209 réponses à ce sujet

[XX55XX]

Combing through the data from my survey, I have arrived at why Kaidan and Jacob have such low mean scores.

Some people claim that they are "hated", but I propose that this is not the case whatsoever.

I believe that people don't like them because they are surrounded and eclipsed by far more interesting and memorable characters. It is not that they are badly written characters whatsoever - but that people see them as inherently bland characters, surrounded by aliens who have greater stories to tell.

Personally, I like these characters and don't mind them very much at all - but in the face of characters like Mordin, Legion, Garrus, Tali, etc, etc, they just don't stand out whatsoever.

Hence, this concludes my theory... need to get back to studying statistics if I can...

[Gill Kaiser]

True. It's because they're pretty much "the reasonable one" of their respective games.

[this isnt my name]

I hated kaiden, he just complained and I hated Jacob becaus of the fem shep dialouge.

[SL22]

We see humans all the time so we naturally plant it in our head that they're boring characters.

On the other hand aliens are ****ing awesome.

[XX55XX]

SL22 wrote...

We see humans all the time so we naturally plant it in our head that they're boring characters.

On the other hand aliens are ****ing awesome.

Exactly.

[trh5001]

I hated kaiden cause I thought he was a dead ringer for the guy from dashboard confessional and I don't need there gd songs getting stuck in my head every time I go down to the locker. I was sorry it happened but he had to die or I was never gonna have peace.

[Jimbe2693]

How are Ashley and Miranda any more interesting?

"My daddy made me perfect"
and
"I don't trust aliens"

Aliens are most interesting but nobody ever mentions how boring Miranda is etc just Kaidan or Jacob

Modifié par Jimbe2693, 19 février 2010 - 03:27 .

[Speakeasy13]

Kaiden was boring, but bearable. Thing is he generally has very little redeeming quality. On the other hand there's very little reason to dislike him to begin with.



Jacob, on the other hand, really gets on my nerve with his holier-than-thou attitude. Remember how he badmouthed Thane when the latter come onboard? I was like, "No one asked you to speak... you c**t, last time I checked you're just a hired gun yourself!" Idealistic people like him wouldn't be able to survive the real world. Who doesn't want to shoot him in the face?

[Toxik King]

Jimbe2693 wrote...

How are Ashley and Miranda any more interesting?

"My daddy made me perfect"
and
"I don't trust aliens"

Ass and boobs
and
Not blue and squidy

[this isnt my name]

Jimbe2693 wrote...

How are Ashley and Miranda any more interesting?

"My daddy made me perfect"
and
"I don't trust aliens"

Ash is more interesting as she has a reason to dislike aliens, shes more interesting but only slightly. Miranda on the other hand was on the same level as kaiden/jacob "Im genetically engineered, I hate my dad, I love cerberus" thats all there is about her.

[Estelindis]

Well, just speaking for the ladies, the most common reason I've seen for disliking Jacob is FemShep's horrendously over-flirty vocal delivery when talking with him.



As for Kaidan, I think he's a lot more popular with girls than with guys, and more guys than girls play this game. *shrugs*

[XX55XX]

Jimbe2693 wrote...

How are Ashley and Miranda any more interesting?

"My daddy made me perfect"
and
"I don't trust aliens"

Aliens are most interesting but nobody ever mentions how boring Miranda is etc just Kaidan or Jacob

They are female and they are also somewhat attractive. That is why they have a slightly higher mean score.

Sorry, but human males in a game like this are likely to get shafted by the majority of the fanbase.

[this isnt my name]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Kaiden was boring, but bearable. Thing is he generally has very little redeeming quality. On the other hand there's very little reason to dislike him to begin with.

Jacob, on the other hand, really gets on my nerve with his holier-than-thou attitude. Remember how he badmouthed Thane when the latter come onboard? I was like, "No one asked you to speak... you c**t, last time I checked you're just a hired gun yourself!" Idealistic people like him wouldn't be able to survive the real world. Who doesn't want to shoot him in the face?

What realy got me was the remark after recruiting Tali, he deliberately brought up the topic of having an AI on board and suggested she meet it...I think I may send him through the vents this time...Yeah no Jacob in ME3 then.

[Bartlebyfinch]

I like Jacob quite a bit more than Kaiden. I never liked using Kaiden in my party because I never found him to be as powerful/useful as other team options (though he wasn't as useless as Ashley). Jacob's power mix has actually worked really well for me in ME2. I like him as a pullbot, I like his survivability once you unlock barrier, and (most importantly) he has access to squad incendary ammo.

From a personality PoV, I prefer Jacob even more. As a general rule, I HATE characters that whine, second guess themselves, and refuse to stick by their guns. I would much rather the character believe in something that I loathe than not really BELIEVE in anything. Because of this, I loved Ash (as a character) and hated Kaiden.

Jacob, I have no problem with. He's a soldier, and he's a practical one. He's a level-headed as Kaiden was in ME1, but not nearly as self-doubting.


As far as the Femshep dialogue with Jacob goes, I will agree wholeheartedly. I squash romances ASAP with all of the male characters when I play Femshep because I hate ALL of the flirty dialogue. Kelly > every other romance in the game for me.

EDIT:  I really feel for the (straight) female players as far as the flirty dialogue goes.  Male Shep says a couple of cheesy things when he goes into "romance mode," but he's generally still himself.  When you switch Femshep into romance mode, the voice/dialogue gets really bad.  This is especially true with the Jacob romance.

Modifié par Bartlebyfinch, 19 février 2010 - 03:42 .

[Mox Ruuga]

SL22 wrote...

We see humans all the time so we naturally plant it in our head that they're boring characters.

On the other hand aliens are ****ing awesome.

That's not the whole story. Compare Zevran and Alistair in DA:O. Zevran is the exotic bisexual elf assassin, Alistair is the straight laced Paladin type. Guess which one is more popular? Surprisingly, it's good ol' Al. It's his sense of humor and self deprecation, I guess.

Want to make a popular human leading man devs? Look at the DA:O team, and learn.

Having said all that, Kaidan is actually deceptively popular. He does get a lot of bashing from the younger fanboy types, but in the end I think he just might have the most fans still waiting for his return when ME3 is released, of the ME1 LIs. Certainly more than will be waiting for Jacob...

[Speakeasy13]

Lunarionsilver wrote...

I don't know. Kaidan is my Shepard's main LI, and Jacob is a good character; could do without the forced flirtation though.
I don't find them boring at all. Seeing as how Mass Effect is science fiction however, that means any aliens will always be more interesting than humans. We're already human, see humans everyday. Something new is something fun and exciting.

Except there are human characters in the games that are MUCH more interesting (and fleshed out) than those two. Zaeed, Miranda and Jack are all well-done, both interms of visual design and character.

People tend to ignore Zaeed because he lacks a dialogue tree. But he's actually the most developed of the bunch. They are just too lazy to talk to him and find out. Their loss.

Miranda and Jack, even Ashley, have qualities that you'd love to hate. Their JUSTIFIED (well maybe Ash' xenophobia is hardly that) flaws make them convincing, and ultimately memorable - wether you like them or not, you'd remember them.

Kaiden and Jacob fits in neither scenario. Hell, even Kasumi, an unconfirmed character, packs more visual punch than those two. It appears Bioware was trying to mold them into the generic LI for the ladies, but they all ended up very generic. Like the highschool jock whose face you can't remember after all these years.

If Bioware will read this, here's how I think both characters can be improved: Kaiden has that 1960's Elvis wannabe look going. Develop it. Make him more grooving, he could use the comic relief. Ad for Jacob, have him go to some dark places Garrus style. I really wanted to have him shoot his own father, just to develop his character farther and see how that pans out.

If you're worried they'd repeat the Garrus disillusioning process, have Jacob actually go so dark he can't turn back anymore. Turn him into an villainous anti-hero. It's not gonna please the fan boys, but it'd the best for the character.

Modifié par Speakeasy13, 19 février 2010 - 03:42 .

[Gill Kaiser]

Jacob was a cool dude, and generally a nice guy. He was a decent character, but he was in the company of a bunch of excellent and supremely interesting characters to whom he paled in comparison.

Kaidan was much, much too passive. I didn't like him much. Plus, he was soiled by association with Carth the Whiner.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 19 février 2010 - 03:43 .

[Mox Ruuga]

I see the "Carth" thing has been brought up again...

I never played those KOTOR games. Was he really that bad? Another Anomen? Or is it just another case of "fanboys hating on the LI for the female PC"?

[Goat_Shepard]

Glad I could only get as far as the first 2 or 3 sentences from FemShep before I turned off the game. Jennifer Hale flirting is part of that ME2 content I'm willing to never listen to.

Also, I liked boring Kaiden over jealous religious xenophobe Ashley. Do I kill the squaddie with the most baggage, or the guy that isn't asking me why I'm not somewhere else talking to someone different.

OP is right about Jacob. I love him, but the other characters were just so interesting. It would also help if every time I talked to Jacob he didn't say "I'm not fond of forcing these talks, Captain" but I spose his dialogue is for the FemSheps.

Bartlebyfinch is right about him being a solid morals character. Jacob's loyalty mission was epic, I love the way he said "What the hell".

Anyways kudos to the OP for explaining the "hate". Another reason is that people have spent 150+ hours on ME1...so that same ol' dialogue will eventually get to you..I haven't spoiled ME2's characters yet after 100+ hours so we'll see.

[Console Cowboy]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

I see the "Carth" thing has been brought up again...

I never played those KOTOR games. Was he really that bad? Another Anomen? Or is it just another case of "fanboys hating on the LI for the female PC"?

he was quite annoying. no one my character would have ever wanted to romance. if you chose to play an evil character he was exponentially worse. it took me quite awhile to overlook the voice acting and give Kaidan a fair shot.

[Goat_Shepard]

this isnt my name wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Kaiden was boring, but bearable. Thing is he generally has very little redeeming quality. On the other hand there's very little reason to dislike him to begin with.

Jacob, on the other hand, really gets on my nerve with his holier-than-thou attitude. Remember how he badmouthed Thane when the latter come onboard? I was like, "No one asked you to speak... you c**t, last time I checked you're just a hired gun yourself!" Idealistic people like him wouldn't be able to survive the real world. Who doesn't want to shoot him in the face?

What realy got me was the remark after recruiting Tali, he deliberately brought up the topic of having an AI on board and suggested she meet it...I think I may send him through the vents this time...Yeah no Jacob in ME3 then.

Sorry off-topic, but I still don't get this part. Is this a geth reference that pushed Tali's buttons?

[TyDurden13]

I didn't think Jacob was boring - he just didn't have enough dialogue.