120 réponses à ce sujet

[Al-the-Catman]

Racism aside, the mission itself was full of big plot holes/over sights: the security bots & heat clip guns only happened right after the events of ME1, which was roughly 2 yrs; they were on that planet for 8-10 yrs before these things came into place.

[KainrycKarr]

Willowhugger wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

I don't really see the need to attack the OP on this. Even if you disagree with his interpretation its not as if he came screaming OH MY LORD BIOWARE HATES TEH BLACK PEOPLEZ.

I'm not thin skinned.  I knew by starting this post, people would question if I was being oversensitive.  I don't think Bioware is a bunch of racists or sexists, I do wonder if the adventure is using a discredited storytelling trope set, though, which relies a little too much on early 20th century stereotypes.  Also, I wonder if any female or black gamers may have found the portrayal offensive.

In any case, I'm just a bit upset given that Jacob is one of the few black heroes in gaming.

Any time a "minority" is seen in a negative fashion, someone can claim it's racist.

It is up to the individual to stop caring about the skin color.

When people see things like this and they AREN'T immediately drawn to the connection of  black guy - bad stuff happening, that is when stereotypes and whatnot will end.

It is what it is - a guy that didn't handle his situation  properly, and took it for a tragic turn for the worst.

It is the viewer, who makes it racist.

Do you see the "villain" as a black guy, or do you see him as a guy?

[Invalidcode]

In any case, I'm just a bit upset given that Jacob is one of the few black heroes in gaming.

Why would you get upset? Why would the skin color of video game heros matters?

[Ileanos07]

Willowhugger wrote...

Did anyone else find this adventure to be a trifle uncomfortable?  I very much enjoyed the adventure.  It's a classic Apocalypse Now meets Lord of the Flies style adventure with an Arthur C. Clark twist.  However, the simple fact is that I'm not sure it was all that enjoyable with the implied rape and misogyny.  Not to mention, the fact that Jacob Taylor (one of the most progressive black characters in video games) gets saddled with a father who ends up being the savage Jungle King.

It's pretty troubling to me.

Maybe you pay too much atention to skin color. You know, I never tought about this mission as racist one... It didnt even get to my mind, that Jacob and his father are black guys. They are just humans for me, no matter what.

[Johannicus]

Willowhugger wrote...


In any case, I'm just a bit upset given that Jacob is one of the few black heroes in gaming.

The latest AvP game has a black hero. Personaly I dont spend much time thinking about it. But as someone stated Im also european so its a diffrent way of thinking in a way. But you can play as a black shepard and make him the ultimate hero if you think its needed. When I say you I dont mean the original poster I mean ppl in general..

And as I stated in an earlier post, cant see why focus on the human racism when there are clearly lots of situations of "racism" in the ME universe..

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Invalidcode wrote...

In any case, I'm just a bit upset given that Jacob is one of the few black heroes in gaming.

Why would you get upset? Why would the skin color of video game heros matters?

To be honest, I'm on the side that too many characters in any form of media are stereotypes and if anything, are negative stereotypes.

With that said, I'm not upset that Jacob is one of the few positive black characters (and a hero even) in gaming. Mass Effect shows plenty of positive black characters honestly, Gianna, Capt. Anderson, etc. 

[Al-the-Catman]

I see the "villian" as a bad human, besides "all you humans are racist"!  1 big part about the ME universe is species interaction; each has a general sterotype, like any sci-fi/fantasy universe.  Some fit the sterotype to a T while others are completely different that what 1 would think typical of their species' reputation.

[Thompson family]

Willowhugger wrote...

Not to mention, the fact that Jacob Taylor (one of the most progressive black characters in video games) gets saddled with a father who ends up being the savage Jungle King.

It's pretty troubling to me.

That one jarred me too. Not being black, I don't have the right perspective to comment fully. I'll leave it at saying that Taylor's character rose above and that he's the "jungle king's" most unsparing critic.

[CajunRexShepard]

Would it have made the actions any less evil and wrong had the captain been white, or asian, or female, or non-human? Certainly not (I hope)... That would eliminate it as a racism issue and more of an extreme set of moral shortcomings. I'd have condemned cap'n Taylor no matter what color, sex, and race he was for that kind of thing. His son did too, endearing himself as a pillar of humanity, showing us as players (again, I hope) that heroism does not know color or gender (even though all my sheps are males thus far)... and neither does villainy.

[smudboy]

I thought Jacob's loyalty mission was the worst out of them all.  For a father he clearly doesn't care about, why would this even distract him?

Nevermind the fact that it was 8 years ago, and somehow everyone is using thermal clips which didn't exist yet (which haven't run out), all 3 mech types which also didn't exist back then (which are still working), and the fact that the beacon is right next to the ship/camp and no one had any basic sense to repair it before eating the poisoned food?  Or how there was that much preserved food reserves and only Captain Laylor got to horde it?

"No it's all mine and I'll ration it out, but I won't.  In the meantime, everyone else can eat the poisoned food."

That'd be complete and utter mutiny before he gets to start another sentence.

It just sounds completely ridiculous.  It might have been possible, if the writer planned it out a bit better.  The details that they provided didn't make a whole lot of sense in explaining how this community survived without proper agriculture or protein (let alone started worshipping pagan idols, accepting female slaves, and why the "hunters" popped up in the last year.)

[Invalidcode]

"No it's all mine and I'll ration it out, but I won't. In the meantime, everyone else can eat the poisoned food."



That'd be complete and utter mutiny before he gets to start another sentence.

It was exactly what happened, Taylor and other officers forces other to eat the poisoned food and used lethal force/physical abuse whoever tried to oppose.

[Al-the-Catman]

smudboy wrote...

I thought Jacob's loyalty mission was the worst out of them all.  For a father he clearly doesn't care about, why would this even distract him?

Nevermind the fact that it was 8 years ago, and somehow everyone is using thermal clips which didn't exist yet (which haven't run out), all 3 mech types which also didn't exist back then (which are still working), and the fact that the beacon is right next to the ship/camp and no one had any basic sense to repair it before eating the poisoned food?  Or how there was that much preserved food reserves and only Captain Laylor got to horde it?

"No it's all mine and I'll ration it out, but I won't.  In the meantime, everyone else can eat the poisoned food."

That'd be complete and utter mutiny before he gets to start another sentence.

It just sounds completely ridiculous.  It might have been possible, if the writer planned it out a bit better.  The details that they provided didn't make a whole lot of sense in explaining how this community survived without proper agriculture or protein (let alone started worshipping pagan idols, accepting female slaves, and why the "hunters" popped up in the last year.)

Completely agree w/ all your points; the holes of the background story for this mission seem to outweigh the main plot, thus the mission as a whole seems to greatly weakened by its faults.

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

cronshaw8 wrote...

So anytime a black person is portrayed negatively that is racist? I understand your discomfort, but i'd argue the positive portrayal of Jacob far outweighs the negative portrayal of his father. Plus nothing his father does is in any way tied explicitly or implicitly to his race. BioWare seems like a pretty savy company, i would be surprised if they didn't have this exact conversation. The rape thing, yeah that was messed up. but it was supposed to be. If you were disgusted with Jacob's father then BioWare did their job. Also something to consider is the fact that BioWare is a Canadian company. I'm not sure if you are American (i am) but my impression is that Canada is much closer to Europe as far as racial issues are concerened. They tend to be a little less careful about stuff because their culture does not carry the same racial baggage as the US. Anyway the fact that a video game can give rise to this type of discussion is a good thing i think.

I am Canadian and your right we aren't so nerottic about of being offensive since we have a multicultural ideology where everyone is canadian and their own culture, where as the US has the melting pot idea where your only American.
Also the parallels between the Quarians and the Geth in the game to the Israel/Paiestine issue in todays world was brave on Biowares part given the hatred and fanaticism that topic produces

[Mariquis]

Willowhugger wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

I don't really see the need to attack the OP on this. Even if you disagree with his interpretation its not as if he came screaming OH MY LORD BIOWARE HATES TEH BLACK PEOPLEZ.

I'm not thin skinned.  I knew by starting this post, people would question if I was being oversensitive.  I don't think Bioware is a bunch of racists or sexists, I do wonder if the adventure is using a discredited storytelling trope set, though, which relies a little too much on early 20th century stereotypes.  Also, I wonder if any female or black gamers may have found the portrayal offensive.

In any case, I'm just a bit upset given that Jacob is one of the few black heroes in gaming.

I think you would have to be pretty sensitive to be offended by it.  I am a female and I thought it was one of the more interesting side missions, if only because it dealt with more mature/disturbing material than the usual shoot-em-outs.  I would have appreciated more missions of this type (obviously dealing with more subject matter than just this) to toss things up a bit from the usual mercs--let's killem!  My only issue with it was that Jacob didn't really react to it at all once back on the Normandy/you couldn't discuss it with him, I think that would have fleshed out his character more.

[Naltair]

I found the mission to be well done, it was a terrible situation; but I didn't find it overtly racist just disturbing.

[Valmy]

Willowhugger wrote...

Not to mention, the fact that Jacob Taylor (one of the most progressive black characters in video games) gets saddled with a father who ends up being the savage Jungle King.

It's pretty troubling to me.

I guess I don't see how the failings of Jacob's father, which only happened under great stress, reflect badly on him.  After all most of the characters in the Mass Effect universe have terrible fathers.  Even the good fathers, like Garrus' and Tali's, still scar their children somehow.

[Hellebore5000]

No blood for aliens! Remember Shanxi!



Good grief this thread is silly

[noobzor99]

smudboy wrote...
Nevermind the fact that it was 8 years ago, and somehow everyone is using thermal clips which didn't exist yet (which haven't run out), all 3 mech types which also didn't exist back then (which are still working),

I think, in a universe where you accept a backwards step in technology, a few gameplay>story moments should be acceptable

smudboy wrote...
and the fact that the beacon is right next to the ship/camp and no one had any basic sense to repair it before eating the poisoned food?  Or how there was that much preserved food reserves and only Captain Laylor got to horde it?

"No it's all mine and I'll ration it out, but I won't.  In the meantime, everyone else can eat the poisoned food."

That'd be complete and utter mutiny before he gets to start another sentence.

It is explained that the officers horded the food and shot anyone who resisted.


I thought it was an interesting litte mission.  The music was perfect, too.  I didn't see it as racist though.  Just a father/son conflict.

[tmp7704]

Willowhugger wrote...

Not to mention, the fact that Jacob Taylor (one of the most progressive black characters in video games) gets saddled with a father who ends up being the savage Jungle King.

Something to keep on mind, Jacob's father is the only one the player gets to face but that's only because "in the end he was the one with the mechs". The whole setup was created by group of the ship officers, not one individual.

Also, given Jacob himself is clearly portrayed as positive character and you also have David Anderson there ... having one black character who doesn't turn out to be complete paragon of justice didn't really seem like something worth focusing on.

[KingusJamus]

OMG, Joker is a cripple? Racist!



OMG, Kelly likes boys, girls, and aliens? Racist!



OMG, the Elcor on Omega is smoking a cigar? Racist!

[Remaix]

Willowhugger wrote...

Did anyone else find this adventure to be a trifle uncomfortable?  I very much enjoyed the adventure.  It's a classic Apocalypse Now meets Lord of the Flies style adventure with an Arthur C. Clark twist.  However, the simple fact is that I'm not sure it was all that enjoyable with the implied rape and misogyny.  Not to mention, the fact that Jacob Taylor (one of the most progressive black characters in video games) gets saddled with a father who ends up being the savage Jungle King.

It's pretty troubling to me.

...good for you. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll resist the urge to facepalm.

[Count Viceroy]

KingusJamus wrote...

OMG, Joker is a cripple? Racist!

OMG, Kelly likes boys, girls, and aliens? Racist!

OMG, the Elcor on Omega is smoking a cigar? Racist!

You humans are all racist!

[challenger18]

I don't see how Jacob's loyalty mission was supposed to be racist. Is there a stereotype running around about black people being "Jungle Kings"?

[skyferret]

As a female? Not really. Jack's paragon romance icked me out much more, but that's a different thing. This particular mission, it was just a bit of added realism to what would probably happen.

I don't think Jacob is degraded at all by his father's actions; he's his own person and knows right from wrong, disowns his dad. Doesn't seem racist to me, personally.