141 réponses à ce sujet

[SL22]

I disagree with your point, that's just silly.

[Barquiel]

scyphozoa wrote...

Jade Empire blows all other BW games out of the water. Everything about it was flawless victory. As soon as I finished DAO, I loaded up JE to get a real Bioware experience. cough gag cough

I agree.

Jade Empire had the best story imo.

[Sensei Wuzi]

lol. I am highly surprised. This topic has been more civil than I expected. xD

[DeathsHands5]

Sensei Wuzi wrote...

lol. I am highly surprised. This topic has been more civil than I expected. xD

TROLL THREAD IS STILL TROLL THREAD.


Just putting it out there.

[Loregothe]

Yeah it is a troll thread. But, If people didn't think Ohgren making passes at Wynne wasn't hilarious I serious question your sense of humor. That was a riot.

Modifié par Loregothe, 19 février 2010 - 01:56 .

[Daeion]

DA:O beats ME2 simply because it has party banter so the squad mates actually feel alive.

[Seraosha]

You folk are too highly strung. Most people here have both ME and DA, it seems silly to get so worked up about this thread. Besides, the controversy helped stir up interest right? ;-)

Anyway, I see that a handful of legends have also recognised that Jade Empire has some wondrous characters and plot. Jolly good show, comrades =D

[vigna]

Good grief. All Bioware games have their good and bad points. That said their games have the best overall stories and replay value. I'll take Most any of Bioware's characters over Solid Snake, Master Chief, or other overrated PCs.

[AeradinME2]

yeh dragon age... is awesome if you like : very robotic characters, the fact you have to rely on buying people gifts to build their friendship, a terrible combat system that makes you dread having to even go into combat, the fact that despite choosing a voice for your character the most sound you get at most points is grunting and otherwise your practically a mute, and one of the worst things is being unable to effectively use most of the characters together without worrying about pissing one off with dialogue while making the other ones happy.

I mean dragonage is a decent enough game but for me it was simply an appetizer for the main course (Mass effect 2) and I gotta say it was a very sad appetizer ,despite being a RPG from Bioware it just doesnt have the replay value most of their games including Mass effect has.

[Varyen]

While I think both games have their pros & cons I do miss the banter of DAO that ME doesn't have but at the same time I wish DAO had more heated decussions that ME2 has between the companions.
 
Each game is awesome in it's own way.

[Bartlebyfinch]

Neither game is "better" than the other.  There are different strengths and weaknesses to be found in each.  This is how I would personally compare the two games.

For the record, I loved both games.  This has, in my opinion, beeen the single best year for video games in history.  Thank you Bioware.

Character Dialogue

Winner:  Dragon Age

In-group banter is something that I sorely missed in ME.  Overall, the Dragonage characters were also more fully developed.  There just wasn't enough dialogue in ME2.  1-2 sessions per character before you get their loyalty mission.  Then, only one session afterwards and they're finished talking.  The one exception to this is if you romance them, and that only gets you one other bit of dialogue.  I never actually bothered to count, but I'm pretty sure that if you follow the right combination of dialogue trees, you can get at least 10 dialogue sessions out of most of the Dragon Age characters (this is "camp" dialogue, not including mission banter & unique cinematics).  The one notable exception in ME2 is probably Mordin.  For whatever reason, he gets (I'm pretty sure) more dialgoue sessions than the other characters, including his "song" (the highlight of ME2's dialogue imo). 

Characters

Winner:  DRAW

This one is too close to call for me.  Both games had lots of great characters.  Tali (of course), Mordin, Thane, Zaeed and Samara were all great in ME2.  I never liked Garrus in the first ME, but I really warmed to him this time around.  I wanted very much to like Jack, but I never quite managed to... but I think that might actually be a good thing.  Making her likeable wouldn't really have been realistic.

Similarly, Dragon Age is full of great characters.  Oghren is simply a wonderful character, and I also like Leilana & Wynn a great deal.  I hate to admit it, but I liked Morrigan & Allister too.  They were both incredibly annoying in their own way, but both were drawn with a degree of depth that far overshadows anytyhing in ME2.  Finally, I need to brag about Sten.  I actually didn't figure out what a great character he is until my third playthrough... when I finally got him to open up.

Romance

Winner:  Dragon Age

This one is a landslide.  Seriously, if you thought that the romances in ME2 were better than those in Dragon Age, I don't know what to tell you.  I will admit that the Zevran romance was pretty blah (and empty), but the Allister & Leilana romances were much, much deeper and more interesting than anything in ME2.  Remember that the ME 2 "romances" only consisted of one or two sets of unique dialogue.  The Morrigan romance outshined everything else by light years imo.  As I said before, I disliked a lot about Morrigan, and she wasn't my favorite romance by any means, but her romance (if one pursues it all the way to its tragic end) was extremely well-done, and Bioware deserves kudos for handling it the way they did.

By comparison, the ME2 romances are pretty much nothing.  Finish the loyalty mission, pick the "I like you" dialogue option afterwards, then you get the same repeating dialogue until the end of the game when you get a cutscene.  I was very pleased that we had a chance to romance Tali in ME2 (yes, I do love me some Tali - and I am glad the game didn't show her face), but the simple fact of the matter is that there just wasn't much romance there.

Gameplay

Winner:  N/A

Imo, you honestly can't have a "best" in this category because you're comparing apples & oranges.  Mass Effect 2 is, for the most part, a shooter.  The game relies on the PLAYER'S reflexes and coordination to quickly and accurately line up shots.  Your ability to physically aim trumps built-in "dice rolling" mechanics.  There is some brain work involved.  You have to think a bit about your character build (though there isn't nearly as much to consider as there is in DA), but most of the thinking in ME2 comes in the form of quickly evaluating individual battlefields and deciding when and where to move.  

Dragon Age, by comparison doesn't rely on reflexes or coordination at all.  It is completely a thinking game.  Choose abilities, assign actions to each character, let the "dice rolling" mechanism figure out what happens.  The game depends completely on your character build, ability combinations, how well your gear and party abilities complements what you're trying to do, and choosing the right action at the right time.  The game is 100% mental.

There is no "best" here.  Some people like shooters.  They like high-adrenaline combat where their own quick reactions determine whether they win or lose.  Physical sports are a fair analogue.  Some people prefer mental challenges where pre-planning and strategic decisions determine who will carry victory.  This compares more favorably to mental sports like chess.  Some people like one, other people like another.  I like both, but I prefer the latter.  

Personally, I would trade all of the combat improvements in ME2 for more detailed ability trees, an inventory system, and a more detailed weapon/armor upgrade and customization system.  I do, however, completely understand why many players would not.  This simply comes down to personal preference, and not amount of arguing or debate is ever going to produce a "right answer.  

What was it that Legion said?  "One plus one is less than three.  Three plus one is more than two.  Both are valid conclusions."  Something like that.

Immersion

Winner:  ME2

This one is MUCH closer than it should have been.  Considering all of the time I've played (and replayed) ME, and how much of an interest I had in Shepard, my crew, and the ME universe, ME should have blown Dragon Age out of the water in this area.  If you add in the seamless dialogue system with actual voice acting from your main character, the gap should have been even wider.  

That actually wasn't the case. 

I don't know if it was different origins that were available, the more in-depth romances, the greater sense of "knowing" your companions, or the simple fact that Dragon Age just had a lot more stuff to do, but I have gotten REALLY involved with several of my Dragon Age characters.  Much more so that I ever would have though possible.  Dragon Age also had many more emotionally charged moments for me, and it made me feel more guilty about "evil" choices than Mass Effect did.  My "Ultimate Evil Overlord" playthrough of Dragon Age is one of the most mentally grueling things I've ever put myself through.  It made me feel so awful about myself that I had to take a day off between each play session to recover.  At the end of the game, I beat the archdemon, but I pretty much destroyed all of the world around me in the process.  I was completely and utterly alone, and all of my companions had either deserted me in disgust or were dead (by my own hand in most cases).  A renegade playthrough in ME2, by comparison, mostly just results in Shepard acting like a dick for no good reason while his crew follows him loyally anyway.  

Still, Mass Effect 2 edges this one out simply because of graphics, the smooth dialogue transitions and and adrenaline-pumping combat.  You really do feel like you are inside of a movie (or at least I did).  

This is a victory for ME2, but  because of how much closer things were than they should have been, it might prove to be a hollow one.

Story

Winner:  Dragon Age (or N/A)

This is another category that almost got a "N/A" result.  I realize that ME2 is just the middle chapter in a trilogy (and, therefore, subject to the dreaded "middle chapter" syndrome that only "Star Wars Episode V" seems immune to).  The simple fact of the matter is that the ME2 storyline just wasn't very good.  I'm not really upset or disappointed by that, because I didn't expect it to be.  ME1 was the mind-blowing "this is what's REALLY going on" chapter.  ME3 will (hopefully) be the "ungodly epic final battle" chapter.  ME2 is the "getting over obstacles while building a team" chapter - the transition.  

Dragon Age did not have a great story by any means.  It had a good one though.  The characters in the game did a good job of enhancing it though.  Compared to ME1, the story in Dragon Age is crap, but... compared to ME1, the story in 75% of the novels I've read in the last 3 years are crap.  ME1's story line was just plain spectactular.  The best storyline I've ever seen in any video game, bar none.  Unfortunately, ME2 doesn't manage to keep things at the same level.

Setting

Winner:  Mass Effect 2

Simply put, I love the ME galaxy.  It is probably my favorite setting in any video game series ever.  I love galaxy exploration.  I love having my own ship.  The smudges moving around on the map in Dragon Age simply can't compare to that.  No contest.

Modifié par Bartlebyfinch, 19 février 2010 - 05:24 .

[cronshaw8]

St Mael wrote...

You know why?

It has NO Tali!

So which BioWare game to you people think is better as far as character writing goes? Although the Mass Effect cast does have a few saving graces, I believe Dragon Age is leaps ahead in this regard.

Besides Shale and Nibbles (that's what i named my war dog) most of the characters in dragon age were irritating to me in one way or another. I think it stemed more from the loyalty system than anything else though. Morrigan was just an idiot. She was supposed to be the "get things done at all cost" type of person but couldn't stand you helping anyone even if it was the most logical and expedient way to get the job done.

[Onyx Jaguar]

cronshaw8 wrote...

St Mael wrote...

You know why?

It has NO Tali!

So which BioWare game to you people think is better as far as character writing goes? Although the Mass Effect cast does have a few saving graces, I believe Dragon Age is leaps ahead in this regard.

Besides Shale and Nibbles (that's what i named my war dog) most of the characters in dragon age were irritating to me in one way or another. I think it stemed more from the loyalty system than anything else though. Morrigan was just an idiot. She was supposed to be the "get things done at all cost" type of person but couldn't stand you helping anyone even if it was the most logical and expedient way to get the job done.

Sten was really the only one that came off correctly as the "get things done at all costs" character.  Morrigan was inconsistant, chaotic stupid I believe one person called it.  One of my favorite characters from the game but I'm not going to be naive and say I don't see how people think she is a dumb character, there are clear inconsistinces in how she was written which make much of her interactions awkard and nonsensical.  Oghren was comic relief too far into the game, while Zevran was already better at that and had a more established world view and character (plus after Sten, Oghren wasn't all that useful in battle, especially at the stage of the game you get him since Orzammar was by far the largest portion of the game).  Alistair was good as a sarcastic foil, Leliana was there haven't built a large consensus on her yet, and Wynne was just... there, Barely.  I like that in DA you have more influence over your companions, but the system in place for that to me seemed to compromise each individual character more than it does in ME 2.  While in both ME games the characters get to trust you, they aren't psychologically dependant on your character as it seems at times in DA, even Shale falls victim to this.

[raichualuvsong]

Clive Howlitzer wrote...

I like DAO and Mass Effect for different reasons. They are two different approaches to the RPG genre and I like them each.
Though I think each game could borrow elements from the other and be better off for it.
Mass Effect could use more character interaction between your members like in DAO. INstead of just with Shepard.
Also, DAO could use more dynamic cameras and movements during conversations, instead of being so stiff. Also...give my character a god damn voice.

This.

[Computron2000]

Yeah as some mentioned, Jade empire ftw. Still waiting for JE2 though....



*cries*

[AM50]

St Mael wrote...

You know why?











It has NO Tali!

So which BioWare game to you people think is better as far as character writing goes? Although the Mass Effect cast does have a few saving graces, I believe Dragon Age is leaps ahead in this regard.

Cool story bro.