201 réponses à ce sujet

[JasonPogo]

If you play the game then you should pick up on the trend that everything that has to do with Reapers leads to indoctrination.  Hell even the long dead Reaper corpse you go to turns all the Cerberus researchers into nut job indoctrinated fools.

So even if you set off a bomb to kill just the Collectors on the base Harbinger is still hardwired into it and will just end up turning anyone you send there into his pawns...  So again how would keeping the base around be a good idea??

[Ramikadyc]

Everything that has to do with the DIRECT STUDY of Reapers has lead to indoctrination. The only thing on board the Collector ship could just be the human-reaper-larva, which doesn't seem to be evolved enough to possess the higher Reaper functions like indoctrination, seeing as how it was still early in development. The Collectors were cybernetic organisms, and evolved that way because indoctrination ruined their minds and functions, so the Reapers replaced it all with tech to control them. Why would they need indoctrination on the Collector base if they can just set up a Homegroup with Windows7 in Darkspace and remotely access the Collector General's desktop?

Modifié par Ramikadyc, 19 février 2010 - 01:05 .

[Thornquist]

Your indoctrination point is just speculation tough, and you cant deny the logic of the Illusive Man, even if you dont like the guy.

[Schneidend]

Ramikadyc wrote...

Everything that has to do with the DIRECT STUDY of Reapers has lead to indoctrination. The only thing on board the Collector ship could just be the human-reaper-larva, which doesn't seem to be evolved enough to possess the higher Reaper functions like indoctrination, seeing as how it was still early in development. The Collectors were cybernetic organisms, and evolved that way because indoctrination ruined their minds and functions, so the Reapers replaced it all with tech to control them. Why would they need indoctrination on the Collector base if they can just set up a Homegroup with Windows7 in Darkspace and remotely access the Collector General's desktop?

You just used Windows functions as an analogy to describe a plot point of a sci-fi video game. This is easily the height of nerddom.

<Bows.> My liege.

[SkywardDescent]

I still blew it up, and I'd do it again.

No way am I ending the game without a giant explosion of some sort.

Modifié par SkywardDescent, 19 février 2010 - 01:09 .

[Abirn]

Schneidend wrote...

Ramikadyc wrote...

Everything that has to do with the DIRECT STUDY of Reapers has lead to indoctrination. The only thing on board the Collector ship could just be the human-reaper-larva, which doesn't seem to be evolved enough to possess the higher Reaper functions like indoctrination, seeing as how it was still early in development. The Collectors were cybernetic organisms, and evolved that way because indoctrination ruined their minds and functions, so the Reapers replaced it all with tech to control them. Why would they need indoctrination on the Collector base if they can just set up a Homegroup with Windows7 in Darkspace and remotely access the Collector General's desktop?

You just used Windows functions as an analogy to describe a plot point of a sci-fi video game. This is easily the height of nerddom.

My liege.

And in the end, the reapers were taken down, not by organic beings but rather by the bsod.

[Dishwasher64]

I couldn't destroy the base because it would seem too much like shooting myself in the foot. I have no doubt that it would help against the Reapers, my only concern is that I'm leaving it in the hands of TIM, who makes quite clear he intends to use it to secure human dominance against the other races of the galaxy.



Still, I can only be so picky with my allies against the Reapers.

[Ramikadyc]

Also, to me, it seems like if you destroy the Collector base, you're back to square one: waiting for the invasion of the Reapers. Must have new tech to fight Reapers, because if we leave the fate of the galaxy in the hands of the galaxy's current scientific experts, we're going to need several thousand metric tons of heat sinks to save ourselves.

Modifié par Ramikadyc, 19 février 2010 - 01:16 .

[Kahlmulandr]

What i wondered is if my ship is the only ship that can safely travel there because of the IFF why the hell am i worried about what TIM is going to do with it.

[Vaenier]

Would you throw out the plans to the death star? How would you know its weak spot?

What selfish moron would throw out the one way in the galaxy to learn the Reapers' weakness...

You dont have to use it, just learn how to kill it.

And if you know about indoctrination, then take precautions. shifts, maximum exposure times. create shielding to stop indoctrination. Look, another way to help fight reapers from the collector base.

[Akrylik]

Vaenier wrote...
You dont have to use it, just learn how to kill it.

so far, explosions have managed to work quite nicely

[pointtech86]

I saved it because think of all the information you could learn from all those destroyed ships going through the Omega 4 relay? It would be the biggest scientific discovery in the history of the currently known galaxy.



Also, you can't reverse-engineer any of the technology that would have been in the base if you destroy it. Too many people here forget that in a way this is a real universe and if you don't make the hard choices it will come to bite you in the a**.



Destroying it is the easy and feel good way to deal with it, but in actuality is selfish and most certainly dooming everyone else, including yourself in due time. You can't defeat an army of Reapers through sheer willpower, you have to outsmart them, and the only way to do that is saving the base.

[FredegarKadere]

Wow, I never thought about all the derelict ships surrounding the Collector Base, just imagine all the knowledge that could be gleamed from those ancient vessels. Blowing up the Base would in essence destroy much of the debris field while the Radiation Pulse wouldn't bother it at all. This only hardens my resolve in keeping the Collector Base intact as the 'right' choice.

Well done Pointtech86, well done.

[Ramikadyc]

FredegarKadere wrote...
 Blowing up the Base would in essence destroy much of the debris field while the Radiation Pulse wouldn't bother it at all.
Well done Pointtech86, well done.

You tell that to the crew of the derelict SSV Chernobyl!

[Vaenier]

didnt even think of the millions of years of spaceship debris surrounding the base. Very nice reminding me of that.

I feel bad for the people who blew up such a cache of knowledge.

[Chromie]

World War II Germany had been making a nuke.
What did we do, we made our own!

Why not in the same reguard do should we throw away chances at learning about our enemy. Keeping the base could offer several things.

1. A Collector base is pretty damning evidence. With that Shepard could ust say "Yo Council and Alliance get your asses over here and look Reapers do exist. Clearly Shepard has no problem letting people know.

2. It's a freaking Collector base! If the Collector's were infact Prothean imagine all the knowledge and wisdom or atleast data they must have stored to run the station. The collectors according to Mordin have no culture, no art, nothing to make them seems special as a people but they still have a Reaper's technology and I guess resources. Maybe the base would have some info on how it was created, what was used to create it and maybe the Collecto'rs are like Keepers with guns. They maintain their own space station after all.

3. There is way too much history that shouldnt just be blow up. If you decided  to destroy the base. That explosion should have destroyed everything near it including all of those ancient ship debris. What to say that some of those ships aren't from some other races that exited before even the Asari achieved space flight?

4. Like the Illusive Man had said the collector base base would be the biggest tecnological jump since the Prothean data cache on Mars. The Proteans gaves us the knowledge of Mass Effect and let us reach the furtest of stars imagine what the Collector's Base would do! The ship that follows us throughout the game is huge! Yet it can land on a world while the Normandy SR2 can't, imagine the Mass Effect  generator they have.

I hate that Bioware gives us only two options when it comes to what to do with the Collector Base. Why not let us call the Alliance or the Council? We will need the help of the other races in order to stop the Reapers, I hope anyway, so convincing them sooner rather than later would be a great start.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

JasonPogo wrote...

If you play the game then you should pick up on the trend that everything that has to do with Reapers leads to indoctrination.  Hell even the long dead Reaper corpse you go to turns all the Cerberus researchers into nut job indoctrinated fools.

So even if you set off a bomb to kill just the Collectors on the base Harbinger is still hardwired into it and will just end up turning anyone you send there into his pawns...  So again how would keeping the base around be a good idea??

Everything they touch doesn't lead to Indoctrination.  Otherwise, people would be indoctrinated from Mass Relays.  The technology inside of the Collector base is just far more advanced Reaper technology than what everyone else has available.  And using that technology would allow the civilization to create more advanced weapons, thus giving them a bigger advantage against the Reapers.

The moral decision comes from whether or not you would want to take that technology to defend yourself while simultaneously taking the chance that Cerberus will abuse the tech, or destroy the technology and find a different way to prepare and leaving an assload of power out of the hands of the Illusive Man.

Considering what the Turians were able to reverse engineer out of Soverign in only 11 months, the galaxy would have some heavy duty tech if they managed to get their hands on The Collectors base.  Unfortunately, since the mission was coordinated by Cerberus, no one but Cerberus would have access to it.

And in some cases, them having it is better than no one having it.  And in other cases, no one having it is better than them having it.

[Lightice_av]

I hate that Bioware gives us only two options when it comes to what to do with the Collector Base. Why not let us call the Alliance or the Council? We will need the help of the other races in order to stop the Reapers, I hope anyway, so convincing them sooner rather than later would be a great start.

Because accidentally indoctrinating the Council or the Alliance brass would really doom the galaxy. Cerberus isn't a big loss, but the others we can't deal with.

Everything they touch doesn't lead to Indoctrination.  Otherwise,
people would be indoctrinated from Mass Relays.  The technology inside
of the Collector base is just far more advanced Reaper technology than
what everyone else has available.  And using that technology would
allow the civilization to create more advanced weapons, thus giving
them a bigger advantage against the Reapers

 

Remember that dead Reaper inside the Collector Base? It will indoctrinate people if they are allowed to come to contact with it.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 19 février 2010 - 01:43 .

[luk3us]

The rewards out weigh the risks imo. So what if a bunch of cerb scientists go nutty, its not like we can't just blow the whole base to hell. The information and tech that could be learned is well worth it.

[Ramikadyc]

Lightice_av wrote...

Remember that dead Reaper inside the Collector Base? It will indoctrinate people if they are allowed to come to contact with it.

You mean the one that was still early in development, the one that is called a LARVA? The one that a squad of three managed to take down with handheld weapons? What makes you think that it has been programmed with the ability to indoctrinate, especially since 1) it's still being developed and is very early on, and 2) there's no one around for it to indoctrinate?

Besides, it could very well be destroyed after what Shepard did to it. There's really no comparison between a small, in-development Reaper with barely any real Reaper power and the full-fledged war machines of Sovereign and the one that the Cerberus science team boarded.

[Vamp44]

Because TIM said so.



But, no really. I personally find keeping it a good idea. We're going to need all the technology we can get.

[Lightice_av]

You mean the one that was still early in development, the one that is called a LARVA? The one that a squad of three managed to take down with handheld weapons? What makes you think that it has been programmed with the ability to indoctrinate, especially since 1) it's still being developed and is very early on, and 2) there's no one around for it to indoctrinate?

Because it's so basic property of the Reapers that even a dead, cold, 37 million year old derelict still emits full power indoctrination. It's something that defines them. I don't think they could turn it off if they tried, and I think that even the smallest component of their body emits the same influence. Indoctrination is the Reapers and vice versa.

[Ramikadyc]

Lightice_av wrote...

You mean the one that was still early in development, the one that is called a LARVA? The one that a squad of three managed to take down with handheld weapons? What makes you think that it has been programmed with the ability to indoctrinate, especially since 1) it's still being developed and is very early on, and 2) there's no one around for it to indoctrinate?

Because it's so basic property of the Reapers that even a dead, cold, 37 million year old derelict still emits full power indoctrination. It's something that defines them. I don't think they could turn it off if they tried, and I think that even the smallest component of their body emits the same influence. Indoctrination is the Reapers and vice versa.

Like I mentioned above, the dead, cold, 37 million year old derelict still emitting full indoctrination power was an all-out Reaper. The larva is not. It seems like if it was capable of indoctrination it would have been emitting that power in the fight; indoctrination may happen slowly in order to keep the victims in working order, but the process can be sped up at the cost of ruining the subjects' higher cognitive and motor functions, and in the interest of self-preservation I don't think it would worry about the latter. The colonists of Eden Prime complained about the screeching in their head (read: indoctrination) yet Sovereign wasn't around long enough to indoctrinate them--this means that indoctrination, to some extent, seems to be used quite frequently, yet neither Shepard nor anyone else mentions anything about it.

[Vaenier]

Lightice_av wrote...

You mean the one that was still early in development, the one that is called a LARVA? The one that a squad of three managed to take down with handheld weapons? What makes you think that it has been programmed with the ability to indoctrinate, especially since 1) it's still being developed and is very early on, and 2) there's no one around for it to indoctrinate?

Because it's so basic property of the Reapers that even a dead, cold, 37 million year old derelict still emits full power indoctrination. It's something that defines them. I don't think they could turn it off if they tried, and I think that even the smallest component of their body emits the same influence. Indoctrination is the Reapers and vice versa.

Have researchers there in shifts. Limit maximum exposure. Test shielding techniques to prevent indoctrination from the main reaper fleet. learn how to indoctrinate reapers. Learn how to tell if someone is an indoctrinated spy. Find out what part of the reaper makes indoctrination and try jaming the signal. So many possibilities.