193 réponses à ce sujet

[Bryy_Miller]

Feraele wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

Oh noes, a company that created their own world, decided what canon and what isn't!

More like allowing the player to make the canon. If you made the US, and you don't want to play as your dead character, simply do not import him. The consequences of killing your main character in regards to the importing feature should of been clear to people from the get-go.

DID YOU READ the subject of this conversation...AT ALL?   We KNOW ..that the easy solution is to just omit the fact that you played that character for 50 to 80 hours..that Bioware has decided that making your dead warden walk around after dying ..IS MORE IMPORTANT ..than continuity of the story...therefore the Ultimate Sacrifice is NULL AND VOID.

This conversation has been going on for 19 days now, if you are so willing to jump in and offer advice, also be aware of what the issues are.

People posting their thoughts in these two threads are NOT willing to hand-waive and pretend  their warden never died, even though he or she did.

Even though we as Grey wardens are taught that we must kill the Archdemon...because WE ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT CAN DO IT this has suddenly become...not important.  Non-existant, never happened...denied.    Null and void.

When you die..there should be some sort of credit passed onward..some sort of acknowledgement of your sacrifice.  A small conversation with "someone" that gives credit where credit is due.

This of course won't matter to some person who zips thru cut-scenes..escapes dialogue and plays for the achievements and moar uberness. 

It does however, matter to those of us who play the story for the rpg aspects, therefore...when Bioware makes it more important..to allow the dead to walk, than to give some small credit to the most heroic ending there can be in Origins.....there's something wrong with that picture.

I don't see how my statement meant that I did not read the thread or do not understand the "issues". But, honestly, you people say you care about the story, and then you turn around and complain about how an optional feature in a game all about options is ruining it....

I mean, come on.

Don't. Import. Your. Dead. Warden. If you care about story. 

I also think you're being extremely generalizing and stand-offish by assuming that just because others don't give a ****, that means they don't care about the story, either.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 05 mars 2010 - 08:17 .

[SamboScoots]

A lot of tears in this thread.

[Wompoo]

Storm in a tea cup... easy solution, don't play your dead warden. Cannon ending has been applied.. deal with it or go cry in a corner.

[Greifvogel]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

More like allowing the player to make the canon. If you made the US, and you don't want to play as your dead character, simply do not import him. The consequences of killing your main character in regards to the importing feature should of been clear to people from the get-go.

I don‘t understand; why would you think that not being able to import the features (like the story) is clear from the get-go? The way I see it, the game was marketed as one that embodies the very opposite, no?


And (not solely directed at Bryy_Miller) this is why these people are very much in their right to „whine“ about it. Quality or amount of it however is something else entirely.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I don't see where this canon BS is coming from they obviously took into account that your Warden didn't make it they just didn't implement it with your save which is frustrating.



Also didn't roleplay right?



I'd be better off be not roleplaying at all. I seriously have no idea what that means. Looks like for every game Bioware makes I'm going to have to check the forums to see which character I should play and which path I should take or else I might not end up roleplaying right.

[YohkoOhno]

The reason we have an US ending is for this reason.



For some people, this DA:O game is it. There are people who don't pick up sequels, and people who pick up sequels without ever having played the original. The designers developed a plot and allowed an ending that would be satisfying to that particular player. Thus, it is very likely any player who decided to make an US ending would have expected not to play any expansion. Not every game player is going to buy every DLC, Expansion, Sequel, whatever. This is also the reason why they have such a complex ending.



So, it is for this reason that choice is allowed. This is also the reason why they are allowing a "you survived" scenario for the purpose of gamers who didn't expect an expansion to perhaps use their best character, as well as a new Grey Warden for character who don't have an existing one suitable for advanced play.



Now, as far as having one character get mentioned in the expansion/sequel where you are playing another character--I think referencing that went a little above and beyond duty. I certainly don't see it as necessary to have fun. I can also understand the technical limitations involved in the import of third party variables. I personally think anybody who chose US should expect to not play future games with that character, and that Bioware is under no obligation to "fix things" just for those players. It stands to reason that anybody who chose US is putting an end to that storyline.

[Bryy_Miller]

Greifvogel wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

More like allowing the player to make the canon. If you made the US, and you don't want to play as your dead character, simply do not import him. The consequences of killing your main character in regards to the importing feature should of been clear to people from the get-go.

I don‘t understand; why would you think that not being able to import the features (like the story) is clear from the get-go? The way I see it, the game was marketed as one that embodies the very opposite, no?

I'm not talking about the Choices system. I'm talking about the basic idea of the US.

[AlanC9]

Bryy_Miller wrote...


Don't. Import. Your. Dead. Warden. If you care about story. 

Sure. But then what's the point of having an Orlesian Warden option? The only reason I wanted to play one was to use the US ending.

[master-fluff]

Exactly, AlanC9.



When playing the Orlesian warden I want everyone to know that the GW who killed the 5th AD was Tod Mahariel (my awesome Dalish female rogue), for Oghren's baby to have my name and for Alistair to be king (he's why I sacrificed myself after all).



I don't want some Aedan Cousland to be the 5th GW hero who's somehow lucked his way into the history books. WhoTF is he anyway ?

[EmperorSahlertz]

I was always under the impression that if you imported you US Warden he would be dead and you would be playing as an Orlesian Warden with the US Warden's plot choices in effect. Guess i got the wrong impression.



But why is this an issue again? If you don't like the fact that you can import a dead warden... don't.. He won't mind (being dead and all... and a computer character).



The reason they let us import an US Warden is probably to save us the time it would take to make a new playthrough with the choices that Warden did.

[Murphys_Law]

Feraele wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

IndomitusRex wrote...

How do you propose that Bioware supports a storyline in which your character is dead. The only real option I can see is you start off as an Orlesian Grey Warden, and there's a footnote that says, "hey, this Grey Warden from Ferelden totally killed the Archdemon". Because it's not like your [dead] character can add anything further to the story.

So you agree with us.  Basically ???

Sounds like it..and thats all we've been saying....might be nice if before they jumped into a thread to complain about the subject of conversation...they actually took time to READ and UNDERSTAND.

I  realize that is too much to ask these days..when putting punctuation and paragraphs in their typing..is considered to be "roleplaying"(according to an actual post I saw)   LOL I wonder how they manage at school ..or maybe they don't.

The roleplaying reference was from another thread where someone refused to make it easier for the rest of us to read what the  heck he was saying.  

And you are failing to understand the counter to that argument.  You have limitations when making games, they cannot just hand wave reality and keep working on a game until they deem it perfect.  Even then I am sure people will find something to complain about.  You also conveniently ignore a group of players that still wants to play his/her dead warden even after he chose the US ending.  And, as I stated before, I see it entirely resonable that there are some large technical issues with importing a "dead" character and having those choices effect a new character.  Either way it is going to take some serious changes to make it work and I just don't see it being feasible in a expansion set.  I repeat, expansion set, this is not a full sequel.

[Axekix]

master-fluff wrote...
I don't want some Aedan Cousland to be the 5th GW hero who's somehow lucked his way into the history books. WhoTF is he anyway ?

The canon Grey Warden.

[fthg42]

Axekix wrote...

master-fluff wrote...
I don't want some Aedan Cousland to be the 5th GW hero who's somehow lucked his way into the history books. WhoTF is he anyway ?

The canon Grey Warden.

Again, though it may seem to you that HMN is the canonical Warden, I want to emphasize that there has been no official word or confirmation that a canon for DA:O even exists.  Until we hear otherwise from Bioware on the matter, we can't assume that any one Warden is the canonical Warden, if there even is a canonical Warden.  On the contrary, the ability to import your DA:O Wardens and the assertion that our choices do matter seem to indicate the opposite, that there is no canon story for Dragon Age (at least as far as Awakening is concerned).

One might infer that Trailer Warden/screenshot Warden is a candidate for the canonical Warden, but most likely he's simply a marketing placeholder, similar to defaultShepard.  Nowhere (as far as I'm aware) has it been stated otherwise.

Modifié par fthg42, 05 mars 2010 - 09:58 .

[Bryy_Miller]

AlanC9 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...


Don't. Import. Your. Dead. Warden. If you care about story. 

Sure. But then what's the point of having an Orlesian Warden option? The only reason I wanted to play one was to use the US ending.

Then that's a valid concern. "Because it's roleplay", however, is not.

[Morroian]

Murphys_Law wrote...

And you are failing to understand the counter to that argument.  You have limitations when making games, they cannot just hand wave reality and keep working on a game until they deem it perfect.  Even then I am sure people will find something to complain about.  You also conveniently ignore a group of players that still wants to play his/her dead warden even after he chose the US ending.  And, as I stated before, I see it entirely resonable that there are some large technical issues with importing a "dead" character and having those choices effect a new character. 

So why not come out and say so? Maybe there are technical issues with DAO not saving the US properly but they could at least confirm this.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Hrm, I think people take too much stock in what marketers put out in advance for a product.

[Feraele]

Well I guess according to the live chat...time was NOT taken to give any kind of credit to your Ultimate Sacrifice ...PLOT HOLE..and thats that.



So be it.....the rest of the expansion needs to measure up is all I can say.

[fthg42]

Hah, Feraele beat me to the punch, but I'll chip in anyways:

During the live chat Q&A, Ferret said that the hand-waving import of a dead Warden will not be explained, and will be left up to the player how the Warden magically survived.  Ferret also mentioned that they were aware of fans wanting our decisions to carry over for the Orlesian Warden, and he alluded to it being a technical issue as to why it's not possible.  Apparently it would've taken too many zots to figure out, so they put their resources elsewhere for the expansion.

Myself, I'm glad they finally offered definitive word and an explanation for the situation, and that they at least were aware of and acknowledged the issue.  Fair deal as far as I'm concerned.

[Reaverwind]

Feraele wrote...

Well I guess according to the live chat...time was NOT taken to give any kind of credit to your Ultimate Sacrifice ...PLOT HOLE..and thats that.

So be it.....the rest of the expansion needs to measure up is all I can say.

It's why I'm waiting on this one - I don't mind spoilers, so I'll see what other think on how well the story and characters are done, since imo, without those, DA hasn't got game, so to speak.

[Feraele]

Reaverwind wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Well I guess according to the live chat...time was NOT taken to give any kind of credit to your Ultimate Sacrifice ...PLOT HOLE..and thats that.

So be it.....the rest of the expansion needs to measure up is all I can say.

It's why I'm waiting on this one - I don't mind spoilers, so I'll see what other think on how well the story and characters are done, since imo, without those, DA hasn't got game, so to speak.

Unfortunately thats what I should have done.....mea culpa.

[ThingsThatGoBoom]

BioWare look at what you've done, you've created a massive s***storm with Awakening

[Bryy_Miller]

Feraele wrote...

Well I guess according to the live chat...time was NOT taken to give any kind of credit to your Ultimate Sacrifice ...PLOT HOLE..and thats that.
.

A plot hole that doesn't exist if you don't import your character. 

[DrAnaconda]

So assuming you chose the US ending and don't import your character. Does the fact that you refused Morrigan's offer effect the events of Awakening? Can I simply start a new character and then it will fit with the story? I kind of got the impression that the events of Awakening had something to do with the consequences of the baby storyline. Am I wrong?

[grieferbastard]

As tempting as it can feel to say 'don't complain since that won't fix it' it's as unrealistic to say as it is realistic to expect BioWare to change Awakenings at this point.

It does suck. It's unfortunate that carrying the plot choices from US characters into Awakenings isn't going to be viable. There will certianly be players who don't buy the expansion because of that. Another sad thing because it's probably going to be an awesome addition to the whole DA game. I would say that it's worth keeping in mind that BioWare wants people to buy their products are not not leaving things out they know people want because they think it's funny to screw anyone over. I have heard that Chris Priestly spends his weekends slapping around under-privileged children and David Gaider eats a kitten for dinner every single day but these are more 'evil as a hobby' as opposed to 'evil as a lifestyle'.

You know what we need? We need a Dragon Age US thread to post screen caps of US Wardens.

How about someone who's got a US character start this? I've not finished mine (playing a lot of DA tabletop lately) but a thread with a screen cap of some pivotal final moment, either killing the dragon or at their eulogy or such and some final stats like name, level, class, who they romanced if anyone, etc. would be cool. I'd read it regularly. If enough people jump on it maybe we can get it stickied.