79 réponses à ce sujet

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I feel like the Shotguns in ME2 are kind of crappy, I been playing hardcore and insanity (maybe thats why?).  I gave it a shot (pun intended) many times throughout levels for my vanguard but when push comes to shove I feel like the submachinegun dishes out more damage than the shotgun mainly because the fire rate is so much faster.  Maybe Im too used to shotguns in other games being 1 or 2 shot kills, in ME2 It takes several shots to take down a regular opponent.  Is the shotguns effectiveness only good for lower level difficulties?  Im I using the gun wrong? haha

Im in need of constructive disagreement here.

[MurdurinMatt]

I understand where your coming from with this, im not really a fan of the shottys either, but im not really a fan of them in any game, i prefer range. But anyway, a gun with a faster rate of fire usually will do more dps, mainly cause of the fire rate, and i dont know if this has any effect but are you aiming the shot gun at the opponents head when youre by them? That usually does more damage. but the time it takes before you can fire another shot is somewhat annoying on some of the shotguns. Bad thing about the smg is the accuracy in my opinion, but with a vanguard, when you charge them, i guess accuracry isnt that bad since your up close to them and you dont have to really worry about spray fire, but at the same time you have to deal with the recoil. And as for playing other games where shotguns only take one or two shots, i think me and you are too used to playing MW2 (if you even play that) but in this game you gotta remember theres sheilds and barriers, and health bars, and i dont think any gun can take all three of those down at the same time, and as for shotguns at lower levels, i played casual and i didnt even like using shottys then, im just not a fan of them period, but thats just my opinion. I dont think youre using the gun wrong, but what shotgun are you mainly using?

[Dethateer]

Use the Eviscerator.

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Thanks for the input,

yah i do..I mainly use the Eviscerator and I feel like its the best.  The claymore I dont even bother, the reload isnt fast paced enough for me.  The SMG damage per minute is probably higher than Shotguns damage per minute on close range.  (Yes i said minute which equates to 60 seconds, my point is rate of fire, damage, and reload time).  I guess its wishful thinking to want a shotgun that can do shotgun type damage.  I think the shotgun should be able to strip armor in one shot, health in one shot, and shields in one shot (cept for bosses and big mechs/scions).  If not up the damage maybe increase knockback on the gun.  It would be nice to blast someone even if they have shields or armor and they stagger back. or in some cases fall to the ground to just get back up.  The only thing I see the shot gun do is interrupt a power being used.

Modifié par EA_BiowareAccount, 19 février 2010 - 09:12 .

[Dethateer]

Well, it's the only one that can kill and not run out of ammo at the same time. Shotties are, indeed, very weak.

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yah, makes my renegade vangaurd lack omph

[Rix Raw]

I am usually a fan of shotguns, but they really don't work too well in ME2. I recall shotguns being more fierce in ME1. Because of the slow firing rate they would be ideal for shooting from behind covers, but you're rarely in shotgun range then. They would also come in handy to finish off opponents that managed to get close to you in a firefight, but switching weapons is too slow, so that's kinda out too.



They'd either need to rip through armour and shields as you suggested or knock enemies back/down, maybe have variants that fire faster, but deal less damage.

[Nomcookie]

I find that shotguns and vanguards are better suited to difficulties of veteran and below. Once you hit hardcore (much less insanity), the in-your-face style of the shotgun/vanguard turns into a high-risk, not-so-high reward thing.

[AntiChri5]

Just bring the flamethrower along. If your shotgun starts to bore you or feels lackluster switch. The flamethrower is definately good for damage and time.

[medlish]

Yeah, shotguns in ME1 were a lot stronger. You had a lot one hit kills.

[Rix Raw]

We should just call 'em sh*tguns, innit! HAHAHHA!

[Coffee_without_sugar]

Hmm, depends a lot on playstyle imo.
Playing a Charge-focused Vanguard on Insanity at the moment and if you do headshots the Claymore one-shots just about any standard enemy, well, every now and then i still need a melee attack to finish one off.
Still not sure if i prefer it to the Eviscerator, but the reload imo is a none-issue since in situations where multiple shots would be needed i have to get bedind cover to survive the charge-cooldown anyway, which leaves plenty of time to reload as well.

Modifié par Coffee_without_sugar, 19 février 2010 - 11:56 .

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The flamethrower is pretty fun to use as a vanguard. The eviscerator makes shotguns at least useable imo but not that great. I haven't used the claymore so much but I might give it a shot again with closeup headshots.

[Slygar]

After going back and playing it a bit, it's weird how much better the shotgun is in ME1. You can actually hit things that are more than 10 feet in front of you.



Is the ME2 version supposed to be more realistic...? Cuz it's not.

[Slygar]

double

Modifié par Slygar, 19 février 2010 - 06:16 .

[Dethateer]

Actually, shotties aren't the only weapons with hit-detection issues. I have had AR or SR rounds pass right through enemies (granted, not dead-center shots)... it's a hitbox glitch, I think.

[Amioran]

Actually one of the motives why Vanguards are a little gimped than they should at higher difficulties relies just on the fact that shotguns effectiveness decreases greatly the higher the difficulty setting (naturally because the damage per shot decrease given the higher health/protections of enemies). This fact paired with Charge usefulness and Biotics working only on red-health enemies makes Vanguard's life harder than it should be.

The major problem is RoF, it's really too low, and the damage per RoF ratio is much lower than a simple SMG, being that at close to medium distance there's no more benefit between a SG and whatever other gun (that is a bit nonsensical). I made some changes in the .ini file increasing this parameter on shotguns (and a little damage on close to medium range) and the Vanguard role changes completely. It is astounding how much difference a proper shotgun makes for the class. Charge becomes immensely useful again (above all the area one) and the close range aspect of combat is highly enhanced.

Definitely I hope that Bioware will test a bit this little modification (increasing RoF and damage at close range of Shotguns) for ME3 because IMO it's what Vanguards desperately need on higher difficulties to fully adhere to their roles.

Modifié par Amioran, 19 février 2010 - 06:52 .

[Riot Inducer]

Slygar wrote...

After going back and playing it a bit, it's weird how much better the shotgun is in ME1. You can actually hit things that are more than 10 feet in front of you.

Is the ME2 version supposed to be more realistic...? Cuz it's not.

Nah, the shotguns were supposed to be more "shooter-like" notice how in any shooter ever a shotgun's effective range is approx. 3 meters?

Still I feel like the Eviscerator helped this issue a fair bit, it has decent range for a shotgun (especially a video game shotgun). It means all those squad mates who use shottties as their primary weapon can actually be somewhat useful in a fight now.  

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interesting, I should have tried vangaurd on lower settings, the submachinegun on hardcore is a lot more useful in shaving off sheilds. With Tungsten ammo, the submachinegun is most effective at shaving off armor. Charge does little against both. I spend most of my time shaving off armor/shield barriers and charge almost ends up as a "finish him" move rather than a useful move. The upside is recharging shields with charge thats the most useful thing about it on higher difficulties.



If shotgun damage was greatly increased for close range, charge would be very useful again on higher difficulties. Right now charging into a fully shielded/armored enemy just doesnt kill them with a shotgun melee combo. Very unsatisfying imo. Right now weapon of choice is submachinegun with tungsten ammo for my vanguard.

[Mordigan]

You must be doing something wrong.

I'm playing a Vanguard on insanity, and the Claymore kills standard mobs in one shot, and elite mobs in 2 shots. Humanoid bosses usually require 3 or 4 plus a few melees..

The Claymore just rapes if you use it correctly (doubly so if you use the reload trick), but you have to be really close for it to be effective..

In fact, point blank range doubles the amount of damage inflicted, so it's best to fire as quickly as possible after the moment of impact of coming out of charge.

Modifié par Mordigan, 19 février 2010 - 07:31 .

[Amioran]

What you say it's true, yes, when you Charge and only ONE enemy is left.

If you do what you say chargin against a bunch of enemies the very low RoF of the Claymore doesn't let you kill them all either at point blank range, so the effectiveness of the Vanguard is higly reduced in almost all circumnstances. The damage of point blank range, then, it is the same for ALL guns, not only for Shotguns, and the RoF to damage ratio of the shotgun means that you can use that strategy with more effectiveness with an SMG, for example. Actually, you will do MUCH better on using an SMG at point blank range than the claymore if more than an enemy is left.

On insanity Charge is useful only as a spam skill (i.e. you spam it all the time to always recharge shields) or against a single enemy as a gimmick finisher, just because the effectiveness of the shotgun is so reduced and the SMG, while good, it's not certainly a weapon that has the function of the shotgun. Try for yourself changin the RoF and damage at close to medium range in the .ini if you have a PC, you will see for yourself that the difference in role becomes more than apparent.

And please, I beg you, stop telling people "you must do something wrong...": we are not talking here about a game that requires an year to understand the dynamics of, for god's sake.

Modifié par Amioran, 19 février 2010 - 07:37 .

[Mordigan]

Amioran wrote...

What you say it's true, yes, when you Charge and only ONE enemy is left.

I charge all the time, regardless of how many enemies there are on the battlefield.  Whether I charge or not is determined by the position of the enemy, and not how many there are..

If you do what you say chargin against a bunch of enemies the very low RoF of the Claymore doesn't let you kill them all either at point blank range, so the effectiveness of the Vanguard is higly reduced in almost all circumnstances.

Actually, if you use the reload trick, then you can survive charging into a mob.....but only on normal or veteran difficulty.  On insanity, you'd be killed because the extra damage they inflict just cuts through your enhanced shields.
 

The damage of point blank range, then, it is the same for ALL guns, not only for Shotguns, and the RoF to damage ratio of the shotgun means that you can use that strategy with more effectiveness with an SMG, for example. Actually, you will do MUCH better on using an SMG at point blank range than the claymore if more than an enemy is left.

I've tried the SMG at close range just for kicks, and it definitely doesn't kill the enemy faster than the Claymore.  How could it?  The Claymore's base damage is 400, and in melee range, it doubles to 800, which is enough to kill most enemies with only one shot.....even on insanity.

If you score a headshot, you're inflicting even more damage..   If you think an SMG is better than the Claymore at close range, well.......

On insanity Charge is useful only as a spam skill (i.e. you spam it all the time to always recharge shields) or against a single enemy as a gimmick finisher, just because the effectiveness of the shotgun is so reduced and the SMG, while good, it's not certainly a weapon that has the function of the shotgun. Try for yourself changin the RoF and damage at close to medium range in the .ini if you have a PC, you will see for yourself that the difference in role becomes more than apparent

I've played with all of the shotguns, and at no time did I ever feel they are underpowered.  If you feel the ROF is a hindrance, then use the Scimitar and not the Claymore.

Or, you could use the Claymore with the reload trick, which increases the ROF without hacking the game.

And please, I beg you, stop telling people "you must do something wrong...": we are not talking here about a game that requires an year to understand the dynamics of, for god's sake.

The game isn't that complex I agree, but if someone's experiences are that much different than mine, then something must obviously be amiss.

I mean, the OP said,"in ME2 It takes several shots to take down a regular opponent" something which I know to be completely false if you use the Claymore.

Modifié par Mordigan, 19 février 2010 - 09:07 .

[Mordigan]

And I must stress, that the game is balanced around NORMAL DIFFICULTY.

Which means that powers, weapons etc will only work the way they're intended on that difficulty setting.

If you're playing on insanity or hardcore and expect weapons and powers to have the same effect that they do on normal, then you're in for a wake up call, because the enemies have highly inflated damage and durability ratios compared to the player.

So it seems ridiculous to complain about your weapons not being as effective on these settings if you ask me..

Modifié par Mordigan, 19 février 2010 - 08:00 .

[vhatever]

Best weapon for vanguard on insanity is probably the vindicator. Works well at range, works well when charging up close. What also works well is a combo of dominate and drones to clutter up the battlefield if you really wanna try to get the job done with a shotty.

[Mordigan]

vhatever wrote...

Best weapon for vanguard on insanity is probably the vindicator. Works well at range, works well when charging up close. What also works well is a combo of dominate and drones to clutter up the battlefield if you really wanna try to get the job done with a shotty.

I've tried using the Vindicator at close range, and it didn't perform well compared to the shotguns..

Coming out of charge, it's important to deliver as much damage in as short a time as possible, especially if you're playing on insanity..

With that said, how can the Vindicator match a burst damage weapon like the Claymore that can deliver 800 damage in one shot, not even counting the extra damage from upgrades, passive ability, ammo, headshot etc..?