252 réponses à ce sujet

[tiberius_adamantine]

Sn0wst0rm wrote...

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

Sn0wst0rm wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/1299220/5#1401384

Actually, it is what I have been talking about. Im glad that he had the time to educate you further, was hoping that it wouldnt be necessary. I never took credit for his post. Also, what he presented to you about amino acids is exactly why it won't work, and there is no way around that.

All you did was state was state what was already known. Everyone knows about there
being different amino acids. However, when asked to justify your claim, you couldn't.
You think that I'm ignoring the facts, I am not. I will try to find a way to explain to the
"science" people how this could work. However, I don't think you should ignore
the devices in the game that could make this work.

If you cannot relate what he wrote to what I said you either recieved a poor education, or have an IQ worthy of sterilization.

you know, I'm glad not everyone on the forums is like you. What I said is that you didn't/wouldn't
explain why that is a problem.  He actually bothered to explain things. If you want to debate a
point right, you have to validate your position.  As for your attempts at insults, do everyone
a favor and just stop, I'll try to do the same. The forums don't need more of this kind of talk,
so I think we should both give it a rest and stay polite.

[Sn0wst0rm]

I made the assumption that you understood basic biology; I really did not want to spend the time to spell it all out. I could have been more diplomatic, but your responses frustrated the hell out of me. You keep claiming that it is still possible for it to work; facts remain facts whether you know them or believe them. From a technical standpoint, it is just not even close to feasible with most species, and just plain impossible with Turians and Quarians. From a story standpoint, there is no reason to include it this far into the story when it is illegal to attempt, especially when no references have been made to any attempts to do so. What you are asking for is fanservice, by definintion. Not just any fanservice, but fanservice that requires changing things that Bioware has already established in the universe, which cheapens the storytelling much more than adding an impossible baby as a footnote would enrich it.

Modifié par Sn0wst0rm, 25 février 2010 - 05:31 .

[C6541]

I think there a few Tali-fans that needs to read about the following:

Genomes
Evolution
Reproduction
Chirality (levorotatory and dextrorotatory)

For people that don't understand, a molecule can have different rotations while retaining the same structure. For example methamphetamine comes in dextro and levo forms, the dextro form is a controlled stimulant while the levo form is an OTC nasal decongestant (levmetamfetamine), this is because the rotation is just as important to the body as the molecular arrangement. For example if you take a key and make a mirror image form of it, it will not fit into the keyhole intended for the original one. So knowing what we know about reproduction, two sets of genetic information with opposing chirality is not going to cause pregancy. Not to mention we don't even know what and how many chromosomes the quarians have.

Modifié par C6541, 25 février 2010 - 06:05 .

[Landline]

I love Tali and all, but having an cross bred baby with her would be pushing the bounds of stupidity.

Did I say pushing the bounds of stupidity? What I really meant was it would be flying over the bounds of stupidity on a rocket powered bathtub wearing nothing but a rainbow coloured necktie and party hat while singing the lyrics to a Linkin Park song.

Modifié par Landline, 25 février 2010 - 06:10 .

[tiberius_adamantine]

Sn0wst0rm wrote...

I made the assumption that you understood basic biology; I really did not want to spend the time to spell it all out. I could have been more diplomatic, but your responses frustrated the hell out of me. You keep claiming that it is still possible for it to work; facts remain facts whether you know them or believe them. From a technical standpoint, it is just not even close to feasible with most species, and just plain impossible with Turians and Quarians. From a story standpoint, there is no reason to include it this far into the story when it is illegal to attempt, especially when no references have been made to any attempts to do so. What you are asking for is fanservice, by definintion. Not just any fanservice, but fanservice that requires changing things that Bioware has already established in the universe, which cheapens the storytelling much more than adding an impossible baby as a footnote would enrich it.

Not really polite, but whatever. I still do think it is possible, although it will be more difficult
to achieve than I would have hoped. Again, doesn't really have to change what is established
in terms of ME's universe. The possibility is there, but maybe not naturally. Legal becomes an
issue afterwards, but not until then. I disagree that it would cheapen the story, a well written
element is never cheap.

[Uberpenguin7]

Let's assume a laboratory setting and take sex out of the equation, so we avoid the whole sperm finding the egg problem and the sperm not having the correct equipment to borrow into the egg. In this setting you are able to sequence the genome and understand what most parts of the DNA do for both species. Now it's time for another Bio-lesson folks: GENETICS!

DNA is the code for all life. What does that mean? You have 4 nucleotides that make up this code, Adenine, Thymine, Cytosine, and Guanine. A bonds with T and C bonds with G. These bonds make up the rungs in the ladder that is DNA. In order to make a protein, the DNA is unraveled by proteins, and transcribed into RNA which replaces Thymine with Uracil. Very important: Only one side of the DNA is used for transcription. The other side serves other purposes like proof-reading the primary strand and making sure bad things don’t bid to it and screw up the code. This RNA is then read by a unit called a Ribosome. It reads the RNA like a ticker tape and ‘finds’ and binds the correct amino acids together in the sequence that the RNA presents.
Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins. Think of amino acids as words. They are strung together to make sentences, a poly-peptide chain. This chain folds on itself, making a protein sub unit. Think of this as a paragraph. These paragraphs join together to make a paper, a full protein.

Now, back to the lab. We have this problem of chirality, the direction that the DNA spins in. As I stated before, Quarians are dextro based, meaning theirs spins right handedly. Humans are levo based, spinning left handedly. So, let’s work our fancy super science and spin the DNA the other direction. This will take an amazing leap of genetics the likes of which I can’t even comprehend, but for the sake of hypothetical, we will. So now we’ve spun the human DNA backwards so that it will mesh with Quarian DNA. The next problem is chromosome count.

Each species has a specific number of chromosomes. Humans have 22 pairs of autosomal (non sex) chromosomes and one pair of sex chromosomes (X and either X or Y). I have no idea how many pairs of chromosomes a quarian has. A chimpanzee, our closest relative on earth has 24 pairs. When cells divide to become gametes (sex cells), the chromosomes are de-paired and mixed around so each cell only has half the number of chromosomes. That way, when the gamete recombines with another sex cell, they will have 23 pairs again. Without equal pairs of chromosomes, the possible fetus won’t form correctly. And even if it does, it would most likely be sterile.

Lets make another leap in genetic science and say that we are able to dice up chromosomes, replace them with others and more or less equalize the chromosome count. You’ll be changing the species by doing that, so that it really isn’t either human or quarian, but let us say that it is possible. Now we have to return to a previous issue. When we reversed the chirality of the human DNA, we also reversed the side that is read by the proteins. The problem is, this other side contains no useful information. Yes, it will make proteins, but these proteins won’t do anything. Their form wouldn’t be recognized by either quarian or human. In order to make genetic sense, you’d have to completely rewrite the base pair sequence. And at that point, you would cease to have any information that would be Sheppard related. You are rebuilding the genetic ladder. It may still be made out of the particles that make up Sheppard, but the identity of Sheppard comes from the order of the base pairs, not the base pairs themselves.

Sadly, this means no Tali/Sheppard hybrid. You’d be creating another sentient being that is neither human, nor quarian but something else and it would not have any of the traits of one of the donor species.

This one was done solely by memory. If there’s anything wrong, please tell me, this will be my profession and I can’t really afford to be wrong.

TLDR: We have two different puzzles and though we can mix the puzzles up and carve the pieces with an exacto-knife, the picture that comes out will be meaningless an incomprehensible.

Modifié par Uberpenguin7, 25 février 2010 - 06:21 .

[C6541]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

Sn0wst0rm wrote...

I made the assumption that you understood basic biology; I really did not want to spend the time to spell it all out. I could have been more diplomatic, but your responses frustrated the hell out of me. You keep claiming that it is still possible for it to work; facts remain facts whether you know them or believe them. From a technical standpoint, it is just not even close to feasible with most species, and just plain impossible with Turians and Quarians. From a story standpoint, there is no reason to include it this far into the story when it is illegal to attempt, especially when no references have been made to any attempts to do so. What you are asking for is fanservice, by definintion. Not just any fanservice, but fanservice that requires changing things that Bioware has already established in the universe, which cheapens the storytelling much more than adding an impossible baby as a footnote would enrich it.

Not really polite, but whatever. I still do think it is possible, although it will be more difficult
to achieve than I would have hoped. Again, doesn't really have to change what is established
in terms of ME's universe. The possibility is there, but maybe not naturally. Legal becomes an
issue afterwards, but not until then. I disagree that it would cheapen the story, a well written
element is never cheap.

Science is against you. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but this game is science fiction, not a galatic soap opera.

Modifié par C6541, 25 février 2010 - 06:16 .

[Uberpenguin7]

An extremely relevant comic to the discussion above.



http://xkcd.com/154/



I hope you all enjoy XKCD as much as I do.

[Sn0wst0rm]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

Sn0wst0rm wrote...

I made the assumption that you understood basic biology; I really did not want to spend the time to spell it all out. I could have been more diplomatic, but your responses frustrated the hell out of me. You keep claiming that it is still possible for it to work; facts remain facts whether you know them or believe them. From a technical standpoint, it is just not even close to feasible with most species, and just plain impossible with Turians and Quarians. From a story standpoint, there is no reason to include it this far into the story when it is illegal to attempt, especially when no references have been made to any attempts to do so. What you are asking for is fanservice, by definintion. Not just any fanservice, but fanservice that requires changing things that Bioware has already established in the universe, which cheapens the storytelling much more than adding an impossible baby as a footnote would enrich it.

Not really polite, but whatever. I still do think it is possible, although it will be more difficult
to achieve than I would have hoped. Again, doesn't really have to change what is established
in terms of ME's universe. The possibility is there, but maybe not naturally. Legal becomes an
issue afterwards, but not until then. I disagree that it would cheapen the story, a well written
element is never cheap.

1) No, not maybe, DEFINATLY not naturally.

2) Changing what they have written in the codex in regards to the Amino Acids of Turians and Quarians to make what you want possible is by definition changing the facts in the universe.

3) It is already a legal issue, because it is illegal. Are they going to ignore the codex entry on it being illegal and just make it happen? That sounds like a cop out to me.

4) In order for this to be a well written element to the story, it would have needed to be planned from the beginning of the trilogy. Subtle hints about illegal research into species hybridization, and main story involvement. Instead, from the beginning, the Turians and Quarians have been Dextro-Amino Acid based. NPCs mention that it makes their food incompatible, as all the organisms on their home world are dextro amino acid based. There is a codex entry about how it is illegal to combine DNA, and there is no mention or reference to experiments outside the law. That would make it a poorly written story element. Therefore, adding it because some people want Tali-Shep and Garrus-Shep babies would be the worst kind of fanservice.

5) My parents always told me that a person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still. I can tell that you really want reality to side with your case. However, it does not. I posted that we couldn't make babies with Turians or Quarians due to the dextro and levo amino acid issue. You thought that you had addressed this in your initial post, and dismissed me. It wasn't until Uberpenguin7 posted an explanation of dextro vs levo that you started to concede that your idea was becoming more unlikely. In reality, it was always unlikely, you just did not have the background information on amino acids.

6) It is possible that a giant Buddha statue is in orbit about Venus. It is possible that I live off eating diamonds and poop Semi-trucks. Possibility is not probability. Possibility is not plausibility. Neither of these things are probable or plausible.

Edit: Spelling.

Modifié par Sn0wst0rm, 25 février 2010 - 04:13 .

[Sn0wst0rm]

Uberpenguin7 wrote...

An extremely relevant comic to the discussion above.

http://xkcd.com/154/

I hope you all enjoy XKCD as much as I do.

XKCD ftw!

However, since the developers have altered design due to feedback from fans already, I feel obligated challenge things such as this. It might not matter, but I feel obligated to say something regardless.

Modifié par Sn0wst0rm, 25 février 2010 - 07:30 .

[tiberius_adamantine]

Sn0wst0rm wrote...

1) No, not maybe, DEFINATLY not naturally.

2) Changing what they have written in the codex in regards to the Amino Acids of Turians and Quarians to make what you want possible is by definition changing the facts in the universe.

3) It is already a legal issue, because it is illegal. Are they going to ignore the codex entry on it being illegal and just make it happen? That sounds like a cop out to me.

4) In order for this to be a well written element to the story, it would have needed to be planned from the beginning of the trilogy. Subtle hints about illegal research into species hybridization, and main story involvement. Instead, from the beginning, the Turians and Quarians have been Dextro-Amino Acid based. NPCs mention that it makes their food incompatible, as all the organisms on their home world are dextro amino acid based. There is a codex entry about how it is illegal to combine DNA, and there is no mention or reference to experiments outside the law. That would make it a poorly written story element. Therefore, adding it because some people want Tali-Shep and Garrus-Shep babies would be the worst kind of fanservice.

5) My parents always told me that a person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still. I can tell that you really want reality to side with your case. However, it does not. I posted that we couldn't make babies with Turians or Quarians due to the dextro and levo amino acid issue. You thought that you had addressed this in your initial post, and dismissed me. It wasn't until Uberpenguin7 posted an explanation of dextro vs levo that you started to concede that your idea was becoming more unlikely. In reality, it was always unlikely, you just did not have the background information on amino acids.

6) It is possible that a giant Buddha statue is in orbit about Venus. It is possible that I live off eating diamonds and poop Semi-trucks. Possibility is not probability. Possibility is not plausibility. Neither of these things are probable or plausible.

Edit: Spelling.

Actually, you seem to be mistaken about a few things. First, I never suggested changing turians
and quarians to have levo-based amino acids. I asked about possibly altering the reproductive
material in the parents to allow for a better fusion.There are experiments outside of the law, seeing
as I highly doubt it is legal to clone an army of modified clones, recreate the rachni, grow organs
inside of people, ect. The council and the alliance seem to have enough trouble policing within
their borders, and there is much that isn't covered by their jurisdiction. The law also likely has
loopholes within it, after all, the issue of hybrid children hasn't come up yet. By current known
methods it is has a very low chance of success, none naturally but low chance artificially.
I've been talking with Uberpenguin7, so it really seems like there isn't yet a known natural
way to make this work, but it is still science-fiction. Regardless of how much anyone thinks
they know, there is always more to learn, will always be more to learn. I am developing
an idea for this into the story, one that will work with the existing flow.

[Sn0wst0rm]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

Actually, you seem to be mistaken about a few things. First, I never suggested changing turians
and quarians to have levo-based amino acids. I asked about possibly altering the reproductive
material in the parents to allow for a better fusion.There are experiments outside of the law, seeing
as I highly doubt it is legal to clone an army of modified clones, recreate the rachni, grow organs
inside of people, ect. The council and the alliance seem to have enough trouble policing within
their borders, and there is much that isn't covered by their jurisdiction. The law also likely has
loopholes within it, after all, the issue of hybrid children hasn't come up yet. By current known
methods it is has a very low chance of success, none naturally but low chance artificially.
I've been talking with Uberpenguin7, so it really seems like there isn't yet a known natural
way to make this work, but it is still science-fiction. Regardless of how much anyone thinks
they know, there is always more to learn, will always be more to learn. I am developing
an idea for this into the story, one that will work with the existing flow.

All of the genetic engineering that takes place in the game is in-species. What you are talking about is not, the combination of any species by bioengineering is illegal, and the combination that your argument originally focused on is contraindicated (this word means there is lots of evidence to the contrary) by the codex entries on the Quarians, Turians, and dialog from NPCs in the games (Listen to the Quarian in the club on Illium). Uberpenguin7's post on DNA provides further explanation on why combination of other levo amino acid based species is also rather unlikely, and supports what I was trying to convey to you in my second post. I never said you directly suggested changing turians and quarians to have levo-based amino acids, but it is what would have to happen to make what you want feasible. If there were loopholes in the law, they would have been exploited previously, and that was my meaning regarding previous mentions (and how there really are not any). I guess my point here is that the very fact that you need to write around things already established in the ME Universe (and science) just to make a hybrid baby work is exactly why it would just be tacked on, poorly written, fanservice. There just is not a way around that. Feel free to try, but if your original post is an indication of the methods you intend to use to make it work out, keep it to fan fiction please. If children need to be involved in the future of interspecies couples, adopting a child is a far more elegant solution.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/1299220/4#1382697

Modifié par Sn0wst0rm, 25 février 2010 - 10:06 .

[Gill Kaiser]

There are so many logical fallacies in the OP that I can't even bring myself to point them out.

[Sn0wst0rm]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

There are so many logical fallacies in the OP that I can't even bring myself to point them out.

I know what you mean, it hurts my brain. I came into this thread assuming that the OP would have some knowledge of basic biochemistry. He obviously needs to learn more about biology. Some classes in philosophy, especially logic, and argument structure would do wonders as well.

Modifié par Sn0wst0rm, 25 février 2010 - 11:47 .

[tiberius_adamantine]

Sn0wst0rm wrote...

All of the genetic engineering that takes place in the game is in-species. What you are talking about is not, the combination of any species by bioengineering is illegal, and the combination that your argument originally focused on is contraindicated (this word means there is lots of evidence to the contrary) by the codex entries on the Quarians, Turians, and dialog from NPCs in the games (Listen to the Quarian in the club on Illium). Uberpenguin7's post on DNA provides further explanation on why combination of other levo amino acid based species is also rather unlikely, and supports what I was trying to convey to you in my second post. I never said you directly suggested changing turians and quarians to have levo-based amino acids, but it is what would have to happen to make what you want feasible. If there were loopholes in the law, they would have been exploited previously, and that was my meaning regarding previous mentions (and how there really are not any). I guess my point here is that the very fact that you need to write around things already established in the ME Universe (and science) just to make a hybrid baby work is exactly why it would just be tacked on, poorly written, fanservice. There just is not a way around that. Feel free to try, but if your original post is an indication of the methods you intend to use to make it work out, keep it to fan fiction please. If children need to be involved in the future of interspecies couples, adopting a child is a far more elegant solution.

Look, you clearly need to chill out a bit. I'm sure there are other things you can do rather than needlessly
insult, all that ever accomplishes is degrading yourself. There were never any pretenses that everyone
would agree with me, you clearly don't and that has been noted. Common courtesy doesn't need to be
absent though, I've already apologized for my part in this. So respectfully, I still disagree with you. The way
to make this work could be part of the main mission, any personal interest in it would be determined
based on your choices. There is much in known science that says this is unlikely, I already know that.
However, this remains science fiction. I'm not suggesting that they just do whatever, this would only work if some
real thought and concept guides their writing. That said, they can write their story in a way to make this
work, to coincide with Mass Effect's universe. As much as we know in science now, there are vast areas
that we still know little to nothing about, even in this one. There will always be things that we do not know.
With the right writing, they can make this work. With the right writing, they can do this in a way most can
accept. There will always be people who don't like something, but they shouldn't prevent writers from
trying to reach their potentials in stories. I think you should try to keep an open mind more often, a little
vision can go a long way in seeing what is actually there.

[Sn0wst0rm]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

Sn0wst0rm wrote...

All of the genetic engineering that takes place in the game is in-species. What you are talking about is not, the combination of any species by bioengineering is illegal, and the combination that your argument originally focused on is contraindicated (this word means there is lots of evidence to the contrary) by the codex entries on the Quarians, Turians, and dialog from NPCs in the games (Listen to the Quarian in the club on Illium). Uberpenguin7's post on DNA provides further explanation on why combination of other levo amino acid based species is also rather unlikely, and supports what I was trying to convey to you in my second post. I never said you directly suggested changing turians and quarians to have levo-based amino acids, but it is what would have to happen to make what you want feasible. If there were loopholes in the law, they would have been exploited previously, and that was my meaning regarding previous mentions (and how there really are not any). I guess my point here is that the very fact that you need to write around things already established in the ME Universe (and science) just to make a hybrid baby work is exactly why it would just be tacked on, poorly written, fanservice. There just is not a way around that. Feel free to try, but if your original post is an indication of the methods you intend to use to make it work out, keep it to fan fiction please. If children need to be involved in the future of interspecies couples, adopting a child is a far more elegant solution.

Look, you clearly need to chill out a bit. I'm sure there are other things you can do rather than needlessly
insult, all that ever accomplishes is degrading yourself. There were never any pretenses that everyone
would agree with me, you clearly don't and that has been noted. Common courtesy doesn't need to be
absent though, I've already apologized for my part in this. So respectfully, I still disagree with you. The way
to make this work could be part of the main mission, any personal interest in it would be determined
based on your choices. There is much in known science that says this is unlikely, I already know that.
However, this remains science fiction. I'm not suggesting that they just do whatever, this would only work if some
real thought and concept guides their writing. That said, they can write their story in a way to make this
work, to coincide with Mass Effect's universe. As much as we know in science now, there are vast areas
that we still know little to nothing about, even in this one. There will always be things that we do not know.
With the right writing, they can make this work. With the right writing, they can do this in a way most can
accept. There will always be people who don't like something, but they shouldn't prevent writers from
trying to reach their potentials in stories. I think you should try to keep an open mind more often, a little
vision can go a long way in seeing what is actually there.

I have only directly "insulted" you once. Anything you construe as an insult past that is just hostility toward you resulting from ignoring the bulk of what I have written. This leads me to believe you are a troll; almost every response you give to my posts is the same BS about how they can work it into the story. You keep repeating that, instead of directly responding to my argument with a rebuttal supported by evidence. I have presented plenty of evidence that supports my position. The only evidence that you have presented is completely unscientific. I highly doubt that I am the one who needs to keep an open mind.

[Sn0wst0rm]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

You say that, but then you don't provide any evidence/new evidence to the contrary.
If you want to disprove me, then show the evidence. Otherwise what I claim holds true
over what you claim. It is as simple as that. And troll? This doesn't need to turn
into some trash thread.

I noticed that you have been redacting a number of your posts so...

Preserved for posterity.

[Qwepir]

PimplyPete wrote...
there's always the Human/Asari child option.

It would just be an asari.

Oh and guys, try getting a Chimpanzee and a Komodo Dragon to mate. I guarantee you will not get a monkey-lizard. Just because two animals get it on does not mean it will have some hybrid baby.

[MPSai]

Since my Fem!Shep romanced Liara I was sort of half expecting a little blue child in ME2, lol. But I think Asari is the only hybrid child that would be possible.

[corebit]

MPSai wrote...

Since my Fem!Shep romanced Liara I was sort of half expecting a little blue child in ME2, lol. But I think Asari is the only hybrid child that would be possible.

Read the posts above you, Asari + other species = still 100% Asari children. The only "hybridness" is the child's personality inherits a bit from the non-asari species, and that is mostly a social factor rather than a genetic one.

[tiberius_adamantine]

Sn0wst0rm wrote...

I have only directly "insulted" you once. Anything you construe as an insult past that is just hostility toward you resulting from ignoring the bulk of what I have written. This leads me to believe you are a troll; almost every response you give to my posts is the same BS about how they can work it into the story. You keep repeating that, instead of directly responding to my argument with a rebuttal supported by evidence. I have presented plenty of evidence that supports my position. The only evidence that you have presented is completely unscientific. I highly doubt that I am the one who needs to keep an open mind.

In all fairness, you are also only repeating your position. For the most part, scientifically speaking, to refute
your evidence I have to provide information that is unknown. Since no method is known to make it work, there
isn't something to tell you. Current knowledge doesn't believe it possible, but then they don't know things fully
either. Since this is fiction, some things can be done / have been done that aren't currently explainable. Making
a way to make things work that doesn't conform to scientific principles at the moment isn't necessarily unscientific. After all what do we know about that? So all that we are really doing is moving in circles. I think we
should just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Modifié par tiberius_adamantine, 26 février 2010 - 05:31 .

[SirGladiator]

I think that some folks are making the claim that based on 2010 scientific knowledge there is no way for a human and a quarian to have a child. I imagine that is true. Certainly there have been some mighty long posts about why that works the way it does, and Im sure thats all very accurate. However the game is set in the future, WAY off in the future, where all sorts of things happen that would be impossible by today's scientific knowledge and experience. We know that in the future not only can men and women of different species have children, WOMEN and women of different species can have children, just ask Liara about that . There is literally nothing stopping Shepard (of any gender) from having a child with Tali, if he/she wants to. All it would take is some kind of high tech scientific device or drug or procedure or whatever, and they could explain in detail how it works or not explain it at all, either way would be fine, because the bottom line is this is Science Fiction, and stuff like that is just as possible as your imagination allows it to be. My imagination allows it to be 100% possible .

[SkullandBonesmember]

SirGladiator wrote...

I think that some folks are making the claim that based on 2010 scientific knowledge there is no way for a human and a quarian to have a child. I imagine that is true. Certainly there have been some mighty long posts about why that works the way it does, and Im sure thats all very accurate. However the game is set in the future, WAY off in the future, where all sorts of things happen that would be impossible by today's scientific knowledge and experience. We know that in the future not only can men and women of different species have children, WOMEN and women of different species can have children, just ask Liara about that . There is literally nothing stopping Shepard (of any gender) from having a child with Tali, if he/she wants to. All it would take is some kind of high tech scientific device or drug or procedure or whatever, and they could explain in detail how it works or not explain it at all, either way would be fine, because the bottom line is this is Science Fiction, and stuff like that is just as possible as your imagination allows it to be. My imagination allows it to be 100% possible .

Alright! http://img19.imagesh...five1267166.png
Seriously, I love Tali but I don't care one way or the other.
This was just a damn good point. Look at hom much humanity's understanding evolves over just 25 years.

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 26 février 2010 - 06:48 .

[Sn0wst0rm]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

Sn0wst0rm wrote...

I have only directly "insulted" you once. Anything you construe as an insult past that is just hostility toward you resulting from ignoring the bulk of what I have written. This leads me to believe you are a troll; almost every response you give to my posts is the same BS about how they can work it into the story. You keep repeating that, instead of directly responding to my argument with a rebuttal supported by evidence. I have presented plenty of evidence that supports my position. The only evidence that you have presented is completely unscientific. I highly doubt that I am the one who needs to keep an open mind.

In all fairness, you are also only repeating your position. For the most part, scientifically speaking, to refute
your evidence I have to provide information that is unknown. Since no method is known to make it work, there
isn't something to tell you. Current knowledge doesn't believe it possible, but then they don't know things fully
either. Since this is fiction, some things can be done / have been done that aren't currently explainable. Making
a way to make things work that doesn't conform to scientific principles at the moment isn't necessarily unscientific. After all what do we know about that? So all that we are really doing is moving in circles. I think we
should just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

We definitely disagree.

Bioware has done an excellent job making Mass Effect a diverse and believable science fiction universe. They put a lot of effort into making nearly everything in the universe rationally conceivable. The codex is full of a lot of different scientific facts about a plethora of different subjects, which save mass effect fields and element zero,are entirely plausible given our current scientific understanding. Most of these codex entries are referenced to by characters in the games.

Just to recap,
At first, your lack of knowledge in biochemistry made arguing with you about how unrealistic your hope for a hybrid baby...difficult. I had not even considered that the person who was petitioning to put this into the game had no background in biology. I thought that informing you some of the basic facts we know about biology in the Mass Effect Universe, and that the closest thing to a hybrid possible with genetic engineering would basically be a new sterile species would be enough evidence to make you reconsider your argument. You tried to back up your original argument with pseudoscience (ie. Quarians and Humans both have endoskeletons,mammary glands,etc. therefore we should be compatible genetically, amino acids type will be passed on from mother to child). Then you received Uberpenguin7's crash courses on in amino acids and DNA (ie. why it would be impossible for a natural hybrid to exist), and still did not concede that your original argument was just ridiculous.

Then you shift focus to how it would be a great boon to the story, and an interesting literary device; that it is still possible to explain away the inconsistencies by inventing new scientific knowledge, which contradicts everything that has already been established (ie, Codex entries on Quarians and Turians and Bioengineering, Dialog from NPCs in the games [Listen to the Quarian and Turian in the club on Illium]). So essentially, in order to do what you are requesting, we take the realities in the ME Universe established over the last two games and throw them out the window in order to accomplish this. How can you call this good storytelling? A subset of fans want to have alien hybrid babies, so Bioware should retcon the story to make what would amount to, at most, footnote in the
main story arc? Or are you suggesting that the main story of the final game in the trilogy should ignore the Reapers, and focus on relationship development? I really do not see where you are going with this.

P.S. You kept saying that by calling your idea fanservice, I am making it sound cheap. Do you deny that it would be by definition fanservice?

Modifié par Sn0wst0rm, 26 février 2010 - 11:04 .

[VasQuipQuip]

human and quarian child would be impossible. the very fact that you can sheckz up Tali is a bit of a stretch.