693 réponses à ce sujet

[ZennExile]

It was gross. The original series was sweet when I was 10 though.

[WrexShepard]

ZennExile wrote...
The Original Post goes here but I don't want to hurt your eyes by quoting the whole thing.

OP, your post makes no sense. The issues you raise here actually DO make sense, or are completly subjective.

You also leave out things that REALLY make no sense, like in Jacob's loyalty mission, why does everyone use thermal clips if they've been stranded for 10 years, and clips were invented in the last 2? Why are there so many mechs if such mechs didn't see wide scale use until after the battle of the citadel?

Where did shepard's shuttle go when the collectors kidnap the crew?


Those things make no sense.

The addition of tangential story arcs is something that you may or may not like. As I said, this is subjective. It is not nonsense.

The mentions of dark energy collapsing a star are what is called "Chekhov's gun".

http://en.wikipedia....i/Chekhov's_gun

Basically if it is noted that a gun is present on a mantlepiece in the first act, it is a given it will be used sometime later. So Dark Energy will obviously come into play in ME3. But just because its impact is mysterious NOW does not mean it is nonsense.

In short, cool story bro.

[StingerSplash01]

What are your thoughts on my opinion of the WTF moments Zenn?

[VirtualAlex]

Not really sure why you are complaining about Thane and Samara... I mean they are the "best of breed" characters that operate a bit outside the law. Exactly the kind of people that you are looking for to perform the most difficult and dangerous mission. Just because they are not related to the story? Do you consider Jack or Grunt more related to the story with anything more than just running into them?

[Mondara]

OMG ZennExile LMAO

here you go...Try Reading Mass Effect: Revelation and then Try reading Mass Effect: Ascension

and then on July 27, 2010 Try reading Mass Effect: Retribution.....

But for crying out loud first try getting a life....

[ZennExile]

WrexShepard wrote...

ZennExile wrote...
The Original Post goes here but I don't want to hurt your eyes by quoting the whole thing.

OP, your post makes no sense. The issues you raise here actually DO make sense, or are completly subjective.

You also leave out things that REALLY make no sense, like in Jacob's loyalty mission, why does everyone use thermal clips if they've been stranded for 10 years, and clips were invented in the last 2? Why are there so many mechs if such mechs didn't see wide scale use until after the battle of the citadel?

Where did shepard's shuttle go when the collectors kidnap the crew?


Those things make no sense.

The addition of tangential story arcs is something that you may or may not like. As I said, this is subjective. It is not nonsense.

The mentions of dark energy collapsing a star are what is called "Chekhov's gun".

http://en.wikipedia....i/Chekhov's_gun

Basically if it is noted that a gun is present on a mantlepiece in the first act, it is a given it will be used sometime later. So Dark Energy will obviously come into play in ME3. But just because its impact is mysterious NOW does not mean it is nonsense.

In short, cool story bro.

tan·gen·tial 


1.pertaining to or of the nature of a tangent; being or moving in the direction of a tangent.
2.merely touching; slightly connected: tangential information.
3.divergent or digressive, as from a subject under consideration: tangential remarks.
4.tending to digress or to reply to questions obliquely

When the word of the day comes up it's important to both learn to spell it correctly AND examine its definition thoroughly so you don't accidentally use it in a context where it turns sense into nonsense.

I heart wiki too.

 smiley five

[ZennExile]

Mondara wrote...

OMG ZennExile LMAO
here you go...Try Reading Mass Effect: Revelation and then Try reading Mass Effect: Ascension
and then on July 27, 2010 Try reading Mass Effect: Retribution.....
But for crying out loud first try getting a life....

Yeah because the game followed Drew's book beyond name/location/scary badguy...

Life doth get itself?  no?

[Ashkeldir]

StingerSplash01 wrote...

Must admit never watched it, heard of it, read about it, never watched it.

Best TV series ever written, if you ask me.  But don't ask me, ask Seth Green  

[StingerSplash01]

Which is why he has an actor crush on tricia helfer i know

[ZennExile]

VirtualAlex wrote...

Not really sure why you are complaining about Thane and Samara... I mean they are the "best of breed" characters that operate a bit outside the law. Exactly the kind of people that you are looking for to perform the most difficult and dangerous mission. Just because they are not related to the story? Do you consider Jack or Grunt more related to the story with anything more than just running into them?

Doesn't that seem kinda lazy to you though?  I mean I could just as easily replaced Thane with Hulk Hogan brothah at it would be tied just as firmly to the story.

The reason it "doesn't have sense" is because Thane doesn't tie back into the story in any meaningful way.  The illusive man knows about this assassin guy so go find him.  There's nothing establishing him as the greatest assassin in the galaxy.  There is nothing bridging the gap between Thane's past and the overall story arc.  It's just lazy writing.   Bioware won it's fans over with depth.  This and many other character arcs in the game literally have zero depth.  Here's a dude.  He's good at stuff.  He can help you kill super bad guy.  Really?  Really?

That's the opposite of depth.  That's about as deep as an inbred genepool can get but really?  Come on now.

And yes Jack and Grunt tie into the story very well (though Jack's character makes very little sense at times...) Jack was part of Cerberus experiements.  She's directly tied to the organization you are working with.  Grunt is the result of Krogan insanity brought on by the genophage.  Okeer is the perfect mad scientist because he's both driven by righteous ambition and thoughts of galactic conquest.  Tank bred Krogan were fully introduced in the previous game in great detail.  Grunt ties directly into the story.

Thane doesn't and either does Samara.  Zaeed does but he's no more than the width of a human hair more deeply attached to the story.  All cool characters.  But kinda out of place without proper context.

I can see exactly what happened and I can justify it.  They took their characters to whiteboard and said lets make these characters awesome.  Ok now lets make the story based on these awesome characters.  It makes perfect sense how it happened at the design level and how they attempted to blend those characters into the story.

What doesn't make sense is why they would take that route in the first place.  Mass Effect was never supposed to be character centric.  It's supposed to be about the whole galaxy these characters live in.  Building ME2 based on the characters (that have little to nothing to do with the story) instead of letting ME2 tell the story of these characters... is backwards.  It's like if a story teller pulled out an adlib book and said ok yer turn and handed you the tab.

Sure you can "make" sense of it, but the idea is that without you to make it there is no sense.

Modifié par ZennExile, 20 février 2010 - 03:16 .

[StingerSplash01]

Then again "Thane" was almost explicitly created in order to fill "the attractive alien femshep LI" as the devs have stated.

[Ashkeldir]

ZennExile wrote...
The reason it "doesn't have sense" is because Thane doesn't tie back into the story in any meaningful way.  The illusive man knows about this assassin guy so go find him.  There's nothing establishing him as the greatest assassin in the galaxy.  There is nothing bridging the gap between Thane's past and the overall story arc.  It's just lazy writing.   Bioware won it's fans over with depth.  This and many other character arcs in the game literally have zero depth.  Here's a dude.  He's good at stuff.  He can help you kill super bad guy.  Really? 

[Ashkeldir]

For a quick comparison, look at Dragon Age's party member characters. Their side stories aren't so much relevant to the 'arc' itself, but that doesn't matter, because their side stories are there to give you something extra to do to earn their trust/respect/friendship, etc. However, every character ties in with the story in a meaningful way - they are tied to the history and the lore of the game. In ME2, that is sorely lacking except in a couple of instances. The mention of Zaeed being the co-founder of the Blue Suns is only relevant insofar as we find out he was the co-founder of the Blue Suns. So what? Depthless...

[StingerSplash01]

I can't believe I'm about to say this but Alex, You Just Got Magic Missiled:wizard:

[Midnight_Thirty]

ZennExile wrote...

tan·gen·tial 


1.pertaining to or of the nature of a tangent; being or moving in the direction of a tangent.
2.merely touching; slightly connected: tangential information.
3.divergent or digressive, as from a subject under consideration: tangential remarks.
4.tending to digress or to reply to questions obliquely

When the word of the day comes up it's important to both learn to spell it correctly AND examine its definition thoroughly so you don't accidentally use it in a context where it turns sense into nonsense.

Actually he used tangential correctly. When WrexShepard said that there are tangential stories, he is saying that each character has their own line, but they all intersect at a certain point (each at their own point) with the main plot line. Each character has their own personal story arc, but at some point they intersect with your own and become involved with the main story. That is tangential Every form of literature has this, and it's a part of great storytelling. You need to specify that your beef is with the episodic fashion in which the plot plays out through the game. (unless in fact that was your initial complaint.)

In the defense of WrexShepard, he used it correctly.

Turd toting retard signing out.

[Obadiah]

Ashkeldir wrote...
....
The mention of Zaeed being the co-founder of the Blue Suns is only relevant insofar as we find out he was the co-founder of the Blue Suns. So what? Depthless...

Excellent point. I got the Zaeed DLC on my 2nd playthrough and couldn't believe the writers put that story in there by wouldn't allow you to talk to him about it afterwards. Boooo...

[ZennExile]

Midnight_Thirty wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

tan·gen·tial 


1.pertaining to or of the nature of a tangent; being or moving in the direction of a tangent.
2.merely touching; slightly connected: tangential information.
3.divergent or digressive, as from a subject under consideration: tangential remarks.
4.tending to digress or to reply to questions obliquely

When the word of the day comes up it's important to both learn to spell it correctly AND examine its definition thoroughly so you don't accidentally use it in a context where it turns sense into nonsense.

Actually he used tangential correctly. When WrexShepard said that there are tangential stories, he is saying that each character has their own line, but they all intersect at a certain point (each at their own point) with the main plot line. Each character has their own personal story arc, but at some point they intersect with your own and become involved with the main story. That is tangential Every form of literature has this, and it's a part of great storytelling. You need to specify that your beef is with the episodic fashion in which the plot plays out through the game. (unless in fact that was your initial complaint.)

In the defense of WrexShepard, he used it correctly.

Turd toting retard signing out.

Correctly if I would have suggested they were lightly connected, but I am suggesting they are disconnected and forced together later.  So in opposite world you win.

And you fergot the "likes asses" part.  That is what makes it classic.

[StingerSplash01]

I believe that the only reason why this ^ (pointing to Obadiah) ^ occurs is because Zaheed does't have a Dialogue tree, and is probably because they didn't have the VA for very long or didn't have time to record all his lines, that and the leaks about the DLC may have forced them to release it on Launch Day when they may not have been planning to.

[Ashkeldir]

Revelation was a novel. ME was a novel. Ascension was a novel. ME2 feels like a bunch of unrelated short stories written by different authors... When I buy a what I believe to be a novel, I expect to get a novel. Don't think I could have found a shorter way to summarize my thoughts on this entire matter.

[Greenhelm]

Compelling tale, chap.

[ZennExile]

Greenhelm wrote...

Compelling tale, chap.

Establish douchebaggery, /check.

[Ashkeldir]

Midnight_Thirty wrote...
he is saying that each character has their own line, but they all intersect at a certain point (each at their own point) with the main plot line. Each character has their own personal story arc, but at some point they intersect with your own and become involved with the main story

But for most of them, that's the only thing tying them to the main story - the fact that they have joined you...  Pretty weak, you don't think?

[Greenhelm]

ZennExile wrote...

Greenhelm wrote...

Compelling tale, chap.

Establish douchebaggery, /check.

Establish nerd rage, /check.

[Ashkeldir]

StingerSplash01 wrote...

I believe that the only reason why this ^ (pointing to Obadiah) ^ occurs is because Zaheed does't have a Dialogue tree, and is probably because they didn't have the VA for very long or didn't have time to record all his lines, that and the leaks about the DLC may have forced them to release it on Launch Day when they may not have been planning to.

Consider the fact that they delayed the DAO DLC for Return to Ostagar by several weeks, and your theory holds no water. Yea, I know, not exactly the same company - no agreement with Microsoft, blah blah...  But still, the same company...  

[Midnight_Thirty]

ZennExile wrote...

Correctly if I would have suggested they were lightly connected, but I am suggesting they are disconnected and forced together later.  So in opposite world you win.

Well the fact that The Illusive Man hand picked these certain individuals to help you on your mission, that means the intersection is meaningful. He pulled dossiers for the most powerful people in the galaxy to assist you. He did not know in what way you might need them, or why you would need them. He only knew that if you were going into the unknown you must take every precaution to be successful. You may not like the intersection, or the way they are put in the story, but they are relevant to the overall story arc.

Maybe it is a weak plot, one that requires a lot of imagination to build on your own, but until we see the finale for ME3 we can't really judge if we think the tangential characters are a waste or not.