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[Brass_Buckles]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

shnellegaming wrote...

On the subject of betrayal, anyone think that Garrus asking Shepard, "what would you do if someone betrayed you." is serious foreshadowing for ME3??

I also wonder what in the world they can do as an opening for ME3. I mean they killed Shepard and brought him/her back. How do you top that?

I can imagine the Alliance putting Shepard on trial for working with Cerberus if you chose to blow up the Collector Base and quit Cerberus. I'd imagine that Cerberus could be the ones behind the trial maybe paying off some Admiral in the Alliance to get enough support to get Shepard on trial. However if you took the Spectre reinstatement I doubt they can do anything to you and I'd imagine the Council would step in, after all it was the Alliance who destroyed everything Shepard did, the Council only denied Sovereigns existance. That's what I think could happen, however even if that doesn't happen I doubt that ME3's start will be all happy and stuff.

You can still be stripped of your Spectre status.

[Ms Cherissa]

cedardryad wrote...

Fox is made out of evil!!!!!

A very special Hell... for child molesters and Fox Network executives.

SPECIAL ... Hell.

---

I really hope the "what would you do if someone betrayed you?" conversation was not foreshadowing. In my happy little world, Sidonis was one of Garrus's few friends from Life Before C-Sec. Maybe they went to boot camp together, maybe he bet on his buddy during the nine rounds of 'reach and flexibility', maybe Sidonis has met Papa Vakarian.  (I prefer to think these things because otherwise Garrus comes across a touch racist - "Oh noes how could another TURIAN betray me?" - and I don't like to think of him that way.)

[Splinter Cell 108]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

shnellegaming wrote...

On the subject of betrayal, anyone think that Garrus asking Shepard, "what would you do if someone betrayed you." is serious foreshadowing for ME3??

I also wonder what in the world they can do as an opening for ME3. I mean they killed Shepard and brought him/her back. How do you top that?

I can imagine the Alliance putting Shepard on trial for working with Cerberus if you chose to blow up the Collector Base and quit Cerberus. I'd imagine that Cerberus could be the ones behind the trial maybe paying off some Admiral in the Alliance to get enough support to get Shepard on trial. However if you took the Spectre reinstatement I doubt they can do anything to you and I'd imagine the Council would step in, after all it was the Alliance who destroyed everything Shepard did, the Council only denied Sovereigns existance. That's what I think could happen, however even if that doesn't happen I doubt that ME3's start will be all happy and stuff.

You can still be stripped of your Spectre status.

Yeah that's a possibility but I see no reason to do that, otherwise what was the point of giving it back to us. Besides I doubt that Captain Anderson would let that happen and since the Alliance can't interfere I think we should be fine. I'm pretty sure that if there was anyone trying to remove your Spectre status it would be the Turian Councilor. I'm kind of hoping that's not the case though, I'd actually like it if he was one of the Councilors defending Shepard.

[Sialater]

I think it would incredibly stupid, but that's just from a writer's standpoint. And writing a video game isn't the same as writing a novel.

[Brass_Buckles]

Ms Cherissa wrote...

cedardryad wrote...

Fox is made out of evil!!!!!

A very special Hell... for child molesters and Fox Network executives.

SPECIAL ... Hell.

---

I really hope the "what would you do if someone betrayed you?" conversation was not foreshadowing. In my happy little world, Sidonis was one of Garrus's few friends from Life Before C-Sec. Maybe they went to boot camp together, maybe he bet on his buddy during the nine rounds of 'reach and flexibility', maybe Sidonis has met Papa Vakarian.  (I prefer to think these things because otherwise Garrus comes across a touch racist - "Oh noes how could another TURIAN betray me?" - and I don't like to think of him that way.)

To be fair, he comes off as a bit racist in the first game.  "Well, turians would do it this way..." and "I'm doing this to clear the honor of turians..."  You know, elevator conversations with Tali, Wrex, and Kaidan all indicate that he considers turians a bit superior.  Perhaps that's the real reason he thinks interspecies relations are strange.  Other turians don't have any problem hooking up with asari.

Add to this the fact that not even his squad knew who he really was--I'm not sure who says that in-game.  It might have been Garrus himself.   I'd guess that most of his squad were turians.  Turians do have that  kind of "stick together" mindset, and whether he is a good turian or a  bad one, Garrus still seems to fall in a very turian mindset--looking  out for the good of all rather than the good of the self, taking  responsibility for his own actions... In some ways this makes him a  character foil to Thane, who, rather than take responsibility for his  actions, blames his "body" for doing them.

(Edited to add stuff, and then to take it out of the quote it mysteriously appeared within)

Modifié par Brass_Buckles, 03 mars 2010 - 04:26 .

[MarginalBeast]

Maybe the opening of ME3 will take place when Shepard and some of the crew are in the middle of a dangerous mission.

I don't know why, I just thought it could be a neat idea.

I agree with Brass, btw. Garrus does seem a bit racist, at least in ME1. Or if not racist, then at least elitist.

Modifié par MarginalBeast, 03 mars 2010 - 04:19 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

Ms Cherissa wrote...

cedardryad wrote...

Fox is made out of evil!!!!!

A very special Hell... for child molesters and Fox Network executives.

SPECIAL ... Hell.

---

I really hope the "what would you do if someone betrayed you?" conversation was not foreshadowing. In my happy little world, Sidonis was one of Garrus's few friends from Life Before C-Sec. Maybe they went to boot camp together, maybe he bet on his buddy during the nine rounds of 'reach and flexibility', maybe Sidonis has met Papa Vakarian.  (I prefer to think these things because otherwise Garrus comes across a touch racist - "Oh noes how could another TURIAN betray me?" - and I don't like to think of him that way.)

To be fair, he comes off as a bit racist in the first game.  "Well, turians would do it this way..." and "I'm doing this to clear the honor of turians..."  You know, elevator conversations with Tali, Wrex, and Kaidan all indicate that he considers turians a bit superior.  Perhaps that's the real reason he thinks interspecies relations are strange.  Other turians don't have any problem hooking up with asari.

Add to this the fact that not even his squad knew who he really was--I'm
not sure who says that in-game.  It might have been Garrus himself. 
I'd guess that most of his squad were turians.  Turians do have that
kind of "stick together" mindset, and whether he is a good turian or a
bad one, Garrus still seems to fall in a very turian mindset--looking
out for the good of all rather than the good of the self, taking
responsibility for his own actions... In some ways this makes him a
character foil to Thane, who, rather than take responsibility for his
actions, blames his "body" for doing them.

(Edited to add stuff, and then to take it out of the quote it mysteriously appeared within)

How coud anyone forget about those conversations. Garrus did have a condescending tone IMO and especially with Tali and Wrex. I think he might still keep those views but doesn't really say as much as he used to. For example in Tuchanka he thinks shooting vermin is stupid but then realizes it can work for something else. I also doubt he keeps these views on other species. He has run into two very bad Turians, Saren and Sidonis. His best friend  (or more than that) is also a human, he doesn't have the luxury of behaving like that anymore. I remember in that ME1 video where Garrus was against saving human civilians because it would hamper the mission. Now that was racist, I'm glad they didn't do that though and especially not giving Shepard the option to scold him like that, but of course that was probably the renegade option. That's strange though, I'd expect a renegade just to leave them but yeah there's also the whole humanity is "superior" thing with renegades.

[Castanea]

I think Garrus (and a lot of other characters) realistically change as the game goes on. That's one of the things I like most about ME, you see the characters learn and change as new things happen to and around them.

[Brass_Buckles]

My next Shepard will be named Saint Shepard, and will take only paragon options where they are blatantly obvious. I want to see what happens with Garrus's end dialogue in ME1 as a result. I also wonder if it's even possible to do that in the first place... and what it would lead to in ME3.

Modifié par Brass_Buckles, 03 mars 2010 - 04:42 .

[SavageLycan]

Just found this on DA in my hourly search for Garrus releated art.

http://lorik9300.dev...-sink-156013907

It makes me chuckle to no end.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

SavageLycan wrote...

Just found this on DA in my hourly search for Garrus releated art.

http://lorik9300.dev...-sink-156013907

It makes me chuckle to no end.

That reminds me of family guy for some reason =/

[Ms Cherissa]

MarginalBeast wrote...
I agree with Brass, btw. Garrus does seem a bit racist, at least in ME1. Or if not racist, then at least elitist.

I'm not denying this - he does. But I don't like to think of him that way, or, as Joker says, with that big pole up his ass. But the fact is, at least during ME1, Garrus is at least as racist as ReneShep can accuse Mordin of being in ME2. But! Not thinking that way.

(A couple of the mercs - Jaroth and the Blood Pack fellow also - say not even his squad knew anything about archangel.)


EDIT so I don't spam the boards and get us locked down again:

aynxalot wrote...

Racism does seem to be a really big,
underling theme. I suppose Garrus does come across as racist- and a
little ruthless in general. His comment about not knowing what to do
with "gray" seems like maybe it's a turian thing in general, at that.

I'm
certain that things are going to come to a head in ME3- especially for
the hardcore renegades who will have fostered a fairly brutal, bullying
stance on human superiority.

Yeah, it's one of the things that draws me to turians - and Kel Dor.  Both fictional races seem to see the universe as though everyone wears obvious white hats or black horns.

Buffy: "Does it ever get
easy?"

Giles: "You mean life?"

Buffy: "Yeah. Does it get easy?"

Giles: "What do you want me to say?"

Buffy: "Lie to me."

Giles: "Yes, it's terribly simple. The good guys are always
stalwart
and true, the bad guys are easily distinguished by their pointy
horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save
the day. No one ever dies, and everybody lives happily ever after."

Buffy: "Liar."

Modifié par Ms Cherissa, 03 mars 2010 - 05:10 .

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Garrus in my eyes isn't as "evil" or "ruthless" as people make him out to be. He seems a bit uptight about other species i admit. He seems to be caring though, hes trying to make the galaxy a better place, trying to have a purpose. He just is a little more emotionally scarred in this game, thats all.

Modifié par Mr.BlazenGlazen, 03 mars 2010 - 05:12 .

[Brass_Buckles]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Garrus in my eyes isn't as "evil" or "ruthless" as people make him out to be. He seems a bit uptight about other species i admit. He seems to be caring though, hes trying to make the galaxy a better place, trying to have a purpose. He just is a little more emotionally scarred in this game, thats all.

I don't think he's evil, or ruthless.  However, I think that in ME2, he can be very cold and calculating.  I also think that it wouldn't be hard for him to become evil and ruthless, given what he's been through.  For now, though, he's basically good, because he wants to make life better for the innocent civilians.  If that means taking out mercs who ship tainted eezo, then he will do it.  I imagine tainted eezo is a dangerous thing, since it's used to propel ships as well as for biotics.  Probably, those shipments the mercs were making got people killed indirectly--or risked it.  Garrus was simply trying to solve the problem.  However, that doesn't mean that I or my characters have to agree with his methods.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

I agree. He might be "cold" but he is still moral, trying to make a difference in the galaxy. Which is why he joined up with you in the first place. He felt like he wasn't accomplishing much in C-Sec so what better things he could do by associating himself with a spectre.

He could turn "evil", but hey, there is no damn way i'm going to let that happen anytime soon =p. That is my call....i hope.

Modifié par Mr.BlazenGlazen, 03 mars 2010 - 05:29 .

[silentstephi]

Too many posts missed to quote them all... gah.
Garrus alignment: Chaotic good about sums it up for me. Can't really qualify it in Renegade or Paragon, because he's a bit of both, just different dashes of each. He can do without the rules, and his gut has been battered and bruised since he was betrayed. And that's really the crux of it. He lost his team because his gut said, "Trust this man" and that guy sold him out. It's weird to think by removing just one guy from the equation = 10 dead guys, but he was that much of the driving force. Sometimes I think, but he's just one guy! And then I remember we're playing a Hero in Shep, who's just one person, they're saving the galaxy...
Where was I going with all this... erm, right.
Story person! Very good story! I left a comment ^.^
Brass, we get it. You don't find turians attractive. I think you mention that every time physical appearance of said race comes up.
Garrus is a racist b!******: I think for the most part, most of your alien crew is a bit racist, but that's understandable. Hell, you get to the option to play the ultimate human supremacist! But for the most part, I think that's for the people that want to be extreme about it. I like kicking the butts of batarians, but cross my quarian/turian/drell/krogan/fish?! crew and I'll eat you for lunch.
Man, I should go to bed. /flop

Modifié par silentstephi, 03 mars 2010 - 05:39 .

[MarginalBeast]

You know, I kind of got the feeling that when Garrus was teasing Tali about the elevator conversations on the Citadel, that was his way of trying to apologize to her for his rather snobbish behavior.



Of course Tali would have none of it, but at least he tried.

[Tootles FTW]

Brass_Buckles wrote...
I don't think he's evil, or ruthless.  However, I think that in ME2, he can be very cold and calculating.  I also think that it wouldn't be hard for him to become evil and ruthless, given what he's been through.  For now, though, he's basically good, because he wants to make life better for the innocent civilians.  If that means taking out mercs who ship tainted eezo, then he will do it.  I imagine tainted eezo is a dangerous thing, since it's used to propel ships as well as for biotics.  Probably, those shipments the mercs were making got people killed indirectly--or risked it.  Garrus was simply trying to solve the problem.  However, that doesn't mean that I or my characters have to agree with his methods.

I'm confused as to where you get the impression that Garrus is cold & calculating.  I find his character to be one of the most open and warm of the entire ME2 bunch.  He's passionate when it comes to his beliefs and loyalites, and this is what spurs him to seek vengeance against Sidonis - I don't think it stems from anything ruthless or unfeeling in his character, but the exact opposite.  He took Sindonis's betrayal (and the subsequent loss of his team) to an extreme because he cared too much.

His plan to lure Sidonis out could possibly be considered "calculating", but I don't think in the context you mean.

[aznsoisauce]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU--

Computron2000 wrote...

aznsoisauce wrote...

Reviving a 2-day old thread for a question from the Garrus supporters. Would you happen to know if we're missing out on any Garrus dialogue? The Garrus romancers in particular are curious if he says anything different post-suicide-mission...like Tali and Jacob. Hell, if any of the other LI's get special post-suicide-mission dialogue that would be great to know...

Or you could just tell me how to look for it myself.

I checked. There are no additional LI files replicating Tali's "sinus" dialogue for Garrus

D:

[Path Of Sorrows]

Tootles FTW wrote...
I'm confused as to where you get the
impression that Garrus is cold & calculating.  I find his character
to be one of the most open and warm of the entire ME2 bunch.  He's
passionate when it comes to his beliefs and loyalites, and this is what
spurs him to seek vengeance against Sidonis - I don't think it stems
from anything ruthless or unfeeling in his character, but the exact
opposite.  He took Sindonis's betrayal (and the subsequent loss of his
team) to an extreme because he cared too much.

His plan to lure Sidonis out could possibly be considered "calculating", but I don't think in the context you mean.

*Jumps in*

Nonono, I can see what they mean.  Garrus is, I agree, definitely passionate.  That can make him a little bit reckless, especially in ME1.  In ME2, however, he's gone off to become more autonomous from more 'standard' authority.  (Hang on, I'm getting to my point!)  He has now had the experience of a role filled with more leadership.  This certainly requires cunning.  He can be a bit...callous, too.  He has dismissed people in the past when out with my squad -- meaning, that is to say, that he doesn't really hesitate in the systematic execution of anyone that he believes is somehow 'guilty'...even if he doesn't fully investigate the situation.

Too me, he seems more like the guy with not too many friends -- but those that he has, he's extremely close with.  Garrus isn't truly a 'cold' individual, but he can be very exclusionary.  Hope I made what I'm trying to say clear.

[Ms Cherissa]

silentstephi wrote...
Brass, we get it. You don't find turians attractive. I think you mention that every time physical appearance of said race comes up.

This, Brass, though most of us have been nice about it because you do have so many wonderful things to add to the conversation, BUT...

...often when you say it, you do so in a way that seems to undermine or invalidate the opinions of those who do find turians (or non-human fake people) attractive. We acknowledge and respect your point of view; now please do the same for the rest of us and please don't let this make you cross (or run you off) because, as I said above, you bring a hell of a lot to the table and you're fun to socialize with.

I just hate it when I say something floats my boat and someone, anyone, else says, "No it doesn't, it can't". Well uh. It does and it did, please don't tell me my opinion is wrong when meaning to say my opinion is just different from yours.

Back on topic!  Sorta.  Yes, Garrus is a racist (speciesist?). Oddly, I didn't find Wrex so much so, or even Tali, though you could really tell she was homesick with how much she talked about home. Reminded me of half the kids I knew during college freshman year. I don't know how much of Garrus's views are cultural or the result of his personal upbringing, though I am going to lean towards the latter. We see enough turians who have a very live + let live or even friendly attitude towards humans.

[MarginalBeast]

aznsoisauce wrote...

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU--

Computron2000 wrote...

aznsoisauce wrote...

Reviving a 2-day old thread for a question from the Garrus supporters. Would you happen to know if we're missing out on any Garrus dialogue? The Garrus romancers in particular are curious if he says anything different post-suicide-mission...like Tali and Jacob. Hell, if any of the other LI's get special post-suicide-mission dialogue that would be great to know...

Or you could just tell me how to look for it myself.

I checked. There are no additional LI files replicating Tali's "sinus" dialogue for Garrus

D:

BIOWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARE

[lorderon99999]

well I just finished the game...and Garrus was always in my squad (except at the end he did 2 times squad leader...I knew he would not let anyone die)



I want him back in Mass Effect 3...because he his now my friend...always there and all...I did ME1 and ME2 final moments with him...so yah I support this thread



O.....I want him to have an important role in ME3 and also I want to see him in the debriefing after missions...because the crew is not Jacob and Miranda (Lol Jacob is a simple trooper...he had nothing special over the other character except from being more fun to talk with)