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[Xsause]

Timerider42 wrote...

Nihlus got killed off too fast. We need another Project Lazarus.

MIRANDA: The Spectre Nihlus Kryik has been recovered...

*NIHLUS wakes up from death and meets an also-revived Commander SHEPARD, who offers to accompany him to fight their way through the mech-infested station together. NIHLUS readies his shotgun and shakes his head.*

NIHLUS: I move faster on my own.

*NIHLUS walks out of the room and gets killed by a LOKI mech.*

SHEPARD: That...that was bad.

Modifié par Xsause, 09 avril 2010 - 11:59 .

[silentstephi]

I might be whacking a bees nest with a 4x4 here, but I'm curious. (Ha)

Ok, for the most part, Moonboots has it solid with the whole loyalty mission explanations (that he ultimately chooses, not Shepard, and the Garrus from that choice on differs but is THE Garrus of that playthrough/verse/whathaveyou.) I'll find the quote millions of pages back in a bit.



But for the most part, I know that my Shepard's attraction to Garrus's character is the whole 'we're friends because we think so much alike and it's awesome, man we kick ass' type... stuff.

But... I've seen it mentioned... do you guys really think that the whole Sidonus situation has 'broken' him?

I mean... I don't. I don't think Garrus is broken in the game, ever. I don't think he needs guidance or fixing or whatnot. Information, sure, which is why I always paragon the info out of Sidonus but let Garrus take the shot, once he's got all the facts.



I dunno. This could be over thinking things, but I hate the whole idea of 'X is broken only you can fix him' and that being the attraction to his character (it's sooooo not in my Shep's case.) Relationships like that aren't destined to last and I'd like the think that as two individuals that can see each other as equals, Garrus and Shep's 'ship can endure.



There is no tl;dr (god I hate that term.)

Also



I love when Garrus defends his involvement with the mission. XD

[janeym27]

Umanix wrote...

Still, shooting Harkin to slow him down seemed excessive--for my Paragon Shepard, anyway. Paragade Shepard and Renegade Shepard are a-ok with it. 

Yeah.. but the headbutt probably wasn't much better. lol Traumatic head injury verses bullet wound to leg - which is better in the future?

[Kim Shepard]

Saren shouting action movie lines? xD He'd fit right in with Shepard #7. Actually, because I like to imagine he has a history with Shepard #7... that works pretty well.

Saren: *watches old human action movies* I need to know what this guy is talking about.



@Mrs Vakarian: I did the same thing. xD I haven't read the rest of the book yet either (well, I didn't buy it that long ago).



Shepard: ...I support Project Lazarus for Saren in ME3! >.>; *begs the Illusive Man* Nihlus would be cool too. I miss them both. I support an all-turian squad plus Shepard in ME3!

[Xsause]

Kim Shepard wrote...


Shepard: ...I support Project Lazarus for Saren in ME3! >.>; *begs the Illusive Man* Nihlus would be cool too. I miss them both. I support an all-turian squad plus Shepard in ME3!

I just want Etarn Tiron on my team. He'd kill the Reapers with epic sales pitches!

[Ray Joel Oh]

silentstephi wrote...

I might be whacking a bees nest with
a 4x4 here, but I'm curious. (Ha)

I think being there for a friend means stopping them from being self-destructive. Rolling over and letting them do what they want because they really really want it is not healthy. I can respect an alcoholic but I can refuse to give them a drink. Garrus has vindictiveness issues he needs to work through. I'd expect him to put his foot down for Shepard, too.

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 10 avril 2010 - 12:12 .

[janeym27]

silentstephi wrote...

I might be whacking a bees nest with a 4x4 here, but I'm curious. (Ha)
Ok, for the most part, Moonboots has it solid with the whole loyalty mission explanations (that he ultimately chooses, not Shepard, and the Garrus from that choice on differs but is THE Garrus of that playthrough/verse/whathaveyou.) I'll find the quote millions of pages back in a bit.

But for the most part, I know that my Shepard's attraction to Garrus's character is the whole 'we're friends because we think so much alike and it's awesome, man we kick ass' type... stuff.
But... I've seen it mentioned... do you guys really think that the whole Sidonus situation has 'broken' him?
I mean... I don't. I don't think Garrus is broken in the game, ever. I don't think he needs guidance or fixing or whatnot. Information, sure, which is why I always paragon the info out of Sidonus but let Garrus take the shot, once he's got all the facts.

I dunno. This could be over thinking things, but I hate the whole idea of 'X is broken only you can fix him' and that being the attraction to his character (it's sooooo not in my Shep's case.) Relationships like that aren't destined to last and I'd like the think that as two individuals that can see each other as equals, Garrus and Shep's 'ship can endure.

There is no tl;dr (god I hate that term.)
Also

I love when Garrus defends his involvement with the mission. XD

I agree with you, Stephi. But the game experience is subjective, so we all read it in our own way, to a certain extent. I guess that's why we all have these character discussions.

I think Garrus hs a few personal issues, but then, who doesn't? lol. I don't think he's 'broken' though, just a bit disillusioned and lacking confidence, which is why he looks to Shep for reassurence. The whole 'he's broken and I can fix him' dynamic does not a healthy relationship make, nor (for me) an appealing one. I think there is an element of mutual trust between Shepard and Garrus, and this is why their relationship (be it romantic, bromantic, or friendship) works.

Also, I love that pic.

[kglaser]

Kim Shepard wrote...
 "I guess they deserved it." after accidentally driving over some of the wildlife.

:lol:Haha, that wacky Wrex

I brought Garrus and Kaidan with me to Eletania (the place with the monkeys, pyjacks, whatever) running around and we're looking for something one of them stole.  I shot one just for fun and Garrus said something like, "Little bastard had it coming."

Kaidan said something like, "Remind me never to get on your bad side, Commander."  LOL
I also got a few Renegade points, hehe

[Ray Joel Oh]

It's not about being ~broken~ or needing ~fixing,~ it's about having standards. And if he goes down a dark enough path, that's a good enough reason for the relationship to not work out.

[silentstephi]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

It's not about being ~broken~ or needing ~fixing,~ it's about having standards. And if he goes down a dark enough path, that's a good enough reason for the relationship to not work out.

True... if you see it as the "dark" path. /shrug
My Shep shot the scientist.  I'd be the ultimate hypocrat to turn around and tell Garrus, "No."

But I'm at least glad to see it's not an issue of "Oh poor him, need to fix him" type thing. 

[kglaser]

janeym27 wrote...

"Anyone down for some full contact sparring?

:blink:

Modifié par kglaser, 10 avril 2010 - 12:18 .

[Ray Joel Oh]

Like I've said, I don't see him becoming a Saren, but he could become a Zaeed. And Zaeed is an @sshole.

[Goodwood]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

silentstephi wrote...

I might be whacking a bees nest with
a 4x4 here, but I'm curious. (Ha)

I think being there for a friend means stopping them from being self-destructive. Rolling over and letting them do what they want because they really really want it is not healthy. I can respect an alcoholic but I can refuse to give them a drink. Garrus has vindictiveness issues he needs to work through. I'd expect him to put his foot down for Shepard, too.

x2.

A big part of being a true friend (or more, as the case may be) isn't so much about hanging out and sharing experiences, it's being able to trust your friend to not let you do something stupid, such as driving while intoxicated, committing to a half-baked plan, or succumbing to urges that are counterproductive to continued psychological health and welfare. Even in the course of ME1, we can see that Garrus has trouble letting go of situations that have gone beyond his control; his obsession with catching Dr. Saleon was partially understandable, and good friend Shepard would rightly prevent him from executing the salarian in cold blood. Sidonus was Dr. Saleon II, made even more agonizing in that he had been a trusted comrade of Garrus before the gangs got to him. Shepard, by forcing Garrus to think things through, enables him to realize that it isn't in his nature to dispense cold, summary "justice" in this regard (justice =/= revenge),

At least, for Paragon/Paragade Shepards. Renegades...well, congratulations; you just let a good friend and ally betray himself and commit cold-blooded murder in the very heart of the Citadel.

[kglaser]

Mrs Vakarian wrote...

I still have to read Revelation.. Although I've already skimmed through to read all the parts with Saren because humans bore me to death XD

However I've always been fascinated with Saren... Still don't forgive him for killing Nihlus though But he's a very dynamic character to say the least.

"I have two rules I follow, The first is: never kill someone without a reason.... You can always find a reason to kill someone." -Saren

The best!
Or how about that part where Anderson asks him in horror how he could kill innocent men women and children like that and Saren says, "Practice...lots of practice." ::SWOON from pure evil::

[silentstephi]

Goodwood wrote...

At least, for Paragon/Paragade Shepards. Renegades...well, congratulations; you just let a good friend and ally betray himself and commit cold-blooded murder in the very heart of the Citadel.

I was with you until that last bit.
No.  You gave a friend closure.   Nothing about killing Sidonus is 'cold blooded'.  Renegade Sheps expect the same damn treatment from him when the role is reversed.

[Xsause]

I'm more of the "come on, this isn't you" kind of person when it comes to stuff like that. So I always talk him out of it.

Modifié par Xsause, 10 avril 2010 - 12:37 .

[Ray Joel Oh]

silentstephi wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

At least, for Paragon/Paragade Shepards. Renegades...well, congratulations; you just let a good friend and ally betray himself and commit cold-blooded murder in the very heart of the Citadel.

I was with you until that last bit.
No.  You gave a friend closure.   Nothing about killing Sidonus is 'cold blooded'.  Renegade Sheps expect the same damn treatment from him when the role is reversed.

Killing an unarmed civilian in a public place from across the room is pretty cold.  Rogue snipers aren't admirable.  And for somebody who once cared about safety on the Citadel, that's a pretty terrifying crime.

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 10 avril 2010 - 12:33 .

[janeym27]

silentstephi wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

At least, for Paragon/Paragade Shepards. Renegades...well, congratulations; you just let a good friend and ally betray himself and commit cold-blooded murder in the very heart of the Citadel.

I was with you until that last bit.
No.  You gave a friend closure.   Nothing about killing Sidonus is 'cold blooded'.  Renegade Sheps expect the same damn treatment from him when the role is reversed.

Agreed. You don't force him to kill Sidonus, you simply trust him to know what is best for himself. And if you let Sidonus talk before Garrus takes the shot, there is a sense that both Sidonus and Garrus are getting closure. The post-kill dialogue with Garrus in that circumstance is the one which I feel Garrus is the least conflicted (but again. that's my interpratation). My Shepard has killed plenty of folk for revenge reasons (which isn't the same as cold blood, I would argue. But then my renegade Shep does that too...) And Garrus isn't doing it purely for revenege either - he's also doing it to get justice for his lost men. Now whether or not you agree that that is justice, again, is a personal thing, but for Garrus (and some Shepards) it is the best he can do for his dead squad.

I awlays find it amusing that the game lets you agonise over to kill or not to kill choices of people who we know have done very bad things, but as soon as they put a merc uniform on (and as NPC conversations on Illium and the Citadel show, there are lots of reasons for doing so: the Asari seem to have a choice between that or stripping in their maiden years. lol) it's fair game to blast their pretty little heads off. (I know they are shooting at you, but still - the killing is relentless!)

[kglaser]

Heh, I jumped the gun during that mission when I decided to let Garrus shoot him. I picked the very first opportunity to tell Sidonis that he was a dead man, then...he was. I didn't realize I should pick more dialogue before letting Garrus fire, but that's what I now wish I had tried. Well, time for a reload!

[Ray Joel Oh]

janeym27 wrote...
Agreed. You don't force him to kill Sidonus,
you simply trust him to know what is best for himself. And if you let
Sidonus talk before Garrus takes the shot, there is a sense that both
Sidonus and Garrus are getting closure. The post-kill dialogue with
Garrus in that circumstance is the one which I feel Garrus is the least
conflicted (but again. that's my interpratation). My Shepard has killed
plenty of folk for revenge reasons (which isn't the same as cold blood, I
would argue. But then my renegade Shep does that too...) And Garrus
isn't doing it purely for revenege either - he's also doing it to get
justice for his lost men. Now whether or not you agree that that is
justice, again, is a personal thing, but for Garrus (and some Shepards)
it is the best he can do for his dead squad.

I awlays find it
amusing that the game lets you agonise over to kill or not to kill
choices of people who we know have done very bad things, but as soon as
they put a merc uniform on (and as NPC conversations on Illium and the
Citadel show, there are lots of reasons for doing so: the Asari seem to
have a choice between that or stripping in their maiden years. lol) it's
fair game to blast their pretty little heads off. (I know they are
shooting at you, but still - the killing is relentless!)

You don't force him not to kill Sidonis, either.  He's got a gun and Shepard can't stand there forever.  And the squad is dead--nothing is changed for them if Sidonis dies.  All that's left is a bad situation with a pathetic former comrade and Garrus's choice.  Does he find strength in killing, or does he find strength in himself?

And there is a difference between killing people who are shooting at you and killing people who are unarmed, both legally and morally.  I'm sure you know that but I don't like the frequent implication on the forum that moral quandries are hypocritical for soldiers or law enforcement.

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 10 avril 2010 - 01:02 .

[kglaser]

I also caught myself wondering what happens if you don't let him shoot Saleon in the first game, then don't let him shoot Sidonis in the second...then such a chance comes up in the third game and you say no again, will he completely lose his temper and point the gun at you or something?

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

^^



That is my exact reasoning for not killing sidonis.

[kglaser]

Ooh you have a plan

Things like that make it even harder to wait for the next game, tho'.