the gushing about Garrus and the minimal excitement that Shepard was still alive.  She really just wanted to see Garrus again, preferably without Shepard accompanying him.  Frankly it's a pity you couldn't go visit her.  I'd have loved to see her flirt with Garrus and watch him get increasingly uncomfortable.  I thought maybe she was meant to represent the Garrus fangirls a little.   Like you, I think that maybe she was that doctor Kaidan had been dating--which would be really funny if she had a crush on Garrus.  And why wouldn't she?  I mean Garrus did kind of sweep in to save her life.

[MarginalBeast]

Yeah, I couldn't really blame her for it either. I wouldn't necessarily say that she didn't want to see Shepard, though. Shepard DID help save her life and then help her again (if you did her sidequest).

And I really wanted to visit her! It's a shame that the Citadel is so much smaller in ME2. :|

Modifié par MarginalBeast, 22 février 2010 - 03:05 .

[Gerse1]

What does her email say to Garrus??????? How come I didn't get one? *pouts*

[Nightfire78]

I think the allergy thing is possibly blown a bit out of proportion, like with the idea you got initially that quarians die the second a bacteria looks at them. I mean Tali has the lowest immune system of all PLUS the backward amino thing and her species reacts allergically to even the air their fellow quarians breath when they initially link atmospheres, but from what I've seen of that love scene, she's *definitely* kissing Shep. Obviously, she's not dead after and Shep's not in the med bay on life support
I find it highly unlikely that saliva-exchange would then take out Garrus/Shep. if even the non-immune system person w/ allergies to everything gets through it ok.

Also, the codex says the amino acids can lead to deadly allergic reaction if not immediately treated... 1. Chakwas and Mordin are about 2 minutes away and 2. if they know allergic reactions can happen, I would assume they'd have the appropriate countermeasures close at hand (epipen or whatever the turian equivalent would be). The key word, however, is *can*. I assume that, like with most human allergies, there are different levels: I eat peanuts fine, my cousin can eat a couple but then gets a sore throat, a friend of mine smells a peanut and her airways start closing (she always carries around the pen and has had several bad reactions that she's survived just fine, so I would also like to add that even a severe reaction isn't insta-death as it's sometimes played out to be).

I would assume that the batarian gave Shep. the turian/quarian drink as poison, all it did was knock her out for a bit (and the game seems to suggest that, for whatever reason, the alchohol version is worse than regular food - perhaps higher concentration or just a "bad mix" like most meds + alch.). This gives us no info on Garrus, of course, but if you also have a turian running around eating human donuts, it's a safe bet that not every turian has the problem, and I don't see that it's any less "realistic" to assume Garrus is one of those who don't than to assume that he's one of those who has major problems, as I have not seen any statistics to indicate that one is more likely than the other. (okay that looks like a bit of a rant on allergies LOL... this is what med. school does to people's brains. save your children while you can )

Anyhoo, since the teeth are on the outsides of the turian mouth and the upper lip is clearly flexible/softer than the lower lip and can close to the bottom one, I think a kiss on the mouth should be possible, by which I mean a lip kiss, not necessarily frenching (don't know enough about turian anatomy to say if it would be comfortable for either party nor about turian, er, "interests" to know if it would even be something they'd want... - hey, it's not all about what humans like - I just don't think saliva would be the issue).

[Nightfire78]

Gerse1 wrote...

People are fixating wayyyyy too much on the female turian from Garrus's story. I would be prepared to bet RL $$$ that she is not going to be part of any story in ME3. I think it was just a one time thing, like someone said. An excuse for the writers to make Garrus talk about doin' the nasty, so Shep could seize the moment. If not, then I will eat my words...in 2+ years.

And like Anastassia said, the allergic reaction thing was already kind of dealt with. People are acting like he is radioactive. It's only a *chance* of a reaction, and not necessarily a fatal one at that. The way I see it, even if they avoided kissing, there's no way they "relieved their stress" before the suicide mission without getting SOME kind of, er, fluid, on/in each other. Shep and Gar-bear (hehehe) are still alive and kickin' for the suicide mission and afterwards, so I think it's safe to assume they aren't that much of a danger to each other. At most there was a rash that Shepard didn't complain about in public

EDIT: for Freudian slip.

Seems it took me an hour to write my reply cause you beat me to it and it says "posted 1 hour ago". I must have landed in some kind of time warp Anyway, I agree on both counts 

[Punahedan]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Ooh, could someone post Garrus's Terra Firma response lines? It does depend on your party makeup, and somehow I've never gotten his comments.

If I have a save near that point, I'll transcribe it soon. Unless someone else beats me to it, which is not unlikely with y'all.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Hawkeyed Cai Li wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Ooh, could someone post Garrus's Terra Firma response lines? It does depend on your party makeup, and somehow I've never gotten his comments.

If I have a save near that point, I'll transcribe it soon. Unless someone else beats me to it, which is not unlikely with y'all.

I have, take Garrus and Tali with you. Talk to racist and then hear everything. In one part Garrus leaves the guy speechless, I believe it's when you tell the guy he's a pencil pusher. I really wish they would have put that racist back in ME2. Also it might interest you to know that if you use Tali and Garrus, Garrus is the one who Captain Anderson asks about Shepard right after Sovereign is destroyed. His face is filled with happiness when he sees that Shepard survived.

[aznsoisauce]

On the topic of allergies...

Everyone mentions the failed Batarian bartender poison attempt and Shepard not being entirely human anymore. I am inclined to agree Shepard should be a-o-k and survive any Garrus lovins. At worst, I can see either of them suffering from inflammation of the skin, itchiness, etc. but nothing life threatening. That being said...Duncan's beard, I have some comics to draw... (Yes yes, I say something about Duncan's beard in place of saying something like "oh my god.")

Also, I myself am allergic to peanuts and other legumes. With peanuts, it's practically certain death. Other legumes get a reaction from me that ranges from extreme discomfort to just a bit itchy around the mouth (puffy lips, too). So...I guess that's what I would imagine for an allergic reaction for either Shepard or Garrus.

Aaannnnnnd...Someone mentioned a "Remember: Stay Hydrated" Advice Garrus?? Wow. Incredible that it hasn't been made yet...

Edit: Regarding your council decision at the end of ME1...I dunno about Garrus, but Tali ALWAYS tells me to kill 'em. It seems to be the only in-character advice for that decision. XD

Modifié par aznsoisauce, 22 février 2010 - 04:40 .

[siltsonata]

Man.  I get so left in the dust on this thread on weekends.

On Garrus: Friends with benefits or nay:

Gerse1 wrote...
I got the impression it was more than FWB from the beginning, at least for Garrus, but that at first he was just trying so hard to play it cool and casual because a) Shepard's initial come-on  *is* pretty casual, and she uses the whole "to relieve stress" reason, sort of like he just happened to be in the right place at the right time, and he's basically trying to mirror her attitude and not ruin it,  it catches him off guard, and he probably doesn't know quite what to say or think at first, it's an interspecies relationship for him too, he's probably gotta work up to the idea just like her  c) well he DOES admit she makes him nervous (d'awwwwww). 

But the point is I think it's possible it was never *solely* a FWB thing for him (or either of them, imho).  And at any rate, to me the final romance scene made that clear beyond a doubt (especially his reaction if you reject him). 

You are correct.  Ten points to Gryffindor. (No, seriously, you just echoed my sentiments exactly. THANK YOU.)

On Tali's engame "I has a sick" dialogue:  could be just a glitch because I definitely had a generic "yay we won" dialogue from her, but I did wonder if we're not just getting confused with the ripped suit dialogue that she mentions after her loyalty mission?  She does get sick if you talk to her and mentions she took a hit on the Alarei and got sloppy with suit repair.  No "totally worth it" mention, though.

On turian/human kissing: I don't understand why people keep saying he doesn't have lips.  Maybe not super-flexible ones like humans, but he does have a flexible part of his mouth that allows him to form words, you see them moving.  Do I think this would make for a comfortable traditional human kiss? No.  It's just a little bit of confusion I have. (And you know that it is not going to stop my Shep from giving him affectionate little kisses on the surface of his face anyway, even if he thinks it's weird. He can deal with it.)

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...
I have, take Garrus and Tali with you. Talk to racist and then hear everything. In one part Garrus leaves the guy speechless, I believe it's when you tell the guy he's a pencil pusher. I really wish they would have put that racist back in ME2. Also it might interest you to know that if you use Tali and Garrus, Garrus is the one who Captain Anderson asks about Shepard right after Sovereign is destroyed. His face is filled with happiness when he sees that Shepard survived.

I...I am SO happy right now.:crying:Thank you. THANK YOU.  I have been trying to put Garrus in the Anderson questioning spot in that cutscene for every playthrough so far, and eventually when Anderson went over to freakin' WREX, I just gave up and figured that if the GODDAMN KROGAN was really the more emotional of the two options then I just didn't care anymore.  Now I can finally get the ending I want. Yesssss.

Gerse1 wrote...

What does her email say to Garrus??????? How come I didn't get one? *pouts*

This was troubling me, too, since everybody was talking about this email and I never once got it. I trudged my way through a ME1 playthrough this week and completed Michel's sidequest where she's being blackmailed, imported the save and got the email.  I can only assume that's the reason.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Yeah I also hated that everytime Captain Anderson questioned somone he shouldn't have. Now it's Tali and Garrus forever with my Vanguard and my Sentinel. That cutscene is so much better if it's Garrus the one that is questioned and looks at you when you appear to have survived.

[SavageLycan]

aznsoisauce wrote...

Aaannnnnnd...Someone mentioned a "Remember: Stay Hydrated" Advice Garrus?? Wow. Incredible that it hasn't been made yet...

Ask, and ye shall recieve...

[aznsoisauce]

What cracks me up the most about that Advice Garrus is the huge font size for "REMEMBER:"

[Tootles FTW]

Von Verrikan wrote...
Wow! <_<

So jacob gets an extra scene? God.. You know I don't want to really yell at bioware, but come the hell on. How do you create a few extra scenes for LI's like that without consideration for everyone!? You know how happy it would have made us for some closure similar to that?

I mean come on guys, back me up here, wouldn't an extra scene after the suicide mission like that with garrus have made you happy forever? I know it would have with me! Instead (either intentional or unintentional) we get garrus seemingly ignoring us.. Uncool..

This may seem trivial to some, but I feel it deserves mention from Bioware. Either you give an extra to everybody, or nobody at all. You can't just pick and choose and say "OH derp this LI Is more important so we'll give him one" They are all equally important - they were the second you gave us the option to romance them

I've been trying to explain to a male friend of mine why I found Jacob so insufferable.  He was of the mindset that Jacob was a decent "bro" character and I just didn't like him because he's not Garrus.  He could not comprehend why I was getting so irritated at the Jacob romance being shoved down our collective FemShep throats.

And then...I mentioned that Jacob gets an endgame makeout scene.  A diehard Tali fan, even he could now see the utter bullcrap in this preferential LI treatment.  He/MaleShep's get their "totally worth it" dialogue, but we get nothing unless we had sleazy porn sex with Jacob?  I cry foul, Bioware, and that makes me sad.

On the plus-side, I had Jacob crawl through the vents in my renegade playthrough.  Have fun romancing that rocket to the face, dude.  

Modifié par Tootles FTW, 22 février 2010 - 05:14 .

[Brass_Buckles]

Well... Garrus is probably still busy with those calibrations.  Either that or he's decided to "optimize his firing algorithms"--so he needs a little time before he can be alone with Shepard again.  :innocent:

But yeah, it is kind of cheap--and what I've seen around of Jacob's romance does not make me eager to romance him.  I mean, he's got a great "good guy" personality so I had considered romancing him on another playthrough.  Maybe I still will, just to form my own official opinion.  But, knowing that he's got something going on with Miranda already doesn't make me feel any better about it.

Thane I've avoided because A) he's not my current Shepard's type (which happens to be "someone with whom I share mutual trust and respect") and  I really don't look forward to the tragedy that you know is coming in ME3 unless he's healed.  I like his personality, but his flashbacks are downright annoying.  Also I'm annoyed at the fact that clearly, all he wants from Fem-Sheppe is for her to fall in love with him--he gets two opportunities to start flirting with him, whereas from what I have noticed, everyone else only has one.  He doesn't want to be just friends and he makes that clear when he starts calling her "siha" even when she hasn't flirted with him.  And yet he never considers that maybe if she did decide to care for him, he'd be ripping her heart out once he dies in the near future--or if she never really cared that much for him in the first place.

[siltsonata]

Tootles FTW wrote...
On the plus-side, I had Jacob crawl through the vents in my renegade playthrough.  Have fun romancing that rocket to the face, dude.  

I didn't want to lol at this.  I really didn't.  But I couldn't help it. 

Brass_Buckles wrote...
Thane I've avoided because A) he's not my current Shepard's type (which happens to be "someone with whom I share mutual trust and respect") and  I really don't look forward to the tragedy that you know is coming in ME3 unless he's healed.  I like his personality, but his flashbacks are downright annoying.  Also I'm annoyed at the fact that clearly, all he wants from Fem-Sheppe is for her to fall in love with him--he gets two opportunities to start flirting with him, whereas from what I have noticed, everyone else only has one.  He doesn't want to be just friends and he makes that clear when he starts calling her "siha" even when she hasn't flirted with him.  And yet he never considers that maybe if she did decide to care for him, he'd be ripping her heart out once he dies in the near future--or if she never really cared that much for him in the first place.

Well, I loved his flashbacks.  I thought they were awesome, which I guess puts me in the minority since most people seemed to find them creepy.  If he gets two opportunities to start flirting when everyone else has one, well, that makes me sad. <---see?

However I don't in the slightest think he's unaccepting of being just friends.  I went through my first playthrough just soaking up all the Garrusness and not romancing Thane, and it felt pretty natural despite "Siha".  He isn't pushy at all, and I didn't even get the romance vibe from him at all until I found out what siha meant later. So I interpreted it as Thane falling in love with you, but keeping it totally bottled up because he realizes how hopeless this is what with him dying and all, and he recognizes the fact that you haven't shown any interest anyway. 

[I Vigil I]

Garrus is definately my fave character in the franchise happy to help support him for ME3

[Brass_Buckles]

siltsonata wrote...

Tootles FTW wrote...
On the plus-side, I had Jacob crawl through the vents in my renegade playthrough.  Have fun romancing that rocket to the face, dude.  

I didn't want to lol at this.  I really didn't.  But I couldn't help it. 

Brass_Buckles wrote...
Thane I've avoided because A) he's not my current Shepard's type (which happens to be "someone with whom I share mutual trust and respect") and  I really don't look forward to the tragedy that you know is coming in ME3 unless he's healed.  I like his personality, but his flashbacks are downright annoying.  Also I'm annoyed at the fact that clearly, all he wants from Fem-Sheppe is for her to fall in love with him--he gets two opportunities to start flirting with him, whereas from what I have noticed, everyone else only has one.  He doesn't want to be just friends and he makes that clear when he starts calling her "siha" even when she hasn't flirted with him.  And yet he never considers that maybe if she did decide to care for him, he'd be ripping her heart out once he dies in the near future--or if she never really cared that much for him in the first place.

Well, I loved his flashbacks.  I thought they were awesome, which I guess puts me in the minority since most people seemed to find them creepy.  If he gets two opportunities to start flirting when everyone else has one, well, that makes me sad. <---see?

However I don't in the slightest think he's unaccepting of being just friends.  I went through my first playthrough just soaking up all the Garrusness and not romancing Thane, and it felt pretty natural despite "Siha".  He isn't pushy at all, and I didn't even get the romance vibe from him at all until I found out what siha meant later. So I interpreted it as Thane falling in love with you, but keeping it totally bottled up because he realizes how hopeless this is what with him dying and all, and he recognizes the fact that you haven't shown any interest anyway. 

I dunno, I figured there was something to do with romance involved the moment he called my Shepard "siha" and that was before I came to the spoiler forums.  I beat the game with no spoilers, go me!  He might not be pushy about it, but, there's something about Thane that just strikes me as obvious, you know?  And maybe it isn't even about Shepard.  Shepard is unique as people go, but at the same time, he knows he's dying and he's been alone for years.  Maybe he just wants one last epic romance before he dies--to the point where maybe he's even hoping Shepard will fall for him out of sympathy.  I guess he might be awesome if I tried romancing him--lots of female players seem to adore him.  It's just that he seems overly sappy--and when I say this, I say this from the standpoint of someone who adored Alistair in Dragon Age.   And again, I don't like the idea that he's likely to die in ME3, if he makes it that long.  Oh sure, it leaves you free to chase Kaidan and any new romances, but poor Shepard would need recovery time first, I would think.  His appearance disturbs me even worse than Garrus's, though that could be because I've gotten used to Garrus.  Thane reminds me of a cobra, appearance-wise.

Maybe part of my aversion to Thane is because I've already spoiled myself with seeing that last scene of Garrus's romance.  It's hard to top how adorable that is--despite the leadup being anything but (well, okay, it is kind of cute that Garrus keeps trying to let Shepard know that it's not just because he wants to relieve stress with her, and that he's extremely awkward with her--but the intentions at that point are not 100% clear on either side).  Bear in mind that I think Garrus is quite ugly even before getting scarred (well artistically he's very interesting and maybe even pretty but not... in a human attractiveness standpoint, to me), so it says a lot that I still adore his romance.

I never thought Kaidan's romance was all that great, either, even though he's a good-looking guy for a video game character.  He was too hesitant, and he rambled and lectured a lot.  Then in ME2 he made me like him even less with his outburst at Horizon.  It's not that I blame him for his anger from a characterization standpoing, but he showed no trust in Shepard at all, and you can't have a relationship without trust.  Again, what was she supposed to do, reach out to him through a haunting or a seance?  She was dead.  Maybe he doesn't believe her on that, but he also believes she went to Cerberus willingly.  Also, I don't like his voice.  You guys are totally right about Garrus having an awesome voice--switch his and Kaidan's and the rest of Kaidan's personality might have been more tolerable.

[Tootles FTW]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

Anyone else receive the email from Dr. Michel? Seemed she had a crush on Garrus. Makes you wonder if he'd have considered dating her, if he knew--or maybe he did, since he never returned her calls/emails.

I've played through twice and never received this!  What does she say (the skank!)?

[aznsoisauce]

Just wanted to pop in and let you guys know I made a poll regarding Turians. It's a very simple straight forward on (either yes or no) addressing the physical attractiveness of Turians. I want to get opinions from this thread in particular.

Do you find Turians physically attractive?

I have stated it a few times before: I think Turians in general are very sexy.
It wasn't until I played Mass Effect that I realized I am probably a xenophile. In retrospect, though, there was plenty of evidence prior to Mass Effect and Turians. I am an anime and manga fan, after all (yeah yeah, asian stereotype) and have developed an addiction to all things moe and harbor some abnormal fetishes. But if I didn't have this kind of history, would I still think Turians were attractive?

[siltsonata]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

I dunno, I figured there was something to do with romance involved the moment he called my Shepard "siha" and that was before I came to the spoiler forums.  I beat the game with no spoilers, go me!  He might not be pushy about it, but, there's something about Thane that just strikes me as obvious, you know?  And maybe it isn't even about Shepard.  Shepard is unique as people go, but at the same time, he knows he's dying and he's been alone for years.  Maybe he just wants one last epic romance before he dies--to the point where maybe he's even hoping Shepard will fall for him out of sympathy.  I guess he might be awesome if I tried romancing him--lots of female players seem to adore him.  It's just that he seems overly sappy--and when I say this, I say this from the standpoint of someone who adored Alistair in Dragon Age.   And again, I don't like the idea that he's likely to die in ME3, if he makes it that long.  Oh sure, it leaves you free to chase Kaidan and any new romances, but poor Shepard would need recovery time first, I would think.  His appearance disturbs me even worse than Garrus's, though that could be because I've gotten used to Garrus.  Thane reminds me of a cobra, appearance-wise.

Maybe part of my aversion to Thane is because I've already spoiled myself with seeing that last scene of Garrus's romance.  It's hard to top how adorable that is--despite the leadup being anything but (well, okay, it is kind of cute that Garrus keeps trying to let Shepard know that it's not just because he wants to relieve stress with her, and that he's extremely awkward with her--but the intentions at that point are not 100% clear on either side).  Bear in mind that I think Garrus is quite ugly even before getting scarred (well artistically he's very interesting and maybe even pretty but not... in a human attractiveness standpoint, to me), so it says a lot that I still adore his romance.

I never thought Kaidan's romance was all that great, either, even though he's a good-looking guy for a video game character.  He was too hesitant, and he rambled and lectured a lot.  Then in ME2 he made me like him even less with his outburst at Horizon.  It's not that I blame him for his anger from a characterization standpoing, but he showed no trust in Shepard at all, and you can't have a relationship without trust.  Again, what was she supposed to do, reach out to him through a haunting or a seance?  She was dead.  Maybe he doesn't believe her on that, but he also believes she went to Cerberus willingly.  Also, I don't like his voice.  You guys are totally right about Garrus having an awesome voice--switch his and Kaidan's and the rest of Kaidan's personality might have been more tolerable.

I don't really adore Thane, (I've ah...I've never actually managed a playthrough romancing him, I just watched the videos on youtube.  It's not my fault! Garrus's is just too good!)  I just like him as a non-LI and I can see where his fangirls are coming from. (There was one moment where he really caught me off-guard in my first playthrough:  His line about "The taste of another's tongue in your mouth".  He had me blushing in a good way, but that was the last time he ever had me.)  

But you might want to give Thane's romance a try, just to see if it changes your mind or at least gives you a new perspective.  I personally  think the last scene is muuuuch better than the rest of the romance for him; I liked it quite a bit (although it still can't even hold a candle to Garrus's sweet awkward genuine awesomeness.)  

I do see where you're coming from with the overly-sappy feeling though: part of the reason Thane's romance doesn't compete with Garrus's for me is the ANGST-ANGST-ANGST that poor Thane has to go through.  Dying, yes, that sucks, Oh, your wife's dead, that su-OH, your kid hates you, THAT SUCKS.  Man, galaxy: give the guy a break.  All those issues aren't appealing to me in a romantic way.  Shepard has enough baggage of her own to deal with.

Garrus on the other hand doesn't really dump any of his problems on Shepard except for his revenge-thing, which is interesting because, ISSUES:  You know he has them.  His dad disapproves of his life, His mentor died and then came back to life, his squad got killed and he blames himself...and yet he doesn't go on and on and on about it.  Not saying that Thane doesn't have a right to talk about the things that bother him in pretty much every conversation, I just like that Garrus doesn't. Personal taste.

(Definitely agree that Kaidan's romance was too hesitant, :sick:blech, but I still think his reaction on horizon is absolutely forgivable.  From his standpoint, how can you trust someone that's been rebuilt by Cerberus?  You have no way of knowing if it's actually Shepard or not, technically. Miranda could've had her way and put a mind-controlling-zombie chip in her brain that forces her to work with Cerberus.)