93 réponses à ce sujet

[Gill Kaiser]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

You know I always felt it was unfair how Shepard was (statistically speaking) the strongest person in the entire universe. I mean he gets 52 squad pts in total while the others only get 30-31. I really don't think he needs to be THAT strong to lead his team. After all he is just the leader. No one ever said he needs to be the strongest.

Considering the shared cooldown and the ability system in ME2, more squad points doesn't necessarily equal more power. It equals more versatility.

[Bartlebyfinch]

Lord Exar wrote...

You know, in ME1 when I played as Adept, I felt like the strongest biotic on the team. I was a biotic god, so to speak. In ME2, I felt like my biotic abilities should fail in comparison to people like Samara and Jack. Made me feel like less of a power house.

Interesting.  Are you speaking from a story/cinematics POV?  Samara and Jack are ungodly biotic powerhouses who put an Adept Shepard's meager biotic abilities to shame - according to the story/cinematics.  In terms of their actual abilities within the game, though... Shepard is more than twice as powerful as either of them.  

Shepard's biotics do more damage, he has a larger range of abilities, he has the ability to customize what he is able to learn, and (most importantly), the cooldown on all of his abilities is MUCH faster than those of any of the other characters.  Since Jack is "possibly the most powerful human biotic ever created" and Samara is a powerful biotic among a race where biotics are the norm, it is probably safe to assume that an adept Shepard is possibly the most powerful biotic in the known galaxy.  I will agree with Exar though, that the game doesn't make it seem like he/she is very powerful.  

Here's the funny part - In ME1, where you DO feel a bit more powerful when you play a biotic, and your team's abilities aren't really played up very much... it is arguable that you AREN'T the most powerful biotic in the game.  Granted, nobody could do the Bastion Stasis abuse thing as well as you, but the wider range of powers on everyone, the lack of a global cooldown (which makes Shepard's faster timer an even bigger advantage) and the very powerful class powers that your team-mates had access to made for a much closer to level playing field. 


Of course, a lot of this has to do with the fact that biotics are so weak in general in ME2.  Soldier Shepard would kill Adept Shepard 10/10 times in a 1 on 1 fight... and that is DEFINITELY a change from the last game.

[jklinders]

trh5001 wrote...

Why does everyone think Grunts all that he gets a cheap shot on Shep and you still pull a gun on him forcing a draw. Also Shep can just talk anyone into anything at anytime.

Well except for the turian councillor "Ah Reapers"*renegade interrupt slap*

[Alamar2078]

I wouldn't worry about Grunt's Fortification / Jacob's Barrier / etc. ... Shepard has the almighty PLOT SHIELD so he's better than any of them.

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If you look at the respect that Wrex and Grunt give Shepard [IMHO] they believe that Shepard is in another league -- That's quite a statement from a warrior race with way too much pride. TIM brought Shepard back from the dead [and likely spent almost the entire operating budget to do so and give Shepard a ship] because he thought he was so important. Tali thinks that "billions" is well spent.

Samara couldn't beat Nihilus so I doubt Jack could do much either. I suspect Saren was even better [Shep beat him] so I think we can rule out the pure biotics.

In a standup one-on-one fight I think he beats any of his companions. This doesn't even factor in the "John Sheridan" [B5] leadership qualities.

Heck with what Shepard has done it wouldn't surpise me to see the Blue Suns or Eclipse be given "flee on sight" orders concerning Shepard.

******************************************

EDIT:  IMHO an adept Shepard is NOT more powerful in a crude sense than either Jack or Samara biotically.  IIRC Samara may even have a better in game weapon choice - logically she has had more time for training at least.  However what makes a true master is not whether you're the strongest, or the fastest, or the toughest --- it's the ability to use what you have to its max while limiting [or turning against the wielder] what they are trying to do.  Using the code against Samara or getting Jack to rush in blindly would be [obvious] ways of possibly beating them without being "stronger".

Modifié par Alamar2078, 19 février 2010 - 03:37 .

[NICKjnp]

Shepard is so strong and intimidating that every enemy on Insanity ignores your squad and goes directly to Shepard. He puts off some serious threat.

[rabbitchannel]

Bartlebyfinch wrote...

Lord Exar wrote...

You know, in ME1 when I played as Adept, I felt like the strongest biotic on the team. I was a biotic god, so to speak. In ME2, I felt like my biotic abilities should fail in comparison to people like Samara and Jack. Made me feel like less of a power house.

Interesting.  Are you speaking from a story/cinematics POV?  Samara and Jack are ungodly biotic powerhouses who put an Adept Shepard's meager biotic abilities to shame - according to the story/cinematics.  In terms of their actual abilities within the game, though... Shepard is more than twice as powerful as either of them.  

Shepard's biotics do more damage, he has a larger range of abilities, he has the ability to customize what he is able to learn, and (most importantly), the cooldown on all of his abilities is MUCH faster than those of any of the other characters.  Since Jack is "possibly the most powerful human biotic ever created" and Samara is a powerful biotic among a race where biotics are the norm, it is probably safe to assume that an adept Shepard is possibly the most powerful biotic in the known galaxy.  I will agree with Exar though, that the game doesn't make it seem like he/she is very powerful.  

Here's the funny part - In ME1, where you DO feel a bit more powerful when you play a biotic, and your team's abilities aren't really played up very much... it is arguable that you AREN'T the most powerful biotic in the game.  Granted, nobody could do the Bastion Stasis abuse thing as well as you, but the wider range of powers on everyone, the lack of a global cooldown (which makes Shepard's faster timer an even bigger advantage) and the very powerful class powers that your team-mates had access to made for a much closer to level playing field. 


Of course, a lot of this has to do with the fact that biotics are so weak in general in ME2.  Soldier Shepard would kill Adept Shepard 10/10 times in a 1 on 1 fight... and that is DEFINITELY a change from the last game.

I think this mindset stems from Jack and Samara's cut scenes where they show ridiculously powerful displays of biotic manipulation. If there were some scene where adept Shepard whips up a biotic maelstrom it wouldn't be the case. 

[Beechwell]

Of course from a gameplay point of view Shepard has to be able to deal with anything the world throws at her. But from a story perspective, I don't think Shepard is necessarily stronger/better than anyone else, or at least I hope he isn't. Otherwise the whole story becomes a bit boring; it's like watching a boxer full of steroids beat down his non-enhanced opponent.

Heroism comes mostly from overcoming your own shortcomings, and winning agaisnt the odds. Which is why I wish there were some story instances with Shep actually losing a brawl for a change, or even being wrong about something.

[Thresher Maw]

Well I mean, Wrex and Aria fought against each other for several days straight in an enemy filled base. Admittedly we don't really know the specifics, but I can't imagine Shepard having the stamina to make it through such a battle.

[Valmy]

Shepard is a charismatic leader and a complete badass.

Anyway of course s/he is better than Wrex and co. since s/he gets more skill points to spend.

Modifié par Valmy, 19 février 2010 - 04:16 .

[Sleepicub09]

HomicidialFrog wrote...

Are you kidding me? Shepard's a Zombie Cyborg and even before that he was the Chuck Norris of the Universe.

Unless your an Engineer or a Sentinel he's the more powerfuler than ANY of those. Grunt is probally the only one that could beat him in a 1 on 1 fight.

actually sentinel is pretty powerful this time around 

[The Governator]

HomicidialFrog wrote...

Are you kidding me? Shepard's a Zombie Cyborg

No

Wrong

I cannot accept that.  zombies are as trite and played out as vampires.  Might as well have a twilight theme in there.

Shepard is at worst resurrected.  He or she is alive.

[Vaenier]

Shepard is so badass, hell itself spit him back out. He is a zombie cyborg that have more kills of hostiles than the rest of the Alliance military combined. He has destroyed a reaper, a thorian, a threshermaw, and several colossi ON FOOT. He defeated a rachni outbreak no other person could have.

He is a Reaper. o..o

[The Governator]

I only play soldiers.  Shocktroopers.  I figure Shepard ( my Shepards ) are the ultimate soldiers. 

Consider Thane's loyalty quest.  Kolyat dropped (but did not kill) a Krogan bodyguard with one shot.  My Shepard (anyone's) is skilled enough to do similarly.  Only without a weapon would Shepard (a non biotic anyway) be smeared by jack or Samara or Miranda or whomever.  With a weapon, Shepard would win.

[IndomitusRex]

Grunt gets a nod in the "who's most powerful" discussions because he's a krogan. It might not translate that well in-game, but krogans are feared the galaxy over because they are absolute terrors in combat. They're not like Klingons, who are generally just overly aggressive and into melee combat. They are scaly destruction on two legs. Seriously, all of the Citadel races feared for their continued existence because the rachni were absolutely devastating them. So what do they do? They find a race that's even more devastating, give them some technology, and say "win us a war." And what do the krogan do? They make the rachni, who were threatening to destroy all of the Citadel races, extinct (pretty much).



Now here's Grunt, the genetically pure, physically perfected apex of the krogan race. Properly equipped, Grunt is more than a match for several commandos of lesser races. But then again, so is Commander Shepard. Put Grunt and Shepard at opposite ends of a football field with cover, and I'm not sure who would come out alive, but it would be a helluva fight. When Grunt rushed Shepard upon coming out of his tank, he had Shepard dead to rights. Yeah, Shepard had a pistol pointed at Grunt's guts, but with all the armour, thick hide, and redundant organs Grunt has, I can't imagine a pistol, even a point blank range, doing anything more than pissing Grunt off.



Shepard's best chance is a headshot from a long way off..

[cronshaw8]

Shepard is Luke Skywalker if he was played by Charles Bronson and Sergio Leone wrote Star Wars.

And Isaac Hayes wrote the soundtrack.

[Den Late]

Baseline human Shepard was probably not all that special, just a badass human with determinator power.

Shepard as seen in ME1 and ME2 on the other hand is probably a whole other deal. Then you have badass human determinator aided by a crapload of implants and augementations. Especially in ME2, you can drink stuff that would kill any normal human, headbutt Krogans and to as Garrus said, the Collectors killed Shepard and it only seemed to ****** him off.

So I basically think Shepard would win against pretty much any of his team members one on one. Even if it was bare fist fighting. Mainly because the bastard just wouldn't quit and all those augmentations would make him durable as hell as well as strong as hell.

[Weiser_Cain]

Chuck Norris sucks, stop comparing cool characters to him.

[The Governator]

Den Late wrote...

Baseline human Shepard was probably not all that special, just a badass human with determinator power.

Shepard as seen in ME1 and ME2 on the other hand is probably a whole other deal. Then you have badass human determinator aided by a crapload of implants and augementations. Especially in ME2, you can drink stuff that would kill any normal human, headbutt Krogans and to as Garrus said, the Collectors killed Shepard and it only seemed to ****** him off.

So I basically think Shepard would win against pretty much any of his team members one on one. Even if it was bare fist fighting. Mainly because the bastard just wouldn't quit and all those augmentations would make him durable as hell as well as strong as hell.

You're assuming an awful lot. 

Shepard is not necessarily 'implanted'...especially in ME1.  Mine were not.  Just soldiers.  Hardy, extremely well trained, determined and naturally gifted with reflexes and timing. 

[lltoon]

Shep's pretty damn powerful...

[KainrycKarr]

Shepard is the best. Period. And is always a biotic in my games, so i find the "oh but so and so is biotic" argument nullified.

[KainrycKarr]

The Governator wrote...

Den Late wrote...

Baseline human Shepard was probably not all that special, just a badass human with determinator power.

Shepard as seen in ME1 and ME2 on the other hand is probably a whole other deal. Then you have badass human determinator aided by a crapload of implants and augementations. Especially in ME2, you can drink stuff that would kill any normal human, headbutt Krogans and to as Garrus said, the Collectors killed Shepard and it only seemed to ****** him off.

So I basically think Shepard would win against pretty much any of his team members one on one. Even if it was bare fist fighting. Mainly because the bastard just wouldn't quit and all those augmentations would make him durable as hell as well as strong as hell.

You're assuming an awful lot. 

Shepard is not necessarily 'implanted'...especially in ME1.  Mine were not.  Just soldiers.  Hardy, extremely well trained, determined and naturally gifted with reflexes and timing. 

All alliance soldiers have enhancements, it's mentioned in the codex somewhere...too lazy for to find it.
But it's irrelevant, since all soldiers had the same baseline enhancements.

[Gill Kaiser]

The Governator wrote...

Den Late wrote...

Baseline human Shepard was probably not all that special, just a badass human with determinator power.

Shepard as seen in ME1 and ME2 on the other hand is probably a whole other deal. Then you have badass human determinator aided by a crapload of implants and augementations. Especially in ME2, you can drink stuff that would kill any normal human, headbutt Krogans and to as Garrus said, the Collectors killed Shepard and it only seemed to ****** him off.

So I basically think Shepard would win against pretty much any of his team members one on one. Even if it was bare fist fighting. Mainly because the bastard just wouldn't quit and all those augmentations would make him durable as hell as well as strong as hell.

You're assuming an awful lot. 

Shepard is not necessarily 'implanted'...especially in ME1.  Mine were not.  Just soldiers.  Hardy, extremely well trained, determined and naturally gifted with reflexes and timing. 

Umm. You realise that no matter what class you choose in ME2, Shepard has a crapload of cybernetic augmentations on top of the ones that were used to bring him back to life? Soldiers arguably have the most cybernetics, because the other classes rely on their biotics/omni-tool more.

Anyway, as stated, in ME2 Shepard has definately become somewhat of a Determinator even in-universe, considering the fact that he is the first human to survive the poison that the Batarian bartender spiked his drink with.

In ME1, Shepard probably had the basic level of genetic upgrades and minor cybernetics, like all Alliance soldiers. He wasn't particularly enhanced at that point. His strengths consisted of extreme willpower and mental fortitude (considering he survived the Prothean beacon transfer), and natural leadership skills. In ME2 he still has those things, but his body's been upgraded to be equally extraordinary.

[Alamar2078]

In cinematics we've seen Krogan go down in one shot. I'm sure Shepard wouldn't let a potential berserker out of his cage unless he was confident he could handle himself just fine. Even Grunt admits that Shepard has no equal [as a Battlemaster]. Wrex seems to think it's obvious that any Krogan Shepard went against [Warlord Okeer] wouldn't be alive afterwards.



That much respect from a Krogan should say everything that needs to be said.



Although barehanded in an otherwise empty 30x30 room a lot of Shepard's companions could take him down. Get Shepard armored up and on a battlefield fully equipped and he's a beast ... no doubt about it.

[Llandaryn]

So just how powerful is Shepard anyway?

He's a level 100 spacemancer.

[Pacifien]

Shepard is my Battlemaster. He has no match.