27956 réponses à ce sujet

[janeym27]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Deep character analysis, thats one of our specialties in this thread =)

I offer a toast to that!

Happy Hour in full swing with me! I'll drink to that. Cheers.

[Collider]

Cerrydd wrote...
This. We can expect it, renegading Jack is not a romance (that's actually casual sex) and Kelly is a fling, the rest of the romances are all equal. To make something appear long-term you don't have to spout I love yous and I want to spend the rest of our lives togethers. How long have they been together? A couple of weeks? It's new, they're (Tali/Garrus) are going from trust, respect and deep friendship to a relationship. They're taking it a day at a time, but because someone doesn't explicitly state what they feel doesn't mean the feelings aren't there.

This is why I particularly like the Tali and Garrus romances. There is a LOT of foundation. Both romances involve friendship and heavy amount of trust and respect. Even if you didn't recruit Garrus in ME1, he still respects Shepard greatly and knows who F!Shepard is. And I think Garrus would trust (or begin to trust) Shepard if Shepard trusted Garrus enough for the Sidonis' mission - after all, his crosshairs were pretty damn close to Shepard (not that I would doubt Garrus' abilities, but still).

Of course, we all recruited Garrus (besides from the uncanon science experiments anyway), so Garrus friendship in ME1 as precedence is optimal and what all of us did.

Modifié par Collider, 27 mai 2010 - 11:47 .

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Deep character analysis, thats one of our specialties in this thread =)

I offer a toast to that!

 

[Xsause]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Deep character analysis, thats one of our specialties in this thread =)

I offer a toast to that!

 

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Yes! Lets drink to our heart's desire. A one way trip to an infected liver!



Sorry, i've been watching to much yugioh abridged.

[Brass_Buckles]

Pacifien wrote...

janeym27 wrote...
Those in the 'fling' camp haven't been paying attention IMO.*snip*

I once addressed this very issue once in another thread, so to quote myself:

There comes a point when what you get out of the relationship is what you, the player, are willing to put into it. There are some romances that I actually find to be more on the casual side, but others will talk about elements I'm missing that hint toward something deeper. I'm seeing the same conversations, the same scenes as them, but I'm interpreting them in an entirely different way.

Responding to this a couple pages late, but my take:

Casual sex doesn't usually mean so much to someone that they'd put it on the same level as Garrus puts Sidonis and C-Sec in his life.  Nor would you tell your casual sex partner that it's not about how attracted or not you are to them, it's about the two of you spending a few moments "just for you."  I'd have to say if that were casual sex then they must be way better friends than is ever implied by the game.  Hence my previously posted theory that as soon as Shepard offers sex, Garrus is looking at it as being potentially more than that (because he respects her so much, and possibly can't imagine using her or being used by her).

And re on the person who said they didn't think he was hoping for romance before the romance began... Neither do I.  What I do think is he might have wanted to become better friends with Shepard, but then she gave him the opportunity to become something else to her when she offered up some hot interspecies intercourse.  Only he wasn't too sure she wanted the same thing, so he has to prompt her on why she's not chasing after a human or at least someone levo-protein-based.  There are obviously some turians who are open about their emotions and such (Septimus), but I get the feeling that Garrus is less inclined to say what he's feeling unless what he's feeling is anger or annoyance.  At first I hedged on whether it was romance or just two friends having sex, but some of Garrus's words are just way too weighted toward romance--nevermind that the forehead-touching didn't look like a "just friends" behavior to me, not with that very cautious back-of-the-hand arm-stroking Garrus was doing right afterward. It looks to me more like they're about to make love than have casual sex.  I wouldn't think mere "friends with benefits" would be snuggling and caressing like that.  It would be too uncomfortable for most people to show that much affection with someone who's just a fling and with whom they don't intend to be with again later.

I also believe that Garrus was subconsciously attracted to Shepard/had an unacknowledged crush on her before she initiated anything--he'd never considered romance or sex with her before that moment.  He very quickly decided he liked the idea.  I didn't say that Garrus doesn't find Shepard attractive at all, but he makes it clear through his dialogue that he doesn't prefer humans to turians.  I think he finds the vast majority of humans unappealing, and Shepard would fall into that category too if he didn't have other feelings for her so that he starts to like what he sees.  With that in mind, he probably wouldn't have agreed to have sex with her (a human) if there weren't something there, and I tend to think that the something in question is more emotional than physical (I'm sure as others mentioned that he finds her more attractive the more he considers the idea, and it's also possible that he had already begun to find her appealing due to sheer familiarity). Does that clarify what I was trying to say?

[kglaser]

/looks at time of original post
Yup, 19 hours behind, that's about right for me as per my usual  (danged GMT -5 EST!! feh)

Brass_Buckles wrote...
Garrus also makes it plain that he's not physically attracted to humans, which means that the sex alone isn't the kind of benefit it would be for a human male who got the same offer.

Of your entirely astute and excellent WOT, I think this is especially key:  Why would he do it unless he felt something for her, given that he's not "into" humans?  I don't buy that it's just a curiosity thing.  There has to be a deeper existing connection.

that he's nervous that he's going to ruin that aspect of it with really bad sex

This is completely inconceivable for Garrus.  Anyway, I subscribe to the saying:  Sex is like pizza.  Even when it's 'bad', it's still pretty good.

[Xsause]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Yes! Lets drink to our heart's desire. A one way trip to an infected liver!

Sorry, i've been watching to much yugioh abridged.

[Collider]

That was a really good post Brass, and I agree with you.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Xsause wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Yes! Lets drink to our heart's desire. A one way trip to an infected liver!

Sorry, i've been watching to much yugioh abridged.

Screw the money i have rules!

...Wait let me try that again.

Anyway lets get back on track. I want to see an abridged mass effect show, though Fail for the lost has to be the closest thing to it though.

[Alexine]

Getting drunk with Garrus when I wake up... on an empty stomach.



So how's the Vakarian thread doing? Anything exciting?

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Alexine wrote...

Getting drunk with Garrus when I wake up... on an empty stomach.

So how's the Vakarian thread doing? Anything exciting?

We've been discussing why garrus's romance is not a "fling" like what some people describe it as.

[Collider]

Alexine wrote...

Getting drunk with Garrus when I wake up... on an empty stomach.

So how's the Vakarian thread doing? Anything exciting?

We're talking about the nature of the relationship in Garrus' romance (as well as other romances to some extent). Most specifically, whether it is long term. I think the consensus is that it is long term, if the player makes it long term.

[Brass_Buckles]

Well there's a debate going on about whether Garrus is serious about the relationship with Femshep or whether it's either a casual fling or a friends with benefits thing.



Obviously I'm arguing that he's serious. I mean he's obviously approaching this differently than he did that turian recon scout, and that should tell us something right there! (I have a notion that that incident looked as much like their sparring as the actual sparring did, and he didn't go all cuddly with her like he does with FemShep.) He even tries to dress up and treat it almost more like a date than a "let's have sex before the mission because it might be the last time we ever do anything at all together" dealio. I don't think you'd dress up to have sex with your friend. Or buy wine for said friend that you couldn't even drink yourself.

[janeym27]

Collider wrote...

Alexine wrote...

Getting drunk with Garrus when I wake up... on an empty stomach.

So how's the Vakarian thread doing? Anything exciting?

We're talking about the nature of the relationship in Garrus' romance (as well as other romances to some extent). Most specifically, whether it is long term. I think the consensus is that it is long term, if the player makes it long term.

In any case, from Garrus POV, it's long term. The Shep opinion is up for debate.

[Collider]

janeym27 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Alexine wrote...

Getting drunk with Garrus when I wake up... on an empty stomach.

So how's the Vakarian thread doing? Anything exciting?

We're talking about the nature of the relationship in Garrus' romance (as well as other romances to some extent). Most specifically, whether it is long term. I think the consensus is that it is long term, if the player makes it long term.

In any case, from Garrus POV, it's long term. The Shep opinion is up for debate.

I agree. Garrus views this as more than just casual sex. Whether Shepard does, as you say, is probably up to the player. If we are given the option to break up with romance options as we were in ME2.

[Cerrydd]

Collider wrote...

This is why I particularly like the Tali and Garrus romances. There is a LOT of foundation. Both romances involve friendship and heavy amount of trust and respect. Even if you didn't recruit Garrus in ME1, he still respects Shepard greatly and knows who F!Shepard is. And I think Garrus would trust (or begin to trust) Shepard if Shepard trusted Garrus enough for the Sidonis' mission - after all, his crosshairs were pretty damn close to Shepard (not that I would doubt Garrus' abilities, but still).

Of course, we all recruited Garrus (besides from the uncanon science experiments anyway), so Garrus friendship in ME1 as precedence is optimal and what all of us did.

Yep, I like the friends-turned-lovers thing. It's exciting to venture a new and mysterious path with one of the other LI's, but it's really nice to have the option to continue with someone you already know. Trust is very important to me in a relationship, and with Tali and Garrus you already know where you're standing. You've been through a lot together and you know you can count on eachother. That's a great foundation for a relationship, if you want to take it to a higher level.

[kglaser]

siltsonata wrote...

silentstephi wrote...
Closer every day! XD

Awwwwwwww yeah.  "Interspecies barriers", we have dismissed that claim.  


I also forgot, there was a bit of Garrus-relatedness on my trip.  I texted my friend (Who was housesitting for my family, and watching our dog for us.) a couple days in to let her know that (gasp) I hadn't thought about Mass Effect in three whole days.  Some time later, I got this picture of plushie ME1 Garrus:

<snipity>

Hostage!Garrus approves of pancakes, people.

(I make no apologies for this.  My friends are awesome.)

you have the greatest friends of all time.  OF ALL TIME.
That picture of hostage-plushie-Garrus with the syrup is one of the greatest things I've ever seen posted, about anything.  You win several internets at once.

[Alexine]

I think it could play either way, depending on how people would interpret them. Personally, I think it's a long-term relationship, since Garrus does want to something 'to work out', which I interpret as Garrus taking another step closer to Shepard. And if Shepard breaks it off, Garrus gets extremely hurt (let's go blow something up together!)



And I'm wondering, if you actually cheated on Kaidan/Liara with Garrus, and you chose Kaidan/Liara in the end (not that I'm suggesting anything ), would Garrus actually feel rather hurt? Now thinking about it, I think Garrus would, since, due to his circumstances, he would think it's a form of betrayal. What do you guys think?

[Kim Shepard]

Xsauce, your comics are brilliant. xD Garrus, Wrex, Pallin, Nihlus, and Saren? My MainShep would be so jealous.

I don't have much to say on the topic of the romances being flings, except that I don't think they are, at least not for the characters. Shepard's opinion can be whatever the player wants it to be. My EvilShep will use the romances to manipulate people - it still doesn't count as a fling, but it's an example of a different way to play Shepard.

I see the Clan Vakarian group was made.

[Bugsie]

Sounds like its Happy Hour on the thread here - hey its only 9.30am where I am, and I’m at work, but it is Friday so why not! Cheers all!



Nice post Brass - I think most species (human included) would initially take to interspecies sex purely out of curiosity, but once you get involved with someone - really involved like you know you have the fundamental basics in common with them (beliefs, morals, goals) it is always going to be more than just physical (lust of the mind I like to call it).

[Pacifien]

It's apparent that "fling," "casual," and even "friends with benefits" are all terms I need to avoid as I've gotten the impression people equate them with "meaningless." As I said before, there are many levels to relationships and romance. It's not any more black and white than the rest of the universe...



Though perhaps Garrus, being a black and white sort of individual, does approach it that way. Still, I wouldn't say Garrus goes into the relationship for the long-term either. He goes into the relationship seeing potential.

[kglaser]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

I also like to think that the physical aspect of the relationship interests him as well, rather than just the emotional side. I've said it before, but I couldn't fathom a relationship without any physical attraction. Because how would the sex work otherwise? Forcing yourself to sleep with someone you have an exclusively emotional bond with only to please them just sounds sad and painful (cf. Sons and Lovers by DH Lawrence), and it's definitely no relationship I'd like to have or witness. And why would Garrus be so enthusiastic in the very first romance convo (where they're only discussing sex, not feelings) if he was icked by Shepard on a physical level? To me, it's something more along the lines of: there's an emotional bond which has started to make Garrus think "hmm, I wouldn't normally look at human squishy bits that way, but gosh darn, those squishy bits are suddenly starting to look mighty appealing...but why? *cue panic, awkwardness, etc.*" This is why he's so nervous during the 2nd romance convo. He doesn't have a human fetish in the sense that, had there not been an emotional bond as well, he wouldn't have dwelt on the possibility of physical attraction to a human, because it's simpler that way. But since there is, he's starting to think about it as well. It's very telling that he's looking for traits in Shepard that he'd find attractive in a turian: he's trying to apply known criteria to his attraction for her. So yes, the physical attraction is extremely dependent on the preexisting or simultaneous emotional one, but I don't think it's non-existent.

This paragraph details what I see as well, and does it perfectly.  I could never really express how I felt about it.  This is just how I feel too, thanks :happy:

eta: Xsause, what happened in that comic after the lights went out, I laughed so hard I went into a coughing fit, starting with Shepard saying "Look at this..."
That might be the funniest thing you've ever done...and that's saying something.  Ow my stomach

Modifié par kglaser, 28 mai 2010 - 12:30 .

[janeym27]

Alexine wrote...

I think it could play either way, depending on how people would interpret them. Personally, I think it's a long-term relationship, since Garrus does want to something 'to work out', which I interpret as Garrus taking another step closer to Shepard. And if Shepard breaks it off, Garrus gets extremely hurt (let's go blow something up together!)

And I'm wondering, if you actually cheated on Kaidan/Liara with Garrus, and you chose Kaidan/Liara in the end (not that I'm suggesting anything ), would Garrus actually feel rather hurt? Now thinking about it, I think Garrus would, since, due to his circumstances, he would think it's a form of betrayal. What do you guys think?

Garrus gave her several 'out's before going up to her room, and the devestation at that point (if you reject) is heartbreaking. To go through with it, fundementally changing the nature of the relationship forever, to open up to her regarding how vunerable he is (the moment right before the headbump is the most emotionally honest we've ever seen Garrus, IMO), to survive the SM, then have her go back to the person who didn't trust in her when she needed it most? I'd say that would feel like a pretty massive betrayal.

[Bugsie]

I think its been said before - rejecting Garrus is like kicking puppies.