162 réponses à ce sujet

[inversevideo]

Talogrungi wrote...

D4rk50ul808 wrote...

It was terrible on a few different levels.

1. Does it REALLY need to be that big? If I was trying to build a human Reaper why wouldn't I make it human sized in case I wanted to use it for infiltration and such. Also they made enough Reapers with the Protheans to darken the sky, yet it takes millions to make one human one?

Nope. Each Reaper is slightly different than the rest and the current prevaliing theory is that once every 50,000 years (or whatever the Reaper cycle is) they pick one worthy race and elevate it by creating a new Reaper in its imagine. It's also hypothesised that the Protheans were the only space-faring race during the last cycle and the Reapers (for whatever reason) found them unworthy/unsuitable for ascension.

This is my thought also.

In ME1 Sovereign said that each reaper was a nation unto itself.

So the way the Reapers 'reproduce' is to harvest the most dominant life form, converting the genetic material and combining it with synthetics, to create a synthesis of organic and machine. Or as Saren said, the strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither.

If Sovereign looked like a cuttlefish, it is only because the race that was harvested to create him, also looked like cuttlefish.

In the case of the Protheans, something about their genetic structure was unsuitable for the process.
So the Protheans were cleared out, harvested, to reset the 'board' as it were, and while they were not suitable for ascension to Reaper, they were useful as 'Collectors'.   Hmmm... Collectors, Keepers, I'm starting to see a bit of a pattern.

Modifié par inversevideo, 19 février 2010 - 09:51 .

[AntWrig]

Talogrungi wrote...

D4rk50ul808 wrote...

It was terrible on a few different levels.

1. Does it REALLY need to be that big? If I was trying to build a human Reaper why wouldn't I make it human sized in case I wanted to use it for infiltration and such. Also they made enough Reapers with the Protheans to darken the sky, yet it takes millions to make one human one?

Nope. Each Reaper is slightly different than the rest and the current prevaliing theory is that once every 50,000 years (or whatever the Reaper cycle is) they pick one worthy race and elevate it by creating a new Reaper in its imagine. It's also hypothesised that the Protheans were the only space-faring race during the last cycle and the Reapers (for whatever reason) found them unworthy/unsuitable for ascension.

No matter what you or other say. There is no justification in seeing a gigantic human looking robot. The comments regarding that it's suppose to be core of the ship is just absurd. The other Reaper ships show no signs of this. So, why are you all trying to justifiy a bad decision, that was made by Bioware.

Like I stated before, I would have rather seen a gigantic computer chip. Yet, I get a cliched T-1000 looking machine.

[Railstay]

Weskerr wrote...

Railstay wrote...

[

So why would the word "embryo" be used to describe the Human-Reaper?  By definition an embryo is a pre-infantile state of a creature that grows to full size.  Embryos aren't created then added onto another form to be complete.  Embryos are already complete -- they just haven't grown to full size yet.  So the wording, the size of the Reaper and the need for millions of more humans to complete it makes sense.  Also, EDI telling us that Reapers are grown using both organic and inorganic material, then also makes sense.  In order for the Human-Reaper to grow to full size, it would need more human material.

I think you're correct on all points except the embryo analogy. You're taking the comparison between the human Reaper and a human embryo too far. I think EDI makes this comparison so as to make it more understandable to Shepard (and the player) that the human Reaper is in a very early stage of development. That's the major similarity between the two. The major difference is that while human embryos are purely organic, Reapers are not. They are a fusion of organic and mechanical material. It's plausible that the completion of the human Reaper is dependent upon both organic growth and additions of machinal parts.

My point is that you can only take the embryo analogy so far before the similarities end.

Like I said again, the wording is very specific.  EDI doesn't draw an analogy.  She calls it an embryo, and we know that this is reliable knowledge because the Reaper IFF also gave her access to Reaper hardware/software.  If you ask her about her security protocols at the end of the game, she reveals that she has adapted to protect herself from Reaper viral attacks and penetrate Reaper firewalls because of the knowledge she gained through the IFF.  This is also how she can speak with authority on confirming a Reaper is present just through scans (in the Collector Base) and also talk about what a Reaper consists of.

Either way, she doesn't use words like "embryo-like".  If Reapers create themselves in the image of the race they harvest, then it makes sense that the process they use would also be consistent.  So the Human-Reaper would, for all intents and purposes, be an embryo that literally grows into full maturity rather than being added on.  Using organic and inorganic material both, of course, as you pointed out.

Also, if Reapers use "core" forms, the Illusive Man would've learned this from the derelict Reaper a long time ago.  For those who have in the past claimed that TIM knows about this "core" and simply witholds the information from Shepard, it would be pretty dumb to keep the galaxy's best hope in the dark about what would be the Reapers' greatest weakness.

Modifié par Railstay, 19 février 2010 - 10:08 .

[jkruse05]

I'm not going to vote here. I think the fight with an unfinished reaper was appropriate, but I think it would have been better if it didn't look like a giant Terminator, even just removing the head would have been enough. It just needed a different art direction, the Terminator image didn't fit. I wasn't dissapointed or anything, I just think it could have been better.

[Talogrungi]

AntWrig wrote...

No matter what you or other say. There is no justification in seeing a gigantic human looking robot. The comments regarding that it's suppose to be core of the ship is just absurd. The other Reaper ships show no signs of this. So, why are you all trying to justifiy a bad decision, that was made by Bioware.

Like I stated before, I would have rather seen a gigantic computer chip. Yet, I get a cliched T-1000 looking machine.

Is the concept art in the official CE art book "absurd" .. ? .. it shows the human reaper and how it "becomes" the cuttlefish-shaped Reaper. Page 16.

[Talogrungi]

Railstay wrote...

Either way, she doesn't use words like "embryo-like".  If Reapers create themselves in the image of the race they harvest, then it makes sense that the process they use would also be consistent.  So the Human-Reaper would, for all intents and purposes, be an embryo that literally grows into full maturity rather than being added on.  Using organic and inorganic material both, of course, as you pointed out.

Forgive me if I'm reading this incorrectly, but it seems you're making the argument that, because EDI described the human reaper as an embryo, that it would retain the same shape/structure when fully grown.

If so, that doesn't make sense.

[AntWrig]

Talogrungi wrote...

AntWrig wrote...

No matter what you or other say. There is no justification in seeing a gigantic human looking robot. The comments regarding that it's suppose to be core of the ship is just absurd. The other Reaper ships show no signs of this. So, why are you all trying to justifiy a bad decision, that was made by Bioware.

Like I stated before, I would have rather seen a gigantic computer chip. Yet, I get a cliched T-1000 looking machine.

Is the concept art in the official CE art book "absurd" .. ? .. it shows the human reaper and how it "becomes" the cuttlefish-shaped Reaper. Page 16.

I stand corrected.  I will take a look at the art book when I get home. I just used the Cerberus card.

[Weskerr]

Railstay wrote...


Like I said again, the wording is very specific.  EDI doesn't draw an analogy.  She calls it an embryo, and we know that this is reliable knowledge because the Reaper IFF also gave her access to Reaper hardware/software.  If you ask her about her security protocols at the end of the game, she reveals that she has adapted to protect herself from Reaper viral attacks and penetrate Reaper firewalls because of the knowledge she gained through the IFF.  This is also how she can speak with authority on confirming a Reaper is present just through scans (in the Collector Base) and also talk about what a Reaper consists of.

Either way, she doesn't use words like "embryo-like".  If Reapers create themselves in the image of the race they harvest, then it makes sense that the process they use would also be consistent.  So the Human-Reaper would, for all intents and purposes, be an embryo that literally grows into full maturity rather than being added on.  Using organic and inorganic material both, of course, as you pointed out.

Also, if Reapers use "core" forms, the Illusive Man would've learned this from the derelict Reaper a long time ago.  For those who have in the past claimed that TIM knows about this "core" and simply witholds the information from Shepard, it would be pretty dumb to keep the galaxy's best hope in the dark about what would be the Reapers' greatest weakness.

I agree with you that people should take the very words of the characters as the basis of their conlusions. This is exactly what EDI says in regards to the word "embryo":  This Reaper appears to be in a very early stage of development. An embryo in human terms.
Here's a youtube link. She says this at 4:54

To me it's clear that she's making the comparison between the human Reaper and an embryo to clarify her first sentence, This Reaper appears to be in a very early stage of development. The clarifying message is that the Reaper, like an embryo, is in an early stage of development.

[Zhijn]

I think some of you are missing the point of us who are saying its silly, or just me.

For one i dont think its silly if its brood'd into a ship's shell (that dosnt look human ofc!), it was the fact that the final fight was against a frickin giant human robot. =/

Blah!.

[Jamin101]

AntWrig wrote...

Talogrungi wrote...

D4rk50ul808 wrote...

It was terrible on a few different levels.

1. Does it REALLY need to be that big? If I was trying to build a human Reaper why wouldn't I make it human sized in case I wanted to use it for infiltration and such. Also they made enough Reapers with the Protheans to darken the sky, yet it takes millions to make one human one?

Nope. Each Reaper is slightly different than the rest and the current prevaliing theory is that once every 50,000 years (or whatever the Reaper cycle is) they pick one worthy race and elevate it by creating a new Reaper in its imagine. It's also hypothesised that the Protheans were the only space-faring race during the last cycle and the Reapers (for whatever reason) found them unworthy/unsuitable for ascension.

No matter what you or other say. There is no justification in seeing a gigantic human looking robot. The comments regarding that it's suppose to be core of the ship is just absurd. The other Reaper ships show no signs of this. So, why are you all trying to justifiy a bad decision, that was made by Bioware.

Like I stated before, I would have rather seen a gigantic computer chip. Yet, I get a cliched T-1000 looking machine.

People keep calling it a t-1000, i saw no evidence that it was a memetic polly alloy. If people meant the t800 minus the fact its a human made with robotics they look nothing alike, red eyes is the only similarity

[Rhuakah]

I have to admit, the time the human reaper 'popped up' I was fully expecting it to blurt out, "TELL ME WHY I HAD TO BE A POWERSLAVE!"



Somewhat affected the mood of the fight.

[Jarcander]

Voted effective because when it raised over the edge the first time, I stared, jaw on the floor, until I got blasted off by its weapon. It did resemble the reapers enough for me, though it did leave quite a bit for imagination in its larva state.

[Akrylik]

it's not the terminator rip off reaper, thats just unoriginal and silly along designing terms. Its the principal that they were making a reaper by melting thousands humans into pudding as material for it, think about and it's a pretty freaking gruesome idea.

[Deflagratio]

I thought it was profoundly stupid. It takes the shape of a human because it "Absorbs the Essense" of a species. C'mon.  I would have said something like "For all intents and purposes it is Human, and core design is identified as that species." Which lapses into Legions explination after the mission, that the Reapers are actually a singularity conciousness of a species, aware of what they are, what they were and what they will do. Reapers are no more evil than any other thing we've seen in history, they just have the technology to go a step further.

For the note, I thought the Saren Final was profoundly stupid too, why would Sovereign expose itself like that? Though Saren-Sovereign form now seems like what a Reaper-Turian Hybrid would have looked like (And actually adds an explination of how Saren and organics, likely only Turians though, would be saved from the "Coming fire")

[Weskerr]

Akrylik wrote...

it's not the terminator rip off reaper, thats just unoriginal and silly along designing terms. Its the principal that they were making a reaper by melting thousands humans into pudding as material for it, think about and it's a pretty freaking gruesome idea.

My thoughts exactly.

[Hellebore5000]

Itsss peeeeeeopple!

[Randy1012]

Harvesting specific organic lifeforms to preserve their genetic diversity while also fueling the creation of new Reapers was cool, and expected (well, the 'fueling the creation of new Reapers' part was anyway).

Making a giant Terminator-Reaper was hokey and cheesy beyond belief. It took me out of the game and completely killed the momentum for me.

[smudboy]

What possible significance did the Reapers need to start building a metallic and organic Reaper that would've taken dozens of years to complete? Weren't they on the verge of teleporting into the Citadel and wiping out all life? This is completely the opposite of what a Reaper would actually do: if they're supposedly super-amazing-efficient thinking machines, why would they start building a Reaper that would require millions of human lives, which would involve them ultimately invading hundreds of colonies, and supposedly Earth?



Besides all that time and resources, why don't they just make a massive fleet of normal ships with all their advanced weaponry? What the hell is a giant humanoid cybernetic Reaper going to do? Bite Alliance ships?



Of course we can easily take it down with an Assault Rifle...

[Hellebore5000]

smudboy wrote...

What possible significance did the Reapers need to start building a metallic and organic Reaper that would've taken dozens of years to complete? Weren't they on the verge of teleporting into the Citadel and wiping out all life? This is completely the opposite of what a Reaper would actually do: if they're supposedly super-amazing-efficient thinking machines, why would they start building a Reaper that would require millions of human lives, which would involve them ultimately invading hundreds of colonies, and supposedly Earth?

Besides all that time and resources, why don't they just make a massive fleet of normal ships with all their advanced weaponry? What the hell is a giant humanoid cybernetic Reaper going to do? Bite Alliance ships?

Of course we can easily take it down with an Assault Rifle...

Its apparently how they reproduce, so I think making a baby reaper was apparently the plan not really something to invade with primarily. I liked the Reaper reproduction aspect, but I agree the giant terminator that you can take down even with a pistol shot to the eyeball was really really silly. 

[babylonfreak]

The concept of using human "DNA" (lifeforce) to make a Reaper is good. It says something about Reapers, that they are not 100% machines, and gives them a reason to harvest organic civilizations.

The implementation was unoriginal and a little goofy. You also only fight him for five minutes at the end of a 40 hour game, and honestly Saren-the-Amazing-Bouncing-Husk was not terribly awe-inspiring either. So far Mass Effect has cool stories and interesting concepts, but they have issues coming up with original final boss fights. A little disappointing, but not enough of a flaw to marr the game overall.

Then again, a Cain hit to the eye when it is down to 40% health *is* a pretty cool way to end it.

Modifié par babylonfreak, 20 février 2010 - 03:21 .

[Frotality]

well so far most think it affects...something, which is true, i guess.

and nearly as much find it silly.


i agree that the silly thing affected something, GJ guyz!

[Wild Still]

That reaper is one part Kelly, therefore that reaper is a love starved minx.

The whole Reaper threat also just contracted no less than seventy individually classifiable STDs originating from sixteen known species.

Also, it likes to wear peeler dancer clothes.
 

[Pocketgb]

I find it quite effective. It's not a comforting thought knowing that all of those Reapers are half machine, half people paste. Not only that, but not even being able to tell that it's organic. Quite unnerving, really.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 20 février 2010 - 04:04 .

[corebit]

If the Reapers were absorbing species and creating new Reapers based on that species' shape. Why oh why is the Reaper fleet shown at the end ONLY cuttlefish? They had this extinction cycle going on for millions of years right? It's hard to believe that reapers are all cuttlefish, but they decide to take an exception with the humans.

BTW, cuttlefish design is much more reasonable for a ship design. They are seafaring animals, and most science fiction work treats space as similar to a sea. You have "ships", a group of them called a "fleet", and space military called "navy". Humans bipedal motion which is only suitable for land travel, and one of the worst candidates for aesthetic ship design. Unless you are into terminators flying superman-style of course.