272 réponses à ce sujet

[Gavinthelocust]

Barquiel wrote...

Well, at least Morinths victims die happy...

Dirty dirty LIE! I tried to have sex with her but she killed me before I could take off my pants.

[Wild Still]

Thane and Morinth may both be murderers, but when I play Shepard...



He makes them look like damned Care Bears.



Plus Shepard doesn't get all sad about being a killer. Gotta do what you're good at.

[flem1]

77boy84 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

RattleSnake08 wrote...

As Thane puts it, he did not kill them, his body did as it is just a tool.

Please don't use that BS excuse. Thats like a Concentration camp officer saying I was just a tool for Hitler when he is captured and being allowed to walk out free.

It's not really a bs when the drell consider their souls/minds completely seperate from their bodies.
Or however it works.

Actually, it's the belief itself that's BS.  A species-wide "get out of responsibility free" card?  Seriously?  He may not have willed his action, but he chose not to will himself to stop.

Morinth is a classic criminal sociopath that decades of first-world coddling and stupid vampire movies have tried to erase from our minds -- with some (horrifying) success, judging from posts here.  Predators of that type love preying on naivete.

[Felene]

newcomplex wrote...

Felene wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

Felene wrote...

MutantSpleen wrote...

CrookedAsylum wrote...

MutantSpleen wrote...

It is religious.  Did you not notice how she says "May you find peace in the Goddess" everytime she whacked someone. The asari cop equated them with warrior-monks

Plus if you hear about Samara from Morinth you learn Samara was a crazy-ass religious zealot that expected her children to be perfect even before she became a Justicar.

Nein.
The Asari as a species believe in the godess. The Justicar code itself has nothing to do with religion. Samara believes in the godess, but no more than the average Asari. She is not a zealot, simply the Asari equivelant of a Knight Errant.

Just checking back in to stir the pot.

No this is incorrect.  Siari is the major religion of the Asari. Its a belief that all life in the universe is joined as one conciousness. The Goddess is Athame, who is one of the old religions of the Asari that are dying out. She sounds like she is possibly a moon goddess as she goes through cycles which mimic the cycles of of Asari life. Maiden, Matron, Matriarch.

So she believes in an old religion not widely worshipped by the majority of asari. Interesting enough Liara also seems to follow Athame.

Samara also claims that the justicar's code is over 5000 sutras in length, and literally spells out what a justicar's conduct should be in every possible situation. Also, every justicar is required to know the entire code by heart.

Sutras are another name for scriptures.

So we have a warrior-monk who happens to worship one of the old religions and follows a code or scripture that tells her how to behave in every situation and has it memorized by heart.

No she is definitely not a zealot. <_<

I am not denying that Morinth is a murderous sex-vampire, but don't deny her mother is a religious zealot.

You still don't get it.

Not warrior-monk, she is a judge-Spectre.

Her religion has no part in her justicar code.

Justicar code is not religous, its not a Bible.

A judge/police who believes in God is not a religious zealot.

They don't kill or act in the name of their Gods, they enforce law and judge right or wrong.

She isn't a religous zealot, she's just a zealot.   A zealot is defined by someone who is extremely devoted to a set of tasks, usually characterized by inflexibility and devotion.

She is incapable of mercy.    She is a zealot.    

Ehh, no.

Samara is not zealous.

She simply follows her code.

She is incapable of mercy because there is none in her code.

Justicar code is black and white. Right or wrong. She will kill a person who kill innocents even she knew the person has a family depend on him/her. And yes, she will feel remorse by killing the person.

She is not passionate about the justicar code, she is not a zealot.

lolwut?   Yeah, so shes so devoted to the code that she is incapable of things like mercy.    Which is a zealot.

You can't read? There is no such thing as mercy in her Justicar code, its black and white.

Mercy is grey.

[Skavau]

MutantSpleen wrote..

Morinth is not insane.

She has a genetic disorder, if she does a normal asari melding (sex for them) it kills the partner because her melding is so intense it overwhelms the partner's nervous system.  She can't turn that off it happens no matter what she does. At the same time, as intense as it is for her victims, its just as intense for her so she has become addicted to it. 

So her choices are 1000 years of celibacy or death. Yeah that pretty much sucks.

Do we know whether she dies if she does not procreate? Nonetheless, Morinth does it for the thrill and to kill others. Whether she 'needs' to or not is beyond the question when she does it with such glee.

[Skavau]

MutantSpleen wrote..

Possibly, but she is young, 400 years.  Maybe she will change her ways. Maybe she won't. I had to kill her crazy ass mom though. Nothing worse than a religious zealot.  I just couldn't take it when her own mom called her nothing more than a disease to be purged.  Plus I was eventually going to have to kill Samara anyway being a Renegade myself, might as well not delay the inevitable.

Could, would, should.

She has and continues to kill for kicks. That makes her a monster. Deliberately disregarding the happiness of others for her own selfish objectives.

[Collider]

Thane's assassinations is the reason why I am not going to recruit him in the final playthrough. As my main Shepard behaves as I would, I would not recruit such a morally questionable person if I am able. I found it particularly irresponsible how Thane tried to disassociate the assassin from the assassination, as well as his metaphysical spiel. That said, he is not a monster and seems to genuinely want to repent.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Jeirt wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Morinths people saw her as a monster,which had the choice to be isolated or killed.So she act like a monster.Dont have any real choice.Sounds cheap?Yes,not as cheap as thane explanations.

I never considered Morinth a monster. It isn't her fault that she became this way. However, there is no way of persuading her to stop. She will always continue hunting for new victims. Thane on the other hand seems like he could be reasoned with. Even if he'll probably always feel drawn to this profession. It's very tragic. In some way, they're very similar.

Possibly, but she is young, 400 years.  Maybe she will change her ways. Maybe she won't. I had to kill her crazy ass mom though. Nothing worse than a religious zealot.  I just couldn't take it when her own mom called her nothing more than a disease to be purged.  Plus I was eventually going to have to kill Samara anyway being a Renegade myself, might as well not delay the inevitable.

A justicar is a religous zealot? Someone that goes around getting their kicks by killing their sexual partners is in need of purging. The fail is quite strong in this one.

[cooldevo]

Collider wrote...
Thane's assassinations is the reason why I am not going to recruit him in the final playthrough. As my main Shepard behaves as I would, I would not recruit such a morally questionable person if I am able. I found it particularly irresponsible how Thane tried to disassociate the assassin from the assassination, as well as his metaphysical spiel. That said, he is not a monster and seems to genuinely want to repent.

If that is the standard for your Shepard, you better steer clear of Garrus (vigilante), Jack (murderer), Jacob/Miranda (part of a terrorist group of whom cerberus stage an assault on the flotilla), Samara (who kills anyone who commits a wrong, no matter the gravity), Zaeed (spelling?  a world-renowned merc who started a huge group).... In fact I don't think there is one person in your group you can take who is totally innocent and clean.

Sometimes part of going the good road is seeing the redemption possibility in those who want it and giving those willing the chance to do such.  If our past marked us forever, we'd all be screwed.

[Massadonious1]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Ehh, that Turian was hardly innocent.

And Thane prays for himself, not the victims.

The Turian was innocent. He was presenting his argument through the legal diplomatic process. Just because you disagree with him doesn't give you a right to kill him.

I haven't read through the rest of this thread yet, but I had a feeling this would get responded to rather quickly.

First off, as someone as said, he was shaking down human businesses. That makes him a criminal. Being a political figure doesn't make him any less of a criminal.

Secondly, you have to think in terms of how Mass Effect justice works, not how modern day justice system works. Fact of the matter is, people in this universe have killed criminals (and gotten away with it) for less. Even Renegade Shep as killed for less. And, not to mention, it is made abudantly clear throughout the game, C-Sec is definetly not the pinnacle of law enforcement. Asari are flagged as potential Geth infiltrators, you can apparently get away with putting out contracts on people if you bribe C-Sec brass, and a malcontent like Harkin can continue doing what he's doing for some reason, even though he constantly uses C-Sec contacts and intelligence (you would think they would of closed the leak by now) to do his nefarious deeds.

From the stories Thane tells you, pretty much all of his contracts have been against people like that, with the exception of the revenge killings he performed against the people that took out his wife. And you know what, in the context of this universe, I'm not sad they're gone, and I'm definetly not going to shed a tear for someone that already does and plans to use his political clout to impose his will through criminal activity on the human populace.

Morinth is a different story. I'm sure not everyone she as killed have been saints, but you only have to take a look at the victim we were introduced to. The only thing Nef did "wrong" was having a natrual affinity for sculpting, and living on a station where Afterlife was the primary form of entertainment.

[InvaderErl]

No Morinth is the attractive one here so we HAVE to make excuses for her!

[GodWood]

Collider wrote...

Thane's assassinations is the reason why I am not going to recruit him in the final playthrough. As my main Shepard behaves as I would, I would not recruit such a morally questionable person if I am able. I found it particularly irresponsible how Thane tried to disassociate the assassin from the assassination, as well as his metaphysical spiel. That said, he is not a monster and seems to genuinely want to repent.

If you won't recruit Thane because you think he's too evil than you shouldn't recruit anyone at all as he is one of the most paragon on the ship.

[Collider]

cooldevo wrote...

Collider wrote...
Thane's assassinations is the reason why I am not going to recruit him in the final playthrough. As my main Shepard behaves as I would, I would not recruit such a morally questionable person if I am able. I found it particularly irresponsible how Thane tried to disassociate the assassin from the assassination, as well as his metaphysical spiel. That said, he is not a monster and seems to genuinely want to repent.

If that is the standard for your Shepard, you better steer clear of Garrus (vigilante), Jack (murderer), Jacob/Miranda (part of a terrorist group of whom cerberus stage an assault on the flotilla), Samara (who kills anyone who commits a wrong, no matter the gravity), Zaeed (spelling?  a world-renowned merc who started a huge group).... In fact I don't think there is one person in your group you can take who is totally innocent and clean.

Lol, like I said, I literally need to recruit most of the squad mates to progress through the game. Since I can forgo one or two, I am going to skip Thane.

Sometimes part of going the good road is seeing the redemption possibility in those who want it and giving those willing the chance to do such.  If our past marked us forever, we'd all be screwed.

I'm not really doing Thane any favors by recruiting him. That makes him more likely to die, which is a matter he's clearly not fond of. He's in the act of killing another person when Shepard finally meets him. Thane wasn't exactly attached to the repentance idea when he was doing that.

I like that he wants to repent, but that doesn't erase the fact that he assassinated people. We all make mistakes and feel regret, we've done people wrong and we wished we never had, but that's a farcry from killing people.

[Collider]

GodWood wrote...
If you won't recruit Thane because you think he's too evil than you shouldn't recruit anyone at all as he is one of the most paragon on the ship.

Can't do that if I want to progress through the game =P I have to make some metagaming decisions, even if I'm roleplaying.

[BHRamsay]

InvaderErl wrote...

No Morinth is the attractive one here so we HAVE to make excuses for her!

...And some frankly disturbing fanfiction. I can post links to some of the more ....interesting ones.

[Massadonious1]

Thane was resigned to dying during that final contract.



I say that's repentance enough for me.

[Jigero]

You know you can sit here an argue Assassins are bad or whatever, Shepard is no better, What the heck do you think a Spectre is? It's just a legal assassin. When the Citadel wants some one to go away who do they send? A Spectre. And you can't tell me the Citadel is anymore just then a Crime Boss.

[Sleepicub09]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

So is Shepard. The difference is that Shepard and Thane don't kill innocents nor to they kill for just pleasure. Where as Morinth kills people for the heck off it and because she likes the thrill. One is a necessary evil, the other is a monster.

Thane kills people for money. Almost as bad as killing people for the heck of it.

actually he's a freelancer

[Chained_Creator]

GodWood wrote...

Just throwing this out here, to be a mass murderer you have to kill multiple people at once, an example being like a terrorist.
Morinth and Thane only kill people individualy therefore not "mass murderers".


Shepard's a murderer.

To be a murderer you have to be convited of killing someone illegally.

[Cutlass Jack]

I'm too lazy to scan the last 10 pages. Did we get into how Mordin ended more lives than everyone else combined with the Genophage yet? (before they began, but still...)

[Collider]

Jigero wrote...

You know you can sit here an argue Assassins are bad or whatever, Shepard is no better, What the heck do you think a Spectre is? It's just a legal assassin. When the Citadel wants some one to go away who do they send? A Spectre. And you can't tell me the Citadel is anymore just then a Crime Boss.

Terrible comparison.
It's not the same. Play as 100% Paragon and there is a clear difference between assassin and Shepard. A spectre is not hired to kill anyone in particular, they are hired to uphold the law (but allowed to break it if necessary). Terrible comparison.

[Lmaoboat]

Collider wrote...

Jigero wrote...

You know
you can sit here an argue Assassins are bad or whatever, Shepard is no
better, What the heck do you think a Spectre is? It's just a legal
assassin. When the Citadel wants some one to go away who do they send?
A Spectre. And you can't tell me the Citadel is anymore just then a
Crime Boss.

Terrible comparison.
It's not the same.
Play as 100% Paragon and there is a clear difference between assassin
and Shepard. A spectre is not hired to kill anyone in particular, they
are hired to uphold the law (but allowed to break it if necessary).
Terrible comparison.

I didn't see Shep giving any of those Mercs a fair trail. He just assumed they were bad guys and killed them. Which is exactly what Thane does.

Modifié par Lmaoboat, 20 février 2010 - 08:44 .

[Collider]

Lmaoboat wrote...
I didn't see Shep giving any of those Mercs a fair trail. He just assumed they were bad guys and killed them. Which is exactly what Thane does.

???
Them shooting at you is not an indication that Shepard should defend himself?

[Lmaoboat]

Collider wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...
I didn't see Shep giving any of those Mercs a fair trail. He just assumed they were bad guys and killed them. Which is exactly what Thane does.

???
Them shooting at you is not an indication that Shepard should defend himself?

At the end of the day, everyone's killing bad guys. Thane just does it in a more sneaky way.

[flem1]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I'm too lazy to scan the last 10 pages. Did we get into how Mordin ended more lives than everyone else combined with the Genophage yet? (before they began, but still...)

He also saved more lives than everyone else combined (besides Shepard).