Which is better and why? and does someone have a damage break down between reave and warp including upgrades? I've heard Reave pulls ahead due to the Biotic Duration upgrade but I don't know if thats proven, any help guys?
Heavy or Area Reave? or Warp?
Débuté par
Koomaa
, févr. 19 2010 05:29
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#2
Posté 19 février 2010 - 05:33
JaegerBane
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Koomaa wrote...
Which is better and why? and does someone have a damage break down between reave and warp including upgrades? I've heard Reave pulls ahead due to the Biotic Duration upgrade but I don't know if thats proven, any help guys?
Well, by definition the Duration upgrade helps. Warp and Reave do the same amount of total damage up to Rank 3. Heavy Warp does marginally less damage than Heavy Reave, (200 vs 220) but it's primarily the healing and enemy incapacitation that pull Reave ahead. Since Reave is a duration power and Warp is not, It benefits because it ends up dealing an extra bit of damage.
Frankly I've found Area Reave is preferable, as it offers a powerful AoE damage attack that heals and crowd controls on organics.
#4
Posté 19 février 2010 - 05:45
Atmosfear3
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Area is almost always better than heavy, for any skill.
#5
Posté 19 février 2010 - 05:51
padaE
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I always take Heavy over Area. Think it's more useful.
#6
Posté 19 février 2010 - 05:52
JaegerBane
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Atmosfear3 wrote...
Area is almost always better than heavy, for any skill.
QFT. The only time I've found Heavy to be preferable is on Charge, purely because of the bullet-time/Shield boost awesomeness.
#7
Posté 19 février 2010 - 05:53
JaegerBane
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padaE wrote...
I prefer Warp
The only reason someone would use Warp over Reave is if they want to take another bonus power (particularly Dominate, which Warp oddly synergises with). Reave packs more punch, has more effects, and has more flexibility, both in it's operation and it's evolutions.
#8
Posté 19 février 2010 - 05:55
Varenus Luckmann
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I prefer Warp, if for no other reason than that they fullfill roughly the same roles. It allows me to take Dominate (or something else) instead.
And playing on Insanity, I prefer heavy to area-effects, simply because enemies tend to be defended. This is of course not true of Area Reave, since the whole point behind it is to strip defenses. So for Reave, go Area.
And playing on Insanity, I prefer heavy to area-effects, simply because enemies tend to be defended. This is of course not true of Area Reave, since the whole point behind it is to strip defenses. So for Reave, go Area.
#9
Posté 19 février 2010 - 05:56
padaE
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.JaegerBane wrote...
padaE wrote...
I prefer Warp
The only reason someone would use Warp over Reave is if they want to take another bonus power (particularly Dominate, which Warp oddly synergises with). Reave packs more punch, has more effects, and has more flexibility, both in it's operation and it's evolutions.
This would be one reason, I only take AP ammo as bonus power.
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And as the first goal of both power, as least for me, is to take down barriers/armor, I prefer Warp. Even because Its useful to detonate other biotic power, such as pull.
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My Adept is pretty much a machine gun of pulls and warps.
#10
Posté 19 février 2010 - 05:58
gr00grams
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Depends on difficulty, and the person learining the skill.
In Hardcore+ modes, heavy is the clear winner. I have tried the areas, and they just don't cut it in these modes for two reasons;
1. They dont deal enough damage even with upgrades.
2. You almost never 'AoE' in hardcore+ modes. You focus on single targets at a time.
Squadmates however, often benefit from area mods, as they sometimes reduce the cooldown.
However, Reave is probably better on Samara as heavy.
Just completing playthrough 6 or so on insanity with a soldier, I gave Area Reave a go with Samara. Nowhere near enough damage. She couldn't even strip a barrier anymore in one shot, which was something I really missed compared to my other chars that had her with heavy.
In my humble opinion, in modes lower than hardcore, area is great. Above, and I entreat you to never take area modifications. The heavy mods are a must. Especially in insanity+.
In Hardcore+ modes, heavy is the clear winner. I have tried the areas, and they just don't cut it in these modes for two reasons;
1. They dont deal enough damage even with upgrades.
2. You almost never 'AoE' in hardcore+ modes. You focus on single targets at a time.
Squadmates however, often benefit from area mods, as they sometimes reduce the cooldown.
However, Reave is probably better on Samara as heavy.
Just completing playthrough 6 or so on insanity with a soldier, I gave Area Reave a go with Samara. Nowhere near enough damage. She couldn't even strip a barrier anymore in one shot, which was something I really missed compared to my other chars that had her with heavy.
In my humble opinion, in modes lower than hardcore, area is great. Above, and I entreat you to never take area modifications. The heavy mods are a must. Especially in insanity+.
#11
Posté 19 février 2010 - 05:59
RattleSnake08
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I have done both and like Area more due to you being able to attack or take down mulitple targets.
#12
Posté 19 février 2010 - 06:03
padaE
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.However, Reave is probably better on Samara as heavy.
Just completing playthrough 6 or so on insanity with a soldier, I gave Area Reave a go with Samara. Nowhere near enough damage. She couldn't even strip a barrier anymore in one shot, which was something I really missed compared to my other chars that had her with heavy.
In my humble opinion, in modes lower than hardcore, area is great. Above, and I entreat you to never take area modifications. The heavy mods are a must. Especially in insanity+.
I agree. This is how I think.
#13
Posté 19 février 2010 - 06:08
SmilingMirror
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eh, I changed my mind alot about heavy reave now that i'm playing with it more. Its not so bad. it still lacks an aoe but the stun time is pretty awesome.
If you know how to curve Warp its way more useful long range. I pretty much have to use overload and pistols for things off in a distance if i choose reave.
If you know how to curve Warp its way more useful long range. I pretty much have to use overload and pistols for things off in a distance if i choose reave.
Modifié par SmilingMirror, 19 février 2010 - 06:18 .
#14
Posté 19 février 2010 - 06:10
davidshooter
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I agree with the above posters too.
If you plan on playing on the harder difficulties I think heavy is almost always superior for Shep.
If you plan on playing on the harder difficulties I think heavy is almost always superior for Shep.
#15
Posté 19 février 2010 - 06:22
Roxlimn
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I think it's limiting to always only do one and not another. Having played a few hours on Hardcore, I think that both Heavy and Unstable Warp have uses. Heavy is, of course, better for stripping defenses, but towards the end of the game, it's a little overkill on the mooks. The added area of Unstable from Heavy Warp is significant, IMO, since it makes the Warp easier to deploy in terms of stripping defenses from many opponents at once.
Of course, having both the Area version and the Heavy version in a single team allows you greater flexibility. As for Reave - the cooldown isn't enough that you can spam it, and the radius is too small to reliably affect that many targets. I think it's better as Heavy for use in defense stripping quickly.
Of course, having both the Area version and the Heavy version in a single team allows you greater flexibility. As for Reave - the cooldown isn't enough that you can spam it, and the radius is too small to reliably affect that many targets. I think it's better as Heavy for use in defense stripping quickly.
#16
Posté 19 février 2010 - 07:05
JaegerBane
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SmilingMirror wrote...
eh, I changed my mind alot about heavy reave now that i'm playing with it more. Its not so bad. it still lacks an aoe but the stun time is pretty awesome.
If you know how to curve Warp its way more useful long range. I pretty much have to use overload and pistols for things off in a distance if i choose reave.
Just wait until they pop out to shoot. Reave hits instantly.
#17
Posté 19 février 2010 - 08:15
Atmosfear3
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Heavy is not superior to area, not by a long shot. This is at least true for squadmates. For Shepard, due to the lower [universal] cooldown, heavy or area is simply based upon preference.
Lets compare the differences for two of the most popular skills; Warp and Reave
Warp (4/4)
Heavy: Recharge Time: 6.00s (Shepard); 12.00s (Others), 200 damage, 400 vs barrier
Area: Recharge Time: 6.00s (Shepard); 9.00s (Others), 160 damage, 320 vs barrier
Reave (4/4)
Heavy: Recharge Time: 6.00s (Shepard); 12.00s (Others), 40.00 points per second for 5.50 seconds (220 total vs health, 440 vs barrier/armor instantly)
Area: Recharge Time: 6.00s (Shepard); 12.00s (Others), Damage: 40.00 points per second for 4.00 seconds (160 total vs health, 320 vs barrier/armor instantly)
Looking at the above, assuming versus one target that has barrier/armor, its obvious that heavy is better. However, this game is rarely a battle of 3v1 unless the last survivor of an ambush is still alive or the single target is a YMIR mech. Enemy targets are always scrambling about, often bunching together. One area warp/reave does the job of what a single heavy would do and in less time, easily doubling [or more] the effective damage you've just done to the targets barrier/armor the more targets you've affected. If simply against one resilient target, could it really hurt to have a shorter cooldown on your skill?
Lets compare the differences for two of the most popular skills; Warp and Reave
Warp (4/4)
Heavy: Recharge Time: 6.00s (Shepard); 12.00s (Others), 200 damage, 400 vs barrier
Area: Recharge Time: 6.00s (Shepard); 9.00s (Others), 160 damage, 320 vs barrier
Reave (4/4)
Heavy: Recharge Time: 6.00s (Shepard); 12.00s (Others), 40.00 points per second for 5.50 seconds (220 total vs health, 440 vs barrier/armor instantly)
Area: Recharge Time: 6.00s (Shepard); 12.00s (Others), Damage: 40.00 points per second for 4.00 seconds (160 total vs health, 320 vs barrier/armor instantly)
Looking at the above, assuming versus one target that has barrier/armor, its obvious that heavy is better. However, this game is rarely a battle of 3v1 unless the last survivor of an ambush is still alive or the single target is a YMIR mech. Enemy targets are always scrambling about, often bunching together. One area warp/reave does the job of what a single heavy would do and in less time, easily doubling [or more] the effective damage you've just done to the targets barrier/armor the more targets you've affected. If simply against one resilient target, could it really hurt to have a shorter cooldown on your skill?
#18
Posté 19 février 2010 - 08:36
Kurupt87
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if you have warp then you shouldn't really consider reave, as it does the exact same job slightly better, except for the unstable warp explosion which, if you're an adept, should be your bread and butter ability(7m radius is HUGE). haven't played a great deal of sentinel/adept but i found i benefitted more from having warp ammo than replacing warp with reave or overload with energy drain.
other classes are better suited to picking reave imo, and i think it can be used to detonate a warp from a squaddie, which is always nice.
other classes are better suited to picking reave imo, and i think it can be used to detonate a warp from a squaddie, which is always nice.
#19
Posté 19 février 2010 - 08:43
gr00grams
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Atmosfear3 wrote...
Heavy is not superior to area, not by a long shot. This is at least true for squadmates. For Shepard, due to the lower [universal] cooldown, heavy or area is simply based upon preference.
Lets compare the differences for two of the most popular skills; Warp and Reave
Warp (4/4)
Heavy: Recharge Time: 6.00s (Shepard); 12.00s (Others), 200 damage, 400 vs barrier
Area: Recharge Time: 6.00s (Shepard); 9.00s (Others), 160 damage, 320 vs barrier
Reave (4/4)
Heavy: Recharge Time: 6.00s (Shepard); 12.00s (Others), 40.00 points per second for 5.50 seconds (220 total vs health, 440 vs barrier/armor instantly)
Area: Recharge Time: 6.00s (Shepard); 12.00s (Others), Damage: 40.00 points per second for 4.00 seconds (160 total vs health, 320 vs barrier/armor instantly)
Looking at the above, assuming versus one target that has barrier/armor, its obvious that heavy is better. However, this game is rarely a battle of 3v1 unless the last survivor of an ambush is still alive or the single target is a YMIR mech. Enemy targets are always scrambling about, often bunching together. One area warp/reave does the job of what a single heavy would do and in less time, easily doubling [or more] the effective damage you've just done to the targets barrier/armor the more targets you've affected. If simply against one resilient target, could it really hurt to have a shorter cooldown on your skill?
Trust me, I have done all this too, and still say in higher difficulty modes that heavy is almost always better.
Very rarely in insanity am I ever focused on more than one enemy at a time, and enemies bunching up... I don't know if we are playing the same game.
I have tried pretty much every scenario etc, and in the end always go back to the damage mods.
Even class specializations, in the end, I always go back to the one that deals more damage.
i.e. Soldier gets 'commando' and adept gets 'nemesis' etc.
Below insanity, I will however totally agree, as damage isn't a main factor, but in insanity I take every damage possibility I can get. It's what allows you to dominate that mode.
You present a good case, and yes I do usually give squadies the area mods for flavour, but we'll have to 'agree to disagree'
Cheers,
#20
Posté 19 février 2010 - 08:51
SmilingMirror
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Yeah, but that can be a waste of time. its best to spam your abilities as fast as possible.JaegerBane wrote...
SmilingMirror wrote...
eh, I changed my mind alot about heavy reave now that i'm playing with it more. Its not so bad. it still lacks an aoe but the stun time is pretty awesome.
If you know how to curve Warp its way more useful long range. I pretty much have to use overload and pistols for things off in a distance if i choose reave.
Just wait until they pop out to shoot. Reave hits instantly.
Modifié par SmilingMirror, 19 février 2010 - 08:52 .
#21
Posté 19 février 2010 - 08:55
Roxlimn
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gr00grams:
There IS a nice medium between all-damage and all-non-damage, you know. I specced my Adept with Nemesis and Dragon Armor for the bonuses to damage, then took Unstable Warp to spread that damage around. Worked well enough, though I haven't actually gone through the game start to finish on Insanity with it.
For early game, I agree that Heavy is the way to go because it's easier to get to the threshold of removing defenses in one shot with your powers. However, as you progress, having more damage than that threshold is often not functionally better, in which case it may be better to spec it out for more area instead.
There IS a nice medium between all-damage and all-non-damage, you know. I specced my Adept with Nemesis and Dragon Armor for the bonuses to damage, then took Unstable Warp to spread that damage around. Worked well enough, though I haven't actually gone through the game start to finish on Insanity with it.
For early game, I agree that Heavy is the way to go because it's easier to get to the threshold of removing defenses in one shot with your powers. However, as you progress, having more damage than that threshold is often not functionally better, in which case it may be better to spec it out for more area instead.
#22
Posté 19 février 2010 - 09:03
gr00grams
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Like I say, we'll have to agree to disagree on insanity, especially insanity+
#23
Posté 19 février 2010 - 09:14
BanditGR
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I'm with gr00grams on this one. Now, I'm not going to say that enemies don't bunch up on insanity, but I find it really hard to think of a situation where an AoE version of either Warp or Reave will affect more than 2 of them, unless it's perfectly timed. Pretty situational, in my very humble opinion. I also personally consider, focusing on single enemies to be a bit more optimal and thus (usually) prefer the heavy versions, unless we are talking about a squad mate (usually I may have an Area Warp or Reave on either Miranda or Samara).
#24
Posté 19 février 2010 - 09:16
gr00grams
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Yeah I give miranda/squadies the areas etc too, as the cooldown reduction is a very fair trade off.
That is actually the consideration though, cooldown vs power. It's never about the AoE.
That is actually the consideration though, cooldown vs power. It's never about the AoE.
#25
Posté 19 février 2010 - 10:26
JaegerBane
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SmilingMirror wrote...
Yeah, but that can be a waste of time. its best to spam your abilities as fast as possible.JaegerBane wrote...
SmilingMirror wrote...
eh, I changed my mind alot about heavy reave now that i'm playing with it more. Its not so bad. it still lacks an aoe but the stun time is pretty awesome.
If you know how to curve Warp its way more useful long range. I pretty much have to use overload and pistols for things off in a distance if i choose reave.
Just wait until they pop out to shoot. Reave hits instantly.
I'm not really sure whether waiting for an enemy to pop his head up is a 'waste of time' to be concerned with. I don't actually ever remember waiting longer than 2 seconds for an enemy to appear. Is that delay *really* the much of an issue? Seriously? Are your biotics even recharged by that point?
