171 réponses à ce sujet

[Mordigan]

Pannamaslo wrote...

So female
soldiers can't be pretty? Not nice. Not nice. You have clealry a
stereotype of a marine commander. Can't blame you for that everyone has some, but it is just
not fair for women in military. Just like female programmers - pretty
or attractive =/= computer geek. I

Shepard isn't just an ordinary soldier though.  He (or she) is an Elite Special Forces Marine, which is different..

I guess it's hard for me to picture a woman in this role because there aren't any real life examples for me to fall back on.

As for a topic. I play as a
female. VA is better IMO and it is natural for me as I am a female.

And this is perfectly fine.  It's natural for a female to prefer playing as a female rather than a male, and as such, Bioware didn't make a mistake by making Shepard both male and female.

Generally it is more realistic for you to play manShep because men are stronger, more incline to military duty etc. etc. Ok. Nothing worng with that, personal taste. But as someone already ( very wisely) stated it is also about personality and leadreship skills. Men and women can be equally good leaders. Being a commander or military leader is not about "Look how much I can carry. Look at this muscles!".

I'd have to disagree with you about this.  The sort of leadership qualities and personality needed to command elite Military units or armies is much more aligned to men than women, because men are naturally geared towards dominance and aggression (much higher testosterone levels)...  Thats not to say that women can't be dominant or aggressive, just that men typically exhibit these qualities moreso than women, especially in the company of other like minded men.

Thats how Military leaders like Julius Caesar, Napoleon Bonaparte, Adolf Hitler etc commanded such loyalty and respect from their men..  Not only were they themselves exceptional leaders and highly charismatic, but they also appealed to the dominant nature in man.

Follow me and we will conquer the World together!  

Men are forever trying to dominate each other.  History itself stands as the ultimate testament to this truth..

Also, Shepard isn't just a leader either.  He himself is an elite Special Forces Marine, so it's not as though he's some general back at HQ calling the shots from a comfortable chair..

someones comment about exclude femShep, because it is ruining play for a menShep is so stupid, that I won't even bother to wrote something more except: *facepalm*

I have to agree.. 

Modifié par Mordigan, 21 février 2010 - 09:20 .

[Blackveldt]

.

Modifié par Blackveldt, 21 février 2010 - 09:24 .

[Pannamaslo]

Mordigan wrote...

Pannamaslo wrote...

So female
soldiers can't be pretty? Not nice. Not nice. You have clealry a
stereotype of a marine commander. Can't blame you for that everyone has some, but it is just
not fair for women in military. Just like female programmers - pretty
or attractive =/= computer geek. I

Shepard isn't just an ordinary soldier though.  He (or she) is an Elite Special Forces Marine, which is different..

I guess it's hard for me to picture a woman in this role because there aren't any real life examples for me to fall back on.

As for a topic. I play as a
female. VA is better IMO and it is natural for me as I am a female.

And this is perfectly fine.  It's natural for a female to prefer playing as a female rather than a male, and as such, Bioware didn't make a mistake by making Shepard both male and female.

Generally it is more realistic for you to play manShep because men are stronger, more incline to military duty etc. etc. Ok. Nothing worng with that, personal taste. But as someone already ( very wisely) stated it is also about personality and leadreship skills. Men and women can be equally good leaders. Being a commander or military leader is not about "Look how much I can carry. Look at this muscles!".

I'd have to disagree with you about this.  The sort of leadership qualities and personality needed to command elite Military units or armies is much more aligned to men than women, because men are naturally geared towards dominance and aggression (much higher testosterone levels)...  Thats not to say that women can't be dominant or aggressive, just that men typically exhibit these qualities moreso than women, especially in the company of other like minded men.

Thats how Military leaders like Julius Caesar, Napoleon Bonaparte, Adolf Hitler etc commanded such loyalty and respect from their men..  Not only were they themselves exceptional leaders and highly charismatic, but they also appealed to the dominant nature in man.

Follow me and we will conquer the World together!  

Men are forever trying to dominate each other.  History itself stands as the ultimate testament to this truth..

Also, Shepard isn't just a leader either.  He himself is an elite Special Forces Marine, so it's not as though he's some general back at HQ calling the shots from a comfortable chair..

someones comment about exclude femShep, because it is ruining play for a menShep is so stupid, that I won't even bother to wrote something more except: *facepalm*

I have to agree.. 

I agree that men have more testosterone, it's a bilogical fact, but I believe you put too much meaning to this. As a psychologist I met all sort of people: agressive, autocratic dominant women and men who want to be dominated. And those "passive" men had more testosterone than dominant females. Situations like  that tought me that you can't  overinterpet biology or give too much credit to it. Social enviroment and culture have equally powerful influance. And females and males are not so different if you takelokk into personality. Temperament - maybe (anxiety is higher in avarge women), but not personality as a whole. So I think it is mostly culture that makes men  leaders, not a biology per se. 

Also history is not a big argument here, since only for 100 years women can actually make political decisions. Dose that mean they shouldn't becasue historically they were believed to be inferior to men? Again culture not biology.

Even if femShep finished SpecOps training  with a special treament as a female, does that mean she is a bad leader?I don't know you believe why her being a space marine is a setback?

I won't argue that women can carry more or take more beating, this not a case. I am merely stating that femShep has as much merit as menShep.  Becasue he/she is an individual, so you can't apply avarge joe or jane.

Modifié par Pannamaslo, 21 février 2010 - 09:53 .

[Serevir]

Shepard's physical strength has little to do with his quest

[sinosleep]

Serevir wrote...

Shepard's physical strength has little to do with his quest

If you are looking at it strictly in game maybe (and even then, Shep one punches plenty of different races/people) but it can cause issues with Shep's background. The only way it doesn't is if you can accept that in this future men and women serve equally on special ops teams. Some people can do that, and some can't. Those that can't are basing things on the here and now, where women have no place in any infantry units whatsoever, let alone spec ops units. And one of the reasons for that IS based on strength. 

[Fuzrum77]

I've played as both in both games. And while I understand the love for Jennifer Hale in ME 1, I just don't see it in ME 2. No offense to her at all, but it sounds like she phoned this one in. Mark Meer blows her out of the water in ME 2. Case in point: Tali's trial. It's like black and white. Jennifer is about as one-tone as you can get. Mark is oozing emotion in his speech. And this is pretty much how it goes throughout the game. Jennifer Hale sounds pissed off all the time to me.

[Teecat]

I prefer femshep, but I just have one problem with her - while I realize that she's a tough warrior-leader person and so and couldn't care a damn about being ladylike - it still bothers me occasionally how masculine she acts (e.g. sloutching whilst talking to garrus o_0). I don't expect/want her to sit there prettily or legs neatly crossed but - but .... posture for goodness sake!

[Serevir]

considering the scope of the conflicts mankind has been engaged in it probably wouldn't take long for them to be like "You know what maybe this whole raising an eyebrow at women and flat out turning people away for having tattoos or being homosexual is a bit silly considering there are now ENTIRE SYSTEMS of potential threats."

[Mordigan]

Pannamaslo wrote...

I agree that men have more testosterone, it's a bilogical fact, but I believe you put too much meaning to this. As a psychologist I met all sort of people: agressive, autocratic dominant women and men who want to be dominated. And those "passive" men had more testosterone than dominant females. Situations like  that tought me that you can't  overinterpet biology or give too much credit to it. Social enviroment and culture have equally powerful influance. And females and males are not so different if you takelokk into personality. Temperament - maybe (anxiety is higher in avarge women), but not personality as a whole. So I think it is mostly culture that makes men  leaders, not a biology per se.

While it's true that having high testosterone levels doesn't automatically equal being aggressive or dominant (a lot of men like to be sexually dominated by women for instance), there is an undoubted strong correlation between testosterone levels and aggression/dominance in humans.

I definitely agree though that socio-cultural and environmental factors often play a massive role as well.

For example, simply handling guns causes mens' testosterone levels to increase and for their behaviour to become more aggressive..

I also remember reading a study that mens' testosterone levels decrease when they become fathers..

Also history is not a big argument here, since only for 100 years women can actually make political decisions. Dose that mean they shouldn't becasue historically they were believed to be inferior to men? Again culture not biology.

True, but this begs the question of why there was practically universal subjugation of women in human cultures Worldwide throughout History?

Can that be explained from a purely cultural perspective, since all cultures are not the same?   I think not.   Biology has something to do with it as well..

Even if femShep finished SpecOps training  with a special treament as a female, does that mean she is a bad leader?I don't know you believe why her being a space marine is a setback?

Not a set back.  I was just saying that there's a difference between being a leader, and being a leader of an elite fighting force..

For example, many people think Obama is a good leader...  Does this mean that Obama could lead a Delta Force unit though?

Of course not, because while he does have leadership qualities, those qualities don't necessarily translate into leading soldiers..

I won't argue that women can carry more or take more beating, this not a case. I am merely stating that femShep has as much merit as menShep.  Becasue he/she is an individual, so you can't apply avarge joe or jane

Well as I said before, I support the inclusion of FemShep in the ME Universe and I understand that many people would prefer Shepard to be female..

But, for me Shepard is always going to be male.  My number one reason for this is because I can't imagine a woman in this role, due to the fact that there are no real life examples..

[LittleDeadGirl]

I have to say for me it's FemShep all the way. As a female gamer I think the guys here just don't get it how annoying it is for us. Most of the time I'm used to playing a guy just so I can play a great game (Witcher for example) because I'm never given a great female option. ME2 is game of the year for me for the reason I was given an awesome female option, awesome voice, awesome story, awesome everything. The story is the great part of this game. Remove female shep just to give male shep more options? Yeah I'm glad those of you that feel that way aren't running Bioware. Sorry guys you only get 99% of video games and we get 1%. Let me play the world's smallest ****ing violin. Also what does physical strengh have to do with being a soldier in this game? Most of the time you use biotics, use your brain, or shoot a gun.



However, I have to say I've been convinced to make a male shep and give the voice another try. It's soooo monotone though. But I'll try to play a few hours and see if I can get used to it.

[sinosleep]

Just because it's not displayed in game (which it actually kind of is with the 2 turians she one shots and the korgan she head butts) doesn't mean it's not a factor. It doesn't take strength to shoot a gun, it does take strength to lug around a machine gun the size of your torso or a grenade launcher. Not only that but it factors heavily into Shepard's back story. In this day and age a big part of the reason women aren't allowed into infantry units has to do with the strength required to 1.) lug around 50 pound + ruck sacks, 20 pound body armor, a full combat load of ammunition, and depending on what weapon you are carrying (m249 or m240) heavy weapons. and 2.) to haul your friend if he gets wounded. Having been in the military, I don't personally know as single woman who could have worn all that gear, and then carried my 180 pound body while I was also wearing all that gear. Shepard's back story is that of an alliance marine. I would assume an alliance marine would still be required to perform basic tasks like being able to carrying a wounded soldier to safety.

And before people start, I'm not one of the guys advocating there shouldn't be a femshep option, hell as you can see my last DA: O character was female and my first ME 2 import was a female. I just don't think it's as believable as a male.

Modifié par sinosleep, 22 février 2010 - 03:13 .

[mopotter]

There have always been women who fight in wars. Maybe not many, but all I need is one. In the American Revolution and Civil War they had to pretend to be men, but they fought and died for what they believed in. WWII had women like Violette Szabo (used a Sten until she ran out of ammo) And just google Women Hunters to see that women shoot, hunt and can kill just like the boys, and some of them are quite attractive, so my husband says. .



I have no problem playing Fem Sheo, knowing that she did all of the things her back story says she did. Men are stronger, but my Fem Shep doesn't have to fist fight she is a good shot, sometimes has biotic skills and keeps Garrus and Grunt around for the hand to hand stuff.



Someone mentioned makeup. My fem Shep had permanent eyeliner and eyeshadow applied during her wayward youth and laser hair removal (legs, underarms, eyebrowns shaped)



And, yes BioWare has Mr. Shepard on their cover, but I have the game guide and it is filled with Ms. Shepard on every page. Go BioWare.



It's a greast game and I have one Alex Shepard, but the majority of my Shepard's are Hanna, Kate, Karra and Ivy. Love it.

[Blackveldt]

sinosleep wrote...

Just because it's not displayed in game (which it actually kind of is with the 2 turians she one shots and the korgan she head butts) doesn't mean it's not a factor. It doesn't take strength to shoot a gun, it does take strength to lug around a machine gun the size of your torso or a grenade launcher. Not only that but it factors heavily into Shepard's back story. In this day and age a big part of the reason women aren't allowed into infantry units has to do with the strength required to 1.) lug around 50 pound + ruck sacks, 20 pound body armor, a full combat load of ammunition, and depending on what weapon you are carrying (m249 or m240) heavy weapons. and 2.) to haul your friend if he gets wounded. Having been in the military, I don't personally know as single woman who could have worn all that gear, and then carried my 180 pound body while I was also wearing all that gear. Shepard's back story is that of an alliance marine. I would assume an alliance marine would still be required to perform basic tasks like being able to carrying a wounded soldier to safety.

And before people start, I'm not one of the guys advocating there shouldn't be a femshep option, hell as you can see my last DA: O character was female and my first ME 2 import was a female. I just don't think it's as believable as a male.

Am I the only one getting sick of seeing these arguments?  Nobody seems to be able to comprehend the phenomenon of SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF.

In this day and age...

The whole damned point of Mass Effect is that it's NOT in this day and age!  It's not our technology, world or even universe.  Why is this so hard for people to wrap their heads around?

In THIS day and age, our weapons are heavy, our equipment can be heavy, but who knows what technology we'll have in a century.  Consider how far we've come in the past decade alone.  Why on earth would our technology not advance?  I feel like a broken record, having already pointed this out in a previous post.  Is it so inconceivable that weapons and armor of the future are better made, lighter, and more efficient?  The tech armor alone in ME weighs...well...nothing!  Stop trying to force today's society and norms upon a futuristic, fictional universe.  Jeebs.

And even so, despite all of this, the Mass Effect universe has made clear of genetic manipulation.  If physical prowess is still a deciding factor for you, what is stopping humans--male or female--from improving themselves physically, intelligence-wise, etc?

But finally, even if people are STILL unable to comprehend this universe (which is funny because, for the most part, we apparently have an easier time believing in characters like Spiderman and the like than a female soldier), Mass Effect is ultimately about Shepard.  SHEPARD.  An individual.  And not an average one at that.  Say all females in the Mass Effect universe were incapable, etc.  Okay, fine.  But Fem Shep IS NOT.  That's how Shepard was written, period.  We don't need to try and understand or explain it; it just is.

As for real life examples (which again, is such a moot point when considering the ME universe), it merely says you're most likely a Sensing type as opposed to Intuitive.  Based in today's reality, etc, etc.  Which is FINE.  Some people need real life examples to imagine scenarios while others have a good enough imagination and foresight that it's unnecessary.  Regardless, this is still a vague point on your behalf (and I reaaally hate using anecdotal evidence here), but having grown up as a military brat, being surrounded by Colonels and Generals (we had our own neighborhoods on-base), I myself can think of several 'real-life' examples.  As my own father was a Colonel in the Air Force, I met plenty of 'commanding' women in all branches of the military, from Army soldier to Air Force Colonel.  I mean hell, my stupid yearly family reunions involves us visiting Oliver North every friggin Christmas.

*Sigh*  But really, I don't know why people can't treat ME as simply a work of fiction if they have such a hard time with it.  I mean...that's what it is--a work of friggin fiction.  Set in the distant future.  With travel through big tweezer-looking things called mass effect relays, ginormous non-organic-organic squids (that control your brain!) and blueish/purple mono-sexed aliens.

[AoiDreamer]

Femshep! Obvious reasons, yay!

[StaR_JeS]

Women in Special Forces? 'K. Go google the name "Hannah Senesh." Go. Do. It. Now. She was basically the equivalent of our Special Forces during World War II, tasked with entering ****-occupied Hungary to extract Jews. Not only did she know how to jump out of planes, but she was a damned good shot and an inspirational leader. She was captured, tried for her activities, and eventually executed, but if you read her biography, every person who came into contact with her, from her family, to her fellow squadmates, to her very own **** captors recognized how brave and well-spoken she was.
I like to think of her as a basis for my paragon FemSheps in her leadership capabilities.

I hate to add to the flaming or whatever, but being a good leader has nothing to do with having physical prowess. It's the ability to inspire, to lead, to earn trust that makes one a good leader. If male Shepard was such a physically strong badass, then why does he need a krogan and turian around? Undoubtedly, both are much stronger than Shepard.

I'm basically regurgitating what others have said, but seriously, people. This bull**** is exactly that: bull****.

Oh yeaaaaa, and let me throw in there that my aunt retired as a Lieutenant Commander from the Navy a few years ago, and I met a female Admiral when I visited her in D.C. one time.

Edit: Ooookkk. The forums censor N a z i.

Modifié par StaR_JeS, 22 février 2010 - 07:42 .

[Shadow Wolf783]

Women in the Canadian Armed Forces are allowed to serve in all forward combat units including our special forces and anti terrorist units. The argument that women are inferior to men in military service because of physical ability is outdated and was never correct in the first place. Women have proven them selves on battlefields all over the world from WW2 to Afghanistan and Iraq where women have died serving their nation in combat. Oh and here is a lesson for all those who think women should not serve in the forces because of biology. Women can take more G forces than a man, are naturally better shots than men, and can handle stress better than men.



I know this because I proudly served with plenty of Women when I was in the Canadian Forces (Infantry).



That is all I am going to say



P.S If Sheppard is an NPC it would be male simply because of all the advertising that Bioware did for the game has highlighted male shep.

[sinosleep]

@Blackveldt, what is so hard for you to understand about the fact that some people have different breaking points for their suspension of disbelief than others? I mean, for all the genetic modification you mentioned, did it ever occur to you that if you apply the same upgrades to a better base it's still better? If you put twin turbos on a 4 banger and twin turbos on an 8 cylinder guess which one is going to pump out more horse power?

p.s. For every real world example of a good female military figure I can name 20 males. Even in countries where they are accepted truly great female military leaders are few and far between. Rank in and of itself doesn't really apply to what we are talking about with femshep. I met plenty of female captains, majors, colonels, etc in my time in the army, guess how many of them led spec ops missions though. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 22 février 2010 - 08:22 .

[Mordigan]

Blackveldt wrote...

The whole damned point of Mass Effect is that it's NOT in this day and age!  It's not our technology, world or even universe.  Why is this so hard for people to wrap their heads around?

But it is.  Mass Effect more than most Sci-Fi oriented games burrows heavily from the real World for inspiration..

In THIS day and age, our weapons are heavy, our equipment can be heavy, but who knows what technology we'll have in a century.  Consider how far we've come in the past decade alone.  Why on earth would our technology not advance?  I feel like a broken record, having already pointed this out in a previous post.  Is it so inconceivable that weapons and armor of the future are better made, lighter, and more efficient?  The tech armor alone in ME weighs...well...nothing!  Stop trying to force today's society and norms upon a futuristic, fictional universe.  Jeebs.

What makes you think weapons, armor and equipment would be lighter?

The average load for infantry soldiers has barely changed since the Roman days...in fact, it's gotten heavier..

If anything, the weapons, armor and equipment in Mass Effect would be heavier than their contemporary counterparts, because they are much more powerful..

Anyway, thats a minor arguement if you ask me..

And even so, despite all of this, the Mass Effect universe has made clear of genetic manipulation.  If physical prowess is still a deciding factor for you, what is stopping humans--male or female--from improving themselves physically, intelligence-wise, etc?

I went over genetic enhancement a few pages ago.. As described in the codex, genetic enhancement is not a magic wand that can turn ordinary human beings into super humans.

Shepard is nothing more than a very fit human being, and probably comparable to today's best athletes, or maybe slightly better..

*Sigh*  But really, I don't know why people can't treat ME as simply a work of fiction if they have such a hard time with it.  I mean...that's what it is--a work of friggin fiction.  Set in the distant future.  With travel through big tweezer-looking things called mass effect relays, ginormous non-organic-organic squids (that control your brain!) and blueish/purple mono-sexed aliens.

As it's been mentioned, everyone has different tolerances when it comes to suspension of disbelief.

[Mordigan]

StaR_JeS wrote...

Women in Special Forces? 'K. Go google the name "Hannah Senesh." Go. Do. It. Now. She was basically the equivalent of our Special Forces during World War II, tasked with entering ****-occupied Hungary to extract Jews. Not only did she know how to jump out of planes, but she was a damned good shot and an inspirational leader. She was captured, tried for her activities, and eventually executed, but if you read her biography, every person who came into contact with her, from her family, to her fellow squadmates, to her very own **** captors recognized how brave and well-spoken she was.

Hannah Senesh, like Violette Szabo aren't comparable to today's Spec Ops.  Those women were more like spies, saboteurs and infiltrators, rather than Spec Ops units like Delta Force, Navy Seals etc.......which is what N7 is supposed to resemble.

I hate to add to the flaming or whatever, but being a good leader has nothing to do with having physical prowess. It's the ability to inspire, to lead, to earn trust that makes one a good leader. If male Shepard was such a physically strong badass, then why does he need a krogan and turian around? Undoubtedly, both are much stronger than Shepard.

Much of the time, your leadership ability depends heavily on your ability to do the job.  Would Shepard command such respect if he wasn't extremely good at what he did?

And to be the best, requires abilities beyond that of the average human..

The presence of FemShep makes this more difficult to swallow however, because it contradicts what we see in the real World regarding men and womens' roles when it comes to the Military..

Saying FemShep is the best soldier humanity has to offer, is akin to saying that Annika Sorensen is the best golfer in the World.....  She may be the best female golfer, but she isn't the best golfer..

[Stakis]

canon shepard is a male, if ME ever becomes a movie he will be played by a male, its like revan in kotor, people sistematicaly in this forums like to think their choice matters above the original bioware plan, its a great thing bioware gives that option for us to twink the character or change their genders but its a cosmetic thing.

just look how strong the female chars are in this game compared to the wimps garrus, jacob and kaidan are, it clearly shows the focus on male story.

and btw i have nothing agaisnt female characters, im just looking at the obvious.

Modifié par Stakis, 22 février 2010 - 08:49 .

[Mordigan]

Shadow Wolf783 wrote...

Women in the Canadian Armed Forces are allowed to serve in all forward combat units including our special forces and anti terrorist units.

The Canadian Armed Forces is more like a peace keeping force than an actual Military.

The argument that women are inferior to men in military service because of physical ability is outdated and was never correct in the first place.

First of all, the arguement that women are "inferior" to men has nothing to do with what we're debating, so get that word out of your head..

Also, many modern Militaries including the U.S, Israel and the U.K have done many tests on female ability in combat, and the result has always been that women cannot measure up to men in that respect....which is why these countries do not allow women to serve in dedicated combat units..

They may serve in support units however, but thats not the same thing..
 

Women can take more G forces than a man, are naturally better shots than men, and can handle stress better than men.

None of this is true to my knowledge..  If you have any evidence of these claims, then I suggest you show them to us.

[Pannamaslo]

Mordigan wrote...

Pannamaslo wrote...

I agree that men have more testosterone, it's a bilogical fact, but I believe you put too much meaning to this. As a psychologist I met all sort of people: agressive, autocratic dominant women and men who want to be dominated. And those "passive" men had more testosterone than dominant females. Situations like  that tought me that you can't  overinterpet biology or give too much credit to it. Social enviroment and culture have equally powerful influance. And females and males are not so different if you takelokk into personality. Temperament - maybe (anxiety is higher in avarge women), but not personality as a whole. So I think it is mostly culture that makes men  leaders, not a biology per se.

While it's true that having high testosterone levels doesn't automatically equal being aggressive or dominant (a lot of men like to be sexually dominated by women for instance), there is an undoubted strong correlation between testosterone levels and aggression/dominance in humans.

I definitely agree though that socio-cultural and environmental factors often play a massive role as well.

For example, simply handling guns causes mens' testosterone levels to increase and for their behaviour to become more aggressive..

I also remember reading a study that mens' testosterone levels decrease when they become fathers..

Also history is not a big argument here, since only for 100 years women can actually make political decisions. Dose that mean they shouldn't becasue historically they were believed to be inferior to men? Again culture not biology.

True, but this begs the question of why there was practically universal subjugation of women in human cultures Worldwide throughout History?

Can that be explained from a purely cultural perspective, since all cultures are not the same?   I think not.   Biology has something to do with it as well..

Even if femShep finished SpecOps training  with a special treament as a female, does that mean she is a bad leader?I don't know you believe why her being a space marine is a setback?

Not a set back.  I was just saying that there's a difference between being a leader, and being a leader of an elite fighting force..

For example, many people think Obama is a good leader...  Does this mean that Obama could lead a Delta Force unit though?

Of course not, because while he does have leadership qualities, those qualities don't necessarily translate into leading soldiers..

I won't argue that women can carry more or take more beating, this not a case. I am merely stating that femShep has as much merit as menShep.  Becasue he/she is an individual, so you can't apply avarge joe or jane

Well as I said before, I support the inclusion of FemShep in the ME Universe and I understand that many people would prefer Shepard to be female..

But, for me Shepard is always going to be male.  My number one reason for this is because I can't imagine a woman in this role, due to the fact that there are no real life examples..

Agreesion and testosterone:

Corelation between agression and testosterone levels in humans is inconlcusive. It is visible in animals, but most recent studies on humans failed to produce correlation higher than r = 0,5, which means that testoterone is accounted for 25 % variability in human agression and dominance in males. ( One study from 1971 had like 0,7, but it is an outlier) Even more, meta-analysiswww.sciencedirect.com/science showed that mean corelation form all the studies is r=0, 14, which is consider a very low corealation.

www.neiu.edu/~lruecker/Archer.pdf - this reading is good for understanding, that problem with testosterone and agression is that these are correlational studies, which means that no causality can be established, whether it's situation that rises testosteron's levels or inherent levels leads to more agressive behavior.  Study you linked is a good example of that.

So, no there is no undoubted high corelation, between agression and hormones. Even in males.

As far as pancultural phenomenon of women being dominated by men, from evolutionary psychology perspective it began when  humanity started to be an agrarian society. But I won't dwell on this, becasue evolutionary perspective is more hypothesis than true scientific fact, so it's more case of believe.

The problem with biology-culture influance is as follows: culture influances biology and vice versa. That's why we speak about plasticity of a nervous system, it changes with enviroment and nervous system is closely linked to endocrine system.

Well as I said before, I support the inclusion of FemShep in the ME
Universe and I understand that many people would prefer Shepard to be
female..

But, for me Shepard is always going to be male.  My
number one reason for this is because I can't imagine a woman in this
role, due to the fact that there are no real life examples..

At least we agree on that 

And sorry for a high number of mistakes (just read my last post again), I am not a native speaker, so let's just pretend they are not there:whistle:

As I said, men on average tend to be more dominant and have higher hunger for power, which put them in the leading roles more often. But that does not mean, women can't lead or be the squad leaders.

Modifié par Pannamaslo, 22 février 2010 - 08:59 .

[sipaufade]

 both. but MY cannon shepard is me so my main cannon shep is a male vanguard

[Pannamaslo]

Mordigan wrote...



Also, many modern Militaries including the U.S, Israel and the U.K have done many tests on female ability in combat, and the result has always been that women cannot measure up to men in that respect....which is why these countries do not allow women to serve in dedicated combat units..

I heard that it was not due to their performance, but the influance it had on men. Men screwd up missions, because they wanted to protect women also it is unaccepted in our culture to let women suffer as a war prisoner . Do you have any material to support your statement? 

[Mordigan]

Pannamaslo wrote...

As far as pancultural phenomenon of women being dominated by men, from evolutionary psychology perspective it began when  humanity started to be an agrarian society. But I won't dwell on this, becasue evolutionary perspective is more hypothesis than true scientific fact, so it's more case of believe.

Hmm, you'd think that female subjugation would have started with hunter gatherer Societies, as they seem to be more aggressive..

The problem with biology-culture influance is as follows: culture influances biology and vice versa. That's why we speak about plasticity of a nervous system, it changes with enviroment and nervous system is closely linked to endocrine system.

Yeah, you're right on this.  Biology and environment work in concert with each other it seems, but as you yourself noted, men clearly possess more testosterone than women, and are generally more aggressive and dominant..

And sorry for a high number of mistakes (just read my last post again), I am not a native speaker, so let's just pretend they are not there:whistle:

Don't worry, your English is better than many English speakers