Note: I meant reading pg 742
Modifié par Mr.BlazenGlazen, 11 mai 2010 - 03:55 .
Garrus Love and Adoration v.2
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#18551
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 03:54
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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reading this entire page would make my head asplode. how is everyone doin this morning?
Note: I meant reading pg 742
Note: I meant reading pg 742
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#18552
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 04:15
Nilfalasiel
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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
With Jacob my opinion was "meh" which to me is the only death knell of a character. I didn't hate him or love him or find him intriguing. He was a fixture in my ship about like a bulkhead. I got online and found lots of other people thought the exact same thing. That's one reason I'm inclined to bash Jacob. Anyway, I suppose given my own advice I should go back and really try to examine his character. I think the problem is that Bioware overcompensated precisely because so many people have called the femshep LIs either "whiny" or "clingy." The result? A guy with no issues who never talks about anything too serious and never has anything particularly confrontational, evocative, or thought-provoking to say. End result? Boring.
Another thing I think that is a silly criticism is to say that a character is representative of a trophe.
The word you're looking for is "trope" ^^; (sorry, literary background coming back to the surface) While I do agree that similar characters can still appear unique when put into different contexts, depending on how they are influenced by said contexts, there is such a thing as a cliché. I guess that's when a character retains the same set of overused personality traits, regardless of which context they're in and regardless of any influence that context may or should have on them. So a cliché is a static character. Or one that develops along a completely predictable and unswerving path.
And going by the opinion that well-written characters make you care about them, be it positively or negatively, I agree, Jacob is probably the worst character on the ME2 team. I really couldn't bring myself to give a damn about him. He's remarkably well-adjusted, even considering what happens with his father (I found his LM to be surprisingly disturbing for such a "no waves" character). Too well-adjusted. I know that people who defend him say that he's a welcome patch of stability in a crew full of nutcases, but it's just boring to me. I don't hate him (apart from his one moment of jackassery with Tali), I don't love him. He's just there. There are probably far worse fictional characters out there, but compared to the rest of the ME2 team...yeah, he's either at the bottom or very near it.
I have very similar feelings about ME1 Liara. I do dislike rather strongly the fact that she was written as an alien-space-babe cliché (very young, sexually inexperienced, but immediately smitten with the hero and doesn't mind threesomes? yeah...), but if you put that aside, she was just...there. She had very little in the way of individuality, she dealt with her mother's death remarkably well (or should I say, in a very generic manner), and if you weren't having a romantic conversation with her, she had almost literally nothing to talk about, besides asari factoids. At least Ashley and Kaidan still had conversation topics and opinions, even if you weren't romancing them. Liara...not really. I didn't like her, I didn't hate her. She was just there, just like Jacob. But she did redeem herself in ME2 to an extent, which is more than can be said for Jacob.
#18553
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 04:58
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All I know is, I wanna meet Jacob's mom. She's got to be awesome to have reared a son that well-adjusted with a dad that screwed up.
So, add her to the list of character parental units such as Papa Vakarian that should be met.
So, add her to the list of character parental units such as Papa Vakarian that should be met.
#18554
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 05:31
Xsause
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Fear me, lesser creatures! For I am crappy drawing skills made flesh!
I know, it's a very rough sketch. Gah, I was bored. I doodle whenever I'm bored. More than one way to work off stress, I guess.
I know, it's a very rough sketch. Gah, I was bored. I doodle whenever I'm bored. More than one way to work off stress, I guess.
Modifié par Xsause, 11 mai 2010 - 05:32 .
#18555
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 05:32
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That's better than I can do, Xsause! It's cute!
#18556
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 05:36
Shazzammer2
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Xsause wrote...
Fear me, lesser creatures! For I am crappy drawing skills made flesh!
I know, it's a very rough sketch. Gah, I was bored. I doodle whenever I'm bored. More than one way to work off stress, I guess.
crappy drawing skills? pfft. you is modest.
#18557
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 05:38
Cerrydd
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If that's crappy, then I need to find a new word for my drawing skills.
Btw: long fringe is looong... :innocent:
Btw: long fringe is looong... :innocent:
Modifié par Cerrydd, 11 mai 2010 - 05:39 .
#18558
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 05:40
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Well, trope then. Never got big on terminology. I tend to invent my own words for stuff but then nobody knows what the heck I'm talking about. I only heard that term once and I couldn't quite remember it. I agree that a character can be cliche, but in my experience it's generally pretty rare. It's very seldom that I actually say "well I absolutely never saw that coming or even got a hint of that" and when I do it's usually from something like deus ex machina that the creator pulled out of left field somewhere which is my opinion is worse than the cliche. Once you go back and look, you can almost always go "yea, I should have seen that coming" or "haw, I can't believe I didn't notice THAT." If predictability is the signal for a cliche then I am in big trouble. Maybe I've just read/played/watched too much or something, I find almost nothing extremeley original or really surprising as far as speculative genres go anymore so I have to dig in everything to find truly fresh or new content. Then again I am picky about what I read/watch/play so maybe I am just lucky at avoiding cliches.
I often think that people actually tend to overcompensate for cliches more often than they partake in them which just ends up creating new cliches. And I'm also of the opinion that some stories don't hurt from being retold. For all that people talk about how old the hero getting the girl and riding off into the sunset is, that kind of thing is still really popular. So is the dark brooding anti-hero. One of the reasons the cliches persist is that people often gobble them up. If a story contains someting resonant and true and that lasts through multiple copies and retellings, I see no need to change it up just to keep it "original" and "fresh." Stories are designed to catch people. Sometimes they do that by being unexpected and original. Sometimes they do that by being tried-and-true, predictable, and evoking nostalgia and feel good vibes. So as an example: I love Hellboy because to me those comics are very original and catchy. But I also love the Harry Potter books even though it's obvious from Book 1 that he's gonna get the girl, defeat the bad-guy through "purity of spirit" or "love" or somesuch crazy thing, and the old wizard guy is gonna die.
You also have to consider that while a particular story might be very old-hat to us, it can be very fresh to someone else. The Dragonlance Chronicles come to mind. I dare you to find a more canned story, but when I first read them at the age of 12 I had never read anything like them. To me everything in them was new and fresh simply because I had never read fantasy before.
*edit* I think it's also relevant to note that the definition of cliche tends to shift depending on what's in vogue. Postmodernism is vogue right now which involves grey, unpredictable characters so naturally traditional stories get bonked on principal. Anything with morally black and white world views with really heroic characters where the good guys win simply because they are good tends to be trashed. They're trashed not because the stories are bad, but because they are considered "unrealistic" "romantic" and "predictable." Yet to many people (some religious people perhaps, or a southern good ole boy like my dad for instance) those stories seem truthful, realistic, and invigorating in that predictability. I am not saying they are right, merely that that the definition of cliche is up in the air depending on who you ask. What is cliche to me and you is "proper" or "the way things are" or "just telling the truth" to folks like my parents. In two hundred years or even fifty years I predict a great deal that we consider original right now will be considered cliche or silly.
I often think that people actually tend to overcompensate for cliches more often than they partake in them which just ends up creating new cliches. And I'm also of the opinion that some stories don't hurt from being retold. For all that people talk about how old the hero getting the girl and riding off into the sunset is, that kind of thing is still really popular. So is the dark brooding anti-hero. One of the reasons the cliches persist is that people often gobble them up. If a story contains someting resonant and true and that lasts through multiple copies and retellings, I see no need to change it up just to keep it "original" and "fresh." Stories are designed to catch people. Sometimes they do that by being unexpected and original. Sometimes they do that by being tried-and-true, predictable, and evoking nostalgia and feel good vibes. So as an example: I love Hellboy because to me those comics are very original and catchy. But I also love the Harry Potter books even though it's obvious from Book 1 that he's gonna get the girl, defeat the bad-guy through "purity of spirit" or "love" or somesuch crazy thing, and the old wizard guy is gonna die.
You also have to consider that while a particular story might be very old-hat to us, it can be very fresh to someone else. The Dragonlance Chronicles come to mind. I dare you to find a more canned story, but when I first read them at the age of 12 I had never read anything like them. To me everything in them was new and fresh simply because I had never read fantasy before.
*edit* I think it's also relevant to note that the definition of cliche tends to shift depending on what's in vogue. Postmodernism is vogue right now which involves grey, unpredictable characters so naturally traditional stories get bonked on principal. Anything with morally black and white world views with really heroic characters where the good guys win simply because they are good tends to be trashed. They're trashed not because the stories are bad, but because they are considered "unrealistic" "romantic" and "predictable." Yet to many people (some religious people perhaps, or a southern good ole boy like my dad for instance) those stories seem truthful, realistic, and invigorating in that predictability. I am not saying they are right, merely that that the definition of cliche is up in the air depending on who you ask. What is cliche to me and you is "proper" or "the way things are" or "just telling the truth" to folks like my parents. In two hundred years or even fifty years I predict a great deal that we consider original right now will be considered cliche or silly.
Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 11 mai 2010 - 06:08 .
#18559
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 05:46
TMA LIVE
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Collider wrote...
I tend to think the people who call Garrus whiny are doing so because they are bitter about Kaidan, Ashley, or Liara not really being in ME2. So basically they are looking for reasons to dislike Garrus, and in the process exaggerate things or make things up.
I've been looking through lots of the Character Threads, and though this isn't the case with everyone, I do know some people that are in the Kaidan/Ash/Liara group that are like that, though with the other ME2 characters. Some even to the point where they force themselves to not get attached to any of the ME2 LI's in order to stay loyal to their ME1 love interest (which seems unhealthy, but whatever. Shouldn't judge). Again, not the case with everyone, but they exist.
Modifié par TMA LIVE, 11 mai 2010 - 05:47 .
#18560
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 05:47
Xsause
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Cerrydd wrote...
Btw: long fringe is looong... :innocent:
Heh, while drawing I was really worried I'd make it too short. So I...um...kinda overdid it.
The only other decent Garrus drawing I ever did was this one:
Drawing's fun, but I think I'll stick to fanfic for now.
Modifié par Xsause, 11 mai 2010 - 05:54 .
#18561
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 05:53
Shazzammer2
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decent? .... pfft. You is totally modest.
#18562
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 05:54
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TMA LIVE wrote...
Collider wrote...
I tend to think the people who call Garrus whiny are doing so because they are bitter about Kaidan, Ashley, or Liara not really being in ME2. So basically they are looking for reasons to dislike Garrus, and in the process exaggerate things or make things up.
I've been looking through lots of the Character Threads, and though this isn't the case with everyone, I do know some people that are in the Kaidan/Ash/Liara group that are like that, though with the other ME2 characters. Some even to the point where they force themselves to not get attached to any of the ME2 LI's in order to stay loyal to their ME1 love interest (which seems unhealthy, but whatever. Shouldn't judge). Again, not the case with everyone, but they exist.
I don't know why they should be bitter. I thought the ME1 LIs were boring as hell so I felt left out back then. I liked all the ME2 LIs minus Jacob much better than any ME1 LI. We're not ahead of fans of original LIs or operating at their expense. We each of us have 1 game worth of content with an LI we like (and in the ME1 people's case they actually usually have tons more dialog than us.) If all our LIs have equal footing in ME3, nobody will be ahead of anybody else. This is what I'm hoping for anyway. Pretending we have gotten special treatment at their expense and resenting us for upstaging the old LIs is just silly. We're even.
#18563
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 05:56
Kim Shepard
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By the way, I found out that the Mass Effect Wiki does have a guide for Paragon/Renegade points. Lemonwizard was right, Feros gives out a lot more Paragon points than Renegade.
Jack should survive now if Grunt and Zaeed are holding the line (actually, I just used Grunt and she still survived). You had to replay four hours though? Did you not have a save right before the Omega-4 Relay, or does it take that long on harder difficulties? o_o; Because I'm just playing on Casual and was considering trying out Normal in ME1 next time...
Also, about Garrus sacrificing himself in the suicide mission to protect someone like Morinth (I know I saw that somewhere in all these walls of text), doesn't he still think she's Samara? I thought Shepard was the only one who knew the truth.
I think all of Mass Effect's characters are very well-written (same for the Dragon Age characters - it would be awesome if each of the ME characters had personalized comments in the end the same way the Awakening characters did). Obviously, there are some characters I don't like, but I wouldn't insult them... I wouldn't want anyone to insult my favorite characters either. Different people just like different types of characters, that's all.
@Xsauce: Those are good drawing skills. Garrus and Shepard are both adorable.
That's good.Rebe70 wrote...
Plan (tomorrow night) to do the SM run without Jack dying this time. Back tracked as suggested and managed to placate Jack with a paragon comment (yay) but had to go back on 4hrs of play to do it (boo)...if she STILL dies in the SM I will consider giving her a slap <_<
Jack should survive now if Grunt and Zaeed are holding the line (actually, I just used Grunt and she still survived). You had to replay four hours though? Did you not have a save right before the Omega-4 Relay, or does it take that long on harder difficulties? o_o; Because I'm just playing on Casual and was considering trying out Normal in ME1 next time...Also, about Garrus sacrificing himself in the suicide mission to protect someone like Morinth (I know I saw that somewhere in all these walls of text), doesn't he still think she's Samara? I thought Shepard was the only one who knew the truth.
I think all of Mass Effect's characters are very well-written (same for the Dragon Age characters - it would be awesome if each of the ME characters had personalized comments in the end the same way the Awakening characters did). Obviously, there are some characters I don't like, but I wouldn't insult them... I wouldn't want anyone to insult my favorite characters either. Different people just like different types of characters, that's all.
@Xsauce: Those are good drawing skills.
Garrus and Shepard are both adorable.
#18564
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 05:58
Cerrydd
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Your drawing skills are good, Xsause. Don't make me prove it by posting my Garrus Effect again. Because THAT is crappy.
#18565
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 06:11
LOLandStuff
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Anyone remembers that Survivor poll and what happened when Liara was voted out.? Even though she was the last LI, some fans of her stormed the thread and poll, picking on people who didn't agree with them. Even if you were just "meh" with her it meant you hated her and bashed her.
I have nothing against any of the ME1 LI, I like them as characters but not as LI. I enjoyed Kaidan's "whining" or Ashley and the close relation to her sisters. Liara stated herself how she was isolated, spending her time among rocks and dirt, so I wasn't amazed by how air-headed she was.
Some just take it to the extreme and become unreasonable. You can defend your character sure, but you can't force others to like him and if he doesn't, start insulting him or his favorite character. That's pretty stupid.
In Miranda's words: This isn't a popularity contest.
But some make it so.
I have nothing against any of the ME1 LI, I like them as characters but not as LI. I enjoyed Kaidan's "whining" or Ashley and the close relation to her sisters. Liara stated herself how she was isolated, spending her time among rocks and dirt, so I wasn't amazed by how air-headed she was.
Some just take it to the extreme and become unreasonable. You can defend your character sure, but you can't force others to like him and if he doesn't, start insulting him or his favorite character. That's pretty stupid.
In Miranda's words: This isn't a popularity contest.
But some make it so.
#18566
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 06:12
Lemonwizard
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Cerrydd wrote...
Your drawing skills are good, Xsause. Don't make me prove it by posting my Garrus Effect again. Because THAT is crappy.
You guys don't even want to get started on MY (lack of) drawing skills.....
#18567
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 06:13
Cerrydd
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LOLandStuff wrote...
Anyone remembers that Survivor poll and what happened when Liara was voted out.?
Please, don't make me relive that day.
Edit: lol @ Lemon
.Alright alright, I'll repost the Garrus Effect.
And drawing with a mouse sucks anyway.
Modifié par Cerrydd, 11 mai 2010 - 06:15 .
#18568
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 06:14
Shazzammer2
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Lemonwizard wrote...
Cerrydd wrote...
Your drawing skills are good, Xsause. Don't make me prove it by posting my Garrus Effect again. Because THAT is crappy.
You guys don't even want to get started on MY (lack of) drawing skills.....
o ... m.... g.
this is trully a work of art
#18569
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 06:20
Shazzammer2
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Cerrydd wrote...
ave effect snip
!!!
#18570
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 06:21
LOLandStuff
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Lemonwizard wrote...
I like his eyes. There is something about them...
#18572
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 06:32
Lemonwizard
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I have been considering this for a while but I think I just made up my mind. I intend to utilize MS paint to produce what I hope shall become a thread so epic it lives in legend forever (or at least the next week or so).
It's probably going to take a few hours to draw all the pictures but I have some pretty good ideas, I think...
It's probably going to take a few hours to draw all the pictures but I have some pretty good ideas, I think...
#18573
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 06:37
Nilfalasiel
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Cerrydd wrote...
Still my best Garrus Masterpiece:
Abstract Garrus is abstract
Still, this looks strangely appealing to the eye. You'd probably make a killing if you sold this to a modern art gallery!
#18574
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 06:45
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Ah refreshing bad art after my walls of text. There is such a thing as so bad it's awesome, you know? A reject art thread might be fun. Only people with terrible drawing skills allowed.
#18575
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 06:50
Shazzammer2
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Cerrydd wrote...
Still my best Garrus Masterpiece:
ah yes ... *brushes chin*
very interesting. I see the emotion in this.
I understand it...but I don't understand ya know? Its just wicked.
