272 réponses à ce sujet

[Felene]

MutantSpleen wrote...

CrookedAsylum wrote...

MutantSpleen wrote...

It is religious.  Did you not notice how she says "May you find peace in the Goddess" everytime she whacked someone. The asari cop equated them with warrior-monks

Plus if you hear about Samara from Morinth you learn Samara was a crazy-ass religious zealot that expected her children to be perfect even before she became a Justicar.

Nein.
The Asari as a species believe in the godess. The Justicar code itself has nothing to do with religion. Samara believes in the godess, but no more than the average Asari. She is not a zealot, simply the Asari equivelant of a Knight Errant.

Just checking back in to stir the pot.

No this is incorrect.  Siari is the major religion of the Asari. Its a belief that all life in the universe is joined as one conciousness. The Goddess is Athame, who is one of the old religions of the Asari that are dying out. She sounds like she is possibly a moon goddess as she goes through cycles which mimic the cycles of of Asari life. Maiden, Matron, Matriarch.

So she believes in an old religion not widely worshipped by the majority of asari. Interesting enough Liara also seems to follow Athame.

Samara also claims that the justicar's code is over 5000 sutras in length, and literally spells out what a justicar's conduct should be in every possible situation. Also, every justicar is required to know the entire code by heart.

Sutras are another name for scriptures.

So we have a warrior-monk who happens to worship one of the old religions and follows a code or scripture that tells her how to behave in every situation and has it memorized by heart.

No she is definitely not a zealot. <_<

I am not denying that Morinth is a murderous sex-vampire, but don't deny her mother is a religious zealot.

You still don't get it.

Not warrior-monk, she is a judge-Spectre.

Her religion has no part in her justicar code.

Justicar code is not religous, its not a Bible.

A judge/police who believes in God is not a religious zealot.

They don't kill or act in the name of their Gods, they enforce law and judge right or wrong.

Modifié par Felene, 19 février 2010 - 11:19 .

[newcomplex]

If your shepherd, you can potentially kill hundreds of people in playing the game, and another thousand depending on the decisions you make.



You can kill entire colonies.



You can choose nuking an airport over nuking a city and killing hundreds.

[newcomplex]

Felene wrote...

MutantSpleen wrote...

CrookedAsylum wrote...

MutantSpleen wrote...

It is religious.  Did you not notice how she says "May you find peace in the Goddess" everytime she whacked someone. The asari cop equated them with warrior-monks

Plus if you hear about Samara from Morinth you learn Samara was a crazy-ass religious zealot that expected her children to be perfect even before she became a Justicar.

Nein.
The Asari as a species believe in the godess. The Justicar code itself has nothing to do with religion. Samara believes in the godess, but no more than the average Asari. She is not a zealot, simply the Asari equivelant of a Knight Errant.

Just checking back in to stir the pot.

No this is incorrect.  Siari is the major religion of the Asari. Its a belief that all life in the universe is joined as one conciousness. The Goddess is Athame, who is one of the old religions of the Asari that are dying out. She sounds like she is possibly a moon goddess as she goes through cycles which mimic the cycles of of Asari life. Maiden, Matron, Matriarch.

So she believes in an old religion not widely worshipped by the majority of asari. Interesting enough Liara also seems to follow Athame.

Samara also claims that the justicar's code is over 5000 sutras in length, and literally spells out what a justicar's conduct should be in every possible situation. Also, every justicar is required to know the entire code by heart.

Sutras are another name for scriptures.

So we have a warrior-monk who happens to worship one of the old religions and follows a code or scripture that tells her how to behave in every situation and has it memorized by heart.

No she is definitely not a zealot. <_<

I am not denying that Morinth is a murderous sex-vampire, but don't deny her mother is a religious zealot.

You still don't get it.

Not warrior-monk, she is a judge-Spectre.

Her religion has no part in her justicar code.

Justicar code is not religous, its not a Bible.

A judge/police who believes in God is not a religious zealot.

They don't kill or act in the name of their Gods, they enforce law and judge right or wrong.

She isn't a religous zealot, she's just a zealot.   A zealot is defined by someone who is extremely devoted to a set of tasks, usually characterized by inflexibility and devotion.

She is incapable of mercy.    She is a zealot.    

[Internet Kraken]

You know, does it even matter if both of them are mass murders? Bottom line, Morinth wants to kill you and Thane doesn't. Morinth trying to kill me twice automatically makes her far worse.

[Felene]

newcomplex wrote...

Felene wrote...

MutantSpleen wrote...

CrookedAsylum wrote...

MutantSpleen wrote...

It is religious.  Did you not notice how she says "May you find peace in the Goddess" everytime she whacked someone. The asari cop equated them with warrior-monks

Plus if you hear about Samara from Morinth you learn Samara was a crazy-ass religious zealot that expected her children to be perfect even before she became a Justicar.

Nein.
The Asari as a species believe in the godess. The Justicar code itself has nothing to do with religion. Samara believes in the godess, but no more than the average Asari. She is not a zealot, simply the Asari equivelant of a Knight Errant.

Just checking back in to stir the pot.

No this is incorrect.  Siari is the major religion of the Asari. Its a belief that all life in the universe is joined as one conciousness. The Goddess is Athame, who is one of the old religions of the Asari that are dying out. She sounds like she is possibly a moon goddess as she goes through cycles which mimic the cycles of of Asari life. Maiden, Matron, Matriarch.

So she believes in an old religion not widely worshipped by the majority of asari. Interesting enough Liara also seems to follow Athame.

Samara also claims that the justicar's code is over 5000 sutras in length, and literally spells out what a justicar's conduct should be in every possible situation. Also, every justicar is required to know the entire code by heart.

Sutras are another name for scriptures.

So we have a warrior-monk who happens to worship one of the old religions and follows a code or scripture that tells her how to behave in every situation and has it memorized by heart.

No she is definitely not a zealot. <_<

I am not denying that Morinth is a murderous sex-vampire, but don't deny her mother is a religious zealot.

You still don't get it.

Not warrior-monk, she is a judge-Spectre.

Her religion has no part in her justicar code.

Justicar code is not religous, its not a Bible.

A judge/police who believes in God is not a religious zealot.

They don't kill or act in the name of their Gods, they enforce law and judge right or wrong.

She isn't a religous zealot, she's just a zealot.   A zealot is defined by someone who is extremely devoted to a set of tasks, usually characterized by inflexibility and devotion.

She is incapable of mercy.    She is a zealot.    

Ehh, no.

Samara is not zealous.

She simply follows her code.

She is incapable of mercy because there is none in her code.

Justicar code is black and white. Right or wrong. She will kill a person who kill innocents even she knew the person has a family depend on him/her. And yes, she will feel remorse by killing the person.

She is not passionate about the justicar code, she is not a zealot.

Modifié par Felene, 19 février 2010 - 11:44 .

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

I don't care what comparisons people make between Thane and Morinth, it is still comparing apples to oranges.



Thane is an assassin, Morinth is a serial killer. If you want to claim they're the same thing, fine.

[eternalnightmare13]

Shep is a mass murderer, too. 

[Barquiel]

Shepard doesn't kill for money (Thane) or pleasure (Morinth)

[Chained_Creator]

Barquiel wrote...

Shepard doesn't kill for money (Thane) or pleasure (Morinth)

No, Shepard just kills people be he/she thinks he/she knows what is right and wrong and because the end (saving the galaxy) justifies the means (killing people who get in the way).

Modifié par Chained_Creator, 19 février 2010 - 11:57 .

[tonnactus]

Taritu wrote...

Do most of you people listen to the dialogue?

Most of Thane's career he was an assassin for the Hanar people, trained by them starting at age 6. He was a government hit-man, in effect. When he broke from them he did so to kill his wife's murderers, then he spent some time killing people like Nassana Dantias who deserved it.
.

???

"The hanar released him from his compact to let him have a family, but with no other skills, Thane freelanced his services."
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Thane

Why prayers for the bad if he only kill scum?
Makes no sense.

Modifié par tonnactus, 20 février 2010 - 12:01 .

[lyssalu]

there is no difference between moral outcomes, no matter the intent.  so yeah, morinth, thane, and shepard are all equally immoral when it comes to murder.

[Barquiel]

Chained_Creator wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Shepard doesn't kill for money (Thane) or pleasure (Morinth)

No, Shepard just kills people be he/she thinks he/she knows what is right and wrong and because the end (saving the galaxy) justifies the means (killing people who get in the way).

not my (paragon) Shep; she only kills the bad guys
...but you are right of course (renegade Shep isn't better)

Modifié par Barquiel, 20 février 2010 - 12:06 .

[tonnactus]

lyssalu wrote...

there is no difference between moral outcomes, no matter the intent.  so yeah, morinth, thane, and shepard are all equally immoral when it comes to murder.

Yes.If shepardt killed for example shiala,he isnt better.

Modifié par tonnactus, 20 février 2010 - 12:04 .

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

Barquiel wrote...

Well, at least Morinths victims die happy...

No they won't. Did you see what happens if you try to mate with her?

[MutantSpleen]

It was hard to tell if that was pleasure or pain, they often can look the same.

I had to try it once.

[newcomplex]

Felene wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

Felene wrote...

MutantSpleen wrote...

CrookedAsylum wrote...

MutantSpleen wrote...

It is religious.  Did you not notice how she says "May you find peace in the Goddess" everytime she whacked someone. The asari cop equated them with warrior-monks

Plus if you hear about Samara from Morinth you learn Samara was a crazy-ass religious zealot that expected her children to be perfect even before she became a Justicar.

Nein.
The Asari as a species believe in the godess. The Justicar code itself has nothing to do with religion. Samara believes in the godess, but no more than the average Asari. She is not a zealot, simply the Asari equivelant of a Knight Errant.

Just checking back in to stir the pot.

No this is incorrect.  Siari is the major religion of the Asari. Its a belief that all life in the universe is joined as one conciousness. The Goddess is Athame, who is one of the old religions of the Asari that are dying out. She sounds like she is possibly a moon goddess as she goes through cycles which mimic the cycles of of Asari life. Maiden, Matron, Matriarch.

So she believes in an old religion not widely worshipped by the majority of asari. Interesting enough Liara also seems to follow Athame.

Samara also claims that the justicar's code is over 5000 sutras in length, and literally spells out what a justicar's conduct should be in every possible situation. Also, every justicar is required to know the entire code by heart.

Sutras are another name for scriptures.

So we have a warrior-monk who happens to worship one of the old religions and follows a code or scripture that tells her how to behave in every situation and has it memorized by heart.

No she is definitely not a zealot. <_<

I am not denying that Morinth is a murderous sex-vampire, but don't deny her mother is a religious zealot.

You still don't get it.

Not warrior-monk, she is a judge-Spectre.

Her religion has no part in her justicar code.

Justicar code is not religous, its not a Bible.

A judge/police who believes in God is not a religious zealot.

They don't kill or act in the name of their Gods, they enforce law and judge right or wrong.

She isn't a religous zealot, she's just a zealot.   A zealot is defined by someone who is extremely devoted to a set of tasks, usually characterized by inflexibility and devotion.

She is incapable of mercy.    She is a zealot.    

Ehh, no.

Samara is not zealous.

She simply follows her code.

She is incapable of mercy because there is none in her code.

Justicar code is black and white. Right or wrong. She will kill a person who kill innocents even she knew the person has a family depend on him/her. And yes, she will feel remorse by killing the person.

She is not passionate about the justicar code, she is not a zealot.

lolwut?   Yeah, so shes so devoted to the code that she is incapable of things like mercy.    Which is a zealot.    

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Well,
at least Morinths victims die happy...

No they won't.
Did you see what happens if you try to mate with her?

Extreme
pain and pleasure illicit the same facial response.

To back up this statement, go look up some shoddy porn on the internet.    Crop out everything except the faces.    In many pictures, you will have no idea if the girl in question is pretending to have an orgasm, or pretending to get tortured.   

Modifié par newcomplex, 20 février 2010 - 01:02 .

[Deztyn]

Barquiel wrote...

Chained_Creator wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Shepard doesn't kill for money (Thane) or pleasure (Morinth)

No, Shepard just kills people be he/she thinks he/she knows what is right and wrong and because the end (saving the galaxy) justifies the means (killing people who get in the way).

not my (paragon) Shep; she only kills the bad guys
...but you are right of course (renegade Shep isn't better)

Pfft. You recruited Garrus. That's some serious moral ambiguity right there. "I'm going to join up with a bunch of freelance mercs, most of whom are just looking for a quick buck or adventure, in order to get close to Archangel, and then I'm going to gun them all down when their backs are turned."

You can't play this game at all and try to claim that Shepard is completely righteous.

Modifié par Deztyn, 20 février 2010 - 01:07 .

[Akrylik]

Deztyn wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Chained_Creator wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Shepard doesn't kill for money (Thane) or pleasure (Morinth)

No, Shepard just kills people be he/she thinks he/she knows what is right and wrong and because the end (saving the galaxy) justifies the means (killing people who get in the way).

not my (paragon) Shep; she only kills the bad guys
...but you are right of course (renegade Shep isn't better)

Pfft. You recruited Garrus. That's some serious moral ambiguity right there. "I'm going to join up with a bunch of freelance mercs, most of whom are just looking for a quick buck or adventure, in order to get close to Archangel, and then I'm going to gun them all down when their backs are turned."

You can't play this game at all and try to claim that Shepard is completely righteous.

those mercs enlisted to aid blue suns/blood pact/eclipse, hence they are working for gangs. Shepard wasn't necisarily killing good people.

[MutantSpleen]

What about that kid if you didn't warn him off? He was fairly innocent. If Garrus hadn't plugged him first, you would have shot him in the back.

Modifié par MutantSpleen, 20 février 2010 - 01:22 .

[Deztyn]

They might not have been all 'good' people. But at the absolute least they were people who trusted you to watch their backs. Shepard watched 'em all right.

Edit: And not being a completely good person isn't enough say they were worthy of death. This is Omega, filled to the brim with people who have nothing and nowhere to go.

Modifié par Deztyn, 20 février 2010 - 01:28 .

[WoodWizzard87]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

RattleSnake08 wrote...

As Thane puts it, he did not kill them, his body did as it is just a tool.

Please don't use that BS excuse. Thats like a Concentration camp officer saying I was just a tool for Hitler when he is captured and being allowed to walk out free.

The SS and Gestapo killed all the jews, and they liked it, due to being brain washed by a criminal mastermind.  The "Waffen", ,regular German army,  didnt kill the jews, im pretty sure alot of them only came to the calling of the motherland and didnt even know about the concentration camps.  Thane was an assassin to evil people, and the end is justified by the means. One less Nassana n the galaxy is fine by me.

[BHRamsay]

I brought her along just once and talking with her quickly realized what it much be like for BIOWARE mods to read these forums. Her interest/fascination with death in general and Shep in particular becomes really disturbing -- the 8itch really creeps me out.

[GuardianAngel470]

tonnactus wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

 The difference is that Shepard and Thane don't kill innocents

Do you really think thane never killed innocents?Again,look at the example of his son.He starts his career with a try to kill a innocent turian politican.
If thane only kill bad guys where wouldnt be a reason to regret his past actions (prayer for the BAD).Why,if he made the world better.
The thought alone that assasins only kill bad people is really amusing.

That innocent turian politician was using a Blood Pack mercenary to extort votes from bartenders and intimidate humans.  In US and as far as I know Canadian law, extortion a major felony, and because the game was made by canadians, I'm guessing that carries over into the ME universe, making the turian politician a criminal.  When I found out I could kill him, I did it every time.  He deserved it and I'm a Spectre, I make my own laws. 

[IccaRa]

I don't see what Kolyat's contract has to do with Thane. Thane didn't want to kill the turian, Kolyat did. In fact if you do shoot the turian Thane tells you he doesn't question your logic, only your morality. IE, he doesn't approve of what you did, but he won't question you.



And the fact that the entire mission revolves around Thane trying to convince Kolyat NOT to follow in his footsteps kinda makes that argument moot.

[GodWood]

Just throwing this out here, to be a mass murderer you have to kill multiple people at once, an example being like a terrorist.

Morinth and Thane only kill people individualy therefore not "mass murderers".





Shepard's a murderer.