201 réponses à ce sujet

[Jebel Krong]

collector base =/= reaper. the reaper shell affected organics, the collector base wouldn't. and it's probably packed with advanced tech - weapons, materials, bio-engineering etc. plus you get a nice radiation-pulse explosion choosing to keep it anyway.

[Canez fan 1988]

adam_grif wrote...

Exactly, there are no such things as "precautions against indoctrination.' if there were, why didn't cerberus use them on the reaper? the excuse that "its dead and we believe we're safe" is as naive as you can get when discussing Evil machine gods.

Since the proposed precautions are hearing protection (since it's infrasound and subliminal), hardsuits or telepresense, and none of these things went on as displayed in the video, the conclusion we can reach is that they didn't take them. Why? Either they didn't think it was going to happen due to it being dead, or TiM knew it would but just didn't care.

In the mission summary after the Reaper IFF mission it says that the indoctrination of the Cerberus scientists was unfortunate but not surprising. TIM knew there was a chance of that happening before sending that team out there.

[SL22]

This is a Bioware game, blowing up the base was a Paragon action, do the math.

[adam_grif]

SL22 wrote...

This is a Bioware game, blowing up the base was a Paragon action, do the math.

Already did, and it ends up evaluating to "Renegade option gives cerberus power, paragon option doesn't, nothing major is changed in the final entry, you can win decisively irrespective of the choice you make".

[whiteraider]

Given the 'canon' start to ME2, I still have visions of loading up my Paragon at the start of ME3 and getting a 30min cinematic that ends, you blew up the treat, GAME OVER!

[trigger2kill1]

LOL "knack for criminal incompetence" funny are you saying that they are good at ^uckin sh!t up?

[Nizzemancer]

1. If you keep the base you're changing one Insane conqueror for another, this way I keep TIM in check, besides, the collectors were destroyed by the reapers, the collector tech you might find wouldn't do any good in a fight against them, besides, reverse-engineering takes time, the only use TIM might have for any tech in there will be used to further his agenda, not defend against reapers..

2. Noooo, there's probably no reaper indoctrination tech in a humongous collector-base, why would they need that? Whoever believes the last line must not have payed attention to the game, assuming that there is no threat for selfish reasons is stupid.

3. The collector base isn't a key to defeating the reapers, and the moral choice in the matter is far from the old "wipe out rachni race or don't", if you keep the base you are just securing future tech for an organisation that puts humans first, it's like giving blueprints for nukes to a group who's goal is to further the advancements of white people no matter how many black or asian guys they have to let die. Just because they did you a huge favor doesn't mean you owe them your ethics or personality, if you think that way you're nothing but a slave.

[adam_grif]

Tighue wrote...

It's not enough to have the resources to acquire personnel and technology. I destroyed the Collector base because Cerberus consistently demonstrated a knack for criminal incompetence. My inner renegade savored the irony as Shepard screwed TIM to the wall with the "You're on my team now" ending.

Ah yes, "Reapers".

Cerberus is by far the most competent organization in the known galaxy.

[adam_grif]

Nizzemancer wrote...

1. If you keep the base you're changing one Insane conqueror for another, this way I keep TIM in check, besides, the collectors were destroyed by the reapers, the collector tech you might find wouldn't do any good in a fight against them, besides, reverse-engineering takes time, the only use TIM might have for any tech in there will be used to further his agenda, not defend against reapers..

No, at worst you're swapping out omnicidal machine swarms that kill or enslave every spacefaring being in the galaxy for a rich dude who wants humanity to be the most politically powerful species in citadel space. Boy, what a tought choice. My species gains political power or we get wiped out? Gee, it's a toughy. 

TiM's agenda is defending against the reapers, because he's going to have a hard time gaining power if he's too busy being a smear of blood on the side of a wrecked space station.

2. Noooo, there's probably no reaper indoctrination tech in a humongous collector-base, why would they need that? Whoever believes the last line must not have payed attention to the game, assuming that there is no threat for selfish reasons is stupid.

Noooo, we should abandon a bunch of advanced alien tech when a swarm of giant alien locusts are about to invade us because there might be indoctrination tech aboard.

What are you getting at? It's potentially (no evidence of collectors using indoctrination tech or having access to it or the base having it installed) dangerous, therefore we ought to abandon it? Are you familiar with a cost benefit analysis? 

Guaranteed benefit: New tech advances that might prove critical to our survival
Possible cost: Some researchers die

Even if there was a 50/50 chance that it will explode and wie out a solar system full of people, it would still be worth salvaging. If there is indoctrination tech on board, then we can take advantage of it by using it as a test bed to discover how to protect ones self from indoctrination, which will save more lives in the future in addition to allowing unmitigated access to the rest of the ship and any disabled reaper tech in the future.

3. The collector base isn't a key to defeating the reapers, and the moral choice in the matter is far from the old "wipe out rachni race or don't", if you keep the base you are just securing future tech for an organisation that puts humans first, it's like giving blueprints for nukes to a group who's goal is to further the advancements of white people no matter how many black or asian guys they have to let die. Just because they did you a huge favor doesn't mean you owe them your ethics or personality, if you think that way you're nothing but a slave.

The only reason the moral choice is bull**** is beause Shepard has the SR2 with reaper IFF, and could easily grant access to the collector ship to the alliance, citadel council races or anybody he damn well chooses. But the game won't let you do that obvious thing.

As it stands, I'd rather Cerberus benefit from the tech than nobody benefit from it, because at least one race is going to come out of it stronger and have an improved chance to beat the reapers. Cerberus getting more power and humanity becoming more dominant is a small price to pay for saving the galaxy from extinction

[A Culchie]

adam_grif wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...


As it stands, I'd rather Cerberus benefit from the tech than nobody benefit from it, because at least one race is going to come out of it stronger and have an improved chance to beat the reapers. Cerberus getting more power and humanity becoming more dominant is a small price to pay for saving the galaxy from extinction

you sound just like a cerberus operative

../../../images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png

Modifié par A Culchie, 19 février 2010 - 02:37 .

[trh5001]

My new theory is that the reapers want the humans to have the tech. Then the humans go on a crusade of taking over the galaxy because well the majority seem to be xenophobic people who view humanity as better than everyone else. Then once the humans defeat and control everyone else the reapers show up make humanity their **** and start the process of turning them into collectors.

Modifié par trh5001, 19 février 2010 - 02:48 .

[adam_grif]

Right, because having a single unified galactic power with advanced tech is way easier to steamroll than a series of fractured, warring factions with a lower tech level.

[trh5001]

adam_grif wrote...

Right, because having a single unified galactic power with advanced tech is way easier to steamroll than a series of fractured, warring factions with a lower tech level.

It worked out when they were steam rolling the protheans.

[anmiro]

Vaenier wrote...

Would you throw out the plans to the death star? How would you know its weak spot?
What selfish moron would throw out the one way in the galaxy to learn the Reapers' weakness...
You dont have to use it, just learn how to kill it.
And if you know about indoctrination, then take precautions. shifts, maximum exposure times. create shielding to stop indoctrination. Look, another way to help fight reapers from the collector base.

Since we are using Star Wars Analogies, no, I would not hold on to the plans for the Death Star, the thing blows up planets. And I certainly wouldn't hand the plans for the Death Star over to Lord Sidious.

[Blindside002]

Did no one get the running theme about jumping in technology before the race was ready was in fact a BAD THING. I mean look at Legion, he showed what Logical Thinking about gaining power as fast as they could did for the other faction in his race, that without the journey to the actual goal, the race has not matured enough to reasonably use it. As it was Humanity in the Mass Effect Universe is no where near the point where they would be able to use that power resposibly. It would be like asking a 16 year old to go and run a 16-wheeler when he as just gotten his drivers liscence with a car. Not only would we not have the time to effectively use the knowledge from the collector ship, we would have irresponsible people behind the wheel who want nothing more than to advance their own agenda. Finally look at the Krogan, that is the BIGGEST of the examples as to what could happen if a race is jumped too far beyond its current knowledge or reasoning. Sure the Krogan had many issues with them being a culture based on war, but if they had had the extra couple of centuries they may have developed enough to learn to live more coexistantly.


In short, destorying the base is not as selfish as the other choice because while it MAY give some knowledge as to how the Reapers could be beat, it is a irresponsible choice that would likely have many undesired effects and backlash.


"The path to Hell is paved with good intentions."

Modifié par Blindside002, 19 février 2010 - 02:58 .

[trh5001]

Blindside002 wrote...

Did no one get the running theme about jumping in technology before the race was ready was in fact a BAD THING. I mean look at Legion, he showed what Logical Thinking about gaining power as fast as they could did for the other faction in his race, that without the journey to the actual goal, the race has not matured enough to reasonably use it. As it was Humanity in the Mass Effect Universe is no where near the point where they would be able to use that power resposibly. It would be like asking a 16 year old to go and run a 16-wheeler when he as just gotten his drivers liscence with a car. Not only would we not have the time to effectively use the knowledge from the collector ship, we would have irresponsible people behind the wheel who want nothing more than to advance their own agenda. Finally look at the Krogan, that is the BIGGEST of the examples as to what could happen if a race is jumped too far beyond its current knowledge or reasoning. Sure the Krogan had many issues with them being a culture based on war, but if they had had the extra couple of centuries they may have developed enough to learn to live more coexistantly.


In short, destorying the base is not as selfish as the other choice because while it MAY give some knowledge as to how the Reapers could be beat, it is a irresponsible choice that would likely have many undesired effects and backlash.


"The path to Hell is paved with good intentions."

This was the reason why I didn't keep the base.

[Count Viceroy]

The reapers themselves want us to use their tech, they even said so to our face. Anything reaper based is probably something they can counter. Going our own way will probably increase our chances.

[Harcken]

So... there are enough reapers to "darken the sky" that are straight on their way to completely annihilate everything. We happen to find a huge base of operations, littered with their tech, and who knows what else. Let's blow it to hell mwahahah! We got nothing to fear from those Reapers, I'll just stand up to them and Kick ass and chew bubblegum... then they'll leave...

[Roxlimn]

"By using our technology, your culture develops along the paths that we desire."

[Varyen]

Dishwasher64 wrote...
he intends to use it to secure human dominance against the other races of the galaxy.

Still, I can only be so picky with my allies against the Reapers.

This is why my 1st transfer was the saved council, I thought by saving the council I'd get more support in ME2, boy was I wrong. I'm betting the same thing will happen in ME3 with the races & organizations that you sway to your side.

What shocked me was how fast the both the alien & human council turn on you but I wasn't surprized at both sweeping the whole reaper thing under the rug & ignoring or disbelieving it.

[Vaenier]

My Counter arguments:

"Oh no, we will be indoctrinated?!" A perfect opportunity to study indoctrination and develop shielding and jamming techniques for the upcoming war. Otherwise when shep is fighting his way through the reapers to blow them up from the inside, he will become a husk.

"But TIM is EVIL!!!!" So blow up the base after the reapers are dead, or just keep control of Cerberus's actions at the base with regular progress reports. You took it from the Collectors, a few dozen Cerberus scientists would not put up much of a fight.

"We will find another way." Stop applying the knowledge that its a game. Your Shep has no idea if it can find another way. This is the only opportunity that exists right now.

"Reapers want us to use their technology" So dont use it, just learn how it works so you can develop your own technology that counters it. make a shield that is stronger against their weapons, or a weapon that bypasses their shields.



You can always blow it up later. But you cant bring it back.

[Barquiel]

Vaenier wrote...

My Counter arguments:
"Oh no, we will be indoctrinated?!" A perfect opportunity to study indoctrination and develop shielding and jamming techniques for the upcoming war. Otherwise when shep is fighting his way through the reapers to blow them up from the inside, he will become a husk.
"But TIM is EVIL!!!!" So blow up the base after the reapers are dead, or just keep control of Cerberus's actions at the base with regular progress reports. You took it from the Collectors, a few dozen Cerberus scientists would not put up much of a fight.
"We will find another way." Stop applying the knowledge that its a game. Your Shep has no idea if it can find another way. This is the only opportunity that exists right now.
"Reapers want us to use their technology" So dont use it, just learn how it works so you can develop your own technology that counters it. make a shield that is stronger against their weapons, or a weapon that bypasses their shields.

You can always blow it up later. But you cant bring it back.

"But TIM is EVIL!"
I'm not saving the galaxy so Cerberus can turn it into a human tyranny...

"We will find another way."
That's not necessary. EDI scanned the base's database and received all the available data on the reapers (the datapad that Joker hands Shepard).

I doubt collector tech helps against the reapers anyway. The collector ship wasn't that advanced.

Modifié par Barquiel, 19 février 2010 - 04:28 .

[Vaenier]

Barquiel wrote...

"But TIM is EVIL!"
I'm not saving the galaxy so Cerberus can turn it into a human tyranny...

"We will find another way."
That's not necessary. EDI scanned the base's database and received all the available data on the reapers (the datapad that Joker hands Shepard).

I doubt collector tech helps against the reapers anyway. The collector ship wasn't that advanced.

nice, you just ignored what i said.
1. So dont just give it to tim and look away. You cant be that stupid... nvm...
2. You dont know that till after you blow it up. Why do I have to repeat myself about not applying outside knowledge...

Vaenier wrote...

You can always blow it up later. But you cant bring it back.