Not really, was really POed when he died. I was even more pissed off when the council blamed me for his death.kglaser wrote...
Actually, I found Carth's romance in KOTOR incredibly sweet and natural, better even than most of the ones from the ME games. I actually blushed in real life when he started calling me "beautiful".
On a totally unrelated note (but just because I'm replaying ME1), I am bummed out that Nihlus died so fast. :*( He seems like an intriguing, intelligent guy. Are there any comics or anything about his backstory?
Garrus Love and Adoration v.2
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#16226
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:12
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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#16227
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:16
kglaser
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He wasn't in that game nearly long enough (although I certainly understand why the plot demanded it). And the Council...ugh, not looking forward to running into them in ME1 (but sorta looking forward to hanging up on them!!)
Also, Garrus:
Also, Garrus:
#16228
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:17
irene9876
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Tootles FTW wrote...
irene9876 wrote...
Hi.
I know I've never posted here before, but I am a frequent lurker.
Garrus is my favorite character in the ME universe, but not exactly my favorite LI because I do think FemShep comes on too strong...as she does (IMO) with all the ME2 LIs.
The way I see it, since ME is supposed to be an RPG, I should be able to inject a bit of myself into the characters I create. And for starters, I don't make and play female characters just to run around being Mrs. MAN. Just because this game revolves around Shepherd doesn't mean that the male and female variants must be the same. (Specifically in relation to personality).
Now this is probably not the case with you, but I do have a personal bias (as I'm sure many people do) that a woman who flirts as forwardly as a man does is "loose" or a ****. So, personally, I find it repulsing when FemShep starts hitting on (or from my perspective, throwing herself at) all the male LIs. I feel my FemSheps should have more dignity. It doesn't help that in ME2 the romance plots go from "hi" to "lets have SEX!!!" so quickly, either.
I actually prefer the female romance plots that Bioware writes where the male LI shows an interest first. It doesn't have to be blatant, necessarily, either. It could be subtle hints, as was the case with Kaidan. Or it could be playful teasing, like Carth's romance in KOTOR (my favorite Bioware LI btw...especially when he says he's going to take me over his knee and "teach [me] a lesson").
Now, I do agree that it would be OOC for any of the LIs in ME2 to come straight up to FemShep and say "I like you. Let's date!" But that doesn't mean the only solution, then, is for FemShep to come straight up to the male LIs and say "I like you. Let's DO IT!" IMO, the ME2 romances could have been done better. As it stands, I rarely pursue the LI subplots in this game.
I hope that answers your question a little.
I love it in games when your character's Fem-status is acknowledged (I even enjoyed Harkin's disgusting come-on's in ME1), but at the same time I don't like stapling GENDER STEREOTYPE to my character's forehead. I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here, but flirting is not a male's prerogative. I'm a girl and I'm very forward when I'm interested; I'm quite comfortable with myself and I hardly consider my approach as $lutty. Would I use "reach & flexibility" as my opening line? Er...maybe not, but it was still a good line and had me laughing. I just wish it didn't come at the very start of Garrus's romance dialogue, and was kept to the second or third conversation.
But not everyone feels the way you do. Which is why there are people who post comments about FemShep being too forward in the LI subplots. And although you may enjoy being the pursuer in a relationship, there are others (myself included) who would rather be pursued. For me to suddenly turn around and start hitting on guys would make me very uncomfortable. It is not my personality to do so, and to go against who I am would make me feel a tad "dirty".
As it is, ME2 writes FemShep as the pursuer in the relationships. Because of this, I rarely travel the LI path.
#16229
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:19
Kim Shepard
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He just doesn't seem like my Shepard's type. xD Then again, Saren is totally her type, so... different tastes.
I've read that one of Samara's conversations talks about Nihlus a little, but I haven't seen it in-game. That's probably because Samara was the last squadmate I recruited besides Legion, so she wasn't on the Normandy very long, and my Shepard didn't talk to her much. By the way, I'll probably start my NG+ soon (and I'll definitely pay attention to Nihlus' teeth, since you pointed that out).
...And I just realized, this Shepard with his lack of political skill gets to hang up on the Council! >
My last Shepard didn't get to do that, since she was taught enough about politics to know self-control and how to make yourself not look too bad.
I've read that one of Samara's conversations talks about Nihlus a little, but I haven't seen it in-game. That's probably because Samara was the last squadmate I recruited besides Legion, so she wasn't on the Normandy very long, and my Shepard didn't talk to her much. By the way, I'll probably start my NG+ soon (and I'll definitely pay attention to Nihlus' teeth, since you pointed that out).
...And I just realized, this Shepard with his lack of political skill gets to hang up on the Council! >
My last Shepard didn't get to do that, since she was taught enough about politics to know self-control and how to make yourself not look too bad.
#16230
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:19
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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kglaser wrote...
He wasn't in that game nearly long enough (although I certainly understand why the plot demanded it). And the Council...ugh, not looking forward to running into them in ME1 (but sorta looking forward to hanging up on them!!)
Also, Garrus:
Thats not garrus! imposter!
Modifié par Mr.BlazenGlazen, 03 mai 2010 - 05:20 .
#16231
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:20
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My thoughts on flirty femshep:
If you notice, both sets of LIs (those for dudeshep and those for femshep) are divided into several categories. Some of them come on to you directly and some you have to approach yourself. Tali for instance is very blatant. As soon as you recruit her Kelly is all like "I think she wants to me more than friends." It's quite overt. On the femshep side, Thane is the only one who is somewhat forward. The other two you have to approach openly (and in Jacob's case you have to dig...not that it's worth it.)
I think Bioware was so cautious with the femshep LIs for several reasons. For one, they got a lot of complaints about how hard it was to keep Liara and Kaidan off you in ME1. Your options were A) don't talk to them at all or
be an ass and tell them to sod off. I think this was complicated by the fact that both Liara and Kaidan are pretty dull LIs compared to some others that they have produced in the past. Most women I have spoken to didn't mind Carth being blatant because they liked him and found him interesting. (Most I say. Obviously not all.) And as for Kaidan's recent popularity, I think that has more to do with how horrid Jacob is and the fact that some people just don't like alien LIs than it has to do with Kaidan's character. This level of Kaidan love simply did not exist a few months ago. The general reaction following ME1 was "Kaidan is pretty boring" and I certainly think he is compared to most other LIs.
Another reason I think they made femshep take charge is because they were hesitant about the femshep alien LIs, especially Garrus. I think they had in the back of their head that most people weren't interested in him and that female players as a whole would be extremely weirded out if he came onto them in any capacity so they just decided to leave all the initiative up to the player. I also think they did have some character considerations as well (trying to explain why he would suddenly express interest when he didn't show any at all in the first game.) However, that second excuse doesn't hold too much water when you look at how they handled Tali. Maybe it's just me, but I often think that femshep alien LIs get an "ew! that's gross" reaction from the general fandom (guys in other words) much more so than do the alien LIs for dudeshep. I think it's led to an imbalance in how the alien LIs get presented. Tali and Liara show overt interest (even though they are both inexperienced, young, and somewhat shy) while Garrus and Thane (older, experienced, and reasonably confident) either show no interest at all or are very subtle about it. Bioware got it exactly backward. I think they were banking on popularity order to go like this: Jacob, Thane, Garrus. Instead it went: Garrus, Thane, Jacob.
Anyway, I think the ideal way to handle a femshep LI is like they did with Thane. Even though Garrus is my favorite romance, I think Thane's is the best constructed in the whole game. It's possible for Shepard to take charge very early on if she wants to ("Just friends?" to which Thane says "That is interesting.") She can do that before his loyalty mission in fact. However, if you are like me, somewhat old-fashioned and like for the guy to make the first move, you can wait and if you keep talking to him he will eventually approach you openly. I like this level of nuance. It was the only romance option that kind of followed the DAO model, and I still say the DAO model is the best Bioware has yet produced. The level of nuance there, particularly in the Alistair romance is just astounding.
If you notice, both sets of LIs (those for dudeshep and those for femshep) are divided into several categories. Some of them come on to you directly and some you have to approach yourself. Tali for instance is very blatant. As soon as you recruit her Kelly is all like "I think she wants to me more than friends." It's quite overt. On the femshep side, Thane is the only one who is somewhat forward. The other two you have to approach openly (and in Jacob's case you have to dig...not that it's worth it.)
I think Bioware was so cautious with the femshep LIs for several reasons. For one, they got a lot of complaints about how hard it was to keep Liara and Kaidan off you in ME1. Your options were A) don't talk to them at all or
be an ass and tell them to sod off. I think this was complicated by the fact that both Liara and Kaidan are pretty dull LIs compared to some others that they have produced in the past. Most women I have spoken to didn't mind Carth being blatant because they liked him and found him interesting. (Most I say. Obviously not all.) And as for Kaidan's recent popularity, I think that has more to do with how horrid Jacob is and the fact that some people just don't like alien LIs than it has to do with Kaidan's character. This level of Kaidan love simply did not exist a few months ago. The general reaction following ME1 was "Kaidan is pretty boring" and I certainly think he is compared to most other LIs.Another reason I think they made femshep take charge is because they were hesitant about the femshep alien LIs, especially Garrus. I think they had in the back of their head that most people weren't interested in him and that female players as a whole would be extremely weirded out if he came onto them in any capacity so they just decided to leave all the initiative up to the player. I also think they did have some character considerations as well (trying to explain why he would suddenly express interest when he didn't show any at all in the first game.) However, that second excuse doesn't hold too much water when you look at how they handled Tali. Maybe it's just me, but I often think that femshep alien LIs get an "ew! that's gross" reaction from the general fandom (guys in other words) much more so than do the alien LIs for dudeshep. I think it's led to an imbalance in how the alien LIs get presented. Tali and Liara show overt interest (even though they are both inexperienced, young, and somewhat shy) while Garrus and Thane (older, experienced, and reasonably confident) either show no interest at all or are very subtle about it. Bioware got it exactly backward. I think they were banking on popularity order to go like this: Jacob, Thane, Garrus. Instead it went: Garrus, Thane, Jacob.
Anyway, I think the ideal way to handle a femshep LI is like they did with Thane. Even though Garrus is my favorite romance, I think Thane's is the best constructed in the whole game. It's possible for Shepard to take charge very early on if she wants to ("Just friends?" to which Thane says "That is interesting.") She can do that before his loyalty mission in fact. However, if you are like me, somewhat old-fashioned and like for the guy to make the first move, you can wait and if you keep talking to him he will eventually approach you openly. I like this level of nuance. It was the only romance option that kind of followed the DAO model, and I still say the DAO model is the best Bioware has yet produced. The level of nuance there, particularly in the Alistair romance is just astounding.
#16232
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:21
Collider
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The balance may be where there are choices as follows:
1) I'm interested in being more than friends.
2) I'm glad we're friends.
3) Just focus on the mission.
When you choose 1), femShep doesn't say really say anything flirty or too forward, but instead what she says leads into the male LI flirting, pursuing her, or hinting towards attraction.
2) is just friendship stuff and 3) of course is more "we don't have time for chatting, we have a mission to prepare for."
This way you can "choose" whether you want the romance but at the same time it's the male LI who does the pursuing initially.
1) I'm interested in being more than friends.
2) I'm glad we're friends.
3) Just focus on the mission.
When you choose 1), femShep doesn't say really say anything flirty or too forward, but instead what she says leads into the male LI flirting, pursuing her, or hinting towards attraction.
2) is just friendship stuff and 3) of course is more "we don't have time for chatting, we have a mission to prepare for."
This way you can "choose" whether you want the romance but at the same time it's the male LI who does the pursuing initially.
#16233
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:22
kglaser
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irene9876 wrote...
although you may enjoy being the pursuer in a relationship, there are others (myself included) who would rather be pursued. For me to suddenly turn around and start hitting on guys would make me very uncomfortable. It is not my personality to do so, and to go against who I am would make me feel a tad "dirty".
As it is, ME2 writes FemShep as the pursuer in the relationships. Because of this, I rarely travel the LI path.
For me personally, if I was turned off by FemShep being the pursuer (and the jury's still out on that one, for me), it was because of 1) her tone of voice and the way she said it, then *secondarily* 2) the act of doing the pursuing itself. If she had intoned it in even a subtly different way, it would have come across much differently (again, that's only my opinion; I can't speak for anyone else).
#16234
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:26
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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Wow actually when you put it that way, when you do come onto garrus he is not hesitant to flirt with you, i think i don't need to go into the details about his famous pick up line, and the tone of his voice is a lot different then when you are just having a casual convo with him.Collider wrote...
The balance may be where there are choices as follows:
1) I'm interested in being more than friends.
2) I'm glad we're friends.
3) Just focus on the mission.
When you choose 1), femShep doesn't say really say anything flirty or too forward, but instead what she says leads into the male LI flirting, pursuing her, or hinting towards attraction.
2) is just friendship stuff and 3) of course is more "we don't have time for chatting, we have a mission to prepare for."
This way you can "choose" whether you want the romance but at the same time it's the male LI who does the pursuing initially.
#16235
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:31
Collider
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I am writing romances in the indie game I'm making so this stuff is kind of interesting to me.
#16236
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:35
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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The fanfics are pretty interesting to me too. Though i wonder who and where garrus got his advice from....like who told him to bring wine, and compliment shepardCollider wrote...
I am writing romances in the indie game I'm making so this stuff is kind of interesting to me.
#16237
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:38
Mrs Vakarian
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Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
The fanfics are pretty interesting to me too. Though i wonder who and where garrus got his advice from....like who told him to bring wine, and compliment shepardCollider wrote...
I am writing romances in the indie game I'm making so this stuff is kind of interesting to me.
I'm thinking he went on yahoo answers...
#16238
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:39
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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Here is an interesting twist. What if Dr.Cloe Michel gave him the advice?Mrs Vakarian wrote...
Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
The fanfics are pretty interesting to me too. Though i wonder who and where garrus got his advice from....like who told him to bring wine, and compliment shepardCollider wrote...
I am writing romances in the indie game I'm making so this stuff is kind of interesting to me.
I'm thinking he went on yahoo answers...
#16239
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:41
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Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Wow actually when you put it that way, when you do come onto garrus he is not hesitant to flirt with you, i think i don't need to go into the details about his famous pick up line, and the tone of his voice is a lot different then when you are just having a casual convo with him.Collider wrote...
The balance may be where there are choices as follows:
1) I'm interested in being more than friends.
2) I'm glad we're friends.
3) Just focus on the mission.
When you choose 1), femShep doesn't say really say anything flirty or too forward, but instead what she says leads into the male LI flirting, pursuing her, or hinting towards attraction.
2) is just friendship stuff and 3) of course is more "we don't have time for chatting, we have a mission to prepare for."
This way you can "choose" whether you want the romance but at the same time it's the male LI who does the pursuing initially.
I love how forward his knee-jerk reaction is. He doesn't get hesitant until he starts "thinking about what we talked about." That forwardness alone to me establishes that Bioware could totally have pulled off him showing interest, that he did in fact have such interest even if it was latent and he hadn't examined it.
Another problem with the Garrus romance is of course those pesky calibrations. He has so little to say compared to other characters that all the romance content gets packed into 2 conversations so there is no chance for anything like a subtle progression as you get with Thane.
#16240
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:44
Kim Shepard
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This is exactly why I don't mind (and actually prefer) FemShep being the one who first shows interest. It wasn't too hard for my Shepard to stay out of a relationship with Kaidan, or Ashley on the MaleShep playthrough, just strange how he assumed my Shepard was interested in him and/or Liara when she didn't like either. Liara was the one who needed to get told off. >_>; My FemShep had to be more rude than she would normally be.Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
I think Bioware was so cautious with the femshep LIs for several reasons. For one, they got a lot of complaints about how hard it was to keep Liara and Kaidan off you in ME1. Your options were A) don't talk to them at all or
So far, I think the Dragon Age romances were handled well, or I just might not have had any problems yet. I've read a few things in the DA forum that makes Leliana sound like Liara in the way that she kind of assumes the Warden is interested... Anyway, I like Collider's idea best.
It sounds like a good solution. @Mr.BlazenGlazen: I think Garrus went to Mordin for advice.
Modifié par Kim Shepard, 03 mai 2010 - 05:45 .
#16241
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:45
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Mrs Vakarian wrote...
Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
The fanfics are pretty interesting to me too. Though i wonder who and where garrus got his advice from....like who told him to bring wine, and compliment shepardCollider wrote...
I am writing romances in the indie game I'm making so this stuff is kind of interesting to me.
I'm thinking he went on yahoo answers...
I think most of his "research" was in the biology department and that he went to Mordin about that. ("I'll do some research and figure out how this thing should workd" and "I'll do some research and figure out how to...you know." I don't think he's talking about figuring out to bring flowers or say pick-up lines there.) For the "romance" department I think he thought he'd do as he did with turian women/improvise and that's why he panics during the romance scene. "I KNEW I should have watched the vids." I think he was counting on his familiarity with Shepard to carry him through and he started second guessing himself at the last minute.
#16242
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:46
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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@ragabul
That is one of my main pet peeves with the game, the overall lack of dialouge in general. And for garrus? There was absolutely no excuse to half ass or even less his character dialouge in this game and i hope they fix that.
But seriously think about it. The only other person he could have gone to for advice of human females was dr. cloe michel, he knew her well apparently when he was at C-SEC.
And bringing wine, and complimenting? I don't think mordin would have suggested that.
*Chafing*
That is one of my main pet peeves with the game, the overall lack of dialouge in general. And for garrus? There was absolutely no excuse to half ass or even less his character dialouge in this game and i hope they fix that.
But seriously think about it. The only other person he could have gone to for advice of human females was dr. cloe michel, he knew her well apparently when he was at C-SEC.
And bringing wine, and complimenting? I don't think mordin would have suggested that.
*Chafing*
Modifié par Mr.BlazenGlazen, 03 mai 2010 - 05:48 .
#16243
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:49
Collider
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I tend to think who pursues matters less for male players. Of course, there are limits. Liara came off as way too forward to me, they would have done better to make the romance start on the third conversation. She felt that like she was bred to be the romance interest from the start. With Tali and Garrus you have the wonderful precedence of working with them before and being friends, with Liara not so much.
Anyway, by the time you beat ME2 you've already consummated the romance with Garrus so it's not as if the mechanics of how the romance started in ME2 is going to matter anymore in ME3.
Anyway, by the time you beat ME2 you've already consummated the romance with Garrus so it's not as if the mechanics of how the romance started in ME2 is going to matter anymore in ME3.
Modifié par Collider, 03 mai 2010 - 05:52 .
#16244
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:51
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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Collider wrote...
I tend to think who pursues matters less for male players. Of course, there are limits. Liara came off as way too forward to me, they would have done better to make the romance start on the third conversation. She felt that like she was bred to the romance interest from the start.
That said, by the time you beat ME2 you've already consummated the romance with Garrus so it's not as if the mechanics of how the romance started in ME2 is going to matter anymore.
*press A to continue*
or for pc users
*press f to continue*
fffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
#16246
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:52
Guest_Raga_*
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Kim Shepard wrote...
This is exactly why I don't mind (and actually prefer) FemShep being the one who first shows interest. It wasn't too hard for my Shepard to stay out of a relationship with Kaidan, or Ashley on the MaleShep playthrough, just strange how he assumed my Shepard was interested in him and/or Liara when she didn't like either. Liara was the one who needed to get told off. >_>; My FemShep had to be more rude than she would normally be.Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
I think Bioware was so cautious with the femshep LIs for several reasons. For one, they got a lot of complaints about how hard it was to keep Liara and Kaidan off you in ME1. Your options were A) don't talk to them at all or
So far, I think the Dragon Age romances were handled well, or I just might not have had any problems yet. I've read a few things in the DA forum that makes Leliana sound like Liara in the way that she kind of assumes the Warden is interested... Anyway, I like Collider's idea best.
@Mr.BlazenGlazen: I think Garrus went to Mordin for advice.
I totally don't understand how people have managed to accidentally initiate romances with Leliana. *hint* If you call her beautiful, talk about how "special" she is and so on, she will take it as romantic interest. I find it really weird that people will pick those options and assume they are platonic when the next option down in the dialog list is something like "You are treasured FRIEND" or "You are an asset to the team" or something like that. I have never accidentally initiated a DAO romance. Not claiming it's impossible, but if you pay attention and read all the dialog options, I think it's pretty apparent what's what. No meaning to offend anyone here, but I just don't get it.
#16247
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 05:54
Collider
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I did think the DA romances seemed pretty straight forward. In ME though, I got stuck in the Ashley romance and locked in. When I didn't want to.
#16248
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 06:05
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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@ collider
was talking about after the romance were you get to call them up to your room. That made me facepalm, they even half assed the animation in that too.
was talking about after the romance were you get to call them up to your room. That made me facepalm, they even half assed the animation in that too.
#16249
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 06:08
Collider
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I was surprised they had that and thought it was a nice little addition. I was just wish there was less clipping and Shepard wasn't stroking air when cuddling with Tali. And that MShepard didn't look so weird on the couch.
#16250
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 03 mai 2010 - 06:09
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Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
@ collider
was talking about after the romance were you get to call them up to your room. That made me facepalm, they even half assed the animation in that too.
I would gladly sacrifice those silly animations for some post romance scene Garrus dialog. I mean, come ON, what happened? What does he think about it? Did it "go right?" Was it just "blowing off steam?" or did it turn into something else? It's so bloody frustrating. Just one line like they gave Tali would have been better than nothing at all! It's like it didn't happen. This is another reason I say they assumed the Garrus romance wouldn't be that popular. It has so little content compared to the others.
Of course, on the good side, that does mean they have lots of untapped ideas for content for ME3....are you paying attention Bioware?
