272 réponses à ce sujet

[MutantSpleen]

Daralii wrote...

Morinth is insane.

Morinth is not insane.

She has a genetic disorder, if she does a normal asari melding (sex for them) it kills the partner because her melding is so intense it overwhelms the partner's nervous system.  She can't turn that off it happens no matter what she does. At the same time, as intense as it is for her victims, its just as intense for her so she has become addicted to it. 

So her choices are 1000 years of celibacy or death. Yeah that pretty much sucks.

[AntiChri5]

Assassins are not mass murderers. If an assassin kills a lot of people they are doing it wrong. How many people they kill will depend on how long they are active. I would say that one or two kills a year would be the average for someone like Thane.

Wheras Morinth likes to use her powers to mentally enslave an entire village so she can killf*ck whoever she wants whenever she wants. She is as bad as the Reapers.

Big difference.

Modifié par AntiChri5, 19 février 2010 - 12:41 .

[Lareit]

MatronAdena wrote...

from how it came across, Thane seemed to be really more like a justicar, or a spectre in a sense once his wife was killed. and yes he did regret every kill he made, they all took abit away with him, he did not enjoy it. He tried to minimize any danger to innocent by standards as much as he could.

Morinth on the other hand....well she lived for the thrill of it, targeted young, attractive, bright individuals seduced and killed them for the love of doing it, had a colony worship her, and offer sacrifices to her...

I see a big difference there.

While I do agree that, to MY mind Thane could have taken more responsibility for his deeds " though he does take more than you are picking up from his tones, and body language* he's also not human...you are... just.. TRY to forget everything you learned in life, forget every shred of social and cultural influences, how would your life be, if the normal consensus was utterly different?

the crusades, or the inquisition, or the witch hunts killed millions of people in their respective times...all with support and guidance of the church,,,
they said it was the will of their god..

WE today know that was a horrid deed, there were many many many wronged...we decry it. yet back in that society, that culture, it was accepted as the norm.

could one for once drop the self, and consider what his culture taught, what was viewed as the norm?
Or the Krogan, and their own culture norms?

sure you as a human, with the mindset of 2010 may not be able to " agree" with it, but is it not just as ignorant, and hypocritical to condone another from a culture utterly not related to your own in every shape and form, a Species who were being carried into space to save their species by the Hannar when we humans were still fighting revolutions, and civil wars with muskets?

I may be a soto zen Buddhist, and over all do everything I can to avoid promoting, or causing suffering in others, I'm also not a bleeding heart who can't tell the difference in behaviors and psychology. their is a massive difference between the two.

if Thane is such a monster, turn to your own species, and look to those who directly or indirectly took just as many, or more lives and are branded to this day as heroes

Thane isn't a monster, he is simply irresponsbile. He does good, now, but his unwillingness to accept the fact that his body doesn't act without his mind's direction would be a big step in the right direction.

[nitefyre410]

The difference is Thane took no pleasure in his kills, it was simply contract... Morinth gets off on killing her victims.

[MatronAdena]

Lareit wrote...

MatronAdena wrote...

from how it came across, Thane seemed to be really more like a justicar, or a spectre in a sense once his wife was killed. and yes he did regret every kill he made, they all took abit away with him, he did not enjoy it. He tried to minimize any danger to innocent by standards as much as he could.

Morinth on the other hand....well she lived for the thrill of it, targeted young, attractive, bright individuals seduced and killed them for the love of doing it, had a colony worship her, and offer sacrifices to her...

I see a big difference there.

While I do agree that, to MY mind Thane could have taken more responsibility for his deeds " though he does take more than you are picking up from his tones, and body language* he's also not human...you are... just.. TRY to forget everything you learned in life, forget every shred of social and cultural influences, how would your life be, if the normal consensus was utterly different?

the crusades, or the inquisition, or the witch hunts killed millions of people in their respective times...all with support and guidance of the church,,,
they said it was the will of their god..

WE today know that was a horrid deed, there were many many many wronged...we decry it. yet back in that society, that culture, it was accepted as the norm.

could one for once drop the self, and consider what his culture taught, what was viewed as the norm?
Or the Krogan, and their own culture norms?

sure you as a human, with the mindset of 2010 may not be able to " agree" with it, but is it not just as ignorant, and hypocritical to condone another from a culture utterly not related to your own in every shape and form, a Species who were being carried into space to save their species by the Hannar when we humans were still fighting revolutions, and civil wars with muskets?

I may be a soto zen Buddhist, and over all do everything I can to avoid promoting, or causing suffering in others, I'm also not a bleeding heart who can't tell the difference in behaviors and psychology. their is a massive difference between the two.

if Thane is such a monster, turn to your own species, and look to those who directly or indirectly took just as many, or more lives and are branded to this day as heroes

Thane isn't a monster, he is simply irresponsbile. He does good, now, but his unwillingness to accept the fact that his body doesn't act without his mind's direction would be a big step in the right direction.

yes.. and it's sad you have to romance him to see it.....but deep down, he really does not believe it comepletely himself.  He is wracked with guilt, feeling that everything he did was not enough, he's never going to be able to right all his wrongs, and even his death, he's so inclined to accept as if it was nothing....scares him to death as well....

Which again, There should have been a way to get more of this out of him without the romancing being required. <_<

[MutantSpleen]

nitefyre410 wrote...

The difference is Thane took no pleasure in his kills, it was simply contract... Morinth gets off on killing her victims.

Its the otherway around. Morinth gets off and it kills her partners.  Unlike Thane though, all he has to do is put down his gun. All she has to do is live celibate for 1000 years.  Wonder which one is harder.

[tonnactus]

Jeirt wrote...


That's exactly how I see it. He never even had a choice. You might say he was brainwashed into being who he is now.

Morinths people saw her as a monster,which had the choice to be isolated or killed.So she act like a monster.Dont have any real choice.Sounds cheap?Not as cheap as thane explanations.

Modifié par tonnactus, 19 février 2010 - 12:49 .

[AntiChri5]

Jeirt wrote...

Lareit wrote...

IT's not coping. It's denial. Accepting he did wrong and that he must attone by killing evil people is fine. The frustrating part is he's halfway there...but decides to use his species belief to keep from going all the way.

I mean hell, he even scoffs off his own sons responsiblity by using the same "disconnected from his body" bull****. His son isn't disconnected, his son is emotionally weak because his father sucked at his job and got his wife killed because he couldn't quit being an assassin after the hanar let him go.

Yes, "denial" is a more fitting word! He uses his religious views as an excuse to get away with what he did. But, as I said, it's not his fault that he became the way he is. Wouldn't everyone find some kind of excuse, some way to keep the truth from damaging their mental health, if they were trained for years and forced to kill at the age of 12?

Read the Royal Assassin trilogy by Robin Hobb. The protagonist is first sent to assassinate someone when he is 13.  

[tonnactus]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Assassins are not mass murderers. .

So let me explain that.A mass murderer is someone that kills more then one person for lower motivs like money.So thane is a mass murderer.

[Aisynia]

Thane's perception of himself as a weapon is deeply rooted in his peoples spiritual beliefs. The body and the soul are separate things, and his body was honed from a young age by the hanar to be a weapon of death. His spirit doesn't like what his body has become, but he also makes sure to remain connected to it, and use it properly.



An assassin is a surgical instrument, so assuming you have him in your squad for more than a couple missions against Blue Suns or something, he has probably killed more people since joining than he did during his previous career.



He's a kind, sensitive person, who takes NO pleasure in the killing of others. In fact, he was quitting. That was his last job, the last one ever, and he still had like a year to live.



He mentions that meeting his wife, who he saw as a siha, changed him, and made him come out of his battle sleep.



There is so much depth to Thane. Thane has killed, but comparing him to Morinth is atrocious.



MORINTH IS A ****ING RAPIST!



She is a sexual predator. To the person above saying "oh well, it's either that or never have sex".. ****, she has her fingers. She could get off and NOT kill people, and there is so much more to life than sex.



She has turned her life into one long sexual hunt, raping and murdering innocent people. She is a bad, bad person, and comparing a ****ign rapist to an assassin is just too many kinds of ridiculous to count.

[AntiChri5]

tonnactus wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Assassins are not mass murderers. .

So let me explain that.A mass murderer is someone that kills more then one person for lower motivs like money.So thane is a mass murderer.

Whether someone is a mass murderer depends on bodycount. A well done assassination only ends one life.

[Pauravi]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Morinth is not insane.

She has a genetic disorder, if she does a normal asari melding (sex for them) it kills the partner because her melding is so intense it overwhelms the partner's nervous system.  She can't turn that off it happens no matter what she does. At the same time, as intense as it is for her victims, its just as intense for her so she has become addicted to it. 

So her choices are 1000 years of celibacy or death. Yeah that pretty much sucks.

It doesn't matter how much it sucks or how unfair it is.  The simple fact is that she murders innocent people because she enjoys it.  Was she given a raw deal?  Sure.  Was it her fault she was born that way?  Of course not.  But as Samara said, Morinth is a tragic figure but not a sympathetic one.  No matter how she got to where she is, she is a selfish, sociopathic murderer who revels in stalking, luring, and killing unsuspecting and undeserving victims.  Genetic disorder or not, trusting her is no better an idea than trusting a serial killer.

[MutantSpleen]

Jeirt wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Morinths people saw her as a monster,which had the choice to be isolated or killed.So she act like a monster.Dont have any real choice.Sounds cheap?Yes,not as cheap as thane explanations.

I never considered Morinth a monster. It isn't her fault that she became this way. However, there is no way of persuading her to stop. She will always continue hunting for new victims. Thane on the other hand seems like he could be reasoned with. Even if he'll probably always feel drawn to this profession. It's very tragic. In some way, they're very similar.

Possibly, but she is young, 400 years.  Maybe she will change her ways. Maybe she won't. I had to kill her crazy ass mom though. Nothing worse than a religious zealot.  I just couldn't take it when her own mom called her nothing more than a disease to be purged.  Plus I was eventually going to have to kill Samara anyway being a Renegade myself, might as well not delay the inevitable.

[MutantSpleen]

Aisynia wrote...

There is so much depth to Thane. Thane has killed, but comparing him to Morinth is atrocious.

MORINTH IS A ****ING RAPIST!

She is a sexual predator. To the person above saying "oh well, it's either that or never have sex".. ****, she has her fingers. She could get off and NOT kill people, and there is so much more to life than sex.

First Asari can't have sex that way, its with their minds. She can't help killing the people she has sex with. If they could control it they would not be viewed as such monsters by their own people.

Thats easy to say for a human, even then not really.  But to be alone for 1000 years.   Which is what they are consigned to, a life of quiet contemplation, isolated from the rest of their people.

[InvaderErl]

Its one of these "Morinth is really misunderstood".

She is a sociopath who thrives on manipulating, using and eventually discarding people. She'd eat you right up with all of your sympathy in five minutes flat and then laugh about it afterward.

Anything she tells you about her hard life is designed to manipulate you into letting her in. EVERYTHING she does is about the hunt, about getting you to lower your defenses.

A sociopath has no hope of redemption because they don't see people as equals or even things worth saving. She even hangs momento's of her some of her kills in her apartment, that is classic serial killer behavior.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 19 février 2010 - 01:16 .

[tonnactus]

AntiChri5 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Assassins are not mass murderers. .

So let me explain that.A mass murderer is someone that kills more then one person for lower motivs like money.So thane is a mass murderer.

Whether someone is a mass murderer depends on bodycount. A well done assassination only ends one life.

First assasination.A murderer.Second assasination.Mass muderer.

[Lareit]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Jeirt wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Morinths people saw her as a monster,which had the choice to be isolated or killed.So she act like a monster.Dont have any real choice.Sounds cheap?Yes,not as cheap as thane explanations.

I never considered Morinth a monster. It isn't her fault that she became this way. However, there is no way of persuading her to stop. She will always continue hunting for new victims. Thane on the other hand seems like he could be reasoned with. Even if he'll probably always feel drawn to this profession. It's very tragic. In some way, they're very similar.

Possibly, but she is young, 400 years.  Maybe she will change her ways. Maybe she won't. I had to kill her crazy ass mom though. Nothing worse than a religious zealot.  I just couldn't take it when her own mom called her nothing more than a disease to be purged.  Plus I was eventually going to have to kill Samara anyway being a Renegade myself, might as well not delay the inevitable.

Lol religous zealots are worse then serial rapist/murderers

Who knew.

[Barquiel]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Possibly, but she is young, 400 years.  Maybe she will change her ways. Maybe she won't.

this

I'd really like to see Morinth in ME3. Maybe saving the galaxy will change her.

[InvaderErl]

SOCIOPATHS do not change.

[Lareit]

I don't get this, change Morinth? This isn't jack, she wasn't tortured and brutlized and abused and used to the point she lashes out against anything the instant she feels threatened. She stalks people wantingly. Even if she is capable of change, why let her have that option, she's killed too many good people for no other reason their her own lust and selfishness, not out of fear and self preservation. She deserves to die for justice sake. If you're renegade, she deserves to die because she's a damn liability to your mission.

[AntiChri5]

tonnactus wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Assassins are not mass murderers. .

So let me explain that.A mass murderer is someone that kills more then one person for lower motivs like money.So thane is a mass murderer.

Whether someone is a mass murderer depends on bodycount. A well done assassination only ends one life.

First assasination.A murderer.Second assasination.Mass muderer.

Killing two people is enough to become a mass murderer?

[InvaderErl]

But there's really a nice girl under all that psychopathic behavior!!!