209 réponses à ce sujet

[Mox Ruuga]

scyphozoa wrote...

I like Jacob's character, script and voice acting better than Kaidan. I do find both characters have exceptionally inefficient skill sets. Kaidan died on normal difficulty of ME1. that is how weak he was.
Jacob is always the first of both my teammates to drop too.

this isn't like a 1 time example, this is after hours and hours of playing both games with both characters. it is my belief that people dislike the characters that are weak or not useful. if you gave them better skill sets, maybe they wouldn't be viewed as such weaklings.

Agreed with Jacob about the weak skill set, but Kaidan? WTH? He was a one man wrecking crew, as any Sentinel is in ME1, effective against any sort of enemy. Really, the only thing he was missing was Warp for Krogans (and other Immunity mongers), but Neural Shock and other biotics can handle those well enough, as long as there isn't too many all at once...

[taigin]

For me personally i thought Kaidan was a really well done character. Being a marine i thought his attitude was proffessional and fit his role. As a LI i thought it was very mature and it was a nice build up (where i felt the characters were fighting with themselves as it's not totally appropriate for two crew mates to get involved). I didn't play as a male Shepard but I can imagine he doesn't play out as well since in my opinion the romance put most flavour to him.



Jacob on the other hand is a totally different story. It's a shame they had to give Shepard the flirtatious stance when talking to him, because Kaidan being the imported LI made me really dislike Jacob. I usually try to learn as much as possible about my squad in games in general but this made me stop talk with him during the rest of the game as it was too immersive breaking. So i think a lot of the "hate" towards Jacob stems from this, which several has pointed out as the reasn why they dislike him.

[SkywardDescent]

Yeah, I don't hate either of them, I just don't find them interesting, same with miranda.

I know it seems like it because their human, but I don't quite think so, I mean, I find Samara the least interesting of both games.

[Valmy]

Jimbe2693 wrote...

How are Ashley and Miranda any more interesting?

"My daddy made me perfect"
and
"I don't trust aliens"

Aliens are most interesting but nobody ever mentions how boring Miranda is etc just Kaidan or Jacob

I find them both very interesting.  I could easily reduce any character in the game to a cliche phrase and pretend that is all there is.  But you would have to be a pretty boring person yourself to do that.

But then I didn't find Kaidan or Jacob boring at all either.

[oneword]

this isnt my name wrote...

What realy got me was the remark after recruiting Tali, he deliberately brought up the topic of having an AI on board and suggested she meet it...I think I may send him through the vents this time...Yeah no Jacob in ME3 then.

exactly! - this was a moment when I really waited for renegade interuption... something like *shut the *** up* or *airlock him* >-<

[cerberus1701]

Yeah...I agree with the above about Jacob. I would have loved an option to tell him, "Newsflash, dude. Tell yourself whatever you want, but you're just a merc like the rest of them. You're just better funded.



And one to bounce his skull off the conference table after that needless dig at Tali. Way to begin rehabing Cerberus' reputation for her, eh?



Kaiden and Ash are both bland characters, but I like Kaiden more for a variety of reasons.

[EverteMax]

Anything in ME2, even the toilets on Normandy SR2 > Kaidan, Ashley.

Jacob can be pretty flatline in the game, but at least he's not as flatline as Kaidan. Kaidan is like if he doesn't make a sound, you don't know he damn well exist, cause he's so forgettable.

Miranda gets the job done, Ashley just hates aliens and can't do anything, thinking that she can.

If the both of them ever get aboard the SR2, I'm getting EDI to vent the hold. She can do it in 28 secs. Might be the longest in my life...but 28 secs well spent.

I rather have a fem shepard romance joker, mentioning that, i do think ME3 should include joker to be a romance target. If they make him a LI, I will break my habit and start with a fem shepard!

[Valmy]

oneword wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

What realy got me was the remark after recruiting Tali, he deliberately brought up the topic of having an AI on board and suggested she meet it...I think I may send him through the vents this time...Yeah no Jacob in ME3 then.

exactly! - this was a moment when I really waited for renegade interuption... something like *shut the *** up* or *airlock him* >-<

He brought it up because she was going to be working on the ship.  What next?  Recomend he get thrown out for showing her the bathroom?

[The Governator]

XX55XX wrote...

Combing through the data from my survey, I have arrived at why Kaidan and Jacob have such low mean scores.

Some people claim that they are "hated", but I propose that this is not the case whatsoever.

I believe that people don't like them because they are surrounded and eclipsed by far more interesting and memorable characters. It is not that they are badly written characters whatsoever - but that people see them as inherently bland characters, surrounded by aliens who have greater stories to tell.

Personally, I like these characters and don't mind them very much at all - but in the face of characters like Mordin, Legion, Garrus, Tali, etc, etc, they just don't stand out whatsoever.

Hence, this concludes my theory... need to get back to studying statistics if I can...

I like Kaidan, though he was FAR FAR too preachy in ME2.  Jacob is a great guy, but his story was not compelling at all.  

[Console Cowboy]

i still don't think the AI comment was malicious. just insensitive. he was very welcoming to Tali up to that point, even in spite of her attitude.

[this isnt my name]

oneword wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

What realy got me was the remark after recruiting Tali, he deliberately brought up the topic of having an AI on board and suggested she meet it...I think I may send him through the vents this time...Yeah no Jacob in ME3 then.

exactly! - this was a moment when I really waited for renegade interuption... something like *shut the *** up* or *airlock him* >-<

Yep, always on the moral ighground and for no reason (Tali was right about cerberus, he admits this himself) decides to cause trouble, not only did this make him a **** but it could have effected the mission, due to qurain relations with AI and cerberus, he showed then what an idiotic trouble maker he was.

I think it was, everyone knows about the quarians relations with AI, he didnt need to say it, he did and it could easily endanger the mission because of the quarians and AI dont get along.

Modifié par this isnt my name, 19 février 2010 - 04:03 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Kaidan was sort of a tricky case for me. My first playthrough I was a Male Vanguard who always had Tali in my team. So Kaidan didn't get used because he brought nothing to the team that wasn't already there. (Already had a techy, a biotic and his weapon/armor were poor).

My third slot usually defaulted to a Ashley, Wrex, or someone I thought would be good for a particular segment. He was so horribly underused that when Virmire came up, it was no contest who'd I try to save. That's when Kaidan had what I felt was his shining moment to me. A spectacular and moving death scene.

I mean this honestly, not jokingly. Here is this guy I never used and I felt truly horrible about what happened to him. Was an emotional moment. Because he died so well, I decided I didn't give him nearly enough of a chance. So when I did my second playthrough as FemShep, I decided he earned his chance in the sun. I planned not only to use him as much as Tali, but make him the Love Interest as well.

This was where my problems with the character came in. He was so very wish-washy in the relationship, and so very unwilling to commit to actually saying he wanted to be in one, that FemShep started feeling she was Sexually harassing him. The only time he showed any interest was when he started giving her crap about Liara (Which happened before I ever actually had a private conversation with her). The relationship started feeling increasingly unsatisfying to me because of how he wouldn't step up to it.

So that's the story of the lower rating Kaidan got with me. Nice guy but not useful to me on Maleshep, Highly annoying as Femshep. I thought it might have just been me until I heard my wife screaming about Kaidan on her Playthrough. She was begging for a Renegade Interrupt on Horizon when she ran into him.

Jacob got a more 'mediocre' score with me. Thought he was a great guy and very useful on either playthrough, but as the game went on you get much better squadmate choices. As Femshep, I found talking to him extremely awkward, mainly due to FemShep's lines. So that cost him some points.

[Valmy]

Console Cowboy wrote...

i still don't think the AI comment was malicious. just insensitive. he was very welcoming to Tali up to that point, even in spite of her attitude.

Right is Jacob supposed to be some sort of Quarian expert?

Besides it is not like Tali was going to be working on the ship and not figure out there is an onboard AI eventually.

[Speakeasy13]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Kaiden was boring, but bearable. Thing is he generally has very little redeeming quality. On the other hand there's very little reason to dislike him to begin with.

Jacob, on the other hand, really gets on my nerve with his holier-than-thou attitude. Remember how he badmouthed Thane when the latter come onboard? I was like, "No one asked you to speak... you c**t, last time I checked you're just a hired gun yourself!" Idealistic people like him wouldn't be able to survive the real world. Who doesn't want to shoot him in the face?

What realy got me was the remark after recruiting Tali, he deliberately brought up the topic of having an AI on board and suggested she meet it...I think I may send him through the vents this time...Yeah no Jacob in ME3 then.

Sorry off-topic, but I still don't get this part. Is this a geth reference that pushed Tali's buttons?

Well all Qurians are very touchy to the subject of AIs as it reminds them too much of the Geth. They were bascially blamed for creating the Geth from VIs that evolved into AI.

[Cutlass Jack]

Console Cowboy wrote...

i still don't think the AI comment was malicious. just insensitive. he was very welcoming to Tali up to that point, even in spite of her attitude.

Jacob's comment wasn't purposeful. He was actually trying to be helpful and didn't really think about what he was saying. He was quite fond and respectful to her overall throughout the game.

[Valmy]

this isnt my name wrote...
Yep, always on the moral ighground and for no reason (Tali was right about cerberus, he admits this himself) decides to cause trouble, not only did this make him a **** but it could have effected the mission, due to qurain relations with AI and cerberus, he showed then what an idiotic trouble maker he was.

*facepalm*

So I guess the better solution is to lie to Tali and keep the truth that there is a shipboard AI running things?  Wow no trouble making there.

[this isnt my name]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Kaiden was boring, but bearable. Thing is he generally has very little redeeming quality. On the other hand there's very little reason to dislike him to begin with.

Jacob, on the other hand, really gets on my nerve with his holier-than-thou attitude. Remember how he badmouthed Thane when the latter come onboard? I was like, "No one asked you to speak... you c**t, last time I checked you're just a hired gun yourself!" Idealistic people like him wouldn't be able to survive the real world. Who doesn't want to shoot him in the face?

What realy got me was the remark after recruiting Tali, he deliberately brought up the topic of having an AI on board and suggested she meet it...I think I may send him through the vents this time...Yeah no Jacob in ME3 then.

Sorry off-topic, but I still don't get this part. Is this a geth reference that pushed Tali's buttons?

The atmosphere is already cold, yet he brings that up, obviously given her history with the geth she wasnt happy, I saw no need for him to bring it up.

[Valmy]

scyphozoa wrote...

woah i would disagree. the "make sure you introduce yourself to our AI" is absolutely a condescending insult. it isn't in line with jacob's personality, but there is no way you could say that to a quarian without it being extremely condescending and insulting. clearly a jab imo

If you are going to be working on the ship you do need to know about the AI.  How should he have communicated that exactly?  There was NOTHING condescending or insulting about his tone at all.  It wasn't clearly anything you are projecting malice and rudeness where it did not exist.

[Tooneyman]

Kaiden was useful for the FEmshep. Jacob was cool, because him and my shep got drinks after the final mission. Holla!

[Tooneyman]

Kaiden was useful for the FEmshep. Jacob was cool, because him and my shep got drinks after the final mission. Holla!

[reepneep]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Kaiden was boring, but bearable. Thing is he generally has very little redeeming quality. On the other hand there's very little reason to dislike him to begin with.

Jacob, on the other hand, really gets on my nerve with his holier-than-thou attitude. Remember how he badmouthed Thane when the latter come onboard? I was like, "No one asked you to speak... you c**t, last time I checked you're just a hired gun yourself!" Idealistic people like him wouldn't be able to survive the real world. Who doesn't want to shoot him in the face?

What realy got me was the remark after recruiting Tali, he deliberately brought up the topic of having an AI on board and suggested she meet it...I think I may send him through the vents this time...Yeah no Jacob in ME3 then.

Sorry off-topic, but I still don't get this part. Is this a geth reference that pushed Tali's buttons?

Well all Qurians are very touchy to the subject of AIs as it reminds them too much of the Geth. They were bascially blamed for creating the Geth from VIs that evolved into AI.

I'm pretty sure it was deliberate.  Tali was being seriously ****y and rude to someone she had barely traded words with before then.  I think it was just his sly way of returning her venom.

[SiSeNxx]

I thought Jacob was a whole lot more interesting than Kaidan at least.
Kaidan's just kind of very... 'hurr durr i'm a biotic i went to biotic school i'm pretty close to neutral on everything i'm so whitebread it hurts'
There was NOTHING to him.

Jacob, on the other hand, played out a whole lot more like an actual person; he had a good, realistic personality, and overall I was impressed with him, especially after having to deal with Kaidan in ME1. Of course Jacob's not as interesting as Garrus or Thane; partly because they're aliens which makes them different and interesting, and partly because well... we all knew Garrus from the first game and we were all already attached to him. And Thane had this huge backstory with a wife and a kid and all this interesting stuff whereas Jacob got 'I was in the military but then they kicked me out so I joined Cerberus'.

It just... I dunno. It seems there was less effort put into him than there was with Garrus and Thane. Or maybe there was the very same amount and he just wasn't meant to be all that interesting.

Modifié par SiSeNxx, 19 février 2010 - 04:10 .

[Valmy]

reepneep wrote...
I'm pretty sure it was deliberate.  Tali was being seriously ****y and rude to someone she had barely traded words with before then.  I think it was just his sly way of returning her venom.

Considering his tone was entirely that of trying to be helpful I find this hard to believe.

[Eshaye]

Estelindis wrote...

Well, just speaking for the ladies, the most common reason I've seen for disliking Jacob is FemShep's horrendously over-flirty vocal delivery when talking with him.

As for Kaidan, I think he's a lot more popular with girls than with guys, and more guys than girls play this game. *shrugs*

Basically. Kaidan was written for women, and so if you don't get to the parts where he's sweet and makes you melt, there's not much there, he's just a dude with biotics.
That's what I feel with Garrus in ME2, the only reason he's better is because we knew him in ME1, if he was a brand new character in ME2 and NOT a love interest he'd be a very weak character.

So the problem isn't the characters themselves, it's the lack of character dialogue and progression outside of their LI conversations please have all characters the same length in terms of progression and then ADD the LI dialogues, so you get more if you romance then and not get less if you don't, as is the case now.