525 réponses à ce sujet

[casedawgz]

The thing that gets me is he claims to be a fan of Jade Empire. Aren't the RPG mechanics just as light in that game? I mean...you equip a few gems that don't affect much, you level up thousand cuts and longsword, and you're pretty much all set for the whole game.

[EtherD]

I could not help myself but I find it a bit funny how the OP complains bout the ammo issue. Which opens up to the simple fact and statement of... how about you just "don't suck". I love the limited ammo as it creates that nice feel of making every shot count. If your running out of ammo, try aiming better. Even without such sarcasm I'm serious, just get better at the FPS portion and you'll rarely run out of ammo. Even on insanity I'm not starving for ammo.



As for the storyline, ME2 isn't about building an epic, the epic is already there. This is the journey in between, the single point of ME2 was to prepare the best team in the galaxy for a "suicide mission".



The less time you took on sorting through all your inventory & medigel junk, the more time you get to spend with the actual fun parts of the game like I don't know.. the storyline, the battles, and the most important part the Normandy.. I mean the characters. I mean of course, you enjoyed tediously looking through all your equipment. Just think, they took the inventory system out so you could scan planets with all that new spare time!



Finally, the love interests.. I know you said it was a minor gripe but still.. really? You want full on nudity & p0rn in ME2 is what I am to understand. Oh I know, they could put positional options during the scene! Much like a conversation right? Why didn't Bioware think of that!? It's PERFECT for the game! ~Mass Sarcasm~ ™

[MPaBkaTa123]

TornadoADV wrote...

How are Zaeed and Jacob not interesting? Hell, they are the most interesting of the bunch.

The point is that Jacob is rather bland and you don't really get a good look at zaeed's personality since he can't talk.

[LostHH]

I really like this game but for me at least, it has lost some of that "epic" feel that the first had. Here's hoping for ME3!

[TornadoADV]

MPaBkaTa123 wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...

How are Zaeed and Jacob not interesting? Hell, they are the most interesting of the bunch.

The point is that Jacob is rather bland and you don't really get a good look at zaeed's personality since he can't talk.

Jacob is the normal guy without any issues, that's why I like him. And Zaeed has more lines in the game the half of the characters! Talk to him after missions (excluding N7s) or bring him along when you go planetside, he provides the best dialogue on the game.

[MPaBkaTa123]

TornadoADV wrote...

MPaBkaTa123 wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...

How are Zaeed and Jacob not interesting? Hell, they are the most interesting of the bunch.

The point is that Jacob is rather bland and you don't really get a good look at zaeed's personality since he can't talk.

Jacob is the normal guy without any issues, that's why I like him. And Zaeed has more lines in the game the half of the characters! Talk to him after missions (excluding N7s) or bring him along when you go planetside, he provides the best dialogue on the game.

Will have to bring Zaeed more see if you're right, but Jacob is just kind of there. Maybe because i am playing a Man Shepard but he just does not seem very interesting to me.

[yoomazir]

EtherD wrote...

I could not help myself but I find it a bit funny how the OP complains bout the ammo issue. Which opens up to the simple fact and statement of... how about you just "don't suck". I love the limited ammo as it creates that nice feel of making every shot count. If your running out of ammo, try aiming better. Even without such sarcasm I'm serious, just get better at the FPS portion and you'll rarely run out of ammo. Even on insanity I'm not starving for ammo.

As for the storyline, ME2 isn't about building an epic, the epic is already there. This is the journey in between, the single point of ME2 was to prepare the best team in the galaxy for a "suicide mission".

The less time you took on sorting through all your inventory & medigel junk, the more time you get to spend with the actual fun parts of the game like I don't know.. the storyline, the battles, and the most important part the Normandy.. I mean the characters. I mean of course, you enjoyed tediously looking through all your equipment. Just think, they took the inventory system out so you could scan planets with all that new spare time!

Finally, the love interests.. I know you said it was a minor gripe but still.. really? You want full on nudity & p0rn in ME2 is what I am to understand. Oh I know, they could put positional options during the scene! Much like a conversation right? Why didn't Bioware think of that!? It's PERFECT for the game! ~Mass Sarcasm~ ™

how about you go and play Gears of War if you want limited ammo ? the thermal clips are a lame atempt to make ME2 more mainstream for retards like you.

Ohh look, this kid is happy about not having loot & inventory, I tell you guys, this dude means serious buissness, TPS ALL THE WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY BABY!

And now the love interest; here we go again with the nudity, it's amazing how kiddies like him bring it out to defend ME2. dude.

"~Mass Sarcasm~ "  yes,  MASS SARCASM INDEED.

Modifié par yoomazir, 24 février 2010 - 11:47 .

[Chronogryphon]

The OP's post makes me laugh. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but trying to say that the first Mass Effect was *anything* like Bioware's previous games is utter nonsense. I own and have played EVERY Bioware game released to date(I am even talking about the games when they were known as Black Isle). Mass Effect is Bioware's flagship title and is their first series that was not based in a previously established universe(e.g: Forgotten Realms and Star Wars). Mass Effect does not play like any of their previous games and was never intended to. It was created to be an Action RPG, whereas NWN/DA:O/BG I & II/Planescape Torment/etc... were designed to be traditional western RPG's. My point is, if you don't like this Bioware game then go play another Bioware game that suits your playstyle. Also, don't try to blame EA for you hating the game and the storyline. They have nothing to do with Bioware's games other than taking Atari's place as their publisher. Oh, and to end this post... guns having limited ammunition?! Where'd they get that crazy idea?! *rolls eyes*

[yoomazir]

"guns having limited ammunition?! Where'd they get that crazy idea?! *rolls eyes*"


guns having  UNlimited ammunition?! Where'd they get that crazy idea?! *rolls eyes

Modifié par yoomazir, 24 février 2010 - 12:51 .

[addiction21]

Saying changes were made to make a game mainstream is like so mainstream and went out of style back in 07... you know when BioWare announced a shooter/rpg for the Xbox. Ya, you can not get much more mainstream then that unless the game is called SUPER AWESOME GAME FOR THE MAINSTREAM!!!!

You do not like the changes, cool. That is your right, but would anyone care to elaborate on how ammo makes something more mainstream or how having a limited amount of ammunition equals being dumbed down.

[Carmarkcaine]

MPaBkaTa123 wrote...

Carmarkcaine wrote...

You are absolutely right. The problem is, and I've mentioned this before, that most player that are left in the forums are console players and they are very easy to satisfy compared to pc players. I think most critics have left the forum, only fanboys are left, and for them the game is perfect, which really tells alot about them and their game style, but I guess that's why they bought a console and not a real computer.

And as for the fact you did'nt buy the game, thumbs up for that. I wish I didnt buy it either.

This has been said about a thousand times but using a console does not render you an idiot. Also there is a large difference between a critic (a person who points out both strengths and weaknesses in something and analyzes them) and a hater (a person who is too busy whining to notice anything he/she may like). About the console thing though, i use a PC myself but why does everyone else who uses one find console players to be beneath them. It's just a different way to play not a dumbed down version of  "the real thing".

Removing the obsolite comments that only serves to emp your pathetic fragile ego, and the idea that you are unique, because you mother told you, but yet you dont have enough selfesteem to not be personal and offensive in your comments, so I guess she failed......misrably.

Now to the point. My theori about the console players(funny you just HAD to mention you played it on PC btw) is very simpel. Why, I say WHY play a FPS on a consol of all things? Its like playing a game and the controller is your keyboard and head which you repetedly smash against each other.
Hence I conclude it must be kids, since alot of people start playing games nowadays via consol, even though I'd dare say consols are only good for karate games and puzzles.

[Carmarkcaine]

Jaysonie wrote...

Carmarkcaine wrote...

You are absolutly correct. The problem is, and I've mentioned this before, that most player that are left in forums are consol players and they are SOOO easy to satisfie compared to pc players. I think most critics have left the forum, only fanboys are left, and for them the game is PERFECT, which really tells alot about them and there game style, but I guess that's why they bought a consol and not a real computer.

And as for the fact you dindt buy the game, thumbs up for that. I wsih I didnt have either.

The core audience was and always has been for console gamers. Get over yourself, pc gaming is no better than console gaming.

You should try and buy a PC and get some of the old games, before consols was an issue.

Modifié par Carmarkcaine, 24 février 2010 - 03:56 .

[SithLordExarKun]

yoomazir wrote...

EtherD wrote...

I could not help myself but I find it a bit funny how the OP complains bout the ammo issue. Which opens up to the simple fact and statement of... how about you just "don't suck". I love the limited ammo as it creates that nice feel of making every shot count. If your running out of ammo, try aiming better. Even without such sarcasm I'm serious, just get better at the FPS portion and you'll rarely run out of ammo. Even on insanity I'm not starving for ammo.

As for the storyline, ME2 isn't about building an epic, the epic is already there. This is the journey in between, the single point of ME2 was to prepare the best team in the galaxy for a "suicide mission".

The less time you took on sorting through all your inventory & medigel junk, the more time you get to spend with the actual fun parts of the game like I don't know.. the storyline, the battles, and the most important part the Normandy.. I mean the characters. I mean of course, you enjoyed tediously looking through all your equipment. Just think, they took the inventory system out so you could scan planets with all that new spare time!

Finally, the love interests.. I know you said it was a minor gripe but still.. really? You want full on nudity & p0rn in ME2 is what I am to understand. Oh I know, they could put positional options during the scene! Much like a conversation right? Why didn't Bioware think of that!? It's PERFECT for the game! ~Mass Sarcasm~ ™

how about you go and play Gears of War if you want limited ammo ? the thermal clips are a lame atempt to make ME2 more mainstream for retards like you.

Ohh look, this kid is happy about not having loot & inventory, I tell you guys, this dude means serious buissness, TPS ALL THE WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY BABY!

And now the love interest; here we go again with the nudity, it's amazing how kiddies like him bring it out to defend ME2. dude.

"~Mass Sarcasm~ "  yes,  MASS SARCASM INDEED.

Wow getting butthurt over an opinion that differs from yours huh?

[Habelo]

kotor sucked azz

[sos986]

whoa, I need to back up, did someone enter fable three into contention for goty? really in fable two we could make ham sandwitches, in fable three we can make hot ham and swiss, maybe in the next generation Peter Molyneux can figure out the intricacy's of burger world.

[doublethedose]

K0braTh0r wrote...

Hello there dear Mass Effect fans. I have played Mass Effect mainly because it was signed by BioWare and I loved SW KOTOR and Jade Empire so I was sure it was going to be a very good game. I was wrong. It got me stunned so hard, that I couldn't let it go until I finished it. I think Mass Effect is one of the greatest games EVER made.

Due to the amazing experience and storyline from Mass Effect, incredible gameplay and great RPG structure, I had huge expectations from ME2, expected to ****** my pants at first launch ... But instead a bitter-sour taste came into my mouth...

There are a lot of stupid and badly implemented stuff in the game, if I can
remember them all, I'll edit my post, of course if it isn't deleted for
making a bad image to the game. I have a lot of PC-games playing
experience and as a devoted fan to BioWare's RPGs, to avoid future mistakes, especially
on ME3 I would like to tell you my point of view, even if you'd take notice of it or not.

So I got totally shocked when I saw AMMO on my weapons ... I was like "WTF?!?" I thought it's only for the moment, maybe the pistol was damaged or something, but as I advanced in the game I saw it was made this way and with all due respect BioWare, this was the biggest and idiotic thing EVER to see in a production with your signature. This leads to the major problem, you decided to make this game more of an FPS-Action Game than an RPG-Action Game, but then I thought, heck even in FPSs' you have bigger ammo limit to carry than in this game, even with upgrades. So what was the point for this ? Just another great idea ?

Various gameplay, I believe you would like to call, "improvements", right ? just blew this game's chances of being the best game of 2010 and destroyed the hearts (I'm pretty sure I am not the only one severely dissapointed) of BioWare fans.

Some of these are :

-extremely simplified storyline, totally predictable and very, very simple (reffering to the main and only plot, the one that matters...);

- extremely simplified RPG component;

- extremely simplified market (buying items without the possibility to sell them?!?);

- extremely simplified and even badly modified inventory and squad equip screen (I can't dress up my team anymore?);

- simplified romantic scenes (after what everybody saw in ME 1 it is clear they expected the same in the 2nd part, although this is not a critical dissapointment);

- the storyline...hey I didn't expected to continue the game with the council saved and the galaxy too but at least the obvious choice for most gamers would have been Captain Anderson for councilor not Udina (again not a critical dissapointment);

- what happened to omnigel? why can't I choose decoding using omnigel? you added planetary scanning...to make the game longer by boring players to death? couldn't an omnigel scan been easier? again I guess another great idea to take Omnigel out;

- you added fuel and probes to buy via fuel depots, great, but why can't we sell the minerals to the depots to make some credits? and the Normandy uses fuel only when it travels in the Nebula but not when it travels inside a Solar System or when it uses a Mass Relay?

I currently haven't finished the game, but I'm sure I'll be back with something more to say...

In conclusion, I don't know what you tried to do BioWare if it was EA's fault or you just felt it to make some "tests" with one of the most epic games you ever made but to be honest you made this game the biggest dissapointment of the year, and when I mean you, I'm sure the devs know who's responsible, who called the shots...

Please excuse me if my report is too harsh, but I'm sick and tired of seeing games with huge potential and great storyline going to the trashcan...I feel right now like I felt after playing Gothic 1 and 2, when I started the 3rd one...the same taste...bitter-taste...of a huge dissapointment, at least Piranha's Bytes excuse was that they were rushed by the producers, they had to work at least one more year on the Gothic 3 project.

So...what is YOUR excuse BIOWARE ?!?

P.S.: The first Mass Effect felt like playing a game in which you invested not only time and hard work but PASSION too, it had such an unique and thrilling experience that never got you bored not even on planet explorations when Mass Effect 2 makes the impression of just another superficial EA game made without passion or dedication, only to make some more profit, it has very little of the experience that the first one offered, often becoming a little boring.

Shame on you BioWare...shame on you...you've let EA Games get the better of you...

let's look into your post and do a little comparison.

-ammo system: you seem to mainly complain about how the game was simplified.... but you're contradicting yourself, the new ammo system requires more strategy then the overly cheap and simple heat system.

-extremely simplified story? riiiiiight, if you look closely it has pretty much the same core, the difference is you don't have the alliance backing you up. the story on the first mass effect is not exactly original...what made it good is the deep personalities of the characters. Characters in Mass Effect 2 has even more dialog options! you can even interrupt conversations! and the ending of mass effect 2 is even more tense cause you never know what's gonna happen! besides it's sepposed to build up the tension for mass effect 3... give them a break!

-extremly simplified RPG: seriously, all the powers are still there with the addition of new cool stuff like shockwave. what's missing? aaaaah, I see... you prefer to see all those long, numerous bars don't you? well guess what! it's pretty much the same! the difference is you require more points to progress. if you give mass effect 2 those long bars that you have to add one by one then it'll be a better game right? wow big deal. and don't even start about lesser abilities. what's the point of having more than one armor abilities? even the powers now require more strategy as in...MORE COMPLEX! 

-SIMPLIFIED ROMANCE???????????? DID YOU PLAY THE GAME?? there's a loooot of options this time around. you did say you haven't even gotten to the final mission so how did you know it was simplified??

-about the councilor thing... YOU WANT CAPTAIN ANDERSON AS THE COUNCILOR THEN LOAD YOUR GOD DAMN SAVE GAME FROM YOUR PREVIOUS MASS EFFECT! how could you complain about this? are you blaming BIOWARE  cause you lost your mass effect save game?

[yoomazir]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

[ Wow getting butthurt over an opinion that differs from yours huh?

seems you' ve got experience about it am I right? how much do you fare for it?

[DomerPyle]

this thread is lulz. and, while i wasn't disappinted with ME2, that was only because i didn't get my hopes up . it's definitely not "AMAZING." it's only "decent". if they made it more like oblivion, but in space, it would be better. oh, and also they should've changed the story to make it flow better from me1, since certain parts of me2 depended on the mass effect books, which nobody read. stuff like that only really works AFTER the main story is complete.

Modifié par DomerPyle, 24 février 2010 - 09:19 .

[bigheadzach]

[quote]One thing is for sure, the suicide mission was as close as you can get to the thrilling and great feeling that Mass Effect offered. Other than that is just chores and work, you can't have a damn storyline based on recruiting/loyalty missions, yes it's great you get to know your team mates and all but if it were integrated into the complex and unpredictable story of the first game, it would have made it even more great than it is.[/quote]Bolded for emphasis.

ME1: Within 10 minutes of starting the game, you find out Saren is the big bad boss, and the majority of the plot missions (all 9 of them: Eden Prime, Citadel, Noveria, Feros, Therum, Virmire, brief Citadel, then Ilos, and finally Citadel again) you are attempting to track Saren down and investigate what it is that he is after and why. It's only on Virmire that you really pick up the major plot twist.

ME2: Within 10 minutes of starting the game, you find out The Collectors are the big bad boss, and the majority of the plot missions (all 13 of them: Freedom's Progress, The Professor, Archangel, The Convict, The Warlord, The Veteran, Horizon, The Assassin, The Justicar, Tali, Collector Ship, IFF, Suicide Mission) you are attempting to acquire the team needed to successfully complete the final mission, as well as investigate the nature of the Collectors and why they are doing what they are doing. It's only on the Collector Ship that you really pick up the major plot twist. (I omitted the loyalty missions for a reason, read below).

If you remove the "recruit" missions, ME2 has 5 "plot" missions to ME1's 9. However, in ME1, acquiring your squad is unavoidable. You can't go into Virmire without having picked up Wrex, Tali, Garrus, or Liara. Hell, you can't even leave Eden Prime without bringing Ashley along, even if you dislike her. You are steered directly towards getting your crew, kicking and screaming. All ME2 did differently was outright state that's what you were doing, and give you the foolhardy option of ignoring it, along with penalties for doing so. That is, you can go directly to the Collector Ship mission with only 6 people in your party, if you felt it urgent enough.

Squad recruitment has always been the focus in both games; don't pretend like you were duped.

If your complaint of predictability fell on the notion that you were warned that not gathering your crew and getting them loyal would result in deaths, then you have EA/Bioware's marketing department to blame.

To be honest, EA/Bioware giving me that information was a lot more understandable and emotionally intense than Joss Whedon randomly killing off / maiming practically the entire cast of Serenity. As Joss and his rabid fans painfully learned, the thrill isn't in not knowing that death is a possibility, it's about the uncertainty of who, when, and how.

In ME1, there were two times this occurred, and you pretty much chose who died. No surprises there; pick who annoyed you, pissed you off, or didn't want to bang later. <_<

Trust me, if you went into ME2 not knowing about the need for recruiting everyone and getting loyalties, you would have been a lot more pissed off when 2/3rds of your crew ended up dying like punks - at least, the gamerish crowd would have ("Why did he/she die? I maxed out his/her stats and gave him/her the best weapons! It shouldn't matter than I didn't help him/her sort his/her daddy/mommy problems out!")

Both games have the same structure:

• Act I: The antagonist is revealed. Protagonist is given the supreme authority / means to pursue, but how it's accomplished is left up to him (idealism vs. pragmatism).
• Act II: The protagonist looks for clues on how to defeat the antagonist / thwart his plans, and acquires necessary help/resources along the way.
• Act III: Plot twist / catastrophe occurs. Final mission considered suicidal, so romantic interest decides "I want you to know how I feel before we die. Better do the deed while we still can."
• Act IV: Final battle.

If this is your argument for ME2 being predictable, then you're correct with respect to comparing the two games together as a series...but also very naive on how narratives work.
[quote]What did Mass Effect 2 had from the previous game ? All the good things that made the first game great were taken out or greatly reduced and simplified and the ones that did needed some changes, got changed into something far more worse or again, completely taken out. This means to me that ME2 is a big step back compared to the first one.[/quote]INVENTORY
ME1: An inventory system that was largely filled with excess weapon/ammo mods that you already had, and that would automatically scale up with level. I don't know how fluid the inventory system was on the PC version, but XBox owners suffered through the slow scrolling. I ended up using Notepad to manage my inventory, and then made brief excursions into that dead, rotting buffalo corpse of a system to do selling / hand-me-downs like a good RPGer should.

Ask me this - narratively speaking, if you were made a Spectre and given wide authority to do the job, why not give you the Spectre Gear out of the gate? "Shepard tried as hard as he could to save the universe, but ultimately he failed because we didn't know he was bad at money management and blew it all on Quasar, ryncol, and Asari hookers. Maybe if we had some sort of discretionary emergency save-the-effing-galaxy fund, we could have helped him."

So, to counter this, Bioware decided by the time you finished Virmire, every goddamn wastepaper basket had a military-grade sniper rifle in it. Combined with the notion that party members only have two hands at all times and so could only wield one weapon (and usually were only good/useful with that one weapon), you had a lot of salvage on your hands, and as someone back on page I-forget-it-was-so-damn-long-ago said, try bringing your arsenal to the local Walmart and ask to speak to "the guy who makes the purchasing decisions".

In a way, the option to omni-gel the whole lot was Bioware saying, "Yeah, holy crap, that's effing ridiculous. How about we remember that it's the future and nanotechnology can make/unmake anything we want?" Omni-gel should be as valuable, useful, and government-controlled as petroleum or uranium is today.

If these glaring continuity-violations-for-the-sake-of-balanced-gameplay-oh-by-the-way-how-is-looting-any-open-container-Final-Fantasy-style-not-a-felony are what you call "hardcore RPG gameplay", I want none of it. (Okay, so you do spend lots of time in ME2 hacking bank accounts and safes, but it's a lot less frivolous than ME1. They're there to reward people who enjoy easter-egg hunts, if you think about it; otherwise they'd just make the mission rewards bigger.)

ME2: Many fewer weapons than ME1, but you got them through research / careful examination of rooms, and they were distinct. Heavy Pistol? Either more shots with less damage, or fewer shots with penetrating power. SMG? An accurate firearm that was pants against shields, or a spray-and-pray that tore through anything like butter. Sniper Rifle? One that is moderately powered and had decent aim, or the "make salsa out of heads" rifle that jittered about like an epileptic monkey on a Red Bull & meth cocktail.

Oh, you had choices, you just chose not to choose because this time, everyone was just as capable as you of seeing those choices, which makes it feel less special when you solve it. <_<

SIDE MISSIONS
ME1: The Mako. Admittedly for the first hour or so I was humming the tune to Moon Patrol as I drove around looking for trouble, but the novelty got old when the cookie-cutter assaults started to blur together. "Oh, it's using (CHOOSE ONE: the cave, the underground facility, the warehouse)? Then I know where the enemies are, where the best cover is, lather rinse repeat. Ka-ching!" The promise of "you get more XP defeating enemies outside of the Mako than within it" only lasts so long.

I like the Mako, but make its experiences more diverse! More vehicle types! Add some jumps! Treacherous cliffs! 70's Police chases! Rally-esque drifting! Drive into the gullet of a Thresher Maw and explode the f**k out of it! I mean, Grunt did this in the teaser video!

ME2: Missions are more hidden, found when scanning for resources. The environments in which they take place are very distinct, and available cover (while plentiful) is varied. I miss the Mako, but perhaps the Hammerhead will redeem this. (I'd definitely see Bioware bringing vehicle combat back in ME3, if not more integrating it with squad combat.)

RESOURCE COLLECTION

ME1: A handful of achievement-carrots that only gives you more cash in case you're not selling everything in sight. It felt ponderous, especially for those times the Mako got stuck in a ditch and I didn't have tow cables to pull it out of there???

Apart from the couple of Codex entries these morsels gave, I could care less about some old moldy Turian dogtags. There was no incentive to get them other than to feed my completionist disorder.

ME2: Required to fuel the research needed to complete the final mission without casualties. They made it compulsory, which rubbed some people the wrong way. I somewhat agree that it was comparably ponderous to ME1's method, but at least it was something new and stimulating. I bet the PC players are jealous they didn't have tactile feedback when they found the motherlodes. There's something about a vibration in your lap that lets you know you did good. Yes, that's disturbing and yes, I'm a guy. Rumbles in your naughty bits is universally acceptable. Plus, without the use of probes and planets, they couldn't have inserted a classic joke into the game. 

[quote]The last disappointing thing I noticed upon finishing the game.

One of the great aspects of the first game was the fact that you had a CHOICE. After playing games like KoTOR, Jade Empire, Fable and so on, where you had to choose between light or dark, good or wrong, savior or destroyer, Mass Effect 1 provided the greates thing ever to be seen in a game, the Paragon/Renegade options.
These bars were filled when choices to appropiate matters were considered the best option to be taken. It doesn't mean that Renegade is bad or Paragon the ultimate good, they are just means of solving different situations.

While Renegade is a little more realistic approach and Paragon a little utopic but not impossibile, these 2 were available the whole game to choose at any time how you would react to a certain situation without having the drawback that Light/Dark games had ( do a good deed the dark meter will go down and viceversa).

In Mass Effect 2 they felt the need to screw this too, yes I really like the actual behaviour intervention of both of them, but by stripping the CHOICE that was omnipresent in the first game from us greatly overshadows this nice aspect they added.[/quote]

I fail to see where this "choice" you speak of was removed. Please provide an example.

Paragon/Renegade isn't good/evil. It's idealism vs. pragmatism. This is evident in the translation of those terms to other languages in multilingual versions of the game (YouTube has plenty of examples).

I can play through the game full Paragon, where I give all criminals a chance to repent / take the moral high road. I can also play through the game as a "Boondock Saint" of sorts: I perform Paragon actions when it involves authority, lawful figures, and the downtrodden, but show no mercy towards the wicked / corrupt (kill mercs, traitors, cowards, and criminal scum). Ask yourself - does doing that make me any more "evil" from a modern social perspective? Tough to say, and I'm glad the game makes it that ambiguous.

[quote]I don't know about you, but I tried having everybody loyal and I did, except one, Jack. It wasn't a great loss due to her behaviour but it would have made me feel better as I finished it on Paragon, to change her and make her better.
Her loyalty mission is very easy, bomb a base, done but after that how should I expect that she has to pick a fight with Miranda?[/quote]

Just because Jack reconciled that one aspect of her life doesn't mean she instantly forgave Cerberus for all their sins. Mental healing isn't an instant process, just like how Miranda (or anyone, for that matter) just doesn't decide to quit her job the moment she feels a twinge of regret/disloyalty. Lots of people grumble at their crappy jobs but don't quit them. So it's reasonable to think that at some point those two personalities (loyalist vs. rebel) would clash, just as obviously as the others clash (which I'll omit for spoilerish reasons).

[quote]And to my greatest shock and surprise, I had a little more than 3/4 Paragon but couldn't use the option ( a quick reminder, in the first game both would have been available at any time). So she died. Again I saw the same thing with Samara's loyalty mission when I couldn't choose any of the Paragon/Renegade option when the Ardat-Yakshi tries to seduce me...I kept her mission for last to gather as much Paragon as possibile and still it was grayed out.

Hell I even finished the game and I didn't had 100% Paragon...and in the first one I had and 1/4 Renegade too.[/quote]

You weren't idealistic enough. Consider this comparison, though.

ME1: The choice you make in how many points to allocate to Charm/Intimidate determines what conversation options you get.

ME2: The choice you make in the conversation/action options you get determines whether you are capable of being charming or intimidating enough to settle those fights (and others) without favoring one / snubbing the other.

The first sounds like a minmaxed gamerish dodge. The second sounds like narrative consequence; the game gradually determined just how devoted you were to idealism, or pragmatism.

Even if you prefer the gamerish dodge, you had every option to pursue that: take points in your class skill - it outright states that by doing so, you increase the amount of points awarded for Paragon/Renegade actions.
[quote]I saw the romance scene with Miranda, compared to the first game, it's garbage, but as many people said this game was heading to one direction -> CONSOLE GAMERS -> Average Age between 9 and 18 of gamers -> majority of gamers on consoles haven't reached 18 yet.[/quote]<_< *sigh* If your requirement of a romance scene involves seeing butt crack, thrusting, or a nipple, you need to look up the definition of the word romance. If this disappointed you, I recommend investing money on an action RPG that involves gratuitous sex scenes...I suggest looking towards Japan; there's a real market for it there.

For the record, my first playthrough involved developing the relationship with Miranda for the obvious physical reasons, but then when Tali confessed her love for me, I spent HOURS contemplating. I ended up going with the emotional reward rather than the physical, because it felt right, and considering all my Shepard had done / experienced with Tali alongside, it made sense to me.

(Then I went back and watched the Miranda scene on YouTube. Lovely dirty-pillows.)

My next playthrough, if my character shapes up to be less of a xenophile, I may choose different.

[quote]This game is a lot more simple in all possibile aspects a game can be, a total disappointment to fans and industry of video games alike (playing a game that is a disgrace to most PC gamers in the year of 2010, even the older RPGs were more complex, but wait, they WERE ACTUALLY RPGs). And all those fanboys that loved this game on their shiny 360, well it's a totally different feeling when you're playing on a simple and limited joystick and when you're playing on a PC with keyboards and mice...This game had better not been released for PC.[/quote]

Spoken like a true "D&D 4th Edition ruined my hobby because I no longer feel special about having parsed the complicated rules!" complainant.

Get off your "PC games must be complicated" high horse and take the "NO GURLZ ALLOWED" sign off your treehouse/basement door. The XBox360 is a USB keyboard/mouse and upgradable hardware configuration away from accomplishing the same thing (and the Windows Live / Games For Windows initiative tells me which way the wind is blowing - encouraging and embracing more people into the gaming fold). I'm a board gamer, and nothing annoys me more than elitists in my hobby saying that games with lots of dice are stupid just because there's less emphasis on strategy (a lie). If people enjoy themselves, EVERYONE WINS.

Complication for complication's sake is bad design. Case and point: ME1's inventory/equipment system.

[quote]All of this being said I still can't believe BioWare is behind it, but I am more than certain that EA is responsible for it, because their policy over the years had told me one thing: QUANTITY > QUALITY, sell a sh*t load of games per year and make $$$ rather than fewer games that are superior quality which in the end will bring the most $$$. [/quote]

Businesses are in the business of making money. The real good ones know what their target audience is, and make games that entertain that audience, and maintain a sense of integrity. So far, they've done so, in my opinion. As for the EA comment about quantity > quality, certain games have to be re-released; no one wants to play Madden 2010 with 1998's roster and graphics because that's dumb. I doubt you'll hear any better about Activision, who **** out every game license until its hoohah is chapped, battered, bleeding, and torn (Guitar Hero).

If you must blame someone in this argument, blame the tastes and expectations of consumers, of which you are a member. Vote with your dollar in a virtual ocean of dollars. Sign a petition. Form a protest group. But until the majority of gamers agree, you're not going to see much in terms of results.

[quote]They will never stop, they will never learn and be sure that they will never ever achieve half the sales of CoD:Modern Warfare 2 with all their games (created & published alike) launched per year brought together.[/quote]

Businesses are in the business of making money as a priority. Making more money than a competing business is a secondary objective, mainly because the game business isn't about who can make the best Mass Effect game; it doesn't work that way. I know this sounds counter-intuitive, but think about it: in the fast food industry, most advertising is spent on showing how good your burger tastes, not on how bad the other burger tastes. (and if you do see an ad like that, it usually ends on the "our burger tastes good" message.) Political campaigns tend to start that way too, but usually end up with mudslinging...but even then, you're comparing two things that are trying to win the same goal. Mass Effect isn't competing against a similar Activision product - it's competing strictly for your dollar. To do that, it only tries to be as good of an experience only it can be. Fun isn't something you can quantify and track on a sales chart.

I sense Activision bias. Prove me wrong. (For the record, I have no interest in MW2 because of its apparent unbalancedness, and, tragically, the level of maturity in its player base.)

[quote]Great Marketing EA Games at least I'll give you that, the ingenuity of your people in that domain is not to mess with. Other than that nothing is of quality.

P.S.: I love it how even in the credits I saw more managers and marketing representatives from EA Games than developers.[/quote]

Without those people, you wouldn't have heard there was a sequel. Try marketing a game sometime with word-of-mouth only.

[quote]P.S.S.: Forgot about the ending, why the hell do you have the choice of continuing the game ? I believe most of the players did everything that was to be done before the suicidal mission, so what's the point for it ? I think it's their way of making a joke like:

"Hey, now that you finished the game, you can concentrate on more important things like, SCANNING PLANETS, go scan some more after finishing the game, so it can literally get you to sleep ( I did fell to sleep a couple of times when scanning planets and I don't know about other gamers but when a game is literally boring me to death so I can fall asleep, then it's a crap game)." *Ha Ha*
The choice for continuing the game is just irrelevant and pointless.
[/quote]

*facepalm* There were side missions...you just didn't look hard enough. Perhaps this game is too intricate for you.

[addiction21]

bigheadzach wrote...
snip

What he said... just add some ****ty waffle joke every few sentances.

[TJSolo]

I didn't need a marketer to tell me about ME2.
Yay!!! It got a superbowl ad...yawn.
ME2 is a sequel, which reduces the need for marketing.

Marketing itself is an overrated redundant hype machine.

Modifié par TJSolo, 24 février 2010 - 10:05 .

[haberman13]

Not interested in debating this again, but in case the devs are watching these forums I'll say that I was extremely disappointed in the neutering (even if just on the surface) of ME2.



Down with TPSs, combined with RPGs I like the format, but a TPS on its own is dull (basically ME2).



IMO of course

[haberman13]

Jaysonie wrote...

Carmarkcaine wrote...

You are absolutly correct. The problem is, and I've mentioned this before, that most player that are left in forums are consol players and they are SOOO easy to satisfie compared to pc players. I think most critics have left the forum, only fanboys are left, and for them the game is PERFECT, which really tells alot about them and there game style, but I guess that's why they bought a consol and not a real computer.

And as for the fact you dindt buy the game, thumbs up for that. I wsih I didnt have either.

The core audience was and always has been for console gamers. Get over yourself, pc gaming is no better than console gaming.

Yes, this game was made for consoles.

but ... FALSE: PC gaming is superior to console gaming for a number of reasons, which we don't need to detail because we all know the arguments.

The one bonus to console gaming is the "couch" argument, which doesn't really apply anymore anyway.

[lukandroll]

Edje Edgar wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

Well yeah,  I am.

The problem is though,  What I thought I was buying was the sequel to Mass Effect,  what was actually in the box was a decade-late sequel to Quake.  Complete with 1990's AI.

As far as the game breakers go?  Not even close.  At least ME was the RPG it was billed to be,  every single facet of ME2 is a game breaker:  No RPG elements,  nonsensical dialogue,  choices that don't mean anything,  horrible horrible 1990's shooter gameplay that's bad even by those standards,  no inventory,  no loot,  no point to having money,  planet scanning is the second worst gameplay idea I've ever seen,  the first being that red border to the screen when your health is low.  ME2's very foundations are game breakers.

Hyperbole much?

Im not even going to bother refuting your posts "arguments" which actually only consists of statements.

If you ever realise you're not the centre of the world and that nobody really cares about what your personal definition of an rpg is, you should come back. If not, enjoy the tunnel.

Basic Role playing for ya:
Its about role playing the CHARACTER, NOT yourself....
In Me1 you can choose how your character aiming and training will be according to his talents, in ME2
you ARE aiming with YOUR skills not the characters's...
Its a simply concept, but very important in role playing games

Modifié par lukandroll, 24 février 2010 - 10:32 .