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[Sialater]

No idea, I always paragon him.



So... I don't know that we've ever discussed this and I'm having trouble with it in my fics. What would Garrus' reaction be when he finds out what Liara did? I know most of us took him to Illium with us, what do we think he should have done/reacted?

[battlechantress]

Think he just mentions applying to the Spectres if you go the complete Renegade route with him.



And yeah, the "calibrations" thing was quite frustrating. That's really the only thing that drove me nuts about him in ME2, though trying to keep him from killing Sidonis during his loyalty mission certainly got my pulse racing at certain points too (for different reasons).

[lovgreno]

Cerrydd wrote...
What I sometimes don't like about Garrus is his hotheadedness (is that even a word?).

Now I bought a drawing tablet. I don't even know why, because I think I've already let you all know that I can't draw. x100000
(even though I'm secretly working on something, but I doubt it will ever see the daylight )

I kind of like that he is a hothead, it's part of his charm. He does the role of the young rebel rather well.
Sure, the endless calibrations are kind of annoying but then again everyone is busy calibrating/cleaning engines/researching/etc...etc...
The fact that he is not a female turian is a bit annoying but I guess I can live with that.
Other than that it's hard to think of any real flaws with Garrus.

Not being able to draw is not an exuse for not drawing. Please show us what you create.

Get well soon Buggirl.

[battlechantress]

Okay, forums are being dumb with me again. To answer the question about Liara selling Shepard's body to Cerberus: Garrus probably isn't thrilled that it was Cerberus who bought it from her, but given the alternative (Collectors, if one could really call that an alternative), he can live with it.

[Nilfalasiel]

Sialater wrote...

The doctor dies either way.  He just attacks you if you take the Paragon route.  Garrus goes to Spectre training and I don't think you get the line about how he tried to avoid civilian casualties, though.

Actually, if you Paragon the Saleon decision, the doctor tries to run away. He doesn't attack you.

[Sialater]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Sialater wrote...

The doctor dies either way.  He just attacks you if you take the Paragon route.  Garrus goes to Spectre training and I don't think you get the line about how he tried to avoid civilian casualties, though.

Actually, if you Paragon the Saleon decision, the doctor tries to run away. He doesn't attack you.

He goes for a gun.

[Cerrydd]

lovgreno wrote...

I kind of like that he is a hothead, it's part of his charm. He does the role of the young rebel rather well.
Sure, the endless calibrations are kind of annoying but then again everyone is busy calibrating/cleaning engines/researching/etc...etc...
The fact that he is not a female turian is a bit annoying but I guess I can live with that.
Other than that it's hard to think of any real flaws with Garrus.

It certainly adds to his charm, but he's like... the complete opposite of me when it comes to that. I'm always like, "relax, sit back and watch everything, everything will be alright" and he's like "GOGOOGOGOGOGO! ACTIOOON!". But Garrus wouldn't be Garrus without these impulses .

Not being able to draw is not an exuse for not drawing. Please show us what you create.

Wish granted.



This is so much more fun than drawing with pencils and paper . This actually gets my hopes up for my super secret project...

[Nilfalasiel]

Sialater wrote...

He goes for a gun.

Oh, does he? My bad, I guess I just always shoot him too quickly  

Bit of a trigger-happy Paragon, really...

[Pacifien]

Sialater wrote...
So... I don't know that we've ever discussed this and I'm having trouble with it in my fics. What would Garrus' reaction be when he finds out what Liara did? I know most of us took him to Illium with us, what do we think he should have done/reacted?

I think Garrus would be completely fine with what Liara did. He was just as lost as her when Shepard died, and he wouldn't have wanted Shepard to go to the Collectors even before the whole colony abductions started. And while he's suspicious about Cerberus, he has no problems using their resources, so I don't think he has any problem with the fact that Liara gave Shepard to them in order for them to bring Shepard back.

Actually, I wonder if Garrus has always been fine working alongside questionable groups so long as they are helping him achieve his own goal. For instance, Chellick willing to work with arms dealers in order to gain access to new tech or to get to their more powerful suppliers. Bailey taking bribes from Elias Kelham in order to maintain the peace.

Part of me thinks this is a new development for Garrus's character since his time on Omega. The whole "pole up his ass" and "too idealistic" comments about the Garrus from ME1 makes me think he was unwilling to work with people he felt were criminals during his time at C-Sec.

Modifié par Pacifien, 03 juin 2010 - 02:53 .

[Sialater]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Sialater wrote...

He goes for a gun.

Oh, does he? My bad, I guess I just always shoot him too quickly  

Bit of a trigger-happy Paragon, really...

I actually managed to wait long enough once and got Kaidan and Garrus to NOT shoot right away (made their first moves defensive rather than aggressive).   But yeah, if I remember correctly, the little bastard got a shot off before I blasted his ass.  The things I do for science.

[silentstephi]

@Sia - I think Garrus's gut reaction might have been better Cerberus than the Collectors, since by the time you hit Illum, he knows a bit more about what's at stake (usually, the Illum trip isn't until after Horizon, so the first encounter with Harby is done.)

As for what his thoughts are on it after the first reaction, I think it might depend on some more extrapolation of his personality. She did die. And was brought back. Kind of a weird spot.



@Cer - Hahaha keep it up! I actually find drawing on paper is easier at first, simply because sometimes my screw ups make pretty. I just figured out recently how to sketch with the tablet, and I've had it for years. xD Wooo for super secret!



Regarding Renegading Garrus in ME1, yes, he skips CSec and when you ask him about it in ME2, he tells you how he reapplied for Spectre training, but that the BS on the Citadel is what made him leave for Omega. Oh and I guess, in the Wikia, the "missing" months concerning him are when he was building his team? TIM tells us he went off the radar a few months after Shepard's death. Aria claims he didn't come to Omega until a few months prior to Shepard's reawakening. So that's still almost a year and a half of Garrus out in the galaxy, gathering up his dirty dozen. I SO want to see those adventures. It means they weren't on Omega, they were out in the galaxy, I wonder if he was also working on the Reaper issue in his own way, like a bit on the side maybe?

[Sialater]

Pacifien wrote...

Sialater wrote...
So... I don't know that we've ever discussed this and I'm having trouble with it in my fics. What would Garrus' reaction be when he finds out what Liara did? I know most of us took him to Illium with us, what do we think he should have done/reacted?

I think Garrus would be completely fine with what Liara did. He was just as lost as her when Shepard died, and he wouldn't have wanted Shepard to go to the Collectors even before the whole colony abductions started. And while he's suspicious about Cerberus, he has no problems using their resources, so I don't think he has any problem with the fact that Liara gave Shepard to them in order for them to bring Shepard back.

Actually, I wonder if Garrus has always been fine working alongside questionable groups so long as they are helping him achieve his own goal. For instance, Chellick willing to work with arms dealers in order to gain access to new tech or to get to their more powerful suppliers. Bailey taking bribes from Elias Kelham in order to maintain the peace.

Part of me thinks this is a new development for Garrus's character since his time on Omega. The whole "pole up his ass" and "too idealistic" comments about the Garrus from ME1 makes me think he was unwilling to work with people he felt were criminals during his time at C-Sec.

Well... he IS willing to leave Aria along on Omega.  And I doubt it was self-preservation.  She seemed to be more of a benevolent dictator than crime lord, so... Cerberus = Aria? 

But what about Liara keeping it from him?

[RPGmom28]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Sialater wrote...

The doctor dies either way.  He just attacks you if you take the Paragon route.  Garrus goes to Spectre training and I don't think you get the line about how he tried to avoid civilian casualties, though.

Actually, if you Paragon the Saleon decision, the doctor tries to run away. He doesn't attack you.

Dr. Saleon is one encounter I always renegade.  I don't feel right not letting Garrus be in control after he's had that personal vendetta for so long and has wanted justice for so long also.  The old, "This one's mine, Garrus!" seems so cruel.

[silentstephi]

Sialater wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Sialater wrote...
So... I don't know that we've ever discussed this and I'm having trouble with it in my fics. What would Garrus' reaction be when he finds out what Liara did? I know most of us took him to Illium with us, what do we think he should have done/reacted?

I think Garrus would be completely fine with what Liara did. He was just as lost as her when Shepard died, and he wouldn't have wanted Shepard to go to the Collectors even before the whole colony abductions started. And while he's suspicious about Cerberus, he has no problems using their resources, so I don't think he has any problem with the fact that Liara gave Shepard to them in order for them to bring Shepard back.

Actually, I wonder if Garrus has always been fine working alongside questionable groups so long as they are helping him achieve his own goal. For instance, Chellick willing to work with arms dealers in order to gain access to new tech or to get to their more powerful suppliers. Bailey taking bribes from Elias Kelham in order to maintain the peace.

Part of me thinks this is a new development for Garrus's character since his time on Omega. The whole "pole up his ass" and "too idealistic" comments about the Garrus from ME1 makes me think he was unwilling to work with people he felt were criminals during his time at C-Sec.

Well... he IS willing to leave Aria along on Omega.  And I doubt it was self-preservation.  She seemed to be more of a benevolent dictator than crime lord, so... Cerberus = Aria? 

But what about Liara keeping it from him?

Garrus and Liara don't strike me as all that close in ME1.  She's a bit naive, he's an idealist, sure, but she's also the daughter of Benezia.  Plus, she's up on quarters deck, he's always calibrating the Mako... I don't see them really chatting all that often.

[ciaweth]

The Mass Effect wiki seems to imply that Garrus might even have helped Liara out in her quest to recover Shepard's body.  There was an "unknown sniper" on Omega who saved her from some Blue Suns jerks. 

Whether or not that was indeed Garrus, and whether or not he knew what Liara was doing on Omega, I have no idea.  But if I go all conspiracy theory in my head the way I sometimes want to, Garrus knew what Liara was doing, and he helped her out in the best way he could without giving his identity away.

Either way, I do think Omega made Garrus more practical.  If he ever realized what Liara did for Shepard, I can see him thanking her privately for it.

[battlechantress]

Sialater wrote: Well... he IS willing to leave Aria along on Omega. And I doubt it was self-preservation. She seemed to be more of a benevolent dictator than crime lord, so... Cerberus = Aria?



But what about Liara keeping it from him?

------



I doubt he was bothered by this. After Shepard's death, he really seems to have gone into his "own little world" (no pun intended). The fact that Cerberus doesn't even seem to realize who Archangel really is leads me to believe he didn't keep in touch with *anybody* from the old Normandy (he really only looked up to Shepard, after all). So he wouldn't have expected Liara to tell him anything about what she'd done.

[Pacifien]

Also, he's currently working with Shepard while Liara will not. Whatever anger he could have toward Liara for keeping it secret (for which I think guilt is her main reason for that) might be mitigated by that fact.

ETA: Also, the Redemption comic does imply that Garrus knew Liara was on Omega and was helping her, but he likely didn't know why she was in trouble. However, the timeline of Redemption doesn't quite work with what the Illusive Man and Garrus say what happened. I think the comic is little more than a month or something after Shepard died, and Garrus implies he tried to stick it out with C-Sec for awhile. The Illusive Man says it was only months since Garrus fell off the radar, not the nearly two years since Shepard died.

And I also don't think Garrus was all that close to Liara. Liara is nice and tries to be respectful to others, but I don't think she was very good about really getting to know people during her time on the Normandy.

Modifié par Pacifien, 03 juin 2010 - 03:19 .

[Nilfalasiel]

RPGmom28 wrote...

Dr. Saleon is one encounter I always renegade.  I don't feel right not letting Garrus be in control after he's had that personal vendetta for so long and has wanted justice for so long also.  The old, "This one's mine, Garrus!" seems so cruel.

I don't see the Paragon decision as Shep claiming Saleon as her/his prize. I pick to take him in because, in order to have a more effective trial, he needs to be alive and able to testify. Besides, my Shep doesn't shoot unless provoked, and Saleon IS unarmed when you first meet him.

On top of all that, life imprisonment, to me, is a worse punishment than execution. So I see it as Shep trying to punish Saleon as best she/he can, in general, rather than "nope, this one's mine".

On the topic of unprovoked shooting: in ME1, if you bring Garrus and Wrex along for the Fist confrontation and let the 2 guards in his ante-room go, Wrex will say "it would've been simpler to just shoot them". Cue Garrus going "shooting people isn't always the best solution." Am I the only one who found that extremely ironic? Just another instance of ME1's weird party morality mechanics.

As for Liara, I haven't read the comic, but I don't think it's likely Garrus would've outright collaborated with her. I don't think they were very close in ME1 either, so if he did see her on Omega, he probably just sniped some mercs to make her life easier, without actually revealing himself to her or trying to figure out why she was there. After all, he wasn't exactly in a very happy place at the time, and keeping his identity under wraps was probably crucial for him.

As for what she did, I'm sure he's actually grateful to her for it. Yes, giving Shep to Cerberus wasn't exactly the best choice, but it was the only way to bring her/him back at that point, and I'm sure Garrus is happier with Shep alive than dead. Especially if Shep is only collaborating with Cerberus out of pure necessity.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 03 juin 2010 - 03:37 .

[ciaweth]

Pacifien wrote...

Also, he's currently working with Shepard while Liara will not. Whatever anger he could have toward Liara for keeping it secret (for which I think guilt is her main reason for that) might be mitigated by that fact.

ETA: Also, the Redemption comic does imply that Garrus knew Liara was on Omega and was helping her, but he likely didn't know why she was in trouble. However, the timeline of Redemption doesn't quite work with what the Illusive Man and Garrus say what happened. I think the comic is little more than a month or something after Shepard died, and Garrus implies he tried to stick it out with C-Sec for awhile. The Illusive Man says it was only months since Garrus fell off the radar, not the nearly two years since Shepard died.

And I also don't think Garrus was all that close to Liara. Liara is nice and tries to be respectful to others, but I don't think she was very good about really getting to know people during her time on the Normandy.

That's a weird timeline inconsistency.  In fact, it's pretty glaring.  Ick.

I agree that Garrus and Liara weren't close.  He was always very polite to her in elevator chat, almost formal.  Definitely not BFFs.  However, I also take into account that game design necessitated keeping the characters in their locations on the ship.  I doubt that was intended to signal to the player that characters never seen together had frosty relations, or didn't have contact with each other other than their missions with Shepard.  There had to be times where they ended up in the mess at the same time, for example--it was a small ship with a small crew--and we don't get to see those moments because of time/budget constraints. 

If you run into someone you've been in life-or-death situations with in the past, you at least acknowledge their presence, yeah?  So I personally justify the lack of that in ME2 by saying BioWare had to make hard decisions about what to include.  Your mileage may vary!

[smecky-kitteh]

Cerrydd wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

~snip~

~snip~

Not being able to draw is not an exuse for not drawing. Please show us what you create.

Wish granted.



This is so much more fun than drawing with pencils and paper . This actually gets my hopes up for my super secret project...

I would just like to add that that is a beautifully drwn kitteh in the bottom right.


and garrus!

[Sialater]

ciaweth wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Also, he's currently working with Shepard while Liara will not. Whatever anger he could have toward Liara for keeping it secret (for which I think guilt is her main reason for that) might be mitigated by that fact.

ETA: Also, the Redemption comic does imply that Garrus knew Liara was on Omega and was helping her, but he likely didn't know why she was in trouble. However, the timeline of Redemption doesn't quite work with what the Illusive Man and Garrus say what happened. I think the comic is little more than a month or something after Shepard died, and Garrus implies he tried to stick it out with C-Sec for awhile. The Illusive Man says it was only months since Garrus fell off the radar, not the nearly two years since Shepard died.

And I also don't think Garrus was all that close to Liara. Liara is nice and tries to be respectful to others, but I don't think she was very good about really getting to know people during her time on the Normandy.

That's a weird timeline inconsistency.  In fact, it's pretty glaring.  Ick.

I agree that Garrus and Liara weren't close.  He was always very polite to her in elevator chat, almost formal.  Definitely not BFFs.  However, I also take into account that game design necessitated keeping the characters in their locations on the ship.  I doubt that was intended to signal to the player that characters never seen together had frosty relations, or didn't have contact with each other other than their missions with Shepard.  There had to be times where they ended up in the mess at the same time, for example--it was a small ship with a small crew--and we don't get to see those moments because of time/budget constraints. 

If you run into someone you've been in life-or-death situations with in the past, you at least acknowledge their presence, yeah?  So I personally justify the lack of that in ME2 by saying BioWare had to make hard decisions about what to include.  Your mileage may vary!

Their dialogue for all the teammates was incredibly generic in ME1.  They all said the same thing.  I think the only thing we can really do is make up what the relationships were outside of Shepard.

[Pacifien]

Nilfalasiel wrote...
*snips*
On the topic of unprovoked shooting: in ME1, if you bring Garrus and Wrex along for the Fist confrontation and let the 2 guards in his ante-room go, Wrex will say "it would've been simpler to just shoot them". Cue Garrus going "shooting people isn't always the best solution." Am I the only one who found that extremely ironic? Just another instance of ME1's weird party morality mechanics.

The writers in ME1 seemed intent on maintaining an angel and a devil on Shepard's shoulders for each situation. For instance, the squadmates comments on the Rachni or saving the Council will change depending on which squadmates you bring. I prefer the consistency you get with the similar situation with the Collector Base decision in ME2. Though every squadmate that advocated keeping the base then joined the doom and gloom club if you actually took their advice.

But anyway, if you don't take Wrex to see Fist, and you charm the warehouse workers to leave, Garrus comments on how he hadn't thought of doing that. There is a very nice followup to this moment in ME2 if you actually don't take the renegade interrupt when talking to the volus impersonating Fade. Instead of shooting the krogans, Garrus will recommend they leave, which they do. It's another way that demonstrates how he's truly learned from Shepard.

Of course, you'll have to resist the urge to do the renegade interrupt, and I know how hard it is to resist some of those.

Modifié par Pacifien, 03 juin 2010 - 03:51 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Pacifien wrote...

The writers in ME1 seemed intent on maintaining an angel and a devil on Shepard's shoulders for each situation. For instance, the squadmates comments on the Rachni or saving the Council will change depending on which squadmates you bring. I prefer the consistency you get with the similar situation with the Collector Base decision in ME2. Though every squadmate that advocated keeping the base then joined the doom and gloom club if you actually took their advice.

But anyway, if you don't take Wrex to see Fist, and you charm the warehouse workers to leave, Garrus comments on how he hadn't thought of doing that. There is a very nice followup to this moment in ME2 if you actually don't take the renegade interrupt when talking to the volus impersonating Fade. Instead of shooting the krogans, Garrus will recommend they leave, which they do. It's another way that demonstrates how he's truly learned from Shepard.

Of course, you'll have to resist the urge to do the renegade interrupt, and I know how hard it is to resist some of those.

Yeah, I'm aware of why the morality shifts were there, but it didn't make them any less jarring. I brought Kaidan and Garrus with me to the final battle on my last ME1 playthrough and was shocked to have Garrus telling me to leave the Council to die. That's something I would've expected from Wrex, but not from Garrus. Similarly, I was shocked when Tali came up with that same line on my first playthrough (had Kaidan along as well).

From what I've witnessed, the relative morality of the ME1 characters goes something like this:

(Paragon) Liara - Kaidan - Tali - Ashley - Garrus - Wrex (Renegade)

So Tali will be Paragon when paired with Garrus, but Renegade when paired with Kaidan. Makes total sense

As for the volus impersonating Fade, I never took that Renegade interrupt, so Garrus always let them go. Hadn't thought of it in relation to the Fist situation though, that's a nice tie-in. I'm very good at resisting unnecessary Renegade interrupts in general though. The only one that I never pass up is the Cathka one. Ones that I won't be passing up anymore after my first playthrough are the Elnora one and the headbutt on Tuchanka.

Out of curiosity, which ME2 squadmates will tell you to keep the Collector base? Because neither Tali, Thane, Grunt nor Miranda (obviously) have told me to keep it. I agree it's silly for them to suddenly change their minds afterwards though.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 03 juin 2010 - 04:05 .

[Collider]

Alexine wrote...

Aww, get well soon, Buggirl!

For Garrus discussion time! Since we all love Garrus here (who doesn't?  ), is there anything at all that you didn't like about Garrus? Any of his flaws that if removed would have made him a whole lot better? I'm not making this post to fuel Garrus-bashing, but I'm just curious to what people liked and not liked about Garrus.

Just a few comments he made in the elevator conversations in ME1. That's about it though. For every character there's been something I've disagreed with, anyway. Oh, and the collector base.

Modifié par Collider, 03 juin 2010 - 04:32 .

[Cerrydd]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Out of curiosity, which ME2 squadmates will tell you to keep the Collector base? Because neither Tali, Thane, Grunt nor Miranda (obviously) have told me to keep it. I agree it's silly for them to suddenly change their minds afterwards though.

Grunt and Zaeed tell you to keep it, because "when someone gives you a weapon, you don't check if it's dirty", or something along those lines. Garrus tells you destroying the base would be a waste of all the lives lost because of it. I think Legion also doesn't say something that doesn't fully reject saving the base.

And when you keep the base, everybody will question you if it was really the right choice .

Someone made a list of it, but I can't remember where.