46 réponses à ce sujet

[Sanguinerin]

Now, I have a general question and wonder if anyone has tried this. *Spoilers*

What happens if you side with the Templars and release Jowan before the Connor ritual? Is this where the "there's nothing else we can do" plot comes in and you're forced to kill Connor? I actually had forgotten about that possibility until I wrote this, but I still wonder if there can be any sort of happy ending while still siding the the Templars? I'm hoping to make Wynne the First Enchanter, and it seems like siding with them is my only option to do that.

(And I don't consider killing Isolde or Connor to be happy, especially Connor for those of you who know what epilogue that brings up about Isolde. Not to mention after killing Connor on my one evil playthrough, I didn't have the heart to play an evil character anymore because of the heart-breaking scene with Isolde and made him have a "change of heart" for the rest of the game.)

[sylvanaerie]

Yea if you don't save the mages, someone has to die at Redcliffe. Either Isolde dies so Jowan can do the ritual or you are forced to kill Connor. The only happy way it can end is if you save Irving at the Circle and he is alive to do the ritual with Lyrium and some of the other mages from the Circle.

[Sanguinerin]

I figured as much. Thanks for responding!

[sylvanaerie]

Yea my first time playing I really borked up saving the Circle (I just coudln't seem to get the litany fired off right) and DIDN"T realize I hadn't saved the mages till I got to the Connor part of the game. I went ahead and sacrificed Isolde but even though I hate that woman, I felt pretty crappy and just deleted the game and started over. It was okay, I had made a lot of mistakes up to that point and was wanting to remake my PC anyway.

[Sanguinerin]

I'm trying to go through the game one more time with the character I want for Awakening. Wynne being my favorite character, I want to see her again. My best guess (and this is only a guess) is that the only way to ensure you see her is if she's still around as enchanter. If that's the case, I also want to spare Jowan, so I might just have to choose Connor. I'm hoping that's the right path to see Wynne again, anyway. If not, looks like I'll replay one more time before I fully go in depth on Awakening and not kill him!

Modifié par HallowedWarden, 19 février 2010 - 07:06 .

[CalJones]

Let Isolde die - it's not that unhappy.

[Kryyptehk]

CalJones wrote...

Let Isolde die - it's not that unhappy.

It's better than killing Connor anyway, atleast in my opinion. I find the "kill Connor" ending terribly depressing.

[e-ver]

Kryyptehk wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Let Isolde die - it's not that unhappy.

It's better than killing Connor anyway, atleast in my opinion. I find the "kill Connor" ending terribly depressing.

I usually kill Connor. I hate doing it, most of my characters hate doing it, but I still choose this path, because for me, it makes the most sense for the Warden to do it this way.

Allowing Jowan to do the ritual seems very risky, your character either knows nothing at all about him, other than he has been hired by Loghain to poison one of your possible allies, or, if you're playing a mage, you saw with your own eyes what Jowan is capable of doing with blood magic when he escaped from theTower. Allowing someone like this to use the entire lifeforce of somebody to power a spell, when he might just as well use it for something other than the ritual?
There's also the fact that sending a mage into the fade alone to battle a demon is a very risky thing. Of course, we as players know that we will be able to do it, because we can always reload, but the Warden has no quicksaves. He is possibly risking the live of one of his companions (or his own) and both Morrigan and Wynne warn you, that it is not an easy task for the mage in question.

Travelling to the Tower to get help from the Circle seems not feasible for my characters as well. Teagen says, it'll take a day to get to the Tower (at least I think he says it's a day), so that means you'll be gone for at least two days, assuming that you can just walk in, grab a few mages and return straight away. That gives Connor's demon a lot of time to wreak havoc in the castle and Redcliffe. And if your character hasn't dealt with the Circle before, you don't know what is happening there, but have probably heard rumours in Lothering of how the mages are turning into demons and the Rite of Anullment has been requested by Gregoir. Doesn't seem like a good time to go there and seek help. And if you travel there, any sane character would turn back as soon as they see what's going on there, because the Warden just can't know beforehand what is going on inside the Tower, if there are mages to be saved, how long that would take, etc.

But even if you saved the Tower beforehand, my characters wouldn't go there for help. For once, because of the time requirement I mentioned above, but also because after what happened with Uldred, my character would have serious doubts that Gregoir would just allow the mages to travel to Redcliffe and deal with this situation. I think he wold most likely send a group of Templars to deal with Connor and probably clap Isolde in irons for hiring an apostate and protecting an abomination.

So, all in all, despite the fact that my characters hate to do it (and would love to punish Isolde, although loosing her son is probably punishment enough), this is the way I usually handle this situation.

[spottyblanket]

If you let Jowan run away, do you find him later? I have never done this

[e-ver]

Yes, you'll be able to pick up the quest "Jowan's Intention" at the Chanter's board.

[Kryyptehk]

Can you help Jowan escape after saving the castle, after Bann Teagan puts him back in the dungeon? I've never tried it before, and I just thought of it.

[EccentricSage]

I tried to let Jowan leave, but he said he would not, that he wanted to make amends. He felt truly guilty about what he unwittingly unleashed upon these people.

I managed to save everyone, but could not convince Eamon to free Jowan. I can only imagine what the Templars will do to him. ;_; It kind of pissed me off that I couldn't invoke the right of conscription and attempt to make Jowan a Warden. Would have been highly controvercial, but it would truly have been the best ending for all, and I loved that guy. He's just another hated minority making a bid for freedom, who got used and manipulated by Loghain. He deserved a second chance.

Jowan took his fate with dignity and grace, though. Much respect for him.

Modifié par EccentricSage, 19 février 2010 - 09:56 .

[Kryyptehk]

EccentricSage wrote...

I tried to let Jowan leave, but he said he would not, that he wanted to make amends. He felt truly guilty about what he unwittingly unleashed upon these people.

I managed to save everyone, but could not convince Eamon to free Jowan. I can only imagine what the Templars will do to him. ;_; It kind of pissed me off that I couldn't invoke the right of conscription and attempt to make Jowan a Warden. Would have been highly controvercial, but it would truly have been the best ending for all, and I loved that guy. He's just another hated minority making a bid for freedom, who got used and manipulated by Loghain. He deserved a second chance.

Jowan took his fate with dignity and grace, though. Much respect for him.

Man, that sucks. I thought Jowan was awesome.

And that kind of ruins a fanfic I had planned -grumblegrumble-

[RationalDelirium]

Allerleihrau wrote...

Yes, you'll be able to pick up the quest "Jowan's Intention" at the Chanter's board.

Yes, the problem is  that quest is bugged

[EccentricSage]

Kryyptehk wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

I tried to let Jowan leave, but he said he would not, that he wanted to make amends. He felt truly guilty about what he unwittingly unleashed upon these people.

I managed to save everyone, but could not convince Eamon to free Jowan. I can only imagine what the Templars will do to him. ;_; It kind of pissed me off that I couldn't invoke the right of conscription and attempt to make Jowan a Warden. Would have been highly controvercial, but it would truly have been the best ending for all, and I loved that guy. He's just another hated minority making a bid for freedom, who got used and manipulated by Loghain. He deserved a second chance.

Jowan took his fate with dignity and grace, though. Much respect for him.

Man, that sucks. I thought Jowan was awesome.

And that kind of ruins a fanfic I had planned -grumblegrumble-

Don't let that deter you.  I'd say simply have a blurb at the begining of your fic explaining that you were not satisfied with the outcome of Jowan's plight, and that the fic will diverge from cannon for that reason.    I think a fic about what might have been would be interesting.

I have to admit in my case Dristen and Zev probably would have draged him back to Zev's tent to celabrate his freedom with a special 'welcome to the merry band of madmen' ritual.  I hear it involves a scented oil massage... hee hee....   He seems so lonely and so grateful for any compassion... I bet he'd be up for whatever his saviors think is best... XD

RationalDelirium wrote...

Allerleihrau wrote...

Yes, you'll be able to pick up the quest "Jowan's Intention" at the Chanter's board.

Yes, the problem is  that quest is bugged [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie]

There is?!  How did I miss this?!  0_0  Can you give me more details?

[CybAnt1]

There's also the fact that sending a mage into the fade alone to battle a demon is a very risky thing. 

I was wondering about one curious thing. I always choose this option because it seems like it requires the least people die. And my Warden is always weak with compassion (at least according to Morrigan.) 

I was rather surprised that you have the option to send Morrigan, Wynne, or yourself (if you're a mage), into the Fade to hunt Connor's demon, but it also gives you options to send Jowan or Irving.

Can you really tell one of them to do it instead? I'm curious if we get to see Jowan or Irving's stats & spells if we say yes. 



One time for s n' giggles I asked Irving if we could go instead. He said that was a lot to ask. Then I noticed a [persuade] option to really insist he did it.

I didn't click it. I'm just curious (I think I'd have to dig deep into a past save to retry, so I'll just ask) -- can you persuade either him or Jowan to do it? My guess is no. Esp. with Jowan, who seems a bit cowardly. 

[Creature 1]

Jowan will go, but he's a bad pick because his spell selections suck.

[Reaverwind]

Allerleihrau wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Let Isolde die - it's not that unhappy.

It's better than killing Connor anyway, atleast in my opinion. I find the "kill Connor" ending terribly depressing.

I usually kill Connor. I hate doing it, most of my characters hate doing it, but I still choose this path, because for me, it makes the most sense for the Warden to do it this way.

Allowing Jowan to do the ritual seems very risky, your character either knows nothing at all about him, other than he has been hired by Loghain to poison one of your possible allies, or, if you're playing a mage, you saw with your own eyes what Jowan is capable of doing with blood magic when he escaped from theTower. Allowing someone like this to use the entire lifeforce of somebody to power a spell, when he might just as well use it for something other than the ritual?
There's also the fact that sending a mage into the fade alone to battle a demon is a very risky thing. Of course, we as players know that we will be able to do it, because we can always reload, but the Warden has no quicksaves. He is possibly risking the live of one of his companions (or his own) and both Morrigan and Wynne warn you, that it is not an easy task for the mage in question.

Travelling to the Tower to get help from the Circle seems not feasible for my characters as well. Teagen says, it'll take a day to get to the Tower (at least I think he says it's a day), so that means you'll be gone for at least two days, assuming that you can just walk in, grab a few mages and return straight away. That gives Connor's demon a lot of time to wreak havoc in the castle and Redcliffe. And if your character hasn't dealt with the Circle before, you don't know what is happening there, but have probably heard rumours in Lothering of how the mages are turning into demons and the Rite of Anullment has been requested by Gregoir. Doesn't seem like a good time to go there and seek help. And if you travel there, any sane character would turn back as soon as they see what's going on there, because the Warden just can't know beforehand what is going on inside the Tower, if there are mages to be saved, how long that would take, etc.

I find it baffling that you can travel to the Tower without the game imposing some kind of consequence for doing so. I'd rather thought Bioware had gotten away from the black & white choices typical of D&D games, and here we have a glaringly obvious one. Of course, these days I RP that it's not worth risking something happening during the 2 days or more you're gone.

[e-ver]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Can you really tell one of them to do it
instead? I'm curious if we get to see Jowan or Irving's stats &
spells if we say yes. 

Yes, you can, not only Jowan, as Creatire 1 mentioned, but also Irving.
His initial refusal also led me to believe that "in truth" (if such a thing exists in a game) it would be much more dangerous to battle a demon in his own realm than we experience it ingame. I mean, if the First Enchanter is not sure he's up to it...

[edit]

Reaverwind wrote...
I find it baffling that you can travel to the Tower without the game
imposing some kind of consequence for doing so. I'd rather thought
Bioware had gotten away from the black & white choices typical of
D&D games, and here we have a glaringly obvious one. Of course,
these days I RP that it's not worth risking something happening during
the 2 days or more you're gone.

Yes, I too really wished that there were some consequences for the delay in adressing the demon. Much as my characters hate them, I want to have situations where I can only pick the lesser of two (or more) evils. Makes for much more interesting games!

Modifié par Allerleihrau, 19 février 2010 - 02:02 .

[RobinMichelleB]

Well, if you've just rescued Irving from the Circle and then ask him to go into the Fade, that is a lot to ask. If he's had some time to rest, maybe he's just being whiny. LoL I figured you could have Jowan go as redemption, but since my characters are usually mages, I always do it myself. I tried it with Morrigan once on a human noble, and she fared well. I know you can send Wynne, but I've not tried that yet.



I was vaguely under the impression that Jowan would be made tranquil because of his actions, especially because of the disaster at the Circle. I mean, once he's tranquil, he won't care anymore. It's a perfect form of pacification (and I think rather inhumane, but that's not really the point here). However, I don't know if there is actually any grounds for me to think that... maybe I made it up? LoL

[Reaverwind]

Allerleihrau wrote...

CybAnt1 wrote...

Can you really tell one of them to do it
instead? I'm curious if we get to see Jowan or Irving's stats &
spells if we say yes. 

Yes, you can, not only Jowan, as Creatire 1 mentioned, but also Irving.
His initial refusal also led me to believe that "in truth" (if such a thing exists in a game) it would be much more dangerous to battle a demon in his own realm than we experience it ingame. I mean, if the First Enchanter is not sure he's up to it...

[edit]

Reaverwind wrote...
I find it baffling that you can travel to the Tower without the game
imposing some kind of consequence for doing so. I'd rather thought
Bioware had gotten away from the black & white choices typical of
D&D games, and here we have a glaringly obvious one. Of course,
these days I RP that it's not worth risking something happening during
the 2 days or more you're gone.

Yes, I too really wished that there were some consequences for the delay in adressing the demon. Much as my characters hate them, I want to have situations where I can only pick the lesser of two (or more) evils. Makes for much more interesting games!

Indeed it does. It's disappointing that dealing with the Circle also has such a Black & White slant, down to the musical cue played when you're speaking with Irving. It really shouldn't have been that easy, especially considering Wynne's "little helper". Cullen may sound like a lunatic, but he's dead-on when it comes to her.

[Xavier Eledhwen]

I have played it 3 times and sent both Irving and  Jowan, as well as myself when I was the Arcane Warrior. For Irving it is a walk in the park, For Jowan it took time, skill, and tactics. For my Arcane Warrior it was like throwing the demon into a blender, although I did save and do the Sex Scene with her, then reloaded and killed her.


Ending Spoiler ...

BTW when my Arcane Warrior made the Ultimate Sacrifice, Alister order the Chantry to build and new Tower and gave the Circle full autonomy 

end spoiler

Modifié par Xavier Eledhwen, 19 février 2010 - 02:23 .

[CybAnt1]

What's Irving's spell selection look like?



As "First Enchanter" I would suspect ... awesome. (Must be why it's a cakewalk for him.)



We know Jowan's a blood mage.



Just wondering what are Irving's primary and secondary foci ... Spirit/Spirit Healer is my guess.

[Sanguinerin]

All I remember from Irving is the lightning chain and the glyphs.

[errant_knight]

Using Jowan makes for the toughest fight in the fade. His spell selection is weak, and even though my party menbers had tons o' poultices, they didn't share. I didn't let him use the blood magic spell he had, either. I sent him in there to change his ways and get redemption, after all.



The first fight was easy, and the last one was touch and go, but I got it the first time. The middle one was quite hard. It took about five tries. doable, though, and it let's Jowan make up for what he started a little.