I agree Garrus has a racial slant in the first game about krogan and quarians at least and his comments to Wrex and Tali show that. I don't think he has a stick about salarians though. Even Mordin himself says something like "Salarians lack brute strength. Have to rely upon stealth. Intelligence." The STG is not designed to be in big firefights. They are spies. For Kirrahe and his men to be fighting that way on Virmire is really a last resort. Even salarians admit they usually suck at that kind of thing. Mordin's tough but he's also at the top of the "squishy" list that dies during the Hold the Line sequence in the suicide mission. That bit about people "never see me coming" is actually him using his intelligence against his enemies as much as strength. He attacks from surprise because they underestimate him and he knows they will underestimate him and uses that to his advantage. If they expected him to attack and were prepared I'm not sure he could have taken those mercs out so readily. I think Garrus is actually paying the salarians a complement when he says that. Everybody knows the salarians aren't really designed for frontline fights and he's saying these soldiers are more than adequate despite their disadvantage. I don't think pointing out a bonafide racial truth is racist. The salarians aren't as strong as humans and turians. Period. That's just true. Just like humans and turians are weaker than krogan. There's other things salarians are better at that humans and turians (processing information quickly for instance.) I know there are exceptions in every race, but they are rare. The salarians rely on the STG more than a standard army for a reason. Anyway, as I say, I don't dispute that Garrus was ignorant in ME1, but his ignorance was with races he had little dealings with (quarians, krogan.) I like to think he learned a lot. If he was racist, you would think he would hate humans as many turians do, but he doesn't care in the slightest that you are human. He's open-minded where he has experience and narrow-minded where he doesn't.
Garrus Love and Adoration v.2
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#20977
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 05:51
Collider
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I agree with Raga 100%. Very well put.
#20978
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 05:53
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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you do this a hell of a lot better then i can do.Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
I agree Garrus has a racial slant in the first game about krogan and quarians at least and his comments to Wrex and Tali show that. I don't think he has a stick about salarians though. Even Mordin himself says something like "Salarians lack brute strength. Have to rely upon stealth. Intelligence." The STG is not designed to be in big firefights. They are spies. For Kirrahe and his men to be fighting that way on Virmire is really a last resort. Even salarians admit they usually suck at that kind of thing. Mordin's tough but he's also at the top of the "squishy" list that dies during the Hold the Line sequence in the suicide mission. That bit about people "never see me coming" is actually him using his intelligence against his enemies as much as strength. He attacks from surprise because they underestimate him and he knows they will underestimate him and uses that to his advantage. If they expected him to attack and were prepared I'm not sure he could have taken those mercs out so readily. I think Garrus is actually paying the salarians a complement when he says that. Everybody knows the salarians aren't really designed for frontline fights and he's saying these soldiers are more than adequate despite their disadvantage. I don't think pointing out a bonafide racial truth is racist. The salarians aren't as strong as humans and turians. Period. That's just true. Just like humans and turians are weaker than krogan. There's other things salarians are better at that humans and turians (processing information quickly for instance.) I know there are exceptions in every race, but they are rare. The salarians rely on the STG more than a standard army for a reason. Anyway, as I say, I don't dispute that Garrus was ignorant in ME1, but his ignorance was with races he had little dealings with (quarians, krogan.) I like to think he learned a lot. If he was racist, you would think he would hate humans as many turians do, but he doesn't care in the slightest that you are human. He's open-minded where he has experience and narrow-minded where he doesn't.
and i want more garrus dialouge, there was a lot of him in me1 compared to me2. I want to learn more about him, his life, and turians in general. What we get is somewhat vague, a mystery.
#20979
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 06:17
Kim Shepard
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...I think I'm getting most of the squadmate conversation too early. xD Feros is the only main mission I've finished, but I did a lot of sidequests, and I've already done the Saleon mission, retrieved Wrex's family armor, heard the "it's getting close to the end" conversation from Tali and the "what to do about Saren" conversation from Garrus. (By the way, it's kind of sad keeping him in character to say "When I find him, he dies." Hey, MaleShep, Saren's my favorite...) I'm going to finish Liara's recruitment tonight, so my MaleShep will just have to be very careful around her. It seems like his "xenophobia" and religion conversations with Ashley have stopped the romance (her sister mentioned Kaidan in the vid-mail), but he was nice during the conversation about her sister and she called him skipper, so I'm not really sure what happened with that.
I read all of the advice here about which classes to choose and Insanity, even though I doubt I'll ever play on Insanity. For my next playthrough of ME1, I might try out Normal!
I can't think of anything I don't like about Garrus. Same with a lot of the other Mass Effect characters, but not all of them.
Also, I just thought I'd mention this because I listened to one of Kaidan's conversations today, probably the one right before he talks about killing the turian. Apparently, the Alliance hired turian mercs to teach those kids biotics. >_>; Really, Alliance? Turian mercenaries, right after the First Contact War? They didn't think that was a bad idea?
I read all of the advice here about which classes to choose and Insanity, even though I doubt I'll ever play on Insanity. For my next playthrough of ME1, I might try out Normal!
I can't think of anything I don't like about Garrus. Same with a lot of the other Mass Effect characters, but not all of them.
Also, I just thought I'd mention this because I listened to one of Kaidan's conversations today, probably the one right before he talks about killing the turian. Apparently, the Alliance hired turian mercs to teach those kids biotics. >_>; Really, Alliance? Turian mercenaries, right after the First Contact War? They didn't think that was a bad idea?
#20980
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 06:19
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Come to think. Maybe Garrus and Tali have a little less dialog because Bioware is trying to be fair to the people who had ME LIs. If we got tons of extra insight into Garrus and Tali in this game while their LIs are off who knows where, they would get royally ticked off. Or maybe it's just because Bioware figured we already knew about that stuff and their was no need to go on about it.
I'm really looking forward to that "bridging the gap" DLC Bioware has been talking about. I just hope that by "bridging the gap" they don't mean "cleaning up ME2 stuff so we can start ME3 with a blank slate." That would be first class lame. Do I want more Garrus? Yes. I want more Garrus in ME3 as a squadmate. Will I turn up my nose at Garrus DLC? No. Will I be satisfied if that's all I get? No.
I'm really looking forward to that "bridging the gap" DLC Bioware has been talking about. I just hope that by "bridging the gap" they don't mean "cleaning up ME2 stuff so we can start ME3 with a blank slate." That would be first class lame. Do I want more Garrus? Yes. I want more Garrus in ME3 as a squadmate. Will I turn up my nose at Garrus DLC? No. Will I be satisfied if that's all I get? No.
#20981
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 06:19
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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yeah....sometimes humans don't use their brains. its true even today.
#20982
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 06:20
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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and hopefully bioware is getting the memo that people want more dialouge. all of garrus's lines together probably would last 10 minutes at most. i'm sure adding another minute or two at least wouldn't be a hassle for voice actors.Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
Come to think. Maybe Garrus and Tali have a little less dialog because Bioware is trying to be fair to the people who had ME LIs. If we got tons of extra insight into Garrus and Tali in this game while their LIs are off who knows where, they would get royally ticked off. Or maybe it's just because Bioware figured we already knew about that stuff and their was no need to go on about it.
I'm really looking forward to that "bridging the gap" DLC Bioware has been talking about. I just hope that by "bridging the gap" they don't mean "cleaning up ME2 stuff so we can start ME3 with a blank slate." That would be first class lame. Do I want more Garrus? Yes. I want more Garrus in ME3 as a squadmate. Will I turn up my nose at Garrus DLC? No. Will I be satisfied if that's all I get? No.
#20983
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 06:21
Sand King
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Perfect example: llinsane1llMr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
yeah....sometimes humans don't use their brains. its true even today.
#20984
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 06:22
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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Sand King wrote...
Perfect example: llinsane1llMr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
yeah....sometimes humans don't use their brains. its true even today.
lmao yeah really.
#20985
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 06:24
Sand King
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That thread is making me laugh.Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Sand King wrote...
Perfect example: llinsane1llMr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
yeah....sometimes humans don't use their brains. its true even today.
lmao yeah really.
#20986
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 06:24
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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anyway, getting late here. Talk to you guys in the morning. Rock on garrus, rock on forever.
#20987
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 06:25
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@Kim Shepard
I think the deal with that is that Kaidan and Ashley's conversations only progress after main plot missions whereas Tali, Garrus, and Grunt get new conversations after any mission at all. You have to be conservative with it. I used to spam it and really abuse it. I usually just talk to everyone after really "big" missions (plot missions, Bring Down the Sky, Pinnacle Station, etc.) and that usually makes for a nice natural progression I have found. I can't recall how Liara's conversations progress. I think some are plot triggered-she has a unique on after Noveria and after Virmire. I can't remember on the others though.
I think the deal with that is that Kaidan and Ashley's conversations only progress after main plot missions whereas Tali, Garrus, and Grunt get new conversations after any mission at all. You have to be conservative with it. I used to spam it and really abuse it. I usually just talk to everyone after really "big" missions (plot missions, Bring Down the Sky, Pinnacle Station, etc.) and that usually makes for a nice natural progression I have found. I can't recall how Liara's conversations progress. I think some are plot triggered-she has a unique on after Noveria and after Virmire. I can't remember on the others though.
#20988
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 06:36
Kim Shepard
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Well, I think I got two or three conversations out of Kaidan and Ashley already, and one of them wasn't after a major plot point (Garrus and Wrex's missions), so I'm not sure if the romance interests get more conversations, or I just skipped talking to Kaidan and Ashley a few times. That might be it. The only conversations I can remember for Liara are the one where she's "studying" Shepard, the one about her mother after Noveria, and the one about Saren towards the end of the game. I'm trying to talk more to the squadmates I sort of ignored in previous playthroughs.
#20989
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 07:25
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*Sigh* This is why civil people hang out in character threads. Whenever things slow down here, I do sometimes venture out into the general forums and I always regret it. It's like all the nice people gravitate to some group or other and then the mean people stay outside and complain. Really, almost all the non-character threads very quickly degenerate into name-calling, nonsensical rambles, and assorted smartassery. Or at least that's been my observation. I'll stay here thank you. I like it here.
And Garrus.
And Garrus.
#20990
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 07:37
Collider
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I always thought this thread was very friendly and welcoming. Easily my favorite thread out of the entire forum. Lots of cool people and interesting discussions.
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I hope they don't go overboard on Garrus being renegade if you had him kill Saleon and Sidonis. Which is what I did. I'd hate for them to character assassinate Garrus. I wouldn't mind a more renegade edge to Garrus, but I just hope they don't destroy his character.
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I hope they don't go overboard on Garrus being renegade if you had him kill Saleon and Sidonis. Which is what I did. I'd hate for them to character assassinate Garrus. I wouldn't mind a more renegade edge to Garrus, but I just hope they don't destroy his character.
#20991
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 07:43
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Actually, you may hate me on this front, but I would really like it if Garrus went off the wall renegade...it would make for some really interesting roleplaying scenarios. I don't want ME to get too angsty though. That's DAO's department and I don't see how they could do that without it getting angsty. It could really work out poorly if you renegaded him but were really just thinking "paragade" as you did it. That's what I did but the game may assume full renegade.
I think the best approach is that he just has some canon reaction like he did in ME2 and we get a little unique dialog based on what we did in past games. Then something really definite in text form in the epilogue. That would suit me just fine.
I think the best approach is that he just has some canon reaction like he did in ME2 and we get a little unique dialog based on what we did in past games. Then something really definite in text form in the epilogue. That would suit me just fine.
#20992
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 07:50
Collider
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My Shepard is a paragade and he agreed with Garrus on Saleon and Sidonis. So yea, it could potentially turn out really bad if the game decided that Shepard wanted Garrus to be full out renegade. I mean all my Shepard did was agree with opinions that Garrus already had.
Well what I'm basically worried is that they remove Garrus' identity by making him no longer committed to justice and righting wrongs. Becoming selfish and beginning to take advantage of people. I know that's farfetched but I worry that Bioware is going to try to "punish" me or try to teach me a "lesson," by making Garrus a different person. I don't mind Garrus becoming more like the Punisher or something, he just still needs to have that drive to do good and stop criminals.
I do want something more than what was in ME2, because paragon or renegading him in ME1 didn't really seem to matter. How much more I'm not sure, I just want more of an indication that Garrus took what Shepard said to heart. I do prefer cutscene epilogues instead of text - at least for romance endings.
Well what I'm basically worried is that they remove Garrus' identity by making him no longer committed to justice and righting wrongs. Becoming selfish and beginning to take advantage of people. I know that's farfetched but I worry that Bioware is going to try to "punish" me or try to teach me a "lesson," by making Garrus a different person. I don't mind Garrus becoming more like the Punisher or something, he just still needs to have that drive to do good and stop criminals.
I do want something more than what was in ME2, because paragon or renegading him in ME1 didn't really seem to matter. How much more I'm not sure, I just want more of an indication that Garrus took what Shepard said to heart. I do prefer cutscene epilogues instead of text - at least for romance endings.
#20993
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 08:02
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I don't think he'll ever become Saren if that's what you mean. He's had every opportunity to do so and he doesn't. Remeber Harkin "What you just gonna kill me? That isn't your style?" Garrus gets a far-away look as he thinks and then he concludes "Kill you? No, but I don't mind slowing you down a little." He does that even if you full on renegade him. I actually think he became more compassionate in ME2. In ME1 he shows a kind of disregard for civilians if they get in the way of his mission (think Saleon hostages.) He shows concern for Dr. Michel but not enough to prevent him from firing a bullet two inches from her head. But in ME2, he doesn't seem so eager to run over people in his way. He tries to talk down that scared salarian with a gun in Thane's recruitment mission and he is very distraught over the loss of his team and the pain it caused their families even though they managed to kill tons of mercs. In ME1, he admits that much of his anger at Saleon was because "he got away from me." In ME2, he actually wants to do right by his men and avenge them. I think he's harsher in ME2, but he's also not so blindly idealistic. He has tempered it with a little wisdom. I don't think Bioware will butcher him. Garrus just isn't cut out for the dark side and I don't think the fiercest renegade shep on the planet could make it otherwise.
#20994
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 08:05
Nivenus
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Collider wrote...
I always thought this thread was very friendly and welcoming. Easily my favorite thread out of the entire forum. Lots of cool people and interesting discussions.
QFT.
I hang over at the Tali thread more often for a number of reasons, but the Garrus thread is definitely the best-behaved. Period. I could name common vices for virtually every other character thread that I can think of (along with common virtues) but when it comes to the Garrus thread I can only think of how easy-going and relaxing it is here.
And how on-topic it usually is.
What's your secret, Clan Vakarian? I must know!
Modifié par Nivenus, 20 mai 2010 - 08:06 .
#20995
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 08:06
Collider
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Oh I do agree. I don't actually think what I'm saying will happen. I'm just hoping that they won't go the Saren route.
Garrus definitely developed in ME2 and for the better. I do prefer Garrus in ME2 than ME1. I would say that he is more compassionate now. The whole thing about Sidonis was that Garrus was devastated at the loss of his friends.
Garrus definitely developed in ME2 and for the better. I do prefer Garrus in ME2 than ME1. I would say that he is more compassionate now. The whole thing about Sidonis was that Garrus was devastated at the loss of his friends.
#20996
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 08:07
Collider
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what Cerryd saidNivenus wrote...
What's your secret, Clan Vakarian? I must know!
Modifié par Collider, 20 mai 2010 - 08:08 .
#20997
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 08:07
Cerrydd
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Nivenus wrote...
What's your secret, Clan Vakarian? I must know!
Garrus attracts cool people.
#20998
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 08:07
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I guess calming Garrus down in the games teaches you how to be kind of chill or something.
Or the wine. It could be that.
Or the wine. It could be that.
#20999
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 08:08
Nivenus
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In regards to letting Garrus do what he wants with Saleon and Sidonis, this is a case of him slipping. He shows dangerous tendencies of recklessness and brutality and while I feel it's unlikely he would go all "muahahaha!" on us, I can definitely see him becoming a templar like figure who forgets what he's really fighting for and becomes more obsessed with vengeance and less with justice. Shepard's job in the paragon route is to remind Garrus of the value of mercy and of letting things go.
#21000
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 08:09
julian08
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silentstephi wrote...
Wrex is too, for the matter. I just found out today that one of the conditions that can get Wrex to stand down is to NOT recruit Garrus (blasphemy!)
What? That's an option? (well, not really, but in theory)What happens in ME2 if you do that?
