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Heavy or Area Reave? or Warp?


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#26
SmilingMirror

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JaegerBane wrote...

SmilingMirror wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

SmilingMirror wrote...

eh, I changed my mind alot about heavy reave now that i'm playing with it more. Its not so bad. it still lacks an aoe but the stun time is pretty awesome.

If you know how to curve Warp its way more useful long range. I pretty much have to use overload and pistols for things off in a distance if i choose reave.


Just wait until they pop out to shoot. Reave hits instantly.

Yeah, but that can be a waste of time. its best to spam your abilities as fast as possible.



:blink:

I'm not really sure whether waiting for an enemy to pop his head up is a 'waste of time' to be concerned with. I don't actually ever remember waiting longer than 2 seconds for an enemy to appear. Is that delay *really* the much of an issue? Seriously? Are your biotics even recharged by that point?

It takes 4 seconds for my Warp or Reave to recharge. Some enemies let their teammates do all the work or keep ducking back under cover.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 19 février 2010 - 10:37 .


#27
Atmosfear3

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After a recent discovery on my 5th playthrough (what an oversight huh?), I've come to a conclusion regarding Warp.

Firstly, it depends greatly upon whether Shepard has it him/herself and/or the teammates you choose to bring with you.

For Shepard, Heavy Warp is always the best due to the fact that the cooldown is 6sec across all ranks. I was under the misconception that Unstable Warp allowed you to warp multiple enemies that are close together but that was actually wrong. Unstable Warp simply increases the detonation radius of Warp after you've applied biotics to your targets (pull, dominate, etc).

For teammates with Warp, I suppose it will come down mostly to preference, more specifically which teammates you choose to bring and what class Shepard is. Jacob/Samara/Jack and Miranda/Thane are viable combos you can take to achieve biotic combos for Shepards that are not Sentinels/Adepts. Once you've figured out which pairs of teammates to take, it really comes down to whether you want a 9sec or 12sec CD Warp. Either evolution achieves the same result, just with differing effects.

#28
akintu

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JaegerBane wrote...

SmilingMirror wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

SmilingMirror wrote...

eh, I changed my mind alot about heavy reave now that i'm playing with it more. Its not so bad. it still lacks an aoe but the stun time is pretty awesome.

If you know how to curve Warp its way more useful long range. I pretty much have to use overload and pistols for things off in a distance if i choose reave.


Just wait until they pop out to shoot. Reave hits instantly.

Yeah, but that can be a waste of time. its best to spam your abilities as fast as possible.



:blink:

I'm not really sure whether waiting for an enemy to pop his head up is a 'waste of time' to be concerned with. I don't actually ever remember waiting longer than 2 seconds for an enemy to appear. Is that delay *really* the much of an issue? Seriously? Are your biotics even recharged by that point?


Its not that big of a deal, but when we're discussing 440 damage vs 400, it actually makes a difference.  If Warp (at 400 every 6 seconds) does 4000 damage in a minute, and Reave does 4400 damage in a minute, if you delay your Reave by even one second waiting for an enemy to pop out of cover, your per minute damage has dropped to 3770.  This is why I consider Warp to be superior to Reave on any class that has Warp.  Warp can pretty much be fired off the instant your cooldown is up.  Reave, mostly, but there will be plenty of times you just can't.

#29
DragoonKain3

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 Warp on Shephard, Heavy is the correct choice. 5m AoE blast is large enough that there is no reason why you should take unstable, when their CDs are the same. +2m Warp Explosion blast just isn't enticing enough to sacrifice +25% damage.

On teammates though, I'd take the smaller cooldown on Warp. 25% reduction in CD is effectively a 33% increase in DPS, so at that point that 160 damage unstable warp does more DPS than Heavy. Note that even with Warp Explosion, most enemies don't die in one shot at full health in insanity with Heavy Warp.


Reave on anyone though, Area all the way. It's powerful enough (almost as strong as Heavy Warp against minions) that it will strip any minion's armor within one shot even in insanity, which makes it immensely useful when a horde of melee starts rushing you. Fact that it CCs when targeted against organic health is just gravy; main purpose is to AoE and help keep you alive so that you can keep firing your gun. With instant travel time, I can fire it out of cover even at 1/3 health and still live to keep firing my gun until the next CD, which makes it a godsend to significantly lower the time you spend fighting 'trash' battles.

And really now, Area Reave will outdps ANY single target skill assuming you can get it to hit more than 1 target. And with its instant travel time and 3m blast, it ain't that hard. As for cover, fact that you have AoE means you actually have some cover penetration; not like you need it anyways, because in insanity, vast majority of the time the enemy is out of cover trying to shoot your butt to oblivion.

As for single target bosses, I've come to conclusion that Reave actually SUCKS against them. This is because they seem to enjoy further duration resistances than normal ON TOP of Insanity duration resistance, thus offering you lower damage on single targets that matter.

So really, there is no point in taking Heavy Reave. It's supposed to be good against single tragets, but heavy warp already does a comparable if not better job already. Probably the only upside to it is that it offers you 90 extra health per single target than Area Reave, but considering its single target, many times you won't even have a target thats down to health to actually take advantage of it. With Area, you can Reave a target on health and maybe catch his friend's armor, setting up another target of reave on next CD.


As for Reave vs Warp, then it depends on class. And considering there's only two classes with Warp, I'll talk about them in detail. Note that its not really a question of Reave vs Warp, as it is a question of Reave vs another skill.

For Adept, I am of the opinion that there is no other skill better than Area Reave. Fact is, most enemies this time around are organics (unlike in ME1 where majority were synthetics), and around half the synthetics use armor anyway. Main antagonist targets are organic as well, so vast majority of the time, you can put Area Reave to good use.

And when used correctly, you can have it keep you alive even at low health and even under fire, significantly increasing your overall dps because you don't have to hide behind cover for long periods of time. Which is a problem with Heavy Warp Ammo, as that extra damage is no good when you're sitting behind cover for more than half the time just because you can't take a hit. And unlike stuff like barrier, it allows you to go on the offensive with each power use and Reave still keeps you alive better, since you can recharge your health by 200+ points twice for every 1 barrier you can cast.

(Probably the only time Barrier and such is better is against single bosses, but the devs seem to give you more places for cover than usual during these times that I felt at no time I thought Barrier would've made a difference in that particular situation.)

You still want Heavy Warp though, because its still superior against sub-bosses and higher, warp explosion is your main weapon against synthetic health, and the fact that there really is nothing better to spend points on.


For Sentinel, it depends. Artillery Sentinels (ie. Guardians) have much more use for Area Reave, but NOT for the same reasons as the Adept. Reave is useful to Guardians because it gives them a much a needed Area CC against organics and AoE armor/barrier-killer, something that Sentinels sorely lack to be good artillery. Coupled with Area Overload which is CC against synthetics and AoE shield-killer, they can pretty much strip anyone's defenses and then proceed to make them useless once they hit health... all at  3m radius blasts! Also frees them up for a fifth skill, which usually is Heavy Throw to instakill some problematic enemies in ledges, a quick stun for others.

Assault Sentinels (ie. Raiders) have more to gain by using Warp Ammo for offense, as they let their guns do their talking. They need their global CD ready for Tech Armor anyways. since they're much more reliant on that for their survival due to their more in-your-face tactics.


tl;dr
Heavy Warp > Unstable Warp for Shepard. Opposite for teammates
Area Reave > Heavy Reave period
Area Reave > any bonus skill for Adept/Artillery Sentinels
Assault Sentinels should just stick to Heavy Warp

#30
Varenus Luckmann

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DragoonKain3 wrote...
[...]
Area Reave > any bonus skill for Adept/Artillery Sentinels
[...]

My Dominator Adept laughs at your conclusions.

#31
Varenus Luckmann

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DragoonKain3 wrote...
[...]
Area Reave > any bonus skill for Adept/Artillery Sentinels
[...]

My Dominator Adept laughs at your conclusions.

#32
DragoonKain3

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I can give you that Dominate is probably the one skill that keeps you alive the best in Insanity against organics as an Adept (haven't tried it as a Sentinel to be honest), as unlike ME1, ME2 has the AI take higher priority hitting people out of cover. Which is usually what the dominated usually end up being as they're in cover relative to you, but not relative to their friends.

That said, Dominate play takes so much more time to achieve the same effect (keep you alive), as the AI does not immediately switch targets (so you gotta wait until the dominated target gets aggro before shooting your gun), your CD is pretty much occupied keeping Dominate up (meaning that your DPS drops further), and most targets move slowly. So if you want to reposition closer to the enemy while keeping aggro on dominated target, the wait is excruciatingly painful if not downright frustrating, since you can't order your dominated target exactly where you want him to be.

Also, Reave can hit armored synthetics, so it has its uses even against them, especially when a bunch of Fenrir mechs start rushing you. Dominate becomes totally deadweight against them.

So overall, Area Reave is superior to Enhanced Dominate. For those who like to take it slow and safe though, Dominate is better for survival, but I personally like to blitz through 'trash' battles as quickly as possible, and Reave keeps you alive almost as good at maybe half the time to complete the mission. The ability to do AoE damage and CC at the same time, while shooting your gun nonstop just makes things that much quicker. 

#33
Foofad

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I used Area Reave on Shepard and Samara throughout the Collector base. It was a mobile rape wagon. I pretty much didn't even have to shoot. Nasty stuff. This was on Veteran so your results may vary on Hardcore +, but there it is.

#34
flatlander five

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I went with heavy on warp and reave (separate plays obviously) because the guarantee of more damage against one opponent was more important than the possible damage against several targets. Things like pull throw and shockwave make more sense as area effects. This is for my Shepard anyways.