27956 réponses à ce sujet

[kglaser]

But I wonder if the staff of BioWare who contributed to his character were projecting their mores and such onto him, even unconsciously? Eh, I think I'm starting to overanalyze way too much.

[Collider]

Enormous, there is no point to making the characters bisexual yet not excluding them only to the opposite sex. No point whatsoever. The canon is that there is no homosexual romance with either of them.

[Onyx Jaguar]

It seems like Tali, Jack and Thane were cut bisexual romances. Whether or not their sexuality is canonized by developers is up for debate.

[Collider]

kglaser wrote...

Doesn't Garrus also say something to MaleShep when he walks in after his surgery, something about "I was always getting hit on, now you have a chance"? I'm two playthroughs away from a ManShep but I love the idea of that line

Yea he does. If you choose the top option when Garrus asks how he looks, Shepard says "...but you always looked ugly Garrus." And Garrus turns it around

[grant37]

hey if anyone wants the terminus and blood armor i got a few codes for them all i ask for is a collector armor code

[Collider]

@Onyx, Bioware isn't afraid of having same sex content. Some of the romances were considered as bisexual at one point, but so was Jack's hair being pink.

[kglaser]

Yeah, I was really surprised when my FemShep was talking to Tali and she started going on about sharing suit environments...I was like WTH? o_O 'Cause then she just got all cute and flustered and never brought it up again. LOL

Eh, I wanted Garrus anyway, see if I care.

[Collider]

The only problem I have with BI Garrus is that they would be retconning his character. He didn't show interest in males before - but showed interest in females. I have nothing against bisexuals or homosexuals, but these characters need to be left as is in terms of their sexual preference.

Modifié par Collider, 30 avril 2010 - 03:05 .

[enormousmoonboots]

Collider wrote...

Enormous, there is no point to making the characters bisexual yet not excluding them only to the opposite sex. No point whatsoever. The canon is that there is no homosexual romance with either of them.

Well, duh. I did play the game. We're talking about fanfiction, though. Just saying that's how I justify it. You can't just say 'that's not canon, so it's wrong' when it comes to fic. People have Shepard cry in their stories--Shep never cries in the game, so clearly they're writing it wrong. Tali gossips? Tali never gossips in the game, they're totally wrong! Zaeed get emotional? All we ever see in the game is a scarred-up ball of hate, so that means that's all he can ever be, and if you write Zaeed as anything other than that, you must be wrong.

Fanfiction is 100% extrapolation. If you can build a logical basis for your character development, you can go pretty much anywhere.

e:

Collider wrote...

The only problem I have with BI Garrus
is that they would be retconning his character. He didn't show interest
in males before - but showed interest in females. I have nothing against
bisexuals or homosexuals, but these characters need to be left as is in
terms of their sexual preference.

Then you must have a huge problem with romancing Tali, because the quarian immune system was retconned from the first game. In ME1, Tali leaves you with the impression that if you so much as sneeze within fifty feet of a quarian, they're dead. ME2 retcons it to 'allergic reactions' to let you have a relationship without killing her. The series has already been retconning itself--Zaeed's entire backstory is a big fat stinking retcon, so you must take issue with him, right?

Modifié par enormousmoonboots, 30 avril 2010 - 03:10 .

[Collider]

I agree enormous, you can go anywhere with fanfiction. I was just saying that I disliked reading fanfiction like went against canon like that. Not saying no one should be allowed to write them, by all means, everyone should be able to write whatever they want.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Well kglaser, google images is like garrus. It always got your back.

[Nivenus]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Collider wrote...

Enormous, there is no point to making the characters bisexual yet not excluding them only to the opposite sex. No point whatsoever. The canon is that there is no homosexual romance with either of them.

Well, duh. I did play the game. We're talking about fanfiction, though. Just saying that's how I justify it. You can't just say 'that's not canon, so it's wrong' when it comes to fic. People have Shepard cry in their stories--Shep never cries in the game, so clearly they're writing it wrong. Tali gossips? Tali never gossips in the game, they're totally wrong! Zaeed get emotional? All we ever see in the game is a scarred-up ball of hate, so that means that's all he can ever be, and if you write Zaeed as anything other than that, you must be wrong.

Fanfiction is 100% extrapolation. If you can build a logical basis for your character development, you can go pretty much anywhere.

There's a difference though between what you mention and what Collider's pointing out. If Garrus/Tali were bisexual there is absolutely no reason for them not to approach Shepard or vice versa in ME2, because m!Shepard and f!Shepard are nearly entirely identical aside from their anatomy and pronouns. The other stuff could easily happen off-screen. But Tali and Garrus being bisexual offscreen doesn't make much sense given Shepard's inability to approach either.

That said, I have no issue with such fan fiction. If people want to ship their Shepard with Joker/Shiala/whomever or in a non-existent homosexual relationship that's their choice. I'm just saying that such things are on a considerably more shaky canonical ground than say, Shepard crying off-screen or Tali gossiping (which, incidentally - she does - at least according to Kasumi).

[Collider]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

kglaser wrote...

Doesn't Garrus also say something to MaleShep when he walks in after his surgery, something about "I was always getting hit on, now you have a chance"? I'm two playthroughs away from a ManShep but I love the idea of that line

Yep, he does.  It's funny how the same content looks bromancy with maleshep and flirty for femshep.  I also think that that line is Bioware poking fun at the Garrusophiles in the fandom.  I chuckled.

Was it? Did they have some kind of reach and flexibility thing in the Garrus thread? Anyways, yea. Bromance with Garrus ftw. It's awesome that he talks about old times and kicking Saren's ass.

[WarlordFil]

Hm.

The way I see it, if there isn't any discussion about who a character is attracted to in canon, then they're fair game to be interpreted as straight, gay, or bi as a viewer chooses.

I don't like it when fic writers...or hell, even professional writers...break up canon relationships to "make the character gay/straight" when they showed no inclination of swinging that way previously.  EDIT:  Just my taste, of course, and I sometimes do read (and enjoy) crackfics or silly pairings for the lulz, even if I can't take the new canon seriously.

Mass Effect is kind of odd, because what is "canon" is so much more open ended in a game where we get to choose the main character's gender and morality. Still, I can't get past the notion that Tali and Garrus and Thane are straight, simply because when I've seen them show interest in game, it's been in the opposite gender only; similarly I have no trouble accepting Liara or Kelly as bisexual.

Now, I will point out that if someone were able to write a fic where drell culture basically had "bisexual" as the default setting, and built up a reason for it, I could buy Thane as bi.

This is, of course, my own preference entirely and if someone else wants to personally imagine that Garrus is gay, I don't have any problem with that--particularly if they had that idea all the way from the first game where we really DIDN'T know anything about what gender(s) Garrus liked. (I bloody well am not retconning all my Halo fics if Halo: Reach shows Shipmaster Rtas happily married to a woman.)

Modifié par WarlordFil, 30 avril 2010 - 03:16 .

[Collider]

kglaser wrote...

While playing the suicide mission last night, I had sent Garrus off on the fire team (I think it's called) and every so often he would chime in over my headset and yell something like "Nice shot!" or "Perfect!" While I was happy to hear that things were going well, I was jealous that he was having so much fun while I was trudging through a bubble with Samara and Jacob and I had to listen to stuff like "Get over here!" LOL

For some reason, Garrus' voice sounds deeper sometimes when he says his battle quotes. Or maybe I'm imagining things.

[kglaser]

My personal opinion on it is, if you want to make a game character bisexual, make that apparent fairly early on (like what Kelly says about species and gender not being important). I feel that putting in too many options can water down a character--and I'm talking about anyone, not just Garrus. I'm not trying to offend anyone with this opinion and I hope I didn't.

[enormousmoonboots]

kglaser wrote...

My personal opinion on it is, if you want to make a game character bisexual, make that apparent fairly early on (like what Kelly says about species and gender not being important). I feel that putting in too many options can water down a character--and I'm talking about anyone, not just Garrus. I'm not trying to offend anyone with this opinion and I hope I didn't.

Double-dog dare you to go over to the Dragon Age forums and post that.

Honestly, I can never understand this opinion. I've tried, and I just can't wrap my head around it. How could more options make things boring? Aren't people always crying for more options, more ways to do things?

[Onyx Jaguar]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

kglaser wrote...

My personal opinion on it is, if you want to make a game character bisexual, make that apparent fairly early on (like what Kelly says about species and gender not being important). I feel that putting in too many options can water down a character--and I'm talking about anyone, not just Garrus. I'm not trying to offend anyone with this opinion and I hope I didn't.

Double-dog dare you to go over to the Dragon Age forums and post that.

Honestly, I can never understand this opinion. I've tried, and I just can't wrap my head around it. How could more options make things boring? Aren't people always crying for more options, more ways to do things?

If you put the same amount of content into a straight character that you put into a bisexual character, there will be more content in the straight character's presentation I think is what they are saying.

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 30 avril 2010 - 03:39 .

[Mariquis]

kglaser wrote...

My personal opinion on it is, if you want to make a game character bisexual, make that apparent fairly early on (like what Kelly says about species and gender not being important). I feel that putting in too many options can water down a character--and I'm talking about anyone, not just Garrus. I'm not trying to offend anyone with this opinion and I hope I didn't.

Yeah I kind of agree with this.  I wouldn't have cared if some or all of the LIs were portrayed as bisexual in this game, but they weren't.  If they suddenly decided to change that in ME3 it's like .. wait what?   Although, I'm pretty sure the Tali dialogue for Fshep romance was dug out of the files, which makes me a little sad ) : I would have liked a Tali/Fshep romance.  I think my only real gripe with the whole situation is the "Shepard isn't bisexual" thing put forward by Bioware, because really, I don't care if Liara belongs to a species that only has one gender and so 'technically' isn't female, by human standards she is definitely 100% female so I would think that would indicate that Shepard has the potential to be bisexual or a lesbian (depending on the player, obviously).

Despite that, I'm so hoping that we have some major bromance with Garrus in the next game, I would also adore some Tali/Garrus brotherly and sisterly interaction  They just give me that vibe.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Garrus is not the type of guy to go gay, i'm sorry people it just won't happen.