252 réponses à ce sujet

[Devidose]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Sn0wst0rm wrote...

Devidose wrote...

Side point, Star Trek gets around this, (just), but eventually going with an idea that many of the sapients are either from the same overall genetic material, or were mod'd in some way by a founder race, one of the ST:TNG eps, can't remember which, and don't want to go looking for it atm.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chase_%28Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation%29

That was actually one of my favorite TNG episodes. At the time of TOS, however, Spock's heritage was not explainable, it was there as an allegory for the conflicts that the children of interracial couples had to face.

Ah, yes. One of the episodes the producers of Star Trek: Enterprise obviously hadn't seen, what with the whole T'Pol/Trip thing. In Star Trek, that single episode is the entire basis of why radically different races can all interbreed.

It was said the first hybrid child in ST:E had complications, but that she had
existed, allowed Flox to understand how to do wizard stuff to allow it
to happen in the future. The alternative future Enterprise in the Xindi
arc as well has a human/vulcan ybrid, that was again because Flox
worked out how to do it.
So the basis might be there, but the genetic drift is still quite large between the races, but similar enough that they can just pull it off.
Which again still isn't the issue here with Quarians/Turians and everyone else.

[Korivs]

cheezus someone just ask bioware and be done iwht this >_>

[PhoenixGate]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...


Junk DNA from both species would likely be dropped. For example, in human genetics the small toe is no longer needed for balance. Such genetics would likely be lost to allow for a better mix which would be a compromise between the genetics. The new child, for example, would likely have four fingers on each hand (including the index finger and thumb) and four toes on each foot.

Okay, this is what bugs me the most.  Junk DNA will not be dropped.  There's a reason its there, mostly becuase if a particular gene sequence is neither beneficial to a species nor is it harmful evolution doesn't bother to sort it out.    Like the little toe you mentioned, it still provides some balance and is not actively preventing humans from walking correctly, so it stays where it is unless someone actively engineers it out. 

Also, you have completely ignored the fact that just plain old human DNA can combine in some pretty bizzare and sometimes fatal ways.  People born with no arms or legs, malformed second heads, hair-lips, clubfoots, transgender individuals, individuals with reproductive organs from both sexes, extra digits, and down syndrom are some prevalent examples.  This is accenuated in hybrids of any kind, a fully viable hybrid that is a perfect mix of both parents, or in fact any hybrid lacking health concerns of any kind, is so incredibly rare its damn ridiculous. 

And I know its been mentioned repeatedly, but Quarians have DIFFERENT DNA FROM HUMANS.  Go to medical school specifically for genetics buddy, and then come back and tell me how it might be even remotely realistic that  a hybrid would be able to rear its dysfunctional head anywhere but in your strange little fantasy.  Its a well thought out fantasy, but its still a fantasy.  Better luck next time.

[Sigma Tauri]

Modifié par monkeycamoran, 10 septembre 2010 - 04:57 .

[Kataklyzmic]

Bringing real biology into an argument about a matter in a FICTIONAL universe is pretty funny, hell lets bring real physics into it too and just completely eradicate the ME universe by arguing over how eezo can't be real.

I'll admit i cheated on Ashley with Tali and am now a tali fanboy but the last thing i wanna see in ME is a little blue monster of nature running around my Normady while i'm being pelted by reapers, we all saw what happened to the first Normandy, now imagine little Shepli trapped in an escape pod drifting through space or worse; Shep doesn't have time for kids and the life is too dangerous anyways.

The Alternative to that is that you have a kid and either:

A.) Tali leaves the Normandy to raise it, ergo Tali gone from squad :|
-or-
B.) You just be horrible parents and ditch the little abomination on some alliance colony to be raised by foster parents and most likely experimented on by alliance or some other group, that kid would be worth a lot of money being the first hybrid and all.

Although it would be funny to find out that (depending on your romance in ME1) you have an illegitimate child with either Liara or Ashley.
Love Triangle + Basterd child = ?
it'd be a funny little consequence of CHEATING!

Modifié par Kataklyzmic, 04 mars 2010 - 09:00 .

[cruc1al]

Kataklyzmic wrote...

Bringing real biology into an argument about a matter in a FICTIONAL universe is pretty funny, hell lets bring real physics into it too and just completely eradicate the ME universe by arguing over how eezo can't be real.

The developers have already brought real biology and real science into the ME universe, we're just building on that. Why should we assume that something we don't know about the ME universe is not as it would be in our universe? If we assumed that, then all the attempts by the devs to provide us with actual plausible explanations are completely redundant.

The issue with mixing human DNA with quarian or turian DNA is that they're just not compatible, period. The human protein synthesis machinery produces proteins that are three-dimensionally mirror images of the proteins produced by the quarian and turian protein synthesis machineries. Those mirror images cannot be turned around their axes to become the other, because they don't have a plane of symmetry. That's called chirality. The proteins produced as a result of quarian or turian protein synthesis only work in the context of turian and quarian physiology. There's absolutely no way you can get around that fact, sci-fi or not. Science fiction is fictional science, not fantasy.

Modifié par cruc1al, 04 mars 2010 - 09:11 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

I tell Joker to keep the engine running anytime we visit Illium in case crazy Liara found out about Miranda.

[PhoenixGate]

cruc1al wrote...

Kataklyzmic wrote...

Bringing real biology into an argument about a matter in a FICTIONAL universe is pretty funny, hell lets bring real physics into it too and just completely eradicate the ME universe by arguing over how eezo can't be real.

The developers have already brought real biology and real science into the ME universe, we're just building on that. Why should we assume that something we don't know about the ME universe is not as it would be in our universe? If we assumed that, then all the attempts by the devs to provide us with actual plausible explanations are completely redundant.

The issue with mixing human DNA with quarian or turian DNA is that they're just not compatible, period. The human protein synthesis machinery produces proteins that are three-dimensionally mirror images of the proteins produced by the quarian and turian protein synthesis machineries. Those mirror images cannot be turned around their axes to become the other, because they don't have a plane of symmetry. That's called chirality. The proteins produced as a result of quarian or turian protein synthesis only work in the context of turian and quarian physiology. There's absolutely no way you can get around that fact, sci-fi or not. Science fiction is fictional science, not fantasy.

Thank you very much, that was exactly what I was thinking when I wrote my original post I just hadn't done enough reading to get really specific about it.

[PhoenixGate]

monkeycamoran wrote...

Go to medical school for genetics, buddy? What the **** is that comment?

The reason I said that is because the OP was (at least to me) all about the possibility of a human-Quarian hybrid in ME 3.  Like it has been stated repeatedly, BioWare created Turians and Quarians with completely different DNA from humans and other life in the galaxy.  They will not be going against everything they have created in order to provide this possiblity.  There's a reason its a Sci Fi game and not a Fantasy.

[Kataklyzmic]

@cruc1al
You lost me in the second paragraph lol,
Alls i'm tryin to say is that these hypotheses are based on OUR understanding of biology. While ME biology and our biology share similar traits you just cant mix the two. They are just too alien(badum tis). and arguing over the reality of it is rather pointless anyways because in the end its all just "lol cause Bioware said so." If they wanted it to happen they could. But don't hold your breath on it.

Modifié par Kataklyzmic, 04 mars 2010 - 09:37 .

[Sn0wst0rm]

She's dead Jim.

[Crazy_Cat_Lady]

ReconTeam wrote...

I tell Joker to keep the engine running anytime we visit Illium in case crazy Liara found out about Miranda.

This.  I brought Miranda with me to Illium just to see if those two would get catty....I was sadly disappointed.

[PhoenixGate]

Kataklyzmic wrote...



@cruc1al

You lost me in the second paragraph lol,

Alls i'm tryin to say is that these hypotheses are based on OUR understanding of biology. While ME biology and our biology share similar traits you just cant mix the two. They are just too alien(badum tis). and arguing over the reality of it is rather pointless anyways because in the end its all just "lol cause Bioware said so." If they wanted it to happen they could. But don't hold your breath on it.

That is the underlying argument for everything ME related. And in point of fact everything BioWare puts in ME in terms of biology is based on real life biology, that's why its halfway believable.



But anyway, Sn0wst0orm has a very good point if I've interpreted the statement correctly; the horse is dead, so quit beating it.

[cruc1al]

Kataklyzmic wrote...

@cruc1al
You lost me in the second paragraph lol,
Alls i'm tryin to say is that these hypotheses are based on OUR understanding of biology. While ME biology and our biology share similar traits you just cant mix the two. They are just too alien(badum tis). and arguing over the reality of it is rather pointless anyways because in the end its all just "lol cause Bioware said so." If they wanted it to happen they could. But don't hold your breath on it.

What I was saying in the second paragraph was that OUR understanding of biology is quite enough to completely discount any possibility of cross-species hybrids between humans and quarians/turians. It's not that I'm extrapolating our understanding to lengths it couldn't be plausibly extrapolated - all I'm doing is using what we know about real life biology and the alien biology given to us by the devs to make informed conclusions.

I don't have any problem with Element Zero, because it's the basis of the whole ME universe and I'm willing to imagine that it does exist because the devs said so. But if the devs suddenly make human-quarian hybrids possible, I'd eat my hat, because the only possible way for that to happen is this: Human x Quarian --> *magic poof* --> hybrid.

EDIT: in other words, a finding that could make human-quarian hybrids work would throw the current science of reproductive biology out of the window.

Modifié par cruc1al, 04 mars 2010 - 10:56 .

[Ryzaki]

...I came in this thread expecting it to be another RPG vs TPS war....*quickly flees*

*comes back* Though human/quarian hybrid sounds ridculous. I mean for pete's sake we don't even know what the blasted quarians look like yet!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 mars 2010 - 10:55 .

[the_one_54321]

If BioWare actually puts cross-species births in their game, I will completely denounce Mass Effect for it's stupidity.



A'sari are interesting because they don't even reproduce with their partners. They make copies of their DNA and use it for improvised genetic variation. That's a neat concept. But all A'sari children are A'sari. Inter-species hybridization is a stupid idea.

[the_one_54321]

cruc1al wrote...
Human x Quarian --> *magic poof* --> hybrid.

Bioware's justification formula:

1. Human
2. Quarian
3. Sex
4. ?????
5. Profit! 

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

For a hybrid that's lab dna alteration to make two species compatible.Then the next problem would the hybrid be able to reproduce or more likely be sterile.Unless it's something like a lion/tiger with the hybrid being a liger.

www.hemmy.net/2006/06/19/top-10-hybrid-animals/

[KenLyns]

Hybrid you say?...

300x169http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/6089/homosari06.jpg[/img]

Modifié par KenLyns, 04 mars 2010 - 11:14 .

[the_one_54321]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...
For a hybrid that's lab dna alteration to make two species compatible.Then the next problem would the hybrid be able to reproduce or more likely be sterile.Unless it's something like a lion/tiger with the hybrid being a liger.

www.hemmy.net/2006/06/19/top-10-hybrid-animals/

That functions with species from the same planet because we all have comparable DNA structure, having all developed from the same origing (earth). It would not scale to beings from completely alien origins. More specifically on the Liger (and as soon as I read this topic I knew someone would bring it up) Tigers and Lions are closely related enough (ie share an ancestor somewhere in their evolutionary past) and are thus able reproduce this way.

[Sigma Tauri]

PhoenixGate wrote...
The reason I said that is because the OP was (at least to me) all about the possibility of a human-Quarian hybrid in ME 3.  Like it has been stated repeatedly, BioWare created Turians and Quarians with completely different DNA from humans and other life in the galaxy.  They will not be going against everything they have created in order to provide this possiblity.  There's a reason its a Sci Fi game and not a Fantasy.

Well, to nitpick, Bioware created those races to have right-handed amino acids, not DNA with a different chirality. It bothers me that Bioware knew what chirality was, but someone there didn't do enough research if they called it "dextro-DNA."

But, I understand how the OP insists on its possibility, while everyone else reasons why it won't work. As someone here mentioned, it's basically trying to fit a square peg through a round hole, or two races with vastly different biochemistries are not likely to breed. Still, I don't feel as opposed to possibility of a hybrid as everyone else because a lot of natural phenomena in the ME universe are twisted to make its portrayal less mundane. I can also live with creating any possibility within sci-fi so long as it adheres to its own rules for consistency or verisimilitude. What annoys me more is how rudimentary the OP's knowledge in biology is that makes his idea an unassailable model of epic fail.

I don't care enough to stroke my ego to tell him he's wrong on his facts, but if he just knew more, he can make some believable and entertaining **** up. And usually that's more fun to read!

And about the med school comment thing.  Unless you're a genius who got a perfect score in the MCATs, you know applying is a hassle. And because of that, it's weird how lightly it's provided.

Modifié par monkeycamoran, 04 mars 2010 - 11:29 .

[Sn0wst0rm]

Does anyone bother to read through threads before they post? Stick meet dead horse.

TLDR:

Modifié par Sn0wst0rm, 04 mars 2010 - 11:44 .

[khaos974]

Sn0wst0rm wrote...

Does anyone bother to read through threads before they post? Stick meet dead horse.

TLDR:

So very true! So many detailed posts have already been written by you, Uberpenguin and myself on the subject.

[staldore13]

KenLyns wrote...

Hybrid you say?...

300x169http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/6089/homosari06.jpg[/img]

were did you find that picture what is it of
is it a mod or something

[AventuroLegendary]

Actually, shepard isn't just human, he's an undead human. Maybe during lazarus, cerberus did something to his... NVM. I'm a chemist and a biologist (honors highschool) and despit tali's dextro DNA, Enhancement of human dna is possible to create viable offspring.