77 réponses à ce sujet

[Dick Delaware]

Ellythe wrote...

What?! You mean I have to go find secks and romance in real life?? Bioware how could you?? (On a side note, this should make my husband happy.)

Yeah right. In Awakening, you'll receive a letter from Alistair while you're in Vigil's Keep and then start swooning all over again. You'll come crawling back... they always come crawling back.

[TheMadCat]

I like it, romance and sex have become such a staple in Bioware games lately that it's actually become repetitive. Characters of the same general mold, a pinnacle in the relationship revolved around sex, always following the same type of path. I think it's good they're taking a step back from it for once, maybe come up with some new stuff or at the very least it'll give it a bit of freshness.

[elearon1]

TheMadCat wrote...

I like it, romance and sex have become such a staple in Bioware games lately that it's actually become repetitive. Characters of the same general mold, a pinnacle in the relationship revolved around sex, always following the same type of path. I think it's good they're taking a step back from it for once, maybe come up with some new stuff or at the very least it'll give it a bit of freshness.

Yeah, I hate it when games come out with decent graphics and a good story, too.  How many well written stories do we need?  And aren't better graphics just a way of distracting the player?  Better to play with 16 bit graphics and fan fic level stories so we don't become bored.

Taking stuff away does not make a game better - especially when they are taking things away that a vast majority of the consumers were looking forward to.

I think too many of the romance nay sayers are caught up on the sex scene side of things ... while the videos are a nice little addition, it is the romance most people become taken with - the level this sort of interaction draws you into the story, makes you care about your character and his companions.  The more involved you are with the lives of your npcs, the more you will care about the world they live in, and the more attracted you feel to the game itself.

[TheMadCat]

Did you read another post and quote mine by accident? I never said taking romances out equals a better game, I never said romances are bad for the game. I feel they are just becoming repetitive and stale in their games. Like I said the characters you can romance are almost always the same from game to game, the pinnacle of the romance is always the same, the way you go through the romance is always the same. When it comes to Bioware games I already know how the romance will play it and it's just kind of lost the luster a bit. DA:O had the best romances to date due to the writing and dialogue, but the basic strengths and flaws still remained. Doing a Bioware game or two without romances will at the very least freshen it up a bit.

[shedevil3001]

couldnt of said it better elearon1 that was exactly what i thought its one of the reasons i spent nearly 4 months playing dao over and over again all day and all night i couldnt seem to drag myself away from the game and if bioware takes that from the game completely and doesnt go back to it in the next expansion or dao 2 then i'm done buying anymore of their games coz i wont play rubbish games that dont hold my interest

[Corephyfish]

I like the romances, but I don't think it will be bad that there aren't any in awakenings, its only an expansion afterall. Plus you're trying to rebuild the Wardens and et rid of the Architect and if you're away from your love interest...well you know what they say, absence makes the heart grow fonder. Itsnot like they've taken it out completely, if you had a romance in DA:O there will at least be references to it but you're too busy doing other stuff. It's only a few months after DA:O was complete so if you wanted to start a romance with a NEW character then you're fickle anyway and obviously didn't care for the original.



IMO I can wait for Dragon Age 2 or whatever is next, I think the 'no romance' will make it all the better when you are reunited with your love again.

[SirOccam]

I thought the sex scenes in DAO were almost comical in how unsexy they were. Not just the graphics (why do the textures on XBox 360 suck so bad?), but also the weird, blank grins they have the whole time. The one exception was during Morrigan's ritual...the graphics were just as bad, but it was "choreographed" well. The blowing out the candle at the end was a nice touch.

Not to mention the fact that Morrigan apparently actually goes and puts a bra on, as opposed to just neglecting to take it off.

It's not that I demand more nudity, but the scenes could be a lot better if they used camera angles and such to hide the nudity and not clunky, apparently-never-been-washed underwear. It would also be cool if it felt more natural and not so clinical.

"Greetings, romanced companion. Let us initiate sex at this time."

"Very well."

[elearon1]

TheMadCat wrote...
. I feel they are just becoming repetitive and stale in their games. Like I said the characters you can romance are almost always the same from game to game, the pinnacle of the romance is always the same, the way you go through the romance is always the same. When it comes to Bioware games I already know how the romance will play it and it's just kind of lost the luster a bit. DA:O had the best romances to date due to the writing and dialogue, but the basic strengths and flaws still remained. Doing a Bioware game or two without romances will at the very least freshen it up a bit.

It is the last line here which gets me ... taking the romance out isn't going to make the game fresh and better, it is just going to make it seem as though something is missing.  Now, I can see your point about the romances having become predictable and perhaps that is something they should be addressing - though I don't think the end of the Morrigan romance was entirely predictable - but not by taking them away entirely.  

Unfortunately, there are only so many ways you can approach a romance story and be assured it will sell, so they do have to stick fairly close to time proven techniques.  If you have some reasonable ideas for how they could change the romances and make them fresh I'd be interested in hearing them.  

Incest - knowing or unknowing - has promise but would be too controversial; the same with abusive relationships.  Relationships with people who turn out to be using you have good story potential but would make people go insane with anger - relationships with unlikely figures, such as very ugly individuals who are nonetheless incredibly interesting characters, might be an interesting way to go, but you'll likely find the people who appreciate them in the minority.

Personally I think what they need to do is pursue the relationships beyond the scope of the first game ... there you meet the person, get to know them, fall in love, deal with their hangups and decide to live happily ever after ... but that isn't the way it works long term.  I'd like to see you come back to those relationships, deal with more hangups, family dramas, deep dark secrets, the question about children, and a number of other questions appropriate to both fantasy and real life long term relationships ... leave the Honeymoon period behind and have them deal with tougher issues ... and see if they come out of it on top.

And I think a lot of other players would enjoy the same thing.  This would overcome the problem of predictable romance plots, give people the chance to continue getting to know their beloved npc, and offer new and interesting story material with some real room for consequence. 

[Ceridraen]

SirOccam wrote...

I thought the sex scenes in DAO were almost comical in how unsexy they were. Not just the graphics (why do the textures on XBox 360 suck so bad?), but also the weird, blank grins they have the whole time. The one exception was during Morrigan's ritual...the graphics were just as bad, but it was "choreographed" well. The blowing out the candle at the end was a nice touch.
Not to mention the fact that Morrigan apparently actually goes and puts a bra on, as opposed to just neglecting to take it off.
It's not that I demand more nudity, but the scenes could be a lot better if they used camera angles and such to hide the nudity and not clunky, apparently-never-been-washed underwear. It would also be cool if it felt more natural and not so clinical.
"Greetings, romanced companion. Let us initiate sex at this time."
"Very well."

I have to say - I liked the Alastair-elf scenes (except the glitch where he's warming hands over the fire while she's seducing him) - but your 'Let us initiate sex' pretty much sums it up.  I did question why the wonderful, strong Morrigan suddenly lapses into baby talk when she propositioned my boy elf, but... I guess love changes a person. But the bra!  LOL!  Every one of us turned around at that and said, "Wait... she put ON a bra to have sex? Really?" (same for the Urn quest - nice going, getting more dressed, Morrigan - and btw, Wynne? Holding up REAL well there!)

[TheMadCat]

@elearon1: I don't know you eat chicken every night for a month, don't even look at chicken for a few months, when you go back to eating chicken it doesn't taste as dull and ordinary as it did the last time you ate it, even though chicken is chicken.

But to the point. You throw out some good ideas and they'd be interesting no doubt. At the same time how far do you take these things in games that aren't centered around a love story or the characters personal life, rather their journey. I don't think they need to go bold and grand to liven it up, partly why I enjoyed the Morrigan romance so much was because of the ending and I think they need to do things like that. Add a monkeywrench into the chains every once in awhile instead of letting them turn undisturbed. Romance has never been and more then likely will never be the center focus of a Bioware game, but they are big parts and it would be nice to see them step outside the box once in awhile. Whether they will or not, eh. I still think it's good they are stepping back in Awakening especially if they felt they couldn't do it well.

[Cutlass Jack]

They only said there was no sex/Romance for you.

Oghren on the other hand....

[kinninvosha]

Ha... you people need a life, or mabby a better job! i just came on to get some bonus content and all i see is a bunch of people with wayyyy to much time on there hands. stop whineing about what u dont like in the game, 1 u dident make it, 2 you cant change it now and three get a life! there is far more impornting things to do than **** about games. oh ya dont bother flaming me i woint be comeing back to see your stupid debates

[elearon1]

>> especially if they felt they couldn't do it well. <<



There, of course, is the big issue ... if it can't be done well, it shouldn't be done at all.



Mind you, I'd feel a little more forgiving if they came forward and said "Your old romances will play big part in future products" they way they did with ME2. But that does still leave your Orlesian Warden out in the cold, as it were.



>> Oghren on the other hand.... <<



Now wouldn't that drive people insane? Have Oghren come back and romance all the old love interests while you watched.

[elearon1]

>>oh ya dont bother flaming me i woint be comeing back to see your stupid debates<<



I make it a point not to debate people who can't use proper grammar anyway. Is it really that much more effort to spell a word out entirely?

[Cutlass Jack]

elearon1 wrote...

Now wouldn't that drive people insane? Have Oghren come back and romance all the old love interests while you watched.

Well Sigrun looks just like his kinda girl.

[Dick Delaware]

elearon1 wrote...

Incest - knowing or unknowing - has
promise but would be too controversial; the same with abusive
relationships.  Relationships with people who turn out to be using you
have good story potential but would make people go insane with anger -
relationships with unlikely figures, such as very ugly individuals who
are nonetheless incredibly interesting characters, might be an
interesting way to go, but you'll likely find the people who appreciate
them in the minority.

Personally I think what they need to do is
pursue the relationships beyond the scope of the first game ... there
you meet the person, get to know them, fall in love, deal with their
hangups and decide to live happily ever after ... but that isn't the
way it works long term.  I'd like to see you come back to those
relationships, deal with more hangups, family dramas, deep dark
secrets, the question about children, and a number of other questions
appropriate to both fantasy and real life long term relationships ...
leave the Honeymoon period behind and have them deal with tougher
issues ... and see if they come out of it on top.

And I think a
lot of other players would enjoy the same thing.  This would overcome
the problem of predictable romance plots, give people the chance to
continue getting to know their beloved npc, and offer new and
interesting story material with some real room for consequence.

Actually, you may be more right than you know about the incest thing. In The Stolen Throne it's hinted that Morrigan and Alistair might be related. Haven't read the book but have heard the same thing numerous times from posters here.

MadCat, I agree with you 100%. BioWare and ME2 have been BioWare's least formulaic, and so far, best games. I was so glad that the Morrigan romance ended the way it did - it was completely appropriate and not at all cliched. Using commonly established tropes isn't a bad thing of course, but using the same one every single game becomes stale, as each subsequent attempt at doing the same thing tends to become less and less inspired.

My favourite RPG ever is probably Torment. It basically was a conscious attempt to avoid every single RPG cliche out there, and it was all the better for it. I for one am glad BioWare's recent games are a bit different. Honestly, I'd groan if I had to sit through another batch of companions like the ones in KOTOR or Jade Empire.

Modifié par Dick Delaware, 20 février 2010 - 02:27 .

[SniXSniPe]

I was kind of hoping for a elf or dwarf romance.





Elf because they are awesome

and Dwarf because they never do those

[elearon1]

>I'd groan if I had to sit through another batch of companions like the ones in KOTOR or Jade Empire.<<



You're telling me you didn't love Henpecked Ho? Come on, he was awesome. (and originally appears in the novel "A Bridge of Birds" by Garry Hughart - an excellent fantasy novel if ever there was one)



Though I have noticed that with Bioware npcs you do get a lot of repetition:

One is a priss

One has war stories to tell

One is fairly innocent

One has an inhuman outlook

One has embarrassing sayings or stories to share

[Spawny]

Why do people wanting the romance option copping so much flak? People like different things about a game and when you loved the formula in one it is a downer when they take that element away Kinda like I like KFC but I wouldn't like it as much if they took out some of them herbs
Or the crap line of get a life. Come on, enough with the silly insults or assuming because people like something that they have nothing else to live for, that is pathetic and a cheap shot. There is nothing wrong with people voicing what they would love more of and it can help Bioware if they read to see what the fan base wants. It's no biggy to the ones who don't care for the romance options because you can bypass it but just because you may not like it is no reason to flame people who do.
I enjoy games with romance or no and yes I have a life and enjoy a real love life with my husband thankyoubeforeigetflamed. I think it is a shame to lose that part of the game that made it really interesting for others and wouldn't of taken much to write in.
But saying pretty much that someone is a loser because they want that option is well, sad....because everybody is playing this game for a reason either because you love what the romance option brings into the story line or you enjoy pretending your an elf who is strong enough to swing a two handed sword. What the hell is the difference? (bar a few undie clad scenes unless your playing your two handed sword swinging elf in his or her jocks...I pity that elf...)

Modifié par HagSpawn, 20 février 2010 - 03:00 .

[cmessaz]

I would be lying if I said that I am not dissapointed in some of the things I've read about Awakening. It stinks about the DLC, but that's not even a big deal for me. I am concerned as to how it will play out when you import a character, namely a human noble, which is my favorite. No one wants to work hard to become Queen/King for nothing.
You have to work hard to build relationships with the characters and it stinks that they all just go. The romance thing bothers me a bit, I felt like this added quite a bit to the game. I had a lot of fun with it, and it will be sorely missed.
I am slightly dissapointed about Oghren. Of all the characters to bring back, why him? He was great for comedy, but I never found much use for him other than that. If you went to Orzammar last, then go there first on the next playthrough, and take him around for funny remarks.
I must admit that I am a little worried and slightly dissapointed with what I have read, but I will buy it anyway and hope for the best. I own another great RPG where the expansion pack had nothing to do with the original game, but I enjoyed it anyway. Hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised come March.
And stop the cheap shots towards those who like the romances! Everyone wants games more realistic, right?! This makes it such and is a lot of fun. And yes I have a life!

Modifié par cmessaz, 20 février 2010 - 03:05 .

[Dick Delaware]

elearon1 wrote...

>I'd groan if I had to sit through another batch of companions like the ones in KOTOR or Jade Empire.

You're telling me you didn't love Henpecked Ho? Come on, he was awesome. (and originally appears in the novel "A Bridge of Birds" by Garry Hughart - an excellent fantasy novel if ever there was one)

Though I have noticed that with Bioware npcs you do get a lot of repetition:
One is a priss
One has war stories to tell
One is fairly innocent
One has an inhuman outlook
One has embarrassing sayings or stories to share

Hou was funny, but most of the other characters sucked. Nowhere near as well-developed as Dragon Age's.

While Dragon Age still has some of these archetypes, (Morrigan/Silk Fox/Bastila) Morrigan for instance, is done much better than these other iterations.  A nice surprise with the Morrigan romance is that in the end, she never loses sight of her original mission. I really liked that and hope it's a sign of more surprising, but completely plausible and in-character things to come. What I'm saying is, a few characters who are a bit different, along with a few surprises that we won't expect might be nice and a real breath of fresh air.

How come, instead of a male love interest who's sweet and kinda shy with a little bit of a goofy side (Carth/Kaiden/Alistair) you instead have one who's assertive and serious. Maybe even a little dangerous. 

Hell, compare the companions in KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2.  KOTOR 2 isn't perfect, but a different dev team developed it and you can tell, because the companions are much, much different  And, truth be told more interesting than the original's for the most part. When have BioWare made a character like Kreia, for instance?

Now, I'm not suggesting that BioWare suddenly start making a Kreia clone for Dragon Age 2, but what I am saying is that it would be refreshing to add situations and character archetypes that haven't been used before.

Modifié par Dick Delaware, 20 février 2010 - 03:15 .

[Daneres]

Uidori wrote...

No romance makes me sad, I like that part of Origins.  The sex is cheesed out so I can do without the weird cut scenes.  Seriously, if you're going to do sex, make it naked plis and not weird underweared sex.

Agreed.

[Daneres]

Dick Delaware wrote...

Ellythe wrote...

What?! You mean I have to go find secks and romance in real life?? Bioware how could you?? (On a side note, this should make my husband happy.)

Yeah right. In Awakening, you'll receive a letter from Alistair while you're in Vigil's Keep and then start swooning all over again. You'll come crawling back... they always come crawling back.

LOL Probably right. I know I would if Alistair were my man in real life.

[Daneres]

elearon1 wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

I like it, romance and sex have become such a staple in Bioware games lately that it's actually become repetitive. Characters of the same general mold, a pinnacle in the relationship revolved around sex, always following the same type of path. I think it's good they're taking a step back from it for once, maybe come up with some new stuff or at the very least it'll give it a bit of freshness.

Yeah, I hate it when games come out with decent graphics and a good story, too.  How many well written stories do we need?  And aren't better graphics just a way of distracting the player?  Better to play with 16 bit graphics and fan fic level stories so we don't become bored.

Taking stuff away does not make a game better - especially when they are taking things away that a vast majority of the consumers were looking forward to.

I think too many of the romance nay sayers are caught up on the sex scene side of things ... while the videos are a nice little addition, it is the romance most people become taken with - the level this sort of interaction draws you into the story, makes you care about your character and his companions.  The more involved you are with the lives of your npcs, the more you will care about the world they live in, and the more attracted you feel to the game itself.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Playing my Dalish Elf girl, I didn't really care about the survival of human lords and their kin until she got to know Alistair and Leliana and so on and so forth.

[Daneres]

elearon1 wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...
. I feel they are just becoming repetitive and stale in their games. Like I said the characters you can romance are almost always the same from game to game, the pinnacle of the romance is always the same, the way you go through the romance is always the same. When it comes to Bioware games I already know how the romance will play it and it's just kind of lost the luster a bit. DA:O had the best romances to date due to the writing and dialogue, but the basic strengths and flaws still remained. Doing a Bioware game or two without romances will at the very least freshen it up a bit.

It is the last line here which gets me ... taking the romance out isn't going to make the game fresh and better, it is just going to make it seem as though something is missing.  Now, I can see your point about the romances having become predictable and perhaps that is something they should be addressing - though I don't think the end of the Morrigan romance was entirely predictable - but not by taking them away entirely.  

Unfortunately, there are only so many ways you can approach a romance story and be assured it will sell, so they do have to stick fairly close to time proven techniques.  If you have some reasonable ideas for how they could change the romances and make them fresh I'd be interested in hearing them.  

Incest - knowing or unknowing - has promise but would be too controversial; the same with abusive relationships.  Relationships with people who turn out to be using you have good story potential but would make people go insane with anger - relationships with unlikely figures, such as very ugly individuals who are nonetheless incredibly interesting characters, might be an interesting way to go, but you'll likely find the people who appreciate them in the minority.

Personally I think what they need to do is pursue the relationships beyond the scope of the first game ... there you meet the person, get to know them, fall in love, deal with their hangups and decide to live happily ever after ... but that isn't the way it works long term.  I'd like to see you come back to those relationships, deal with more hangups, family dramas, deep dark secrets, the question about children, and a number of other questions appropriate to both fantasy and real life long term relationships ... leave the Honeymoon period behind and have them deal with tougher issues ... and see if they come out of it on top.

And I think a lot of other players would enjoy the same thing.  This would overcome the problem of predictable romance plots, give people the chance to continue getting to know their beloved npc, and offer new and interesting story material with some real room for consequence. 

It's like you're reading my mind. lol