27956 réponses à ce sujet

[kglaser]

Rebe70 wrote...
 Even the paragon move is kind of condesending..."consider me seduced smooth talker..."  Geez, the guy goes to all this effort, is obviously nervous (and I can't imagine he normally would be - with Turian females) and she shoots him down slightly...I  think there should have been a slightly softer option in dialogue.  Meh, maybe that is just me.

No, that is not just you.  I was disappoint at both the dialogue, which was unnecessarily trite, and the delivery, which was borderline sarcastic.  I would have much preferred it if she had just put her fingers lightly over his mouth while he was talking to shut him up, then she could have said something like "You worry too much" but not in the snarky way she said the other line.  Like if she could whisper it or something.  That would have been SO much more appropriate, IMHO.

edited:  From reading further in the thread, it appears one of her other responses is something along those lines (I never picked any other kid of response, so I didn't know).  I think they should have used that for the interrupt.  I've decided to never use that Paragon interrupt again.  It's the worst one in the game, that I can find.

Modifié par kglaser, 03 mai 2010 - 08:45 .

[janeym27]

@Nivenus. I don't think that MaleShep is ever the paasive sudecee wither though. As I said before, the way the relationships with the male LIs develop, it would have been OOC for any of them to come on overtly to Shepard, but they are all certainly keen. Miranda has the arrogance which permits her to be a bit flirtatious, and Tali has been in love with Shep since ME1 (and is trying to hide it in plain sight), but I still think it is Shepard who makes the 1st move. And in his progression through Miranda's romance in particular, is forward enough to border on sleazy quite a lot of the time (the hug aside, a lot of their banter had me going "if I met him IRL: drink. in. face.). Shepard a person is not backwards abotu coming forwards. It just so happens that the female characters who Shep has available for romance in ME2 are less shy about expressing their feelings in the first instanace. Well, that was my feeling. I'm not a fan of the MaleShep romances though, so I'll be honest in admiting I've only done them once each (actually, aside from Garrus, I've only done each romance once. Except Jacob, who got to 'locked in' again in a bid to get the cuddlebone line). I find MaleShep incredibly cheesy in romance. I find FemShp flirty and fun, largly due to Jennifer Hale's awesome delivery.



It's interesting to see so many people who hate the 'That's me seduced' line, and the 'Shut up and stop worrying'. I liked them. I thought that they were an attempt at Shep breaking the tension, clouded slightly by the fact that she was also nervous as hell. lol



@Sialater. I know, right? When those two have any kind of relationship problem, it's going to be a lot of awkward silences and arguments over toast before they actually deal with them. XD

[janeym27]

aynxalot wrote...

janeym27 wrote...

@Nivenus. I don't think that MaleShep is ever the paasive sudecee wither though. As I said before, the way the relationships with the male LIs develop, it would have been OOC for any of them to come on overtly to Shepard, but they are all certainly keen. Miranda has the arrogance which permits her to be a bit flirtatious, and Tali has been in love with Shep since ME1 (and is trying to hide it in plain sight), but I still think it is Shepard who makes the 1st move. And in his progression through Miranda's romance in particular, is forward enough to border on sleazy quite a lot of the time (the hug aside, a lot of their banter had me going "if I met him IRL: drink. in. face.). Shepard a person is not backwards abotu coming forwards. It just so happens that the female characters who Shep has available for romance in ME2 are less shy about expressing their feelings in the first instanace. Well, that was my feeling. I'm not a fan of the MaleShep romances though, so I'll be honest in admiting I've only done them once each (actually, aside from Garrus, I've only done each romance once. Except Jacob, who got to 'locked in' again in a bid to get the cuddlebone line). I find MaleShep incredibly cheesy in romance. I find FemShp flirty and fun, largly due to Jennifer Hale's awesome delivery.

It's interesting to see so many people who hate the 'That's me seduced' line, and the 'Shut up and stop worrying'. I liked them. I thought that they were an attempt at Shep breaking the tension, clouded slightly by the fact that she was also nervous as hell. lol

@Sialater. I know, right? When those two have any kind of relationship problem, it's going to be a lot of awkward silences and arguments over toast before they actually deal with them. XD

I don't hate the lines, I mean it's nice to get the romance at all. But I just feel it could have been done a bit better, and without much effort. Maybe that's what bugs me, was that with all of the other areas that got loving attention to detail, a few corners were cut on the romances and that gives me a sad. I mean, the little things that could have been done- Garrus looking at Shep's hand when she touches his shoulder in the 2nd convo, a little more dialogue or tweaking what's already there, a little more effort into the animating of the culmination scene (and extending it by, seriously, just 3-5 seconds would have turned it from great into solid gold.) I know, the romances aren't the main part of the story, but geesh- if they're gonna do them, really do them justice.

That said, I really think Tali and Thane's romances had the most thought put into them. Just IMO.

I'd agree with that (although Jack's is interesting because of the renegade/paragon pathways it holds, even though renegade can't get you paramour. Felt like the progression had more thought put into it than some). I don't think people expected anyone to go for Garrus, really. I think they expected Tali to be the fave female LI, and Jacob the fave male, with Thane a close second. It's frustrating how they handled Garrus as a romance and a bromance in terms of giving us hardly any conversations with! Sigh.

I wonder what the statistics actually are on who romanced who. I knwo we have polls and all on here, but I wonder if BW actually monitor how mnay people romance each character, so there is a way to get a definitive answer as to who the fave romances were. It would be interesting to see those stats...

[Cerrydd]

kglaser wrote...

No, that is not just you.  I was disappoint at both the dialogue, which was unnecessarily trite, and the delivery, which was borderline sarcastic.  I would have much preferred it if she had just put her fingers lightly over his mouth while he was talking to shut him up, then she could have said something like "You worry too much" but not in the snarky way she said the other line.  Like if she could whisper it or something.  That would have been SO much more appropriate, IMHO.

Yes, this. I don't hate the interrupt or the line she responds with, I just think it could've been delivered better, like you said. It all comes down to the way she says it. Intonation is key. She could have said it with a softer voice, but right now it just sounds blunt.

But I'll just keep telling myself it's because they both had no idea of the other one's feelings. Lalalala

[kraidy1117]

For the girls.

[Nivenus]

janeym27 wrote...

@Nivenus. I don't think that MaleShep is ever the paasive sudecee wither though. As I said before, the way the relationships with the male LIs develop, it would have been OOC for any of them to come on overtly to Shepard, but they are all certainly keen. Miranda has the arrogance which permits her to be a bit flirtatious, and Tali has been in love with Shep since ME1 (and is trying to hide it in plain sight), but I still think it is Shepard who makes the 1st move. And in his progression through Miranda's romance in particular, is forward enough to border on sleazy quite a lot of the time (the hug aside, a lot of their banter had me going "if I met him IRL: drink. in. face.). Shepard a person is not backwards abotu coming forwards. It just so happens that the female characters who Shep has available for romance in ME2 are less shy about expressing their feelings in the first instanace. Well, that was my feeling. I'm not a fan of the MaleShep romances though, so I'll be honest in admiting I've only done them once each (actually, aside from Garrus, I've only done each romance once. Except Jacob, who got to 'locked in' again in a bid to get the cuddlebone line). I find MaleShep incredibly cheesy in romance. I find FemShp flirty and fun, largly due to Jennifer Hale's awesome delivery.

I disagree. I don't feel that my infiltrator Shepard was passive, but it felt to me like it was Tali who initiated the romance. But that's kind of off-topic, so I'll leave it at that.

I'm given to understand Garrus is very much the opposite, though - though I haven't actually gotten around to romancing him yet (I have a single female Shepard coming up, but don't know if she'll go for him or someone else, yet).

[janeym27]

@Nivenus. I get that. But I felt like Tali has been coming onto Shepard (male and female) since ME1. It's up to Shep to say 'OK - we are doing this' (IMO, and you're right, OT)



You can play though romancing a couple of people, and see which way you want the romances to play out. Or, you can do the thing where you romance/O4/dump/romance new person.



Garrus is by far my fave romance (obviously - listen to that voice! lol) but it's worth doing each of them at least once. (however, it is not worth rejecting each of them at least once. Especially not Garrus. It will gove you a sad.)

[Sialater]

janeym27 wrote...

@Nivenus. I get that. But I felt like Tali has been coming onto Shepard (male and female) since ME1. It's up to Shep to say 'OK - we are doing this' (IMO, and you're right, OT)

You can play though romancing a couple of people, and see which way you want the romances to play out. Or, you can do the thing where you romance/O4/dump/romance new person.

Garrus is by far my fave romance (obviously - listen to that voice! lol) but it's worth doing each of them at least once. (however, it is not worth rejecting each of them at least once. Especially not Garrus. It will gove you a sad.)

Heck just offering to spar instead of work off steam makes me sad.  (I'm on my Thane game.  No Garrus. )

[enormousmoonboots]

What the hell, you guys, I had a dream there was a discussion in this thread about Garrus's 'eyebrow' animations. Is this what happens when I take a break from here?

Tootles FTW wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
DA did a decent job in regards to this, but overall I'd give Bioware a D in regards to how they do romances.

Compared to what, though?  Bioware is the first game developer that I've come across to incorporate any sort of lengthy romance(s) in the majority of their games.  If you know a game that does it better I would sincerely like to know so that I can go & buy it! 

Persona 4 and, to a lesser degree, Persona 3. You interact with ~20 people, each of who has ten scenes. Some characters have romance paths--in P4, you can reject the romance and continue your platonic relationship, Persona 3 railroads you into romance with them (so, like Mass Effect :U). Both games you have a male PC, but Persona 3 is being rereleased on the PSP in July with a female main character and romances. I think they're also incorporating friendship paths, too. Turn-based JRPGS, part of the larger Shin Megami Tensei series but playable on their own. They're my faaaavorites~

Romance stuff--the only 'forward' one that really bugs me is Jacob's, because it's really easy to give a polite reponse (or even a rude response!) and then have every option on the dialog wheel be a flirt option. Not tone of voice (well, that's bad too), just the railroading. WTF? Doesn't bother me otherwise, the case of everyone ever secretly being in ~love~ with Shepard bugs me more (I have trouble with Thane for this reason). I found Kaidan really bland for that, he doesn't flirt and tease like Carth so his romance is just sort of...'you're talking to me. That means you're flirting with me.' (I think I am an odd duck, fandom-wise, because I like Carth and dislike Kaidan). There's not really anything else to define it since it's so 'general'. You could stick him with pretty much any Shepard ever.

I think it frustrates people because it restricts roleplaying/headcanon, forces a character onto your Shep. I kinda like the challenge that it adds (romantically inept Shepard goes for head-on charge because she doesn't know what else to do), but I can see why it annoys people.

I kinda missed the boat on the 'meet Shepard' thing, so I'll just link stuff for Kirke Shepard. I think it's always interesting how people say that they let Garrus kill Saleon/Sidonis because they respect him to make the decision...I guess since I favor the argumentative/debate side of things (Boots, argue with someone? Shock!) I see it as I respect him enough to disagree with him. I once saw someone put it as "Why won't you treat me like an equal and let me make my own decisions?" "I am treating you like an equal--an equal that's making a bad choice." Which is kind of a 'Shepard as ultimate moral authority' way to put it, but that is the way the game treats you.

[Nevara]

Well, if you look at both of their histories, both of them have had to stuff their emotions away as a defense mechanism. My colonist/sole survivor has had a lot of loss obviously. Why put all these feelings into the mix when the possibility of someone rejecting you or at the most dying on you is a real possibility.



I mean think back to Horizon, even though I didn't woo Kaiden (because my heart has belonged to Garrus since I met him on the Citadel) her happiness in finding a friend was compleltely shattered by Kaiden being a jack***. Since Garrus has been my right-hand man since the beginning, he was the one who chimed in to take some of the verbal assault off of Shepard. (a hint at some feelings possibly?)



Even Garrus himself doesn't like following his feelings. His feelings get his own crew killed (in his opinion). He's more reserved and the thought of Shepard even considering recipricating such feelings probably is something he never thought of.



They are both fighters and both have lost a lot in the course of a couple of years, the actualization that someone loves them for them and not as some hormonally driven need to just get some heavy breathing going is what makes their relationship all the sweeter.



Even still, their scene was just that a breaking down of barriers. Their defenses falling and leaving them in a very uncomfortably vulnerable state. Both never seeing eachother for what they really were.



Sorry for rambling its my first post.

[Collider]

I think they expected Miranda to be the most popular. I mean, the warddrobe. The sex scene. The fact that she's human and has a face. Her sex scene was advertised by Bioware themselves, I think they were riding on her being the most popular, and from my own experience, she is. The forum seem to be very disproportionate.

[Nivenus]

Collider wrote...

I think they expected Miranda to be the most popular. I mean, the warddrobe. The sex scene. The fact that she's human and has a face. Her sex scene was advertised by Bioware themselves, I think they were riding on her being the most popular, and from my own experience, she is. The forum seem to be very disproportionate.

My experience in real life and on Kotaku says otherwise, but that's hardly a representative sample.

Personally, I think they overplayed themselves with Miranda. So much so that people tend to overlook what's actually interesting about her character.

[Collider]

I'm not really sure what the significance of Kotaku is.

But your mileage will vary in terms of "real life" experience. My own is that everyone I know who's played the game went with Miranda. I imagine the casual or average dude, who is likely the bulk audience, is going to go for the T&A, so to speak, especially as it was so advertised.

[kraidy1117]

Collider wrote...

I'm not really sure what the significance of Kotaku is.
But your mileage will vary in terms of "real life" experience. My own is that everyone I know who's played the game went with Miranda. I imagine the casual or average dude, who is likely the bulk audience, is going to go for the T&A, so to speak, especially as it was so advertised.

I like Miri, shes a very complex character.

[Collider]

Oh I'm not saying she's not Kraidy. Just that the average dude is going to go for her.So it seems anyway.

[Nivenus]

Collider wrote...

I'm not really sure what the significance of Kotaku is.

None whatsoever. It just happens to be a gaming site I frequent.

Though I'm given to understand IGN and 4chan (of all things) are the same way, LI preferences-wise.

[Collider]

Nivenus wrote...

Collider wrote...

I'm not really sure what the significance of Kotaku is.

None whatsoever. It just happens to be a gaming site I frequent.

Though I'm given to understand IGN and 4chan (of all things) are the same way, LI preferences-wise.

Thing is that the forums is not necessarily a representation of most of the player audience. The best indication of which romance is the most popular (in terms of users) would be the automatic feedback setting that the game has when you are connected to xbox live or the internet on the PC.

[kraidy1117]

Collider wrote...

Oh I'm not saying she's not Kraidy. Just that the average dude is going to go for her.So it seems anyway.

The only non complex character is Jacob.....

[janeym27]

Nevara wrote...

Well, if you look at both of their histories, both of them have had to stuff their emotions away as a defense mechanism. My colonist/sole survivor has had a lot of loss obviously. Why put all these feelings into the mix when the possibility of someone rejecting you or at the most dying on you is a real possibility.

I mean think back to Horizon, even though I didn't woo Kaiden (because my heart has belonged to Garrus since I met him on the Citadel) her happiness in finding a friend was compleltely shattered by Kaiden being a jack***. Since Garrus has been my right-hand man since the beginning, he was the one who chimed in to take some of the verbal assault off of Shepard. (a hint at some feelings possibly?)

Even Garrus himself doesn't like following his feelings. His feelings get his own crew killed (in his opinion). He's more reserved and the thought of Shepard even considering recipricating such feelings probably is something he never thought of.

They are both fighters and both have lost a lot in the course of a couple of years, the actualization that someone loves them for them and not as some hormonally driven need to just get some heavy breathing going is what makes their relationship all the sweeter.

Even still, their scene was just that a breaking down of barriers. Their defenses falling and leaving them in a very uncomfortably vulnerable state. Both never seeing eachother for what they really were.

Sorry for rambling its my first post.

I agree. Well said. And welcome.

Never apologise for rambling - I'd say most of us regulars here ahve been guilty of it at one point or another. I blame the wine.

[kraidy1117]

Collider wrote...

Nivenus wrote...

Collider wrote...

I'm not really sure what the significance of Kotaku is.

None whatsoever. It just happens to be a gaming site I frequent.

Though I'm given to understand IGN and 4chan (of all things) are the same way, LI preferences-wise.

Thing is that the forums is not necessarily a representation of most of the player audience. The best indication of which romance is the most popular (in terms of users) would be the automatic feedback setting that the game has when you are connected to xbox live or the internet on the PC.

As I see it Ash, Tali, Garrus Miri and Liara are the most popular LI.

[enormousmoonboots]

I move that when we start the third thread, we call it Garrus: Wall of Text Edition.

[enormousmoonboots]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Nivenus wrote...

Collider wrote...

I'm not really sure what the significance of Kotaku is.

None whatsoever. It just happens to be a gaming site I frequent.

Though I'm given to understand IGN and 4chan (of all things) are the same way, LI preferences-wise.

Thing is that the forums is not necessarily a representation of most of the player audience. The best indication of which romance is the most popular (in terms of users) would be the automatic feedback setting that the game has when you are connected to xbox live or the internet on the PC.

As I see it Ash, Tali, Garrus Miri and Liara are the most popular LI.

Can't speak as to the actual numbers, but the impression I always get is that people hate Ashley. There's a few defenders, but I know a bunch of (RL) guys who play ME, and none of them can stand Ashley. Kaidan always survives Virmire by virtue of not being Ashley Williams.

I always see the most interest for Tali, Miranda, Garrus, and Liara. Kaidan and Thane actually have a lot of interest, but you don't really see people talking about them in non-ME forums because they're the 'girl' romances.