19 réponses à ce sujet

[masseffectfan00]

I'm having a super hard time deciding what bonus skill I should get

[RamsenC]

I think the general consensus is you don't need a bonus skill. You could go AP ammo or put 1 point into barrier for a quick shield boost when you can't charge, but thats about it.

[Kurupt87]

not really, but the most broadly useful are:
area reave is good to soften up before you go in
1 pt in barrier for when you cant charge (barrier over gsb/fort because cd/duration modifiers)(also useful because you should, i think, still have enough points to get area pull)
slam because it does gd dmg and can cc for 8s or so (and you dont have to waste points in shockwave to get pull which this replaces) and has a rly short cd like pull
dominate useful as the dominated enemy draws all fire
ap ammo maybe, but only if you plan on using the evi
edit: the trouble is, are any of these worth missing out on area pull?

Modifié par Kurupt87, 19 février 2010 - 02:21 .

[Deflagratio]

I go with Warp Ammo. Not only does it have great Anti-Armor ability, but the added effect against Barriers(The only ammo type with a bonus against barriers) means you can rip apart Collectors almost immediately. The Tempest, with Warp Ammo, spells death for collectors. Able to kill them (On insanity) Before even one sink is consumed (Accuracy willing, at max level).

Also, what says VANGUARD better than Warp Ammo? The perfect blending of Gunfire and Biotics.

Depending on build, I usually load Warps on Shotgun and SMG, and Inferno (Yes I max that) on Hand Cannon. I've tried Cryo, and that's useless on Insanity, And maxing Lift or Shockwave has little effect compared to maxing a passive skill. (Though on a difficulty where every enemy isn't covered in 2 layers of defense, I could see those working).

RamsenC is also right, I started right off the bat with Vanguard on Insanity, and Aside from the Collector ship, there was no part where I died outside of some stupid mistake from not paying attention, or accidently hitting Y. Of course, sometimes mistakes work. Like charging right into the Collossus and ripping it in half ending that battle in under 2minutes. (Which actually sucked cause I like the music there!)

Essentially, Max Charge, the class Passive and you've won as a vanguard. Everything else is just hitting the Overkill button. Still if you havn't tried it (Seems like the few people that post havn't) give Warp shots a go. The only Ammo effective against two defense types (As well as health, so three defense types) and the added ability to do even more damage than Tungsten rounds to health on a lifted enemy is surprisingly awesome.

Modifié par Deflagratio, 19 février 2010 - 02:30 .

[Kurupt87]

didnt list warp ammo because its largely useless imo, shotguns up close 1 hit barriers and you'd lose the cc on health from inferno.
edit: put in imo

Modifié par Kurupt87, 19 février 2010 - 02:31 .

[thisisme8]

masseffectfan00 wrote...

I'm having a super hard time deciding what bonus skill I should get

Whatever you want.  Your regular skills round you out pretty well, so just pick the most interesting one you can find.  None of the bonus skills are going to be "The Secret to Beating ME2 as a Vanguard on Insanity."

Deflagratio wrote...

I've tried Cryo, and that's useless on Insanity,

[masseffectfan00]

Also max out biotic charge first or assault mastery

[Deflagratio]

Kurupt87 wrote...

didnt list warp ammo because its largely useless, shotguns up close 1 hit barriers and you'd lose the cc on health from inferno.

I have to disagree. Guardians and Assassin barriers both live through point blank claymoreshots without Warps on, Inferno does almost nothing to Synthetics (A good half or your targets) and Warp shot makes your Tempest SMG the Workhorse over the shotgun. Also, Warps shift emphasis on what shotgun is best. Scimitar with Warp Ammo makes the Claymore with Inferno (Or AP) look like the Shuriken MP.

CC on Inferno works well, but I save that for handcannon shots, since every Handcannon shot will detonate. Much more reliable than having the 1 shotgun slug that would have detonated fly off to oblivion. Particularly effective when dealing with the slow moving Harbingers.

I've tried every bonus ability, and the one I keep going back to is Warp ammo. This isn't so much a fault in the other bonus abilities, more so a fault in the other normal abilities for Vanguard. Seriously, on Insanity, Lift and Shockwave are a quick stun at best.

[Kurupt87]

heavy charge all the way, the 100% shield regen/boost is what keeps the vg from croaking, then champion afterwards for the cd reduction. after that, id recomend inferno and then its a ffa.

[Deflagratio]

thisisme8 wrote...

masseffectfan00 wrote...

I'm having a super hard time deciding what bonus skill I should get

Whatever you want.  Your regular skills round you out pretty well, so just pick the most interesting one you can find.  None of the bonus skills are going to be "The Secret to Beating ME2 as a Vanguard on Insanity."

Deflagratio wrote...

I've tried Cryo, and that's useless on Insanity,

By that I mean, anything with Health stripped off is going to probably die by environment when I charge into it. Health bars on Insanity are down so fast that the abilities that ONLY EFFECT ON HEALTH are largely useless, or so selectively useless, they bear little mention. Even lift and Shockwave are niche abilities. For Shockwave, that Niche is pulling out a hand cannon, and stripping the armor off husks in one shot each,t hen throwing a shockwave to clear all 30 of them. And that hardly requires any level above 2.

[Deflagratio]

Kurupt87 wrote...

heavy charge all the way, the 100% shield regen/boost is what keeps the vg from croaking, then champion afterwards for the cd reduction. after that, id recomend inferno and then its a ffa.

In my newest game (4th vanguard playthrough) I'm expirimenting with the Area charge. Still early in game so I can't say much, but I anticipate reaching that conclusion. But since I try something before talking it down, I need to see just how badly it sucks.

[Kurupt87]

Deflagratio wrote...

Kurupt87 wrote...

didnt list warp ammo because its largely useless, shotguns up close 1 hit barriers and you'd lose the cc on health from inferno.

I have to disagree. Guardians and Assassin barriers both live through point blank claymoreshots without Warps on, Inferno does almost nothing to Synthetics (A good half or your targets) and Warp shot makes your Tempest SMG the Workhorse over the shotgun. Also, Warps shift emphasis on what shotgun is best. Scimitar with Warp Ammo makes the Claymore with Inferno (Or AP) look like the Shuriken MP.

CC on Inferno works well, but I save that for handcannon shots, since every Handcannon shot will detonate. Much more reliable than having the 1 shotgun slug that would have detonated fly off to oblivion. Particularly effective when dealing with the slow moving Harbingers.

I've tried every bonus ability, and the one I keep going back to is Warp ammo. This isn't so much a fault in the other bonus abilities, more so a fault in the other normal abilities for Vanguard. Seriously, on Insanity, Lift and Shockwave are a quick stun at best.

you sure assassins and guardians surviving  1hit kills? a melee afterwards finishes them if not. against mechs, well they all have armour so inferno is handy their (120% instant extra dmg). geth on the other hand is where inferno really falls down, does no dmg to shields and much reduced dmg to health and no cc, but thats why you bring zaeed with squad disruptor against geth. the scim can 1shot a normal geth with disruptor and just over half the upgrades.
edit: also, the shotgun does its aoe every time i shoot
edit2: i assume that headshots are the most common type of shot

Modifié par Kurupt87, 19 février 2010 - 02:53 .

[thisisme8]

Deflagratio wrote...

Kurupt87 wrote...

didnt list warp ammo because its largely useless, shotguns up close 1 hit barriers and you'd lose the cc on health from inferno.

I have to disagree. Guardians and Assassin barriers both live through point blank claymoreshots without Warps on, Inferno does almost nothing to Synthetics (A good half or your targets) and Warp shot makes your Tempest SMG the Workhorse over the shotgun. Also, Warps shift emphasis on what shotgun is best. Scimitar with Warp Ammo makes the Claymore with Inferno (Or AP) look like the Shuriken MP.

The Claymore can 1-shot a Guardian or Assassin with Inferno Rounds.  Never tried it without an ammo power, but I'm pretty sure it will at least strip their barrier.

[Deflagratio]

thisisme8 wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

Kurupt87 wrote...

didnt list warp ammo because its largely useless, shotguns up close 1 hit barriers and you'd lose the cc on health from inferno.

I have to disagree. Guardians and Assassin barriers both live through point blank claymoreshots without Warps on, Inferno does almost nothing to Synthetics (A good half or your targets) and Warp shot makes your Tempest SMG the Workhorse over the shotgun. Also, Warps shift emphasis on what shotgun is best. Scimitar with Warp Ammo makes the Claymore with Inferno (Or AP) look like the Shuriken MP.

The Claymore can 1-shot a Guardian or Assassin with Inferno Rounds.  Never tried it without an ammo power, but I'm pretty sure it will at least strip their barrier.

I've unloaded a Claymore into the dome of a Guardian and only took it's barriers to 18% with full upgrades. (Using Infernos) So maybe my claymore stats are bugged. I wind up sticking with that Scimitar and Warp round combo. Maybe just that combo is ungodly powerful? Have you actually tried that setup. Warp is much better for Fast fire weapons (Scimitar fires 3rounds a second), Infernos are better for High power, slow fire like the Claymore or Hand cannon. Maybe it's just the way I play vanguard. I simply cannot stand the 1 shot reload on that Claymore though. Especially against something like Harbinger or mechs that don't panic on fire, if you charge shoot and then try and get into cover, the damn gun will inturrupt reload. That kills me more than melee'ing a Scion. And it's not like I havn't tried. I was so excited when I got that Heavy shotgun, played through the rest of my first playthrough using it, but found myself using the Tempest because that oneshot reload was a real kick in the pants.

[Meistr_Chef]

Deflagratio, have you tried the Eviscerator shotgun? I probably have a similar playstyle as you do...since I have Warp Ammo as my bonus power (largely for the same reasons), I don't care for the Claymore one-shot reload requirement, and I use my Tempest a lot. I haven't got the Scimitar yet...though the Eviscerator is pretty good so far.



I hate how there is no concrete weapon stats in the game. What a pain in the ass. Is "guesswork" part of the RPG experience? Why not give people the information they need to decide? I couldn't be bothered to do controlled testing in the game, especially in a game this fun. I do enough of that at work.

[Lycidas]

I'm using AP ammo at the moment and it works great IMHO.

[Kurupt87]

Deflagratio wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

Kurupt87 wrote...

didnt list warp ammo because its largely useless, shotguns up close 1 hit barriers and you'd lose the cc on health from inferno.

I have to disagree. Guardians and Assassin barriers both live through point blank claymoreshots without Warps on, Inferno does almost nothing to Synthetics (A good half or your targets) and Warp shot makes your Tempest SMG the Workhorse over the shotgun. Also, Warps shift emphasis on what shotgun is best. Scimitar with Warp Ammo makes the Claymore with Inferno (Or AP) look like the Shuriken MP.

The Claymore can 1-shot a Guardian or Assassin with Inferno Rounds.  Never tried it without an ammo power, but I'm pretty sure it will at least strip their barrier.

I've unloaded a Claymore into the dome of a Guardian and only took it's barriers to 18% with full upgrades. (Using Infernos) So maybe my claymore stats are bugged. I wind up sticking with that Scimitar and Warp round combo. Maybe just that combo is ungodly powerful? Have you actually tried that setup. Warp is much better for Fast fire weapons (Scimitar fires 3rounds a second), Infernos are better for High power, slow fire like the Claymore or Hand cannon. Maybe it's just the way I play vanguard. I simply cannot stand the 1 shot reload on that Claymore though. Especially against something like Harbinger or mechs that don't panic on fire, if you charge shoot and then try and get into cover, the damn gun will inturrupt reload. That kills me more than melee'ing a Scion. And it's not like I havn't tried. I was so excited when I got that Heavy shotgun, played through the rest of my first playthrough using it, but found myself using the Tempest because that oneshot reload was a real kick in the pants.

claymore 1shots nearly everything in game, so i dno whats going on there. inferno is better on scim than any other shotgun, the aoe flinch makes makes it uber powerful, everytime it fires my target and anyone near stops firing. scim fires every 0.6 s so:
0s = 1shot
0.6s= 2nd shot
1.2s = 3rd shot
1.8s = 4th shot etc <<<< all this is "perfect", ie shooting as soon as you can
ap ammo is better for the slower weps because it increases dmg slightly more than inferno, and evi/claymore are all about 1shotting stuff. using claymore its enough with inferno most times to 1shot anything, with the evi its pretty common to be left with a slither of health, although its easier to get headshots due to the tighter spread, so ap ammo is best choice for evi users. to base your bonus skill on fighting collectors, which the shotgun and smg need no help against, as well as having squaddies for warp/concussive shot, is a waste imo.

[coinop25]

Kurupt87 wrote...

claymore 1shots nearly everything in game, so i dno whats going on there. inferno is better on scim than any other shotgun, the aoe flinch makes makes it uber powerful, everytime it fires my target and anyone near stops firing. 

Yeah, I found it more useful to use Inferno on Scimitar than Claymore at all because the DPS is close enough, and shooting multiple times = enemies stagger around for longer before they start shooting you again.

EDIT to answer the OP question: I guess this thread suggests that there is no consensus. I used Area Reave because I wasn't finding Pull or Barrier super useful, but I could see how the instant shield recharge from a point in Barrier could be useful to some.

Modifié par coinop25, 19 février 2010 - 01:59 .

[_Dannok1234]

Ramenc summed things up nicely in the first reply to this thread. Once you have the 2(3) main abilities, everything else is purely down to personal taste and play style, as it's almost redundant

Modifié par Dannok1234, 19 février 2010 - 02:18 .

[Calibretto9]

All in all the Vanguard is an extremely strong class, so the bonus ability isn't a huge factor for them.



This thread already lists a few advantageous abilities: Go with the one you think sounds good and go for it.