97 réponses à ce sujet

[Cuddlezarro]

[Cuddlezarro]

yes that *drunk* who happens to have some of the most insightful conversations during that entire sequence

also what does said drunk have to gain from lying to you? if you take him along he doesnt exactly want to side with the loony cultists

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 20 février 2010 - 04:14 .

[mousestalker]

He's also a dwarf who has been around lyrium and lyrium mines his entire life.

The miraculous powers of the urn are like everything else in the game. There are multiple explanations for why and how they work.

Believe what you will. My city elf rogue is calling dibs on the "Andraste and her disciples" figurine concession.

You just know Alistair will want to collect the whole set.....

Modifié par mousestalker, 20 février 2010 - 04:18 .

[Cuddlezarro]

he wasnt drunk or acting drunk during that entire sequence

so no your *HES A DRUNK* has no grounds

and hes a dwarf they can sense Lyrium and has been around the stuff his entire life and if you do Dagnas quest she writes a book about Lyrium vapors and magic which helps support what Oghren says

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 20 février 2010 - 04:18 .

[Cuddlezarro]

according to the addled dwarf in Orzammar humans cant touch raw lyrium without bleeding from the eyes/nose and stuff and falling ill

but magical vapors are not the same as touching the unprocessed ore plus you only took a pinch of the ashes which isnt exactly alot and people can drink lyrium potions without keeling over

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 20 février 2010 - 04:23 .

[steelfire_dragon]

T he Chantry are scum, and an affront to their own maker.



lets show them the dreaded Unmaker..... and his chant of Darkness.......





and they are just as bad as the chantry

[Dave of Canada]

I'm a "Paladin"-esque character and often go behind the Chantry's back, too ignorant to do the right thing.

[Dave of Canada]

bythebarricades wrote...

I don't know, the Chantry seems to do a lot of good.

A man with a loving family, paying job and loved by everybody still has skeletons in his closet. The Chantry would hunt down and kill any mage who doesn't abide their rules, nor do they care about anything else. They were the ones who slaughtered the elves and burned down their homes, they also don't even bother with the alienage much.

They aren't as evil as people seem to make them be, it's a sense of hope that people cling to just like faith is in real life. There isn't anything that proves it's real or fantasy, but it isn't all sunshine and rainbows either.

[RobinMichelleB]

Wow, I had no idea that Oghren tells you that! I didn't have him in my party when I did this quest the first time around (I hadn't even gotten to Orzammar yet). Thanks for sharing, that is really interesting.

[Harcken]

A personal crusade against old women wearing peasant-crafted sun frocks? Sounds fun !

[Thor Rand Al]

Since this seems to be a subject on the Chantry (whether they are good/needed or not) I kinda want to say something that's been on my mind for a while now lol. 

How do we even know Andraste really is who/what she is?  Reason I even say this is because of some things I've read here n there.  First of all not much is mentioned of Andrate in her younger life except that  she was born a peasant commoner n she was captured by Tevinter forces and became a slave.  There is little explained of what happens to her during her many years as a slave.  Who's to say that she didn't lose it mentally because of all the torture n abuse she might of went through.  Who's to say she wasn't in her right mind when people started listening to this supposed bride of the Maker.  Could it be possible that she was mindlessly ranting n raving n it just happened to catch the right person n it was spread as her being a profit?   This is just speculating is all, I'm not saying it's false or that it's true, I'm just saying what if it's possible?

Yes you go through the gauntlet n you talk to each person that's been in Andreste's life but if you take Oghren he does make that point about the lyrium n it could be true about the vapors getting into the ashes, (which I forgot all about Oghren's conversation in the gauntlet until some people mentioned it on here lol)


Edit

Modifié par Thor Rand Al, 20 février 2010 - 05:44 .

[Realmzmaster]

It just goes to show how good the writers are. You can make an agrument for and against the Chantry. You can make an agrument about the cause of the ashes healing powers. You can make an agrument for or against Andraste being a prophet.

Is lyrium the cause of the tests you encounter? Does lyrium cause the spirits and guardian to appear? Or is the lyrium breaking down the Fade in that area allowing the spirits to interact with the living?

Or is the short exposure to lyrium affecting the PC and party minds? How would one explain the spirits at Soldier's Peak? The Fade appears to be quite real. Where did it come from?

[Highdragonslayer]

bythebarricades wrote...

I don't know, the Chantry seems to do a lot of good.
- At Ostagar, there are a number of priests there to support the men in a difficult time. They likely die alongside the soldiers they are ministering too.
- In Lothering, the Chantry and its Templars are doing their best to facilitate an orderly evacuation. We see how a member of the Chantry is critical of a merchant who isn't helping and isn't afraid to stand up to him.
- In Redcliffe, the Chantry serves as a last resort for the people, as in Lothering.
- Across Ferelden, it runs a board, providing rewards for people engaging in good deeds. In Lothering, a child even mentions that the Chantry rewarded his father for helping fix a widow's roof.
- In Orzammar, you can convince the Shaperate to allow a Chantry because it would serve as a charitable organization to help the casteless and orphans.
- It recruits and trains Templars to keep mages in line and hunt down maleficarum, some of the most dangerest threats to society.

     Ehh.. for that first point it seems to me that the chantry seemed like it caused ostagar to be overwhelmed. After the war meeting a mage offers to do the signal fire instead of wasting grey wardens on it, however a chrantry priest says some rude self rightous thing and doesn't let him.

     If you notice around the time the signal fire was lit, the darkspawn just finished wiping out the army without loghain's help, and that is probibly the reason why he had to pull out because too many lives were lost, and he'd just lose another army. Perhaps he believed that grey wardens did betray fereldan because the signal fire was deleyad.

     Also in redcliffe and lothering it's more of a community of people the chantry being apart of it to help, also the chanter's board is just something for mercanaries, if there was a bounty board or a job board it would be morally equivelent.

     Letting a dwarf start a chantry in ozrammar may cause an exalted march on the dwarves.

     It recruits and trains templars to make sure mages are kept in a tower for most of their lives and to be brought out to fight and be treated like **** by everyone. Those who want to live free lives are branded apostates and are hunted down by templars, which usually causes the mages to turn to blood magic in desperation causing abominations to be made.

[Indistinct_Void]

Highdragonslayer wrote...
    Letting a dwarf start a chantry in ozrammar may cause an exalted march on the dwarves.

Opening the Orzammar Chantry doesn't potentially cause an Exalted March: the persecution of the Orzammar Chantry does.

[Highdragonslayer]

[/quote]

Opening the Orzammar Chantry doesn't potentially cause an Exalted March: the persecution of the Orzammar Chantry does.
[/quote]

Exactly why they shouldn't be involved in ozrammar, the last time a race got assimilated... well look at the elves.

[KnightofPhoenix]

While the lyrium being present in the temple is most probably true, I find it hard to believe that the cult of andraste was there for centuries basically and they seem to go unaffected by it.
And keep in mind that the lyrium Oghren was talking about was in at the entrance. The Ashes are in a different temple so to speak, on the mountain top. THere is no evidence that there is lyrium there.

@ OP. Abolishing an organisation and a religion that has been present for millenia? I don' think so. The process of secularisation in Europe took centuries to take form, and it often took very violent and atrocious directions (French revolution). So I would personally rather not. Not to mention that the center of the Chantry is Orlais, which I don't think will relinquish it's control over the Chantry that easily.

And as a sidenote, the Chantry has, so far, been more of a positive force rather than a negative one (althought its potential to be negative and regressive is very high and probably inevitable). But from what I have seen in Origins, the Chantry is more positive than negative, despite all this "bride of the maker" nonsense.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 février 2010 - 06:46 .

[Highdragonslayer]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And as a sidenote, the Chantry has, so far, been more of a positive force rather than a negative one (althought its potential to be negative and regressive is very high and probably inevitable). But from what I have seen in Origins, the Chantry is more positive than negative, despite all this "bride of the maker" nonsense.

Backstabbing your elven allies and dooming many men to darkspawn isn't what i'd call positive.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Highdragonslayer wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And as a sidenote, the Chantry has, so far, been more of a positive force rather than a negative one (althought its potential to be negative and regressive is very high and probably inevitable). But from what I have seen in Origins, the Chantry is more positive than negative, despite all this "bride of the maker" nonsense.

Backstabbing your elven allies and dooming many men to darkspawn isn't what i'd call positive.

Backstabbing?
By the time of the exalted march against the elves, they were no longer allies.

As for the darkspawn. The blame goes to everyone. Ferelden is a ****ed up coutnry. But to suggest that it's solely the chantry's fault is just purely self serving. From all the actors involved, the chantry has the least blame really.

Try to look at it from an impartial and objective point of view.  
  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 février 2010 - 06:56 .

[Cuddlezarro]

And keep in mind that the lyrium Oghren was talking about was in at the entrance. The Ashes are in a different temple so to speak, on the mountain top. THere is no evidence that there is lyrium there.

except that dialogue I posted concerning Oghren was from the gauntlet infact he said that right infront of andraste's ashes when leliena had her reaction and he said that the ashes might not be as mystical as they think they are

he also doesnt bring up lyrium at all during the first part of the temple infact the only time he butted into a cutscene during that part was when he said he wanted to kill the dragon infront of Kolgrim

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 20 février 2010 - 08:22 .