130 réponses à ce sujet

[nenri]

The Angry One wrote...

Actually the Quarians are another variant since you can tell them to back down on their little war, and everyone listens to Shep except you-know-who

I was wondering about that, that little dialogue option about fighting for the homeworld or settling somewhere else. Wondered if it meant the quarian fleet changed its mind but then I remembered Xen explaining the politics of the admiralty board : Gerrel for war, koris for peace, her on the fence, shala'raan swinging with whoever replaces Rael'Zorah. if you hid the evidence, Xen clearly says the quarian will fight for their homeworld, and if you disclosed it, Koris' agenda seems to spread. 

Now in Tali convos it is hinted she could become an admiral, replacing her father and, well, Tali is not very pro-peace. I believe in ME3 convincing admiral Tali to continue the war with the geth or make peace will decide the shape of your army. If she survived. 

Xen's email is interesting because she says they will take back their homeworld with the greatest army of synthetics the galaxy will have ever known. This opens wwaayy too many possibilities : either quarians and geth make peace and they fight at your side (and you defeated Xen's naughty plans) , or you help Xen and re-enslave the geth to the quarians for the reaper war, or the quarians having now an even bigger force will clash even more with the reunited geth thus leaving nothing but scraps on both ends of the homeworld war leaving you with not much, or you didn't reunited the geth and the true geths are obliterated, or...

so yeah, ME3, probably epic. 

Modifié par nenri, 19 février 2010 - 05:55 .

[Al-the-Catman]

"Beings of light"  Its not a "deus ex machina" b/c 1. It was mentioned in ME1 as a background entry  2. The "delerict Reaper" mission is directly related to another background ME1 planet entry. 3. If 1 background entry became important, why not 2 or more?  This may lead to an ancient countermeasure against the Reapers, maybe even into their origins.  Don't pass this aside, I'm just using evidence from the games themselves to back up theories.

Large # of troops means squat against living ships unless you have a matching # of ships to house said troops.  Do you send infantry alone to fight an entiry Navy?  I don't think so!

If you saved the Rachni, they build ships, listen to the galatic news, scout ships are mentioned, the Queen's egg was found on a ship; as fast as they produce, that means a lot of ships.

If you save heretics, the Geth may trust organics enough to lend a hand; I've heard on the fourms that the heretic Geth make about only 5% of the total Geth...but Geth are programs, not the actual bodies, so I'm not entirely sure about this 1....but more the merrier!

More ships with Thanix cannons, the Turians developed it 1st from Soverign's remains if I'm not mistaken.

[adam_grif]

I really hope the Turian fleet has new dreadnoughts with upscaled Thanix cannons. Turians ftw.

[Rilke21]

Who cares? It's going to be a brain-dead shooter either way.

[nenri]

Al-the-Catman wrote...

"Beings of light"  Its not a "deus ex machina" b/c 1. It was mentioned in ME1 as a background entry  2. The "delerict Reaper" mission is directly related to another background ME1 planet entry. 3. If 1 background entry became important, why not 2 or more?  This may lead to an ancient countermeasure against the Reapers, maybe even into their origins. 

...and we have our mcGuffin. Good eyes, nice find. 

[Mox Ruuga]

I've never understood the whole recruitment drive idea.

Rachni and krogan are strong species... in ground combat. They might have had fleets in the past, but both races are shadows of their former selves. The quarians do have a lot of ships, but only a tiny minority of those are actual warships, the rest are freighters crammed with civilians. The geth might be of some use, but how well would their combined forces last against even a few Reapers? One of which was almost enough to overpower the Citadel defenders AND the Alliance reinforcements.

Ashley said as much near the end of ME1: "What use will I be in the coming war? What use will my assault rifle be against fleets of AI dreadnoughts?"

The Reaper threat will be ended some other way, than open combat.

[Al-the-Catman]

nenri wrote...

Al-the-Catman wrote...

"Beings of light"  Its not a "deus ex machina" b/c 1. It was mentioned in ME1 as a background entry  2. The "delerict Reaper" mission is directly related to another background ME1 planet entry. 3. If 1 background entry became important, why not 2 or more?  This may lead to an ancient countermeasure against the Reapers, maybe even into their origins. 

...and we have our mcGuffin. Good eyes, nice find. 

Thanks!

I've had a therad about this for a bit, just want people to know about & stop making baseless conjectures.  If no1 can find anything in the games for evidence, then look at what other franchises may have inspired each element of the ME universe.  What are the Reapers?  An army of gigantic biomechanical cuddle fish...of DOOM!!! Probably inspired by Star Trek's Borg, HP Lovecraft's Cthulu, & Farscape's living ship (or at least the Levithan of Dis is).

[GuardianAngel470]

The Angry One wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...
Quarians as well, they DO have the largest fleet int he galaxy afterall... 

I'm betting Admiral Morrigan is going to be a major antagonist in ME3 though with her wicked plans to enslave the Geth and all.

I plan on killing her if the chance is there.  At the very least keep her far away from the geth on penalty of death.  If it were a choice between allowing her on a geth warship and leaving her to die, I would leave her to die without a second thought.

[Abirn]

This is not dragon age in space, this is much more sophisticated.

[Al-the-Catman]

Abirn wrote...

This is not dragon age in space, this is much more sophisticated.

Futurisic guns are much more sophisticated than swords. Given you have enough ammo, of course:?

[GuardianAngel470]

I think you would have to fight smart, tailoring your plan to account for your weaknesses. Reapers can destroy shields and ships in seconds so in order to combat that you never give them a firing solution. Very short-range FTL jumps, coordinated fleet wide. That though is something only the geth can do, with a higher order runtime controlling every warship and all the runtimes linked together, it'd be like making sure your right hand doesn't hit your left hand when running. But for the shields, you would have a boarding team board the reaper and take out it's mass effect core, bringing down it's shields. After that you have the other fleets take out the reapers.

[nenri]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

I've never understood the whole recruitment drive idea.

Thematically it works, though. Against an armada of machines who sees life as chaotic and something to be consumed and weeded out on a galactic timetable, every sapient species when previously divided by strife and war unite under Shepard to take a stand and break the cycle. Life is a struggle, finds a way, strives and so on. 

(of couse it gets fun with the geth and the very definition of life  ^__^) 

[Al-the-Catman]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

I think you would have to fight smart, tailoring your plan to account for your weaknesses. Reapers can destroy shields and ships in seconds so in order to combat that you never give them a firing solution. Very short-range FTL jumps, coordinated fleet wide. That though is something only the geth can do, with a higher order runtime controlling every warship and all the runtimes linked together, it'd be like making sure your right hand doesn't hit your left hand when running. But for the shields, you would have a boarding team board the reaper and take out it's mass effect core, bringing down it's shields. After that you have the other fleets take out the reapers.

If the Geth did the boarding, no problem; if organics did the boarding, BIG problem; they would just turn up the juice on their indoctrination ability; heck this posses a  problem to space combat in general, if there are enough of them, unless a way is disovered to block the "signal", they could fry our brains very quickly or make us fire on 1 another.

[adam_grif]

Al-the-Catman wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

I think you would have to fight smart, tailoring your plan to account for your weaknesses. Reapers can destroy shields and ships in seconds so in order to combat that you never give them a firing solution. Very short-range FTL jumps, coordinated fleet wide. That though is something only the geth can do, with a higher order runtime controlling every warship and all the runtimes linked together, it'd be like making sure your right hand doesn't hit your left hand when running. But for the shields, you would have a boarding team board the reaper and take out it's mass effect core, bringing down it's shields. After that you have the other fleets take out the reapers.

If the Geth did the boarding, no problem; if organics did the boarding, BIG problem; they would just turn up the juice on their indoctrination ability; heck this posses a  problem to space combat in general, if there are enough of them, unless a way is disovered to block the "signal", they could fry our brains very quickly or make us fire on 1 another.

Indoctrination is apparently based on infrasound and subliminal messaging. You're familiar with how there's no sound in space? Yeah.

All this talk of boarding parties is ludicrous, if you can get a man on board a reaper then you can also get a bomb on board a reaper. The military vessels in Mass Effect run with antimatter torches as their primary means of propulsion. This is to say that you can get man-portable megatonne yield antimatter bombs.

Why fight your way to the core when you can just detonate one anywhere and blow it to pieces? Their hull is by no means unusually strong or resilliant, the Normandy hulled it once it's barriers were down.

[Talogrungi]

adam_grif wrote...

Why fight your way to the core when you can just detonate one anywhere and blow it to pieces? Their hull is by no means unusually strong or resilliant, the Normandy hulled it once it's barriers were down.

Important point: It was Sovereigns kinetic barriers that were impenetrable, not her hull.
Important point #2: Sovereigns weaponry was based on superheated metal, and was able to penetrate kinetic barries with a single shot.
Important point #3: Thanix Magnetic-Hydrodynamic Weapon. Mini version of Sovereigns own weapons.

We saw the Thanix cannon rip apart a Collector ship from long range at the end of ME2 (if you upgraded, ofc) .. do we not now posess the technology to field a fleet that would be a significant threat to the Reaper armada? .. it's conjectured that Reapers are only "born" once every 50,000 years, and (at least) as far back as 37 million years.

That's only ~740 ships. Even if we round up to 1000, given that we (possibly) have the ability to match them with cruiser-mountable weapons, it's not beyond the realms of possibility for an alliance of all the galactic races to field a contending force.

[adam_grif]

The Thanix cannon on the Normandy is better than conventional weapons, but even without it the Normandy has no trouble killing the Collector curiser, it just has to get closer to it and takes some fire in the process. This is to say, although more advanced than an Alliance ship, it is by no means in the same league as a reaper.



My solution? Nukes. You can stick megatonne yield nukes into the cargo bay of a Kodiak, which can go @ high relativistic speeds to bypass point defense, then detonate as soon as it gets as far as it can without slamming into the shields.



Near hull detonation will ruin it.



If this isn't feasible for some reason, nuclear shaped charges, and if that doesn't work for some reason, bomb pumped lasers.



We don't need to reverse engineer tech to kill the bastards, we just need to use common sense and military projects from Earth's 20th century.

[Talogrungi]

adam_grif wrote...

The Thanix cannon on the Normandy is better than conventional weapons, but even without it the Normandy has no trouble killing the Collector curiser, it just has to get closer to it and takes some fire in the process. This is to say, although more advanced than an Alliance ship, it is by no means in the same league as a reaper.

Hmm, I interepreted this part of the fight as Joker having to fly through the Collectors barriers before the Normandys weapons were effective, whereas the Thanix cannon was fired at range and cut through the barriers due to the projectile being a slow-moving stream of superheated metallic alloy rather than a directed energy or high-speed projectile round.

[hardvice]

SaulTighsEyePatch wrote...

I dont know how you'd defeat the Reapers in ME3, but I hope its not some BS tactic like "upload a virus to the Reapers that causes them all to shut down lolololol!!!111" That would be retarded, but I have faith in Bioware that they won't do something like that.

I'm pretty sure you end up making them play Tic-Tac-Toe with themselves until they realize that war is pointless.

[adam_grif]

Talogrungi wrote...


Hmm, I interepreted this part of the fight as Joker having to fly through the Collectors barriers before the Normandys weapons were effective, whereas the Thanix cannon was fired at range and cut through the barriers due to the projectile being a slow-moving stream of superheated metallic alloy rather than a directed energy or high-speed projectile round.

If it flew through a cruiser's kinetic barriers it would have been like running headlong into a brick wall. They're the same thing we have acting as shields for infantry, but larger. If you could just breeze through kinetic barriers like that, then missiles would be the most effective weapons for ship to ship combat, by orders of magnitude.

[Gabey5]

yes it is dao in space

[Talogrungi]

adam_grif wrote...

If it flew through a cruiser's kinetic barriers it would have been like running headlong into a brick wall. They're the same thing we have acting as shields for infantry, but larger. If you could just breeze through kinetic barriers like that, then missiles would be the most effective weapons for ship to ship combat, by orders of magnitude.

Kinetic barriers are described as being repulsive mass effect fields designed to deflect fast moving projectiles, i.e. high-velocity round and directed energy weapons. Slow moving explosive rounds such as missiles, torpedos and rockets would be vulnerable to being shot down by point defense weapons (which I think is what hit the Normandy when it attacked without the Thanix?) .. A bolt of superheated liquid would be impervious to point defense lasers and travelling slow enough not to be repulsed by kinetic barriers.

That's my interpretation, at least .. impossible to be definitive when discussing sci-fi physics.

[Kalfear]

Archereon wrote...

Everyone seems to think that the plotline of ME3 is going to be ANOTHER round of recruiting, but that this time, you'll be recruiting factions from a list instead of people...Give me a freaking break!

Did any of you see that final cutscene?  Soviergn wasn't BSing you when he said "Our numbers will darken the skies of every world."

If the Reapers actually arrive in the Milky Way, we're f**ked, even with the forces of the entire galaxy united, there's no way that we could even take on a small portion of the Reapers...If your enemy is a race thousands of years more advanced than you, and he outnumbers you, your screwed.



If they ignore that fact though, and do the "Unite the galaxy against the Reapers" BS, Mass Effects story will go in the same bin as  pocahontas, err I mean "Avatar."  A retarded story where a bunch of tribal hippies beat a space age military force, in fact, it would be worse.  In this case, it would be a space age military beats a post singularity biomechanical type 3 civilization even when hopelessly outnumbered, rather than a bunch of mercenary soldiers outnumbered 100:1 against bow wielding hippies.

a

Never really thought about it but GOD I HOPE SO!

DA:O was 10 times the story of ME2 so ME3 could only be better the closer they followed DA:O.

Hope they bring the influence system from DA:O over as well!

[Looy]

Archereon wrote...

Do you guys really think Mass Effect 3 is going to be Dragon Age in space?

Maybe, wouldn't be a bad thing though.

[adam_grif]

Talogrungi wrote...

Kinetic barriers are described as being repulsive mass effect fields designed to deflect fast moving projectiles, i.e. high-velocity round and directed energy weapons. Slow moving explosive rounds such as missiles, torpedos and rockets would be vulnerable to being shot down by point defense weapons (which I think is what hit the Normandy when it attacked without the Thanix?)

I just watched it on youtube, it looked like it got hit by debris when it was flying past, not point defense weapons.

The Normandy's barriers activated when it was in the debris field, so the Normandy's relative velocity to a stationary object was enough to trigger them. So when the collector ship is moving at them and they it, the combined relative velocity is substantially more, and the kinetic barriers certianly would have activated to intercept them.

Barriers do activate for torpedoes, because it's explicitly mentioned that disruptor torps activate mass increasing fields to punch through the barriers. If they ignored them, this would be redundant.

A bolt of superheated liquid would be impervious to point defense
lasers and travelling slow enough not to be repulsed by kinetic
barriers.

That's my interpretation, at least .. impossible to be definitive when discussing sci-fi physics.

The reaper guns are moving at least as fast as conventional ammo judging by the speeds on screen in the cutscenes, possibly faster. Beam weapons are apparently more effective against shielding, as demonstrated by collector ship particle beam weapons. The Thanix cannons and reaper main guns are closer to a beam weapon in that they are firing a stream of liquid metal instead of a single solid slug.