120 réponses à ce sujet

[Willowhugger]

Did anyone else find this adventure to be a trifle uncomfortable?  I very much enjoyed the adventure.  It's a classic Apocalypse Now meets Lord of the Flies style adventure with an Arthur C. Clark twist.  However, the simple fact is that I'm not sure it was all that enjoyable with the implied rape and misogyny.  Not to mention, the fact that Jacob Taylor (one of the most progressive black characters in video games) gets saddled with a father who ends up being the savage Jungle King.

It's pretty troubling to me.

[marshalleck]

Willowhugger wrote...

It's pretty troubling to me.

It's supposed to be. The galaxy isn't always a beautiful place.

[KainrycKarr]

Nevermind. Jumped the gun on that one...maybe. Depends on the interpretation of your post.

Is it disturbing? Yes, and was meant to be.

Is it racist? Idk, how much attention do you pay to skin color?

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 19 février 2010 - 05:28 .

[That One Display Name]

to be entirely honest, i spent that whole mission laughing..

[Console Cowboy]

Jacob was disgusted by what he saw and disowned his father for it. you can't really pin any of that evil on him.

[Llandaryn]

Jacob's black?

Man, I need to get my race-glasses fixed. I tend to see all humans as humans. And even the aliens, if I'm honest.

IRT OP

I don't find it disturbing, but I did find Jack's disturbing.

[Gill Kaiser]

That quest had nothing to do with race.

[cronshaw8]

So anytime a black person is portrayed negatively that is racist? I understand your discomfort, but i'd argue the positive portrayal of Jacob far outweighs the negative portrayal of his father. Plus nothing his father does is in any way tied explicitly or implicitly to his race. BioWare seems like a pretty savy company, i would be surprised if they didn't have this exact conversation. The rape thing, yeah that was messed up. but it was supposed to be. If you were disgusted with Jacob's father then BioWare did their job. Also something to consider is the fact that BioWare is a Canadian company. I'm not sure if you are American (i am) but my impression is that Canada is much closer to Europe as far as racial issues are concerened. They tend to be a little less careful about stuff because their culture does not carry the same racial baggage as the US. Anyway the fact that a video game can give rise to this type of discussion is a good thing i think.

[GenericPlayer2]

I didn't like the quest over all. I hoped ME2 would let us land on Earth. Jacob's loyalty quest could have been an opportunity for that, but they went with the desert island scenario.

In addition, Captain Taylor's decisions don't reflect on his son. You can only complete the mission by having him put in jail, or by letting him commit suicide. There is no option to help him escape.

Modifié par GenericPlayer2, 19 février 2010 - 05:35 .

[jacksmedula1]

Willowhugger wrote...

Did anyone else find this adventure to be a trifle uncomfortable?  I very much enjoyed the adventure.  It's a classic Apocalypse Now meets Lord of the Flies style adventure with an Arthur C. Clark twist.  However, the simple fact is that I'm not sure it was all that enjoyable with the implied rape and misogyny.  Not to mention, the fact that Jacob Taylor (one of the most progressive black characters in video games) gets saddled with a father who ends up being the savage Jungle King.

It's pretty troubling to me.

I think I'll turn to Colin Farrell to sum up this post:

[Mariquis]

I don't think it had to do anything with racism. Technically it had to do with misogyny (as that was part of Jacob's father's motivation --subjugating the women) but not in the sense that it was an expression of Bioware's inherent misogyny, no. I'm honestly really glad they included something like this. When I realized what was going on (when I walked into the camp and they pointed out that there were only women) I was actually disturbed for a bit. I liked that there was a departure from the.. disney-ish portray of good and evil, and that it actually dealt with some distressing issues.

[Alamar2078]

I think the game clearly pointed out the behaviour as "bad". Just because some really terrible things happened doesn't mean the game writers are promoting this.



I just wish there were more direct "shoot the B@sterd" sorts of options.

[SL22]

It's amazing what people think when they stop looking at the person but instead what colour they are.

[Invalidcode]

SL22 wrote...

It's amazing what people think when they stop looking at the person but instead what colour they are.

And yet those are the one calling other racist.

[Willowhugger]

Just pointing out the way some of it might come off.  It was a bit jarring as a contrast.

Modifié par Willowhugger, 19 février 2010 - 05:43 .

[Gill Kaiser]

You must really be on the lookout for racism, then... because I didn't see any.

[InvaderErl]

I don't really see the need to attack the OP on this. Even if you disagree with his interpretation its not as if he came screaming OH MY LORD BIOWARE HATES TEH BLACK PEOPLEZ.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
If someone attacks people because they have a certain skin color/DNA then it is simply a crime.

Absolutely incorrect, if I specifically attack people because of their perceived race or ethnicity, I'm quite obviously a racist. That's like saying genocide is only a concept and if an african rebel army decides to kill a certain ethnicity, they're just war criminals and not starting a genocidal campaign.

Sorry, but while the justification for racism exists in perception, the action is very much real. Next you're going to tell me that misogyny isn't real.

[Johannicus]

I see you talk about racism from a human perspective..

As in this game there are more races than humans.

What about all robots are slaves to the other sentient races? Geth is the only exeption. But they are cannon fodder you gun down without thinking because the Alliance/Cerberus told you they are evil. Lucky for the Geth you found Legion..

Krogan got treated with a genophage by the Turians and Salarians!!

Reapers think they are above all and kill everyone else every 50k years to prove it.

TIM wants the human race to be like the reapers but rule the others instead of wiping them.

Im sure you wouldnt complain if Jacob was another race.

[Koomaa]

anyone else think Jacob looks like Kanye West?

[Willowhugger]

InvaderErl wrote...

I don't really see the need to attack the OP on this. Even if you disagree with his interpretation its not as if he came screaming OH MY LORD BIOWARE HATES TEH BLACK PEOPLEZ.

I'm not thin skinned.  I knew by starting this post, people would question if I was being oversensitive.  I don't think Bioware is a bunch of racists or sexists, I do wonder if the adventure is using a discredited storytelling trope set, though, which relies a little too much on early 20th century stereotypes.  Also, I wonder if any female or black gamers may have found the portrayal offensive.

In any case, I'm just a bit upset given that Jacob is one of the few black heroes in gaming.

Modifié par Willowhugger, 19 février 2010 - 05:48 .

[Johannicus]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

I didn't like the quest over all. I hoped ME2 would let us land on Earth. Jacob's loyalty quest could have been an opportunity for that, but they went with the desert island scenario.

In addition, Captain Taylor's decisions don't reflect on his son. You can only complete the mission by having him put in jail, or by letting him commit suicide. There is no option to help him escape.

You can also let him get killed by the savages(neutral)

[sergio71785]

I understand how you might find the thought of what that guy/his officers did with the women disturbing, but racism? That's completely off.