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[Collider]

I don't believe we can excuse Ashley but then say that Garrus should have known better. Seems unfair.



I think the fact that humans and aliens had coexisted peacefully for almost 30 years should have been enough for Ashley not to distrust aliens. She may not deserve to be called racist, but I do think she is prejudiced. It's not that bad but it's there.

[jlb524]

Dropping in to show support for Garrus!



Just...stop bashing on the Kaidan-meister!

[silentstephi]

Oh I'm under no illusions about Garrus and his racism. Cause face it, it's there, especially in ME1. It might have mellowed a bit in ME2 simply because of his time and team on Omega, but in ME1, he was pretty rigid.

Wrex is too, for the matter. I just found out today that one of the conditions that can get Wrex to stand down is to NOT recruit Garrus (blasphemy!)

Ash I think exhibits basic xenophobic tendencies, and yea, it stinks that you can't warm her to the others without romancing her, but it's the same with Kaiden (who I don't think we're bashing here jlb, honest.) If you're -mancing Kaiden, you can convince him that the Council (and I guess other races) really are that daft and that humans really are that awesome. I don't think you can call it making him a xenophobe, but it's a harsher edge. You get different dialogue from him if you "harden" him (hurrr) after the Rachni decision.

[Collider]

Wrex is too, for the matter. I just found out today that one of the conditions that can get Wrex to stand down is to NOT recruit Garrus (blasphemy!)

Really? How does that...why would that be a way? That seems really random.

[Minardii]

I agree.. That just seems.. goofy!

[Collider]

I think I might get why Wrex stands down if you don't recruit Garrus: the size of the squad.

[Pacifien]

Collider wrote...
I don't believe we can excuse Ashley but then say that Garrus should have known better. Seems unfair.

Where's Garrus been working for the past few years when you first meet him?

[Collider]

Pacifien wrote...

Collider wrote...
I don't believe we can excuse Ashley but then say that Garrus should have known better. Seems unfair.

Where's Garrus been working for the past few years when you first meet him?

C-Sec which is dominated by Turians and Humans. I haven't seen a single Salarian C-Sec officer.

Ashley isn't cut off from the world. She is going to know that aliens and humans are currently coexisting peacefully.

[Pacifien]

Collider wrote...
I think I might get why Wrex stands down if you don't recruit Garrus: the size of the squad.

The other factor would have to be not recruiting Liara yet. When you get to the point where Kaidan is in one place while Ashley is in another, if you haven't recruited Garrus, don't have Liara yet, and Wrex is dead, your only squadmate choice is Tali. The developers apparently didn't want to let you proceed without at least two squadmates.

[silentstephi]

From the Wiki:

On Virmire, when Wrex finds out that Shepard is trying to destroy a cure for the genophage, he threatens to kill the Commander, stressing that he can cure his people. He is either shot by Shepard, if you choose the Renegade option, or by Ashley (either on Shepard's orders or her own initiative). Alternatively, if your Charm or Intimidate skill is high enough, or if you helped Wrex to recover his family armor, or if you did not recruit Garrus, he can be persuaded enough to reaffirm his hatred for Saren and rejoin the squad.

Which makes a tiny amount of sense, I guess.

And I saw a bunch of Salarians in C-Sec during ME1. They looked like they were apart of C-Sec, wearing a different uniform from the turians and humans, but still in uniform.

[Collider]

Pacifien wrote...

Collider wrote...
I think I might get why Wrex stands down if you don't recruit Garrus: the size of the squad.

The other factor would have to be not recruiting Liara yet. When you get to the point where Kaidan is in one place while Ashley is in another, if you haven't recruited Garrus, don't have Liara yet, and Wrex is dead, your only squadmate choice is Tali. The developers apparently didn't want to let you proceed without at least two squadmates.

Makes sense. Just nothing I ever thought about since I always recruit everyone.

[Pacifien]

Collider wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Where's Garrus been working for the past few years when you first meet him?

C-Sec which is dominated by Turians and Humans. I haven't seen a single Salarian C-Sec officer.

I'm not sure if there really are that many humans in C-Sec based on Shepard's comment to Bailey, though they were specifically commenting on human captains. Turians make up a good portion of C-Sec, but there are asari and salarians to be seen at C-Sec headquarters in the first game. Not that I use what we see in the game as an actual presentation of the place, as that would mean C-Sec has no female Turians and Salarians.

Who's in C-Sec isn't entirely the point, though. It's more about who's on the Citadel.

Collider wrote...
Ashley isn't cut off from the world. She is going to know that aliens and humans are currently coexisting peacefully.

This is exactly why I wrote about my own experiences with ignorance and racism. Ashley is cut off from the alien world. Being told the world is one way and actually seeing that world are two completely different experiences. Sometimes you really have to experience it first hand to truly understand.

[silentstephi]

GAIZ, I'm at the Kelly convo, I think...

HOW DO I GET HER TO SAY THE CUTE COUPLE?!?!??!

I mean... I said the part about I worry about him... I WANT CUTE COUPLE COMMENT! /flails around redonkulously

[Pacifien]

I've never gotten Kelly to reference my relationships. Kasumi, though...

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

jlb524 wrote...

Dropping in to show support for Garrus!

Just...stop bashing on the Kaidan-meister!

Wait a sec...a liara fan actually likes garrus? i thought i would never see the day. and yeah post more with us, we are a nice bunch.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

silentstephi wrote...

From the Wiki:

On Virmire, when Wrex finds out that Shepard is trying to destroy a cure for the genophage, he threatens to kill the Commander, stressing that he can cure his people. He is either shot by Shepard, if you choose the Renegade option, or by Ashley (either on Shepard's orders or her own initiative). Alternatively, if your Charm or Intimidate skill is high enough, or if you helped Wrex to recover his family armor, or if you did not recruit Garrus, he can be persuaded enough to reaffirm his hatred for Saren and rejoin the squad.

Which makes a tiny amount of sense, I guess.
And I saw a bunch of Salarians in C-Sec during ME1. They looked like they were apart of C-Sec, wearing a different uniform from the turians and humans, but still in uniform.

"Did not recruit garrus?"

god i still am trying to think who would be that stupid enough to do that. I mean, i just...just

[Cerrydd]

Pacifien wrote...

Ashley's comments indicate ignorance rather than truly racism/xenophobia. She's lived among humans all her life, her tours of duty have kept her in human space. What she knows of aliens are what the Turians have done to Shanxi, how the Alliance teaches soldiers to fight aliens, what she sees on the human-centric news. She brings those impressions with her. Wrex shoots Fist? Proves the stories that krogans are just mindless killing thugs. The Turian Councilor's resistance in believing the claims that Saren, a turian, is a traitor? Shows turians will stick by each other at the cost of human lives. Every stereotype that Ashley sees is amplified.

However, look at Pressly's datapad among the Normandy wreckage. Here was someone equally distrustful of aliens, but after spending some time with them, he changes his tune to say he'd gladly give his life for any of them. Ashley volunteers to be a liason with the salarians on a distraction team where high casualties are expected: she's putting her life and trust in their hands.

Actually, time with that STG unit shows some of Garrus's own prejudice, where he admits he's quick to dismiss salarians as actual soldiers. (Though not that particular STG.) And we're talking two species that have worked together for over a thousand years.

Not only that, but if you're a male Shepard romancing Ashley, you can actively change Ashley's mind about aliens. I actually thought it was a pity that it was only something you can do if you romanced her. What, friends can't offer a bit of persuasion on various viewpoints?

I don't know, I've personally experienced racism, and Ashley does not fit that bill. I've also seen people get extremely curious about my culture, suddenly asking me if people do such and such in that culture, not realizing just how racially charged and stereotypical their perceptions and questions are. But it's a different culture, they've never experienced it, they honestly don't know any better. Perhaps that experience makes me forgive quite a lot about Ashley.

Garrus, however, should have known better than to underestimate the salarians. That should be some universal rule right up there with never starting a land war in Asia.

QFT. There's a big difference between being a racist and ignorant. She doesn't know better, you can't blame her for that. But she can still learn things. Pressly is the perfect example of that. Garrus can learn too, he was pretty cocky in ME1 with his elevator talk. But I think he changed is mind, because he had at least one salarian and a batarian (!) in his merc squad. I don't think he'd trust everybody just like that to get them in his team.

A little late, but what I don't really like about Garrus: he's a little too impulsive. The guy needs to learn how to relax, think before he acts instead. That's why I don't let him kill Sidonis. I just hope he learns how to handle the shades of grey in life

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Did somebody say "shades" and garrus in the same sentence?



http://www.facepunch...line=1269147524

[Minardii]

Ah, I heard that the MS paint adventures were back up, but I never got a link back to it

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

[Pacifien]

Here's a link to the current ME Paint Adventures, but it's not really running like it was. Lankist has to work on it by proxy for one.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Pacifien wrote...

Here's a link to the current ME Paint Adventures, but it's not really running like it was. Lankist has to work on it by proxy for one.

and it has to be in high quality. *sigh* its not what it used to be either, not to much activity in that thread.

[Minardii]

Yeah, last post it seems by Lankist is.. 6 days ago. Thanks for the link though! Was pretty funny how Garrus was the "Bromance" in it (loong agoo)

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Minardii wrote...

Yeah, last post it seems by Lankist is.. 6 days ago. Thanks for the link though! Was pretty funny how Garrus was the "Bromance" in it (loong agoo)

i want new things...its taking to long for more dlc or more ME paint adventures to come out. and to long for more fanfics to come out. Good god i think i have become obsessed. 

[Minardii]

Haha, I know Blaz! I am quite excited to see how they'll try and bridge the way to ME3 with DLC (And bah at probably 7$ a pop..), and what they'll add in for everyone. Plus, new things ARE shiny!

Quick, give me the motivation to start up my ME1 game and playthrough it D:. (Cue Hold the Line coming up on shuffle on Mediamonkey).

Edit: OR CUE not queue! mehhhh.

Modifié par Minardii, 20 mai 2010 - 05:25 .