111 réponses à ce sujet

[xXDWARFAREXx]

ToshiStation38 wrote...

I always figured suffocating would hurt like hell.

I always felt the beginnings it more as extreme discomfort/instinctual panic rather than straight pain, such as it took to repeatedly lose the "hold your breath" contests at the pool...

[Lareit]

The Angry One wrote...

Lareit wrote...

You can't GASP for air if there isn't any. Just like you can't scream for help. If you can't breath you can't exhale. He had air, it was just escaping when his suit was breached. He would have run out of air, but the depressurization made oxygen a moot point.

You do gasp if there is LITTLE air left. That's what gasping is for, only there's little air left both in the lungs and in the suit.

Also, he was waking up groggy and disoriented, he wasn't gasping and flailing about.

Shep is the first time, gasping and vital signs going out of control, it's why they put Shep under again.

I have no idea how you think you can continue to argue this.
FACT #1. Shepard's suit was expelling oxygen. It wasn't expelling CO2 as he could not breath enough of that for it to vent at the pressure it was venting out. This is clearly visible during the scene where he's drifting into space.
FACT#2. When a human is exposed to the vacuum of space their body undergoes decompression. The first 7 seconds into the decompression the subject has full control of their motor functions and higher cognitive reasoning. After words as their blood begins to expand and boil away their higher reasoning decays untill they eventually pass out at the 30 second mark.

THE END!

No time to suffocate. Regardless if all the Oxygen in his suit sudden evaporated the instant the suit rupture.

[xXDWARFAREXx]

As for Mere vs Hale, I preferred Mere as he fit more with my vision of Shepard.



He's not a great big touchy-feely bag of emotions. He's a soldier, he's seen a lot of death, he's dealt a lot of death and it has, to an extent, desensitized him. The main emotion that's left is anger, outrage at what has been done to his people and his galaxy, which Mere does a very good job portraying in my opinion. Shepard's there to get a job done which being overly emotionally sensitive or instable may get in the way of, not to play psychotherapist (AKA Kelly Chambers).

[The Angry One]

For god's sake, have I ever said there was time to completely suffocate?

The point is Shep began to suffocate AND WAS AWARE OF IT. Also Shep's entire suit was not exposed to the vacuum of space, at least not immediately. The oxygen tanks/generators or their connections were breached.



Damage to the body due to exposure would've occured when the body drifted into the planet's upper atmosphere.

[xXDWARFAREXx]

Lareit wrote...
FACT#2. When a human is exposed to the vacuum of space their body undergoes decompression. The first 7 seconds into the decompression the subject has full control of their motor functions and higher cognitive reasoning. After words as their blood begins to expand and boil away their higher reasoning decays untill they eventually pass out at the 30 second mark.

Your fact #2 is a bit off as I understand it.  Your skin and arteries/veins/capillaries are a good enough container that your blood doesn't boil.  It's the sustained lack of oxygenated blood to the brain that drops the higher reasoning and passing out.

Modifié par xXDWARFAREXx, 20 février 2010 - 04:44 .

[Lareit]

The Angry One wrote...

For god's sake, have I ever said there was time to completely suffocate?
The point is Shep began to suffocate AND WAS AWARE OF IT. Also Shep's entire suit was not exposed to the vacuum of space, at least not immediately. The oxygen tanks/generators or their connections were breached.

Damage to the body due to exposure would've occured when the body drifted into the planet's upper atmosphere.

Then how is it traumatzing? Have you never had the wind knocked out of you? It's unpleasant but after the first time you get used to it.

Little kids get the wind knocked out of them all the time and they recover from it in under 5 mins. But shepard is supposed to suddenly became cold and hardened because of it?

Why would he becomed hardened over the loss of the normandy too?
He's a soldier.
The war hero origin, he lost his entire unit holding the line
in Ruthless he kills them
Survivor saw them all die and he was forced to undergo extream survival conditions

Earthborn grew up in the street gangs
Colonist saw his friends and family taken and killed
Spacer never had time to settle down anymore.

ANy combination of those origins is more traumatizing then what happened to him at the beginning of ME2.
If your shepard changed, thats fine, but expecting him to have changed as a neutral option is....unrealistic

[Lareit]

xXDWARFAREXx wrote...

Lareit wrote...
FACT#2. When a human is exposed to the vacuum of space their body undergoes decompression. The first 7 seconds into the decompression the subject has full control of their motor functions and higher cognitive reasoning. After words as their blood begins to expand and boil away their higher reasoning decays untill they eventually pass out at the 30 second mark.

Your fact #2 is a bit off as I understand it.  Your skin and arteries/veins/capillaries are a good enough container that your blood doesn't boil.  It's the sustained lack of oxygenated blood to the brain that drops the higher reasoning and passing out.

Actually, I recently researched this very topic when people discussed how silly it was that everyone was only wearing breathers when going inside the collector base. THe exposed ears, eyes would be enough to begin decompression in your lungs and blood stream. Eventually your muscle too.

You are right though, skin is perfectly adept at containing your body, all you really need is a
Helmet that fully contains your various holes.

Hence why Joker's mask in ME2's intro is suitable for protecting him from the vacuum.

Edit: Decided to read up again just to verify. I'm finding conflicting reports haha. Though consciousness lost at the 30 sec mark seems fairly constant. Long before sufficating.

Modifié par Lareit, 20 février 2010 - 04:52 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Lareit wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

For god's sake, have I ever said there was time to completely suffocate?
The point is Shep began to suffocate AND WAS AWARE OF IT. Also Shep's entire suit was not exposed to the vacuum of space, at least not immediately. The oxygen tanks/generators or their connections were breached.

Damage to the body due to exposure would've occured when the body drifted into the planet's upper atmosphere.

Then how is it traumatzing? Have you never had the wind knocked out of you? It's unpleasant but after the first time you get used to it.

Little kids get the wind knocked out of them all the time and they recover from it in under 5 mins. But shepard is supposed to suddenly became cold and hardened because of it?

Why would he becomed hardened over the loss of the normandy too?
He's a soldier.
The war hero origin, he lost his entire unit holding the line
in Ruthless he kills them
Survivor saw them all die and he was forced to undergo extream survival conditions

Earthborn grew up in the street gangs
Colonist saw his friends and family taken and killed
Spacer never had time to settle down anymore.

ANy combination of those origins is more traumatizing then what happened to him at the beginning of ME2.
If your shepard changed, thats fine, but expecting him to have changed as a neutral option is....unrealistic

Knowing you are about to die I assure you is Traumatizing. 

[xXDWARFAREXx]

Lareit wrote...

Then how is it traumatzing? Have you never had the wind knocked out of you? It's unpleasant but after the first time you get used to it.

You sure about that?  I find getting the wind knocked out of me pretty unpleasant just about every time. 

[Lareit]

xXDWARFAREXx wrote...

Lareit wrote...

Then how is it traumatzing? Have you never had the wind knocked out of you? It's unpleasant but after the first time you get used to it.

You sure about that?  I find getting the wind knocked out of me pretty unpleasant just about every time. 

Hah, semantics. It's only "OH GOD THIS IS SCARY" the first time

The rest of the time is "HOPE IT'S TEMPORARY"

[Goat_Shepard]

The Angry One wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...

Don't see many ME trailers featuring Jennifer Hale.

An oversight on BioWare's part.

Also can't argue against the fact that the majority of the developers are males that think like males,

Can't argue against the fact that the majority (if not all) of the developers are not space marines and probably haven't been in the military.

or that that John Shepard is modeled after Mark Vanderloo (real person), while Jane Shepard is modeled after the Custom Creation Screen (which would explain the lack of marketing with Jane). 

Mark Vanderloo is an effete ponce of a male model, whom they modelled on because they wanted a mascot and were lazy. Try again.

They modeled on MaleShep because they were lazy? Wouldn't the correct saying be "modeled on MaleShep DESPITE being lazy"? A true example of laziness would be what they did with FemShep, who I repeat DOES NOT HAVE A FACE. If they were "lazy" on John Shepard then Jane Shepard must be completely meaningless since they didn't bother. Harkin hitting on you and odd, unfulfilling romance options (compared to MaleShep) are what Jane gets. Sorry. Sux2bu.

I am glad that the female ME fans are happy with their VA. That means Bioware is great at delivery, even better at creating drama.

[The Angry One]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

They modeled on MaleShep because they were lazy? Wouldn't the correct saying be "modeled on MaleShep DESPITE being lazy"? A true example of laziness would be what they did with FemShep, who I repeat DOES NOT HAVE A FACE. If they were "lazy" on John Shepard then Jane Shepard must be completely meaningless since they didn't bother. Harkin hitting on you and odd, unfulfilling romance options (compared to MaleShep) are what Jane gets. Sorry. Sux2bu.

Who cares what default face FemShep has? I make my own.
I'm glad that most ManShep players make their own face too, and don't use Sheploo, who is born out of laziness.
They wanted a mascot, looked in some fashion magazine and picked that pickled prune of a face. So what? How does that make ManShep more important? Sorry, it doesn't.
But then you're obviously insecure about his importance, so you hate instead.

[Reclusiarch]

And another thread goes down the drain as a Hale vs. Mark war. It's a sad day.

[The Angry One]

I really don't want it to be a war, Meer and Hale both have their good points, but Meer is monotone as hell. Some people like that, fair enough. But others just have to hate.

Oh well, haters gonna hate.

[Goat_Shepard]

The Angry One wrote...
 Meer is monotone as hell.

The Angry One wrote...

But others just have to hate.
Oh well, haters gonna hate.

Sooo you're a Mark Meer hater but "others just have to hate". Way to contradict yourself in one post. 

[ToshiStation38]

How did this thread turn in this direction, anyways? Does any mention of Hale or Meer just spark immediate controversy and argument? Some people like Meer, some people like Hale. So sense trying to point out how someone's opinion is somehow incorrect.

[The Angry One]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
 Meer is monotone as hell.

The Angry One wrote...

But others just have to hate.
Oh well, haters gonna hate.

Sooo you're a Mark Meer hater but "others just have to hate". Way to contradict yourself in one post. 

I'm stating a fact. He's monotone as ManShep. That's not an insult, as some people like that.
I, however, don't. But I don't bash him for it.

[didymos1120]

xXDWARFAREXx wrote...

Lareit wrote...
FACT#2. When a human is exposed to the vacuum of space their body undergoes decompression. The first 7 seconds into the decompression the subject has full control of their motor functions and higher cognitive reasoning. After words as their blood begins to expand and boil away their higher reasoning decays untill they eventually pass out at the 30 second mark.

Your fact #2 is a bit off as I understand it.  Your skin and arteries/veins/capillaries are a good enough container that your blood doesn't boil.  It's the sustained lack of oxygenated blood to the brain that drops the higher reasoning and passing out.

I think the whole "blood boiling" thing got started because the drop in pressure will cause blood gases to precipitate.  "Boiling" isn't a bad qualitative way to describe a bunch of gas bubbles forming in your blood and organs, so my guess is someone used it for that purpose at some point and it got taken too literally and passed on into urban legend.  This NASA page provides a good description of what happens, and adds to the whole "trauma" side of the discussion:

Various minor problems (sunburn, possibly "the bends", certainly some [mild, reversible, painless] swelling of skin and underlying tissue) start after ten seconds or so. At some point you lose
consciousness from lack of oxygen. Injuries accumulate. After perhaps one or two minutes, you're dying. The limits are not really known.

You do not explode and your blood does not boil because of the containing effect of your skin and circulatory system. You do not instantly freeze because, although the space environment is typically very cold, heat does not transfer away from a body quickly. Loss of consciousness occurs only after the body has depleted the supply of oxygen in the blood. If your skin is exposed to direct sunlight without any protection from its intense ultraviolet radiation, you can get a very bad sunburn.

At NASA's Manned Spacecraft Center (now renamed Johnson Space Center) we had a test subject accidentally exposed to a near vacuum (less than 1 psi) in an incident involving a leaking space suit in a vacuum chamber back in '65. He remained conscious for about 14 seconds, which is about the time it takes for O2 deprived blood to go from the lungs to the brain. The suit probably did not reach a hard vacuum, and we began repressurizing the chamber within 15 seconds. The subject regained consciousness at around 15,000 feet equivalent altitude. The subject later reported that he could feel and hear the air leaking out, and his last conscious memory was of the water on his tongue beginning to boil.

I don't know about you, but that sounds rather unpleasant.  Now add in the rest of the circumstances Shep was in and I think "traumatic" is rather apt.  MOST TRAUMATIC THING EVAR!?  No, but definitely far beyond the "Well, that kinda sucked. Boy, I sure am glad it didn't last that long, at least as far as some couch-sitting outside observer reminiscing about falling off the monkey bars at recess one time is concerned" level.

Modifié par didymos1120, 20 février 2010 - 11:02 .

[didymos1120]

Lareit wrote...

Actually, I recently researched this very topic when people discussed how silly it was that everyone was only wearing breathers when going inside the collector base. THe exposed ears, eyes would be enough to begin decompression in your lungs and blood stream. Eventually your muscle too.

This assumes the Collector ship was open to vacuum and not merely filled with crap better kept out of one's lungs.  All indications were that it was actually pressurized.  Notice how there's dripping liquids and whatnot all around?  In a vacuum, that junk would just sublimate and skip most of the groovy dripping action.  Still, helmets probably would have been the best choice. 

ETA:  Noticed you said 'base' not 'ship'.  Doesn't really matter, though.  The base was clearly not open to space either. Had it been, the crew would have died immediately after being de-casketed, or while traipsing back to the ship in their casual wear.

Modifié par didymos1120, 20 février 2010 - 06:54 .

[PathofDaggers]

I for one prefer playing as a male character, and I tought Meer was very emotional if you didnt pick the neutral option. My biggest thing against Hale is that her playing Niomi in MGS series ruined all her other roles for me because I'll always see her as Niomi.

[EverteMax]

PathofDaggers wrote...
My biggest thing against Hale is that her playing Niomi in MGS series ruined all her other roles for me because I'll always see her as Niomi.

First point to bring up...this post is way past the terminus systems...LOL. The topic and the disucssion are like 20LY away from each other.

And as Daggers point out, Hale's best role was Naomi in MGS2, and probably bastilla in KOTOR. The rest of her roles can't put me in the same mindset as looking at a fresh voice dialogue from another VA.

Coming to shepard. I think they are both good. I always knew paragon playing was boring. If you switch to renegade, the tone and dialogue content turns 180.

[Goat_Shepard]

The Angry One wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
 Meer is monotone as hell.

The Angry One wrote...

But others just have to hate.
Oh well, haters gonna hate.

Sooo you're a Mark Meer hater but "others just have to hate". Way to contradict yourself in one post. 

I'm stating a fact. He's monotone as ManShep. That's not an insult, as some people like that.
I, however, don't. But I don't bash him for it.

Oh yeah, a total fact. I'm 100% sure Bioware got together and said "Who will we use for the VA in our new game trailer?" "Oh I know! Mark Meer! That guy is monotone as hell!".  Meer voice is marketted over Hales because he's a more talented voice actor. And don't try to fool yourself with "some people like Meer's monotone", when you are in fact in the minority.

I know you're trying to protect your pride, and anyone defending Meer is trying to preserve there own, so I'll finish my part of the discussion by saying damn am I glad I'm a dude.

[Mudzr]

I like Meer quite a bit, and I also really like Femshep's direction in ME2, she kind of sounds like Ripley from aliens. But yes, her voice does come off a bit forced while Meer's is more natural.

Yes he can be monotone/ flat some time, just like every other male voice. The difference is, Hale puts on an "acting voice", or stylised voice while Meer's VA comes across alot more believable.



I guess it's just opinion, do you like natural or stylised?





Anyways... to OP, that's cool, I didn't personally recognise myself. I'm just going to say that nearly every voice in ME2 is great. Seriously, bioware has put alot of effort into this, goodjob.

[didymos1120]

Oh yeah, BTW: all you people involved in the "suffocation" controversy?  So, here's the thing: to suffocate is to asphyxiate is to be deprived of oxygen.  IOW, there's nothing to argue about.  Shep suffocated.  Shep asphyxiated. Shep was deprived of oxygen. The means was simply a suit leak rather than a pillow applied directly to the face or shooting up too much heroin or whatever.  There's no time limit below which the term can't be applied or approved list of mechanisms. In terms of dictionary definitions, even "smothered" is technically OK, though hardly anyone actually uses it in that more general sense anymore.

Modifié par didymos1120, 20 février 2010 - 11:29 .

[WrexKroganKing]

Opinion =/= to fact.



Just because I think Jennifer Hale overacts in a hilariously parodic, ham fisted manner does not mean I am a troll, a blind 'hater' or a misogynist.



It simply means that I do not enjoy what I feel is an overly forced, unrealistic, poorly delivered performance.