209 réponses à ce sujet

[TerribleTruth]

They should have made Jacob more like the Cole Train.



LOOKIT ALL DAT JUICE

[Gamine]

Lumenadducere wrote...

I like both Kaidan and Jacob. I can see why people tend to think they're boring, but I find it somewhat refreshing to have well-adjusted characters that are all-around nice people. Granted, there are other (more interesting) characters out there, but my Shepards all enjoyed being friends with Kaidan and Jacob.
I do agree that FemShep's forced flirty tone was annoying, and I found it frustrating to be forced to truncate my conversations with him in order to avoid the romance. That's one thing in particular I really wish the developers had taken from the DA:O team - the parallel friendship paths. I thought my FemShep would be able to have a friendship with Thane, but then he called her "Siha" and I realized that even by picking the neutral options with him the romance was starting to form. At least with Jacob the neutral options led to the same "I'm good, Shepard" dialog that my MaleShep got.

Yes, agreed 100%. I found myself avoiding Jacob altogether just so I wouldn't have to deal with the "I'm more interested in just talking for a bit ;)". We did still wind up  at "S'ALL GOOD LET'S SPILL DRINKS TOGETHER AND SUCH" but..yeah, like you said, it was because I had to cut short much of the dialogue.
And Thane...nothing was more surprising than getting the option to say "I want you, Thane" in the middle of what was otherwise a very pleasant and friendly conversation. I just wanted to hear what the guy had to say, he's a very interesting character and I wanted to be his confidant, not his lover. I actually thought the nickname was cute in a platonic way as much as it was in a romantic way, but I still felt like I was inadvertantly building something up just by consistently picking the top choice.

There really needs to be separate paragon responses: one platonic, one romantic.

[DaeJi]

I think what it really comes down to is that Kaidan and Jacob carry very little baggage with them. And in fiction, the more baggage the better. Were these people real, Kaidan and Jacob are two great guys who I would love to be friends with while shaking in fear near any of the other squadmates. But in a story, give me the mental cases.

[cpolisch]

EbolaLola wrote...


Yes, agreed 100%. I found myself avoiding Jacob altogether just so I wouldn't have to deal with the "I'm more interested in just talking for a bit ;)". We did still wind up  at "S'ALL GOOD LET'S SPILL DRINKS TOGETHER AND SUCH" but..yeah, like you said, it was because I had to cut short much of the dialogue.
And Thane...nothing was more surprising than getting the option to say "I want you, Thane" in the middle of what was otherwise a very pleasant and friendly conversation. I just wanted to hear what the guy had to say, he's a very interesting character and I wanted to be his confidant, not his lover. I actually thought the nickname was cute in a platonic way as much as it was in a romantic way, but I still felt like I was inadvertantly building something up just by consistently picking the top choice.

There really needs to be separate paragon responses: one platonic, one romantic.

Wow.  So I wasn't the only one who stared at that option.  I seriously just kinda gawked at the screen for a good minute and a half thinking, this guy is telling a story about his wife and they're giving me this option to say I want you?  NOW?  Now is the appropriate time for this.  It just made no sense... just, the romances in ME2 were either way over the top, or way thrown in your face. 

I loved Kaidan's romance, and I love Kaidan.  I didn't find him boring at all because I don't have that "aliens are amazing" mentality.  I do like them, but not anymore than the humans by default.  Kaidan's romance made sense, it flowed, it was natural, all the romances in ME1 were... I liked them... well, Liara's is debatable, but that's just my personal opinion of not liking her.

I started out the game liking Jacob alot, I thought I was going to despise him because he was going to be a fill-in for Kaidan, but there were some distinct differences that made me genuinely like him... and I continued to............ until I talked to him on the Normandy.  I'm kinda surprised he didn't run off the ship right then with how ridiculously seductive she sounded, and they'd met like... 30 minutes ago.  It made me HATE him.  I htought of killing him off just for the heck of it after that.  I got through it and also ended up with the awkward bro hug... which is weird as a male, and as a female it's just WTF but yeah.  The romances seemed thrown together, Garrus' just ended up awkward, Thane's made no sense or either Shepard is apparently a total **** who thinks the appropriate time to come on to someone is when they are discussing their dead wife... and oddly enough, if you do choose it, Thane's okay with it.

I was impressed with ME2, but not with it's romances.  But Kaidan is not boring.  And he doesn't whine anymore than any other character.  You want whining?  Talk to Garrus about Sidonis.

[Cutlass Jack]

DaeJi wrote...

I think what it really comes down to is that Kaidan and Jacob carry very little baggage with them. And in fiction, the more baggage the better. Were these people real, Kaidan and Jacob are two great guys who I would love to be friends with while shaking in fear near any of the other squadmates. But in a story, give me the mental cases.

Shepard: "We all carry baggage Ashley. The trick is finding a Matched Set."

Ashley: "Please tell me you read that off a greeting card"

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 19 février 2010 - 10:14 .

[Gaudion]

Jacob is a genuine, well-adjusted guy... He may not be the most dynamic of party members, but it's nice to have some stability mixed in to balance all the crazy.



Kaiden... I just don't get. He's got all the personality of a dead moose with his only "hook" being that he went to biotic school. Like... every... other... biotic.

[Doug84]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

I think what it really comes down to is that Kaidan and Jacob carry very little baggage with them. And in fiction, the more baggage the better. Were these people real, Kaidan and Jacob are two great guys who I would love to be friends with while shaking in fear near any of the other squadmates. But in a story, give me the mental cases.

Shepard: "We all carry baggage Ashley. The trick is finding a Matched Set."

Ashley: "Please tell me you read that off a greeting card"

Hehe, I liked that one myself.

[Dishwasher64]

DaeJi wrote...

I think what it really comes down to is that Kaidan and Jacob carry very little baggage with them. And in fiction, the more baggage the better. Were these people real, Kaidan and Jacob are two great guys who I would love to be friends with while shaking in fear near any of the other squadmates. But in a story, give me the mental cases.

Probably true to most people, but I tend to like and respect the characters who sort of have their sh*t together, know what they stand for (as long as that's not something like Ash's "I hate aliens") and are level-headed. A part of me really hates that not having been traumatized or not having a severe personality disorder is a "weakness." So I made my Shepard a Spacer and War Hero, since that seemed to be the past with the least baggage. It seems obvious to me that that's the person you'd want on a mission to save the galaxy and on his team. Having a troubled past is not an advantage, and to me doesn't always make a character more interesting. Not singling out ME2, but I get tired of writers thinking every character needs to have done something terrible or had an emotionally crushing experience.

So I liked Jacob. He was a good guy, and he was competent. And he had the same stance as me on Cerberus for much of the game. Obviously, there's a story behind why he left the Alliance for Cerberus, which he tells you, but he doesn't make a big deal out of it. He's straight up with you (at least, he was with me, since I was nice to him) and generally comes to reasonable conclusions. He knows what his goal is, and the only loose end comes up when he unexpectedly receives a message about his father's ship. Not his fault.

Me, I needed a guy like this on my ship.

Edit: Kaidan, on the other hand... it didn't have much to do with him not being interesting, although he wasn't, really, but I just didn't like him. He didn't seem to believe in anything, although amittedly he was a soldier. Still, I could do without either of them on my team in ME3. Although I'd miss Jacob a little, since he's the human squadmate I liked the most.

Modifié par Dishwasher64, 19 février 2010 - 10:44 .

[yoshibb]

I adored Kaidan. I'd never played a bioware game before so I had no idea about romance or any of that stuff when I played Mass Effect. I actually thought he was gonna die in the first mission after Jenkins since I figured this was just another one person wrecking crew game where side players don't really matter. But then Shepard saved him from the beacon and he was there when she woke up. He apologized and gave this shy smile after I said it wasn't his fault, and I got all "aww." At the risk of getting too mushy and gooey, it just went up from there. My all time favorite character from Bioware outside of Alistair.



But Jacob, I was really disappointed. I was planning to romance him on a single Shep, but I talked to him and it was just blah. I don't feel any chemistry there. If they did anything it just wouldn't seem all that serious to me. Outside that, he had a bad dad that he randomly brought up at one point and I just saw him as kind of a pointless character. First male lead character from bioware that I really didn't enjoy.



However, I don't hate any of my crewmates. Anyone whose willing to go on a suicide mission with me or commit possible treason to save the galaxy will always be on my good side. So I love them all, I just love certain ones more than others.

[Biotic_Warlock]

How is kaiden boring, he gives my male sheps the wink...

[Operation Genesis]

Doug84 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

I think what it really comes down to is that Kaidan and Jacob carry very little baggage with them. And in fiction, the more baggage the better. Were these people real, Kaidan and Jacob are two great guys who I would love to be friends with while shaking in fear near any of the other squadmates. But in a story, give me the mental cases.

Shepard: "We all carry baggage Ashley. The trick is finding a Matched Set."

Ashley: "Please tell me you read that off a greeting card"

Hehe, I liked that one myself.

Wait, he actually says that?  Christ, no wonder Samara shot him down.

[AntWrig]

TerribleTruth wrote...

They should have made Jacob more like the Cole Train.

LOOKIT ALL DAT JUICE

Oh, you mean ignorant? 'Cole Train' and other characters like him are the digital form of coonery.

[Deztyn]

cpolisch wrote...

EbolaLola wrote...


Yes, agreed 100%. I found myself avoiding Jacob altogether just so I wouldn't have to deal with the "I'm more interested in just talking for a bit ;)". We did still wind up  at "S'ALL GOOD LET'S SPILL DRINKS TOGETHER AND SUCH" but..yeah, like you said, it was because I had to cut short much of the dialogue.
And Thane...nothing was more surprising than getting the option to say "I want you, Thane" in the middle of what was otherwise a very pleasant and friendly conversation. I just wanted to hear what the guy had to say, he's a very interesting character and I wanted to be his confidant, not his lover. I actually thought the nickname was cute in a platonic way as much as it was in a romantic way, but I still felt like I was inadvertantly building something up just by consistently picking the top choice.

There really needs to be separate paragon responses: one platonic, one romantic.

Wow.  So I wasn't the only one who stared at that option.  I seriously just kinda gawked at the screen for a good minute and a half thinking, this guy is telling a story about his wife and they're giving me this option to say I want you?  NOW?  Now is the appropriate time for this.  It just made no sense... just, the romances in ME2 were either way over the top, or way thrown in your face. 

The romances seemed thrown together, Garrus' just ended up awkward, Thane's made no sense or either Shepard is apparently a total **** who thinks the appropriate time to come on to someone is when they are discussing their dead wife... and oddly enough, if you do choose it, Thane's okay with it.

I really don't get the issue people have with Thane's dialogue options. Yes, the tag on the conversation wheel says "I want you, Thane" The actual conversation doesn't say that at all. The romance doesn't really progress until the next conversation.  I liked that there was no ambiguousness as to whether you're picking an option to romance a
character. In the first game it was entirely too easy to accidentally fall into the romance track even if you did read all the options and choose carefully. (Damn it Liara, I was just being nice, leave me alone or I swear next playthrough you're not getting picked up until after Virmire!)



If you are a top right button masher yeah, it can be jarring, but if you actually read the options and listen to what your character says if you choose the middle option, I don't see how paragon players can be disappointed, it's not as if the options are "I want you, Thane" or "Go to hell, Lizardman"

Thane says, "I haven't spoken about my wife in-- I don't think I ever have. I didn't have anyone left to tell it too." and this is after he's told you you're his first friend in ten years.

Shepard can respond and say:

"Maybe I haven't been as up-front as I should be. I'm here for you Thane. Whatever you need." (The I want you option) Suggestive, but not horribly so, especially the way Hale delivers the line in her best paragon voice. And if you already had the "Just friends?" exchange at the end of the last conversation than it's not exactly coming out of left field.

Thane, "You are very kind."

OR

"You're talking to your son again that's huge. Don't lose sight of that by dwelling on should have beens." (The Just focus on your son" option) Which is basically a paragon line, just not in the traditional paragon position on the conversation wheel.

Thane, "You are correct of course."

Either way he'll call you Siha, but only one lets you progress the romance.

So... uh, yeah about that Kaidan, I adored him for being a level headed rational space marine, who shared my views on humanities entitlement complex.

I have no opinion on Jacob, perhaps if my Shepard would just stop flirting with him I'd be able to talk to him enough to care about him one way or another.

Modifié par Deztyn, 20 février 2010 - 12:14 .

[royceclemens]

I don't have any Jacob problems. I can even defend the intent of the dialogue if not the actual dialogue (the person who wrote his romance should be locked in a small room with a stack of Elmore Leonard novels and shouldn't be let out until they figure out what flirty people sound like). Two confident people who are into each other are much harder to write than one confident person and one damaged person. Points for trying, though.



As for Kaidan? I think they stepped on a mine with Carth and tried to reel back in the opposite direction. Kaidan is a very clipped and formal dude. Little bit of a puzzle, which makes him a refreshing change of pace from the run of the mill pirate or goofball male love interest. I like him.

[Cutlass Jack]

Operation Genesis wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Shepard: "We all carry baggage Ashley. The trick is finding a Matched Set."

Ashley: "Please tell me you read that off a greeting card"

Hehe, I liked that one myself.

Wait, he actually says that?  Christ, no wonder Samara shot him down.

Yup that's really from ME1. The greeting card lines is actually a running bit when you go down the paragon route with her.

[TerribleTruth]

AntWrig wrote...

TerribleTruth wrote...

They should have made Jacob more like the Cole Train.

LOOKIT ALL DAT JUICE

Oh, you mean ignorant? 'Cole Train' and other characters like him are the digital form of coonery.

No, I mean hilarious and awesome.

[Sister Helen]

I played through ME1 and ME2 as "paragon femshep." Full disclosure here: I "conversation mine." I like to read/hear as many dialogue options as I can, so I constantly replay the same scenes and pick different choices to see where the conversations can head.

In ME1, I went the Kaidan-love interest route. Yes, I persevered through those many awkward conversations at his video monitor where he would turn, look horrified, and wipe his profusely sweating brow with the back of his wrist. By the end of the game, I half suspected that I was accidentally catching him eyeing a live porn feed or something...And why the heck was the Normandy's air conditioning not working in that section of the ship?

So I say with all candor that I kept HOPING for some shining moment, some end payoff that would make all those awkward moments worth working through, where Kaidan in ME1 would come through for me and declare something more, well, assertive than "Well, it's been a while since I felt that way," "I was hoping the shoreleave would be shared," and "You certainly are something, Commander." Zilch.

(Just a hint to you boys out there: It's always a bad sign if the girl is fully dressed and leaning against her dresser with her arms folded when you wake up after doing the nasty an hour or so earlier. And if she cuts you off mid-sentence with, "You're sweet, [INSERT NAME HERE]," don't expect your phone to ring for a booty call any time soon. God Bless Joker and his interruptions!)

Anyway, when I saw Kaidan again in Horizon in ME2, I had the wierd reaction of "Wow! He's alive and not kidnapped by paralyzing aliens!" and was genuinely surprised and happy (!) to see him. He said nice things about me, big hug, good feelings all around... and blows it by chewing me out for not calling him in the two years that I was in a coma. (Hell, my background was spacer, and I hadn't even called my MOM yet!) Oh, and a casual "thank you for saving my life and preventing my being dissolved into goo" would not have gone amiss.

But as annoyed as I was with the chew-out, I thought, well, at least he's gotten assertive, even though it took the space of two games and wasn't in the way I had hoped it would be. Good for you, Kaidan. Nice that you showed some growth in the two years I've been in a coma.

Then Kaidan blows the reluctant respect I was developing for him with the waffle-y letter he sends. Sheesh. Chew out coma girl for complicating your life and potentially ruining your plans for drinks with a doctor, ending the letter with MAYBE the possibility of maybe your feelings still being engaged.

The ME2 writers certainly made it easy to commit to a new love interest without any guilt --> Garrus and Thane looked pretty damn good after all that, and with the bonus of no pregnancy worries. (I didn't bother with the Jacob relationship at all. The femshep dialogue choices just made me feel like a sexual predator, abusing my rank to prey on subordinants. Ick. So not going there.)

Modifié par Sister Helen, 20 février 2010 - 03:00 .

[Jzadek72]

I somewhat disagree. I find Jacob boring, but I do hate Kaidan - he was badly acted, bland, and a bit of a Zac Efron kind of person. He was not a good character, and this is not because he is not alien - Ashley was the best character in Mass Effect 1.

[Bananagirl]

As others have said, the flirty Jacob dialogue was off-putting, so I just stopped talking to him. I still hope he's back in ME3 with better lines.



As for Kaidan, I guess he's just for women. He's naturally hesitant about going into a romantic relationship with his commanding officer, and he's just sweet. I think the meeting on Horizon was very well-written. He had a right to be angry, he suddenly sees someone he thought was dead for two years (causing him great agony) and realises they've joined up with the group whose research bases they had quite a lot of fun blowing up. I thought the email afterwards showed his need to set things straight after thinking out the situation. He better be in ME3.



Yes, Carth's paranoia was pretty annoying, but it is just so much fun to tease him every time you talk to him. Soooo much fun.

[TruYuri]

WHOO, NECROMANCY.

Modifié par TruYuri, 29 août 2010 - 09:24 .

[upsettingshorts]

I was actually thinking about doing a FemShep "canon" game along with my ManShep one.



Explanation: That's kind of how I play the game, I replay it multiple times with the same character, tweaking the results constantly to get a complete narrative I want. So My ManShep has always looked the same, always cheated his Paragon/Renegade abilities to give total freedom in decisionmaking, and will have *one* save to import to ME3.



So when I was thinking about what to do with FemShep's romances, I was really leaning towards never having her do a romance at all. Like, ever, in ME1 or ME2. The options are just kinda... meh.

[Zan51]

Some great comments from the Kaidan likers that I really agree with. Kaidan was sweet and cute, and also male enough too, just the kind of person I wanted in those circumstances. I found he had his own opinions, he wasn't a pushover. His dialogue seemd thoughtful, as if he was taking all the circumstances into consideration - her being his superior officer, etc. And I loved the couple of clinches you get but Joker interrupts tham - SO like real life!

Agree with the OP who said Kaidan waking up to her dressed and sitting on the edge of her dresser watching him was bad... but then had it been a Male Shep it would prolly have worked, I think..I mean a male Shep with a female LI. I was annoyed at the ending of that scene though, I would have liked a better written one, it was too abrupt on Kaidan's dialogue part etc.. Hell, he shouts! I wanted a last hug before I went out to Save The Galaxy!

Jacob. Urgh. Who says he has no baggage? Anyone not affected by his Dad having a harem and living it up for 10 years HAS to have baggage! If they don't admit to it, they are lying! Hell, has HE the same potential to do that as his Dad?? I'd be seriously worried if I had romaced him.
No, I did not like Jacob. He was too... sleazy, for want of a better word. Brown noser half the time, angry man the other half, like with Thane. There was NO excuse for his reactions to Thane or Tali, he knows HIS Boss told me to recruit them!
To me he always felt like he was playing a part, that his personality was not genuine at all. He was being the Poster Boy for Ex Alliance, now doubting Cerberus Operatives - showing me how I could be... Yeah, riiight. I'll make my own mind up, thank you Mr Poster Boy. He was just so.. convenient... so like a Plant, a double agent, more on Cerberus' side than he was letting on. Someone chosen with the hope he would attract me to make me be more "comfortable" and stay with Cerberus... Blame some of the end of mission statements from TIM for that opinion! I basically never took him anywhere I didn't have to, and avoided talking to him too.

Ashley. Was happy to let her die at Virmire. I don't even like upping her weapons and armor in the game to keep her alive longer... waste of resources since I wanted her gone. And I never took her anywhere, ever, with me. I got fed up of her constant whining "I wish you had got there sooner.." Reality Check! We were only 2 people. What on earth could we have done that her squad of far more folk couldn't do against overwhelming numbers of Geth, apart from die too? Nope, I hated Ashley.

[PWENER]

Been waiting a long time to use this...

[img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:UidGtt_qi3FBCM:http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/102/threadnecromancyns1nf0.jpg&t=1[/img]

[Chuvvy]

Oh no, I hate Kaidan. Even more so because I can't express my contempt for him. I saved his ass on Vermire. Should have let them both die.

Modifié par Slidell505, 29 août 2010 - 10:15 .