79 réponses à ce sujet

[vhatever]

The problem on insanity is that at many times you simply wont be able to one-shot finish your target, even the cannon fodder troops can live if you don't get a perfect headshot, and with the weird animations that occur from charging at different angels and flashy effects going off make it very hard to ensure a clean headshot. I'd rather have a more dependable weapon that is effective at any range, at any time.



The claymore deals like 5x 50 damage, and the vindicator something like 40x3. But the vindicator fires many, many times faster. Over time, even at point blank range, their damage varies little. It's only the 1-2 second window the claymore is good, which is great if you can one shot something, but all too often you can't on insanity.

[Mordigan]

Shotguns fire 8 pellets, as verified by Christina in this thread, so it's 8x50.1 for the Claymore, and 36.8x3 for the Vindicator.

Also, the Claymore will one shot any standard mob at point blank range on insanity, even if you don't get a headshot. The Evi on the other hand, will only one shot a standard mob on insanity if you get a headshot. Without a headshot, you have to use a quick melee afterwards to finish them off.

Also if the ROF on the Claymore is that much of a hindrance, you can try the reload trick.

Check this video if you want to see what the reload trick looks like with the Claymore. It increases DPS substantially since you're able to fire a .5 second faster..

Modifié par Mordigan, 19 février 2010 - 09:23 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

What exactly is that thread saying?



It looks like both pistols do the same amount of damage, but im sure thats wrong.



Could someone explain it a little further?

[StingerSplash01]

The M-3 does 23.5(?) dmg per shot and the hand cannon does 86, however dmg for max ammo on the m-3 is 2600 while the hand cannon is 2000 so its your choice.

[ProjectEclipse]

I don't like the shotguns either. I just let my teammates work their magic with the Eviscerator instead.

[Cloaking_Thane]

StingerSplash01 wrote...

The M-3 does 23.5(?) dmg per shot and the hand cannon does 86, however dmg for max ammo on the m-3 is 2600 while the hand cannon is 2000 so its your choice.

Where is this info from, not saying youre wrong simply curious?

It also says they both do the same amount damage (multiplier 1.5x) vs armor so extrapolating

M3: 35.25 vs armor?

HC: 129 vs Armor?

HC w/ all hits being health related = 2,064 pts 86 x 24 ammo

M3 w/ all hits being Health related = 1,692 pts assuming 23.5 x72 ammo

[Mordigan]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

What exactly is that thread saying?

It looks like both pistols do the same amount of damage, but im sure thats wrong.

Could someone explain it a little further?

It means that both pistols have the same damage multiplier against armor, not that they both have the same base damage.

[StingerSplash01]

sry the the m3 does more dmg and it does 37.2 dmg per shot, and HC is 85.4, redoing the calcs



HC = 2049.6 pts 85.4*24



M3 = 2678.4 pts 37.2*72



M3 = 55.8 vs armor and 4017.6 total



HC = 128.1 vs armor and 3074.4 total



M3 wins in both cases, data came straight from the game files, hope that clears it up

[vhatever]

Wonder why my testing showed only like 5 pellets. That's a bug being exploited, btw. Might as well edit your init to give you 10000 damage per pellet.

[StingerSplash01]

vhatever we are talking about the heavy pistols not the shotguns

[Mordigan]

vhatever wrote...

Wonder why my testing showed only like 5 pellets. That's a bug being exploited, btw. Might as well edit your init to give you 10000 damage per pellet.

In game, you only see 4 pellets because the other 4 aren't rendered for some reason....but they are still there and do damage. 

I have no idea why they did that..  

Modifié par Mordigan, 19 février 2010 - 10:03 .

[Mordigan]

StingerSplash01 wrote...

vhatever we are talking about the heavy pistols not the shotguns

We were talking about shotguns, and not the heavy pistols.

[AsheraII]

As much as I like shotguns in ME1, I feel they are underpowered in ME2. When an enemy gets that close, you're generally better of with your SMG, flamethrower or even melee damage for the hack of it, since those fire more continuously and are much easier to aim. Mobs simply move too fast too get proper aim for your shotgun. Maybe if BW were to add a small time-dilation, similar to the first 10 seconds while taking aim with a snipergun, but just less strong (say, about 0.3 times the strength of the sniper-time dilation) to shotguns, then they'd become a lot more useful for aiming at that storming krogan or taking out that husk that ALWAYS runs past you at first to try and attack from behind.

The damage of the shotgun really isn't that bad. It's the simple fact that out of 8 pellets, 3 or 4 will generally miss because the targets wizzes past you.

[vhatever]

Mordigan wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Wonder why my testing showed only like 5 pellets. That's a bug being exploited, btw. Might as well edit your init to give you 10000 damage per pellet.

In game, you only see 4 pellets because the other 4 aren't rendered for some reason....but they are still there and do damage. 

I have no idea why they did that..  

That's not how I tested it. I used an enemies healthbar at point blank range to test it.

anyway, basing your views on the claymore off exploiting a flakey bug = bad idea.

[Mordigan]

AsheraII wrote...

As much as I like shotguns in ME1, I feel they are underpowered in ME2. When an enemy gets that close, you're generally better of with your SMG, flamethrower or even melee damage for the hack of it, since those fire more continuously and are much easier to aim. Mobs simply move too fast too get proper aim for your shotgun. Maybe if BW were to add a small time-dilation, similar to the first 10 seconds while taking aim with a snipergun, but just less strong (say, about 0.3 times the strength of the sniper-time dilation) to shotguns, then they'd become a lot more useful for aiming at that storming krogan or taking out that husk that ALWAYS runs past you at first to try and attack from behind.
The damage of the shotgun really isn't that bad. It's the simple fact that out of 8 pellets, 3 or 4 will generally miss because the targets wizzes past you.

Are you playing on the Xbox 360 or the PC? 

I have no problem aiming or hitting my enemies with the shotgun, and I play on the PC..

[Mordigan]

vhatever wrote...

That's not how I tested it. I used an enemies healthbar at point blank range to test it.

anyway, basing your views on the claymore off exploiting a flakey bug = bad idea.

And how would you know how much damage is inflicted from a numerical perspective?  You'd have to know that, for your testing to be valid I would imagine.

Also, the reload trick if thats what you're referring to isn't a "flakey bug."  It's a design implementation..

You can also cancel out half of the time it takes to reload by using a biotic or tech attack..

Anyway, even without the reload trick, the Claymore still rapes.  You just have to use it properly and find ways to minimize the impact of the reload ie using melees in between.

Modifié par Mordigan, 20 février 2010 - 02:38 .

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

is full of fail.

[Prkl8r]

One of the reasons that I think shotguns were better in ME 1 is because I would throw hammerhead rounds into my shotgun and just knock whatever i hit down, it was kinda OP to be honest.

[vhatever]

Mordigan wrote...
And how would you know how much damage is inflicted from a numerical perspective?  You'd have to know that, for your testing to be valid I would imagine.

Pretty easily. You use a single shot weapon on an enemies health bar with no ammo/damage mods increasing your damage. Then you find a target that just barely has the tiniest sliver of life after so many shots, then you reload the game and test the other weapon and see how much damage it does per shot against the same enemy's health bar.

Mordigan wrote...
Also, the reload trick if thats what you're referring to isn't a "flakey bug."  It's a design implementation..

You can also cancel out half of the time it takes to reload by using a biotic or tech attack..

Anyway, even without the reload trick, the Claymore still rapes.  You just have to use it properly and find ways to minimize the impact of the reload ie using melees in between.

Ya, it's "desgin implementation" to reduce your reload time by half for just hitting your melee attack. Makes as much sense as anything else you have to say, at least.

Modifié par vhatever, 20 février 2010 - 03:20 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

StingerSplash01 wrote...

sry the the m3 does more dmg and it does 37.2 dmg per shot, and HC is 85.4, redoing the calcs

HC = 2049.6 pts 85.4*24

M3 = 2678.4 pts 37.2*72

M3 = 55.8 vs armor and 4017.6 total

HC = 128.1 vs armor and 3074.4 total

M3 wins in both cases, data came straight from the game files, hope that clears it up

Cool I will start using the M3 more often. Although the HC is useful at times. I had suspicions that it was better good to see it confirmed.

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 20 février 2010 - 04:51 .

[Mordigan]

vhatever wrote...

Pretty easily. You use a single shot weapon on an enemies health bar with no ammo/damage mods increasing your damage. Then you find a target that just barely has the tiniest sliver of life after so many shots, then you reload the game and test the other weapon and see how much damage it does per shot against the same enemy's health bar.

LOL, thats quite the scientific approach you have there

Irregardless, Christina Norman herself said that shotguns fire 8 pellets.  Not 5, but eight.

End of story.

And from the damage that I've seen shotguns inflict, it makes sense..

Ya, it's "desgin implementation" to reduce your reload time by half for just hitting your melee attack. Makes as much sense as anything else you have to say, at least.

You can believe whatever you want to.  How do you think we even found out about the reload trick?

Christina told us herself, thats how....

But since you're a pseudo game developer, I suppose you know all the "whats what" in Mass Effect 2.  

[vhatever]

It would be pretty easy to find that bug without being told it, since shotgun + melee attack+ another shotgun attack is a very, very common and basic vanguard strat. Retardedly easy. It would only be a matter of time after you picked up the krogan shotgun before you found it.

Modifié par vhatever, 20 février 2010 - 06:26 .

[Mordigan]

vhatever wrote...

It would be pretty easy to find that bug without being told it, since shotgun + melee attack+ another shotgun attack is a very, very common and basic vanguard strat. Retardedly easy. It would only be a matter of time after you picked up the krogan shotgun before you found it.

This is Christina's post on the subject:

Christina Norman wrote...

One advanced tip I can give for vanguard players is, you can cancel out of
a reload animation to melee an enemy and you will still reload as long
as you've completed 60% of the reload animation. It's tricky to master,
definitely for more twitchy players, but it really helps with the
claymore.

So it's not a bug. 

Also, it's not as easy as you think to find it.  Before I found out about that reload trick, I used that exact strategy you're referring to with my Vanguard.....shoot+melee+shoot etc, and I never came upon it..

Unless you press the fire and reload buttons exactly at the same time, it's not something you can accidentally stumble upon very easily.....and even if you did, you'd be too engrossed in the game to even notice it unless you were already looking for it.

[vhatever]

I suspect she is wrong or being taken out of context. You do not "cancel" the reload. You completely bypass and go directly into shooting the gun with the claymore. If it merely canceled the reload, you could do this trick without firing a shot immediately after/during the melee attack, but you fire a shot immediately.

It's really not that twitchy either. More timing than twitch.

Modifié par vhatever, 20 février 2010 - 06:52 .