160 réponses à ce sujet

[Wild Still]

I would think that the purpose of the human reaper was to get to the citadel and bring the rest of the reapers through. Since there is no way in hell the races of the galaxy could stand up to an actual full fledged reaper assault. Thus I also don't think ME3 will involve an all out war with the reapers, one of them could have wiped out the entire citadel fleet if Shepard hadn't killed it in the Citadel before its actual body was destroyed.

[TheTrac3r]

I agree with what people have said, defeating the Collectors was more about Shepard evolving as a leader.



As well, on a high level, it was about fighting the war at hand. Sovereign was the first wave of the war. When it failed, the Reapers turned to their only other "base" in the galaxy.



Remember - the Reapers are still outside of the galaxy. Granted, they're getting closer, but their basically walking down the galactic highway with no real wheels (without the Citadel relay to bring them back in a snap). So they can either fly back and do nothing, or, they continue to pursue a quicker way. The only real option is: create another Reaper, have it interface with the Citadel like Sovereign tried to, and teleport the main force in.



So, now we know that a single reaper is really a species, compressed into a single Reaper form (each one, it's own nation, as said in ME1). Maybe that's why they allow the galaxy to regrow. Every 50,000 years, they check the galaxy for a race worthy to be preserved in their club.



So, if that;'s true, they need to choose a race to become a new reaper. Might as well choose the race that defeated Sovereign.



The reason they said "this changes nothing is", they're coming evebtually. Whether it's overnight or 5 years form now, they're coming.



I prefer the longer wait, personally

[StingerSplash01]

True but doesn't every bad guy say these words as well because they think theyare infallable

Modifié par StingerSplash01, 20 février 2010 - 04:27 .

[Wild Still]

Also, the reapers would need an agent in the Milky Way if only due to the fact that they are not IN the galaxy. Our nearest neighbour galaxy is Andromeda, 2,000,000 light years away. Assume that they are somewhere in the middle there 1,000,000 light years away, even at ten times light speed they would be 100,000 years from arrival. They NEED the citadel to get here in a reasonable time, they can hoof it if all else fails, but then they risk arriving to a galaxy full of species with reaper stomping tech.

[huntrrz]

Taritu wrote...

I really doubt there are more humans off-earth than on, given humanity has had Mass Effect technology for less than 30 years. It's always been one of the big holes in the background.  The major races, having been colonizing for a thousand years or more should have much much higher populations than humanity, meaning humanity should be nothing like a "sleeping giant".

Dunno about the percentage of humans off-earth, but it's entirely possible that humans are more 'restless' than the other species and have spread out farther (and thinner) than the other races.  It could be that they're the ones always looking over the horizon / wanting to distance themselves from the establishment while the others are more complacent/cautious.  Humans are regarded as 'reckless' and 'aggressive', in part because they're always pushing the boundaries, going where others fear to tread.

(That's my pet theory regarding humans, anyway.  I formed it long ago watching Trek and I think it applies here also.)

P.S. Remember that a major point of contention with the Council is that they encourage humans to settle on the frontiers (which develops and civilizes the area to their benefit) but beg off providing any support because "they knew it was dangerous when they went out there".

[xXDWARFAREXx]

Was it important? Let me give you two words.



Richard. Simmons.



Wait... Wrong ones.



Human. Reaper. After all, that thing is crazy dangerous if Shepard's pea shooter can take it out. The Normandy's tachion cannons would stand no chan-oh, wait...

[Wild Still]

xXDWARFAREXx wrote...

Human. Reaper. After all, that thing is crazy dangerous if Shepard's pea shooter can take it out. The Normandy's tachion cannons would stand no chan-oh, wait...

Go for the optics!

[DuffyMJ]

In my view Mass Effect's final battle was like Pearl Harbor and Mass Effect 2's mission is like the Doolittle raid. We didn't really do all that much damage, but we did it right in the Reaper's face and put the fear of the-deity-of-your-parents'-choice in them.

[Ajspeed]

Well yes it was important actually

[TheTrac3r]

DuffyMJ wrote...

In my view Mass Effect's final battle was like Pearl Harbor and Mass Effect 2's mission is like the Doolittle raid. We didn't really do all that much damage, but we did it right in the Reaper's face and put the fear of the-deity-of-your-parents'-choice in them.

^ Epic analogy.

Modifié par TheTrac3r, 20 février 2010 - 04:58 .

[SandTrout]

DuffyMJ wrote...

In my view Mass Effect's final battle was like Pearl Harbor and Mass Effect 2's mission is like the Doolittle raid. We didn't really do all that much damage, but we did it right in the Reaper's face and put the fear of the-deity-of-your-parents'-choice in them.

I like this comparison very much, and I stand by my position that it was another battle in the ongoing war.

[DuffyMJ]

to elaborate further, I think it's hard to really qualify the final battle of ME as a "victory" I mean... tons of people died, tons of ships were lost, years of damage to the citadel occured, galactic government was shaken up at the least and wiped out at the most (which was one of the reapers' primary goals). it was like Dunkirk or something... we managed to buy time and survive, hardly a victory.

Mass Effect 2's suicide mission, though not "epic" in scale tactically, was actually humanity/organics first offensive victory against the Reapers... presumably for the first time ever in the history of the extinction cycle.

Plus we killed a Reaper baby, a very stunning upset for the Reapers.  In another sci-fi with sentient starships. that show Farscape, the organic ship Moya was pregnant and was willing to kill its own crew and pilot to keep the baby ship fetus alive, so I imagine the Reaper baby is just as valuable to the Reapers. 

Modifié par DuffyMJ, 20 février 2010 - 05:06 .

[Dishwasher64]

My thought on this was that it was just the only lead you had. *shrug*



The Reapers are still out in dark space, you're still kinda searching for answers and doing your best to disrupt their plans.



Bioware clearly knew that this wasn't the same epic undertaking (at least in terms of scale or importance) that you had in ME1 or (hopefully) will have in ME3, which is why they focused on the suicide mission and teambuilding aspects of it.



So... in short, yes. The OP is right. Significantly less important than what you did in ME1, and still to be seen just how much impact it had in ME3.

[smudboy]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

ME2 wasn't about stopping the Collectors. Not really.

It was about Shepard evolving as a leader. At the end of beginning of ME2, we learn that despite Shepard's efforts, the Reapers are still unacknowledged at large and without a strong figurehead to lead the defense of the Galaxy, the Reapers will continue the cycle that has been perpetuated for millions of years. It's about gathering a crew of vastly differing talents and ideologies whom would never work together under any circumstances and whom don't owe Shepard a damn thing and gain their trust enough to get them to follow Shepard in to what is assumed to be certain death on a "Suicide Mission". Consider it a prologue to what Shepard is going to have to do in order to fight off the true Reaper threat. It's also about who Shepard is able to trust, what with Cerberus being the only group that is really set to help out Shepard at the beginning of the game. It's about the cost of trust. Unfortunately, we will not be able to see many of the consequences of that until ME3.

Show me one example where Shepard evolved as a leader.

[DuffyMJ]

smudboy wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

ME2 wasn't about stopping the Collectors. Not really.

It was about Shepard evolving as a leader. At the end of beginning of ME2, we learn that despite Shepard's efforts, the Reapers are still unacknowledged at large and without a strong figurehead to lead the defense of the Galaxy, the Reapers will continue the cycle that has been perpetuated for millions of years. It's about gathering a crew of vastly differing talents and ideologies whom would never work together under any circumstances and whom don't owe Shepard a damn thing and gain their trust enough to get them to follow Shepard in to what is assumed to be certain death on a "Suicide Mission". Consider it a prologue to what Shepard is going to have to do in order to fight off the true Reaper threat. It's also about who Shepard is able to trust, what with Cerberus being the only group that is really set to help out Shepard at the beginning of the game. It's about the cost of trust. Unfortunately, we will not be able to see many of the consequences of that until ME3.

Show me one example where Shepard evolved as a leader.

Hm, for my character he learned how to use an assault rifle half way through the game!!! :-P

[smudboy]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Huh, what a coincidence, I was just talking about this.

To OP: I agree completely.

Harbinger sums up ME2s main plot perfectly: "This changes nothing".

It really did feel like a bit of a time waste. Seems like ME2 is one half foreshadow, the other half sitting on what ME1 started.

I sure hope it wasn't foreshadowing, or else ME2 was foreshadowing nothing.

At the end of ME2, we're in exactly the same situation as we were at the end of ME1.

[Darth Garrus]

I don´t think so. I believe that in ME1, the Reapers thought they could face anything we, the so called less evolved race, had to offer. Having Sovereign defeated scared them, or at least had they thinking. They are a race that assimilates other advanced races for their own benefit. Remember that they didn´t wipe out the Protheans, they assimilated them, and turned them into the Collectors.

The idea was to assimilate the race from which the "unforeseen element" (Shepard) of the resistance, the element that they didn´t expect to be able to make a difference, came from. Also, remember that all races in the ME universe always say something about "human diversity", and how it makes us unpredictable. Assimilating humans would probably make the prototype for the "perfect Reaper". And Shep stopped this plan.

I think Shep´s next big challenge will be finding a way to give brute force against a full scale assault of Reapers. Maybe something to do with Dark Energy. As in developing a new kind of weapon. Along with making sure their alliances are kept firm. Depending of your choices so far you will have allies with the Rachni, the Krogans (you may even cure the Genophage and have Grunt´s technology to breed Krogans), and much more.

And your choice of destroying the Collector´s base (and the human-reaper) may have you going after another element for your reinforcement of the troops. Or find another way to bring the Council to your side.

How can you not see a difference in Shepard´s leadership? In ME1, forming a group was a piece of cake. The ones who were not yet Alliance came as volunteers, or came without needing much convincing. And they were not a threat. In ME2, Shep had to deal with murderers, psychos, people who didn´t trust him, and just a few old companions. Making them loyal, or even making them change (by changing some murderous habits), is a great sign of increased leadership. As well as making everyone get out alive from the suicide mission. Hell, he even turned some Cerberous operatives against TIM. In short, in ME1 Shep was a natural-born leader who had to prove he could be a leader. By the end of ME2, he proved that and some.

[TheTrac3r]

Darth Suetam wrote...

I don´t think so. I believe that in ME1, the Reapers thought they could face anything we, the so called less evolved race, had to offer. Having Sovereign defeated scared them, or at least had they thinking. They are a race that assimilates other advanced races for their own benefit. Remember that they didn´t wipe out the Protheans, they assimilated them, and turned them into the Collectors.

The idea was to assimilate the race from which the "unforeseen element" (Shepard) of the resistance, the element that they didn´t expect to be able to make a difference, came from. Also, remember that all races in the ME universe always say something about "human diversity", and how it makes us unpredictable. Assimilating humans would probably make the prototype for the "perfect Reaper". And Shep stopped this plan.

I think Shep´s next big challenge will be finding a way to give brute force against a full scale assault of Reapers. Maybe something to do with Dark Energy. As in developing a new kind of weapon. Along with making sure their alliances are kept firm. Depending of your choices so far you will have allies with the Rachni, the Krogans (you may even cure the Genophage and have Grunt´s technology to breed Krogans), and much more.

And your choice of destroying the Collector´s base (and the human-reaper) may have you going after another element for your reinforcement of the troops. Or find another way to bring the Council to your side.

How can you not see a difference in Shepard´s leadership? In ME1, forming a group was a piece of cake. The ones who were not yet Alliance came as volunteers, or came without needing much convincing. And they were not a threat. In ME2, Shep had to deal with murderers, psychos, people who didn´t trust him, and just a few old companions. Making them loyal, or even making them change (by changing some murderous habits), is a great sign of increased leadership. As well as making everyone get out alive from the suicide mission. Hell, he even turned some Cerberous operatives against TIM. In short, in ME1 Shep was a natural-born leader who had to prove he could be a leader. By the end of ME2, he proved that and some.

I think this post hit it on the head.  As well, one thing to note is all the small choices made along the way.

If you spared the Rachni in ME1, they visit you in ME2 and let you know they're with you.  News announcements also let you know that Rachni ships have been playing peek-a-boo in Alliance space.

If you spared the Heretic Geth, the Geth as a whole are now stronger, and unified in opposing the Reapers (your own mission report muses on the possibility).

If you saved a copy of the Genophage cure, your mission report muses on the possibility of armies of Krogan shocktroops.

Etc, etc

Maybe you killed the Rahcni, destroyed the cure, etc etc.  I am betting there will be some conciliation help for those who truly played as a jerk in the first two games (if you did do all the "bad/heartless" actions, you likely saved the Collector base, just statistically, so there's an idea).  Otherwise, you are slowly building this huge list of possible allies.  I am sure ME3 wil choose the top 2 and have them join you in a massive (dynamically generated like the finale mission in ME2) ship/ground battle.

Modifié par TheTrac3r, 20 février 2010 - 07:51 .

[ZennExile]

Short answer. ME2 and everything in it, could have been skipped and ME3 wouldn't suffer for it.



Shorter answer: No

[NuclearBuddha]

Seems to me like the defeat of the Collectors is kinda important to isolated human colonies in the Terminus Systems. Just saying.

[TheTrac3r]

I have an idea. Petition BioWare for a direct ME1 to ME3 character upload.

Shepard didn't die. He instead, spent 2 years on the original Normandy, hunting down Geth until they didn't matter. Then he waited for a bit. Then he sort of got bored and hung out in the Citadel, which he was freely able to run around and ride the elevators allllll day. Sure, he heard about some random Colonies vanishing, but they weren't part of the Alliance, nor in council space.  Besides, having an overflowing inventory, long elevator rides, and a car that didn't really drive well was more important than that.

ME3 will then consist of the above, as a cutscene, and then a cutscene of Shepard enjoying a drink in the Dark Star, only to be killed as a particle beam slices up the Citadel.

The end.

Modifié par TheTrac3r, 20 février 2010 - 08:08 .

[InvaderErl]

ZennExile wrote...

Short answer. ME2 and everything in it, could have been skipped and ME3 wouldn't suffer for it.

Shorter answer: No

I'm sure the appearance of a Human Reaper would have had no negative ramifications whatsoever. No siree.

:innocent:

[ZennExile]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Seems to me like the defeat of the Collectors is kinda important to isolated human colonies in the Terminus Systems. Just saying.

Maybe but if you think about it, the collectors could never just attack earth on their own and earth is apparently the only source of human genetic goo large enough to finish making the baby reaper.  So ya win some ya lose some.  At least the collectors leave all the colonies in tact so we can re-settle.

Oh and yeah the baby human reaper would be scary but it would also not matter until the rest of the reapers showed up to escort it to earth.

Modifié par ZennExile, 20 février 2010 - 08:10 .

[Mudzr]

I agree with the OP, ME2 may seem a little pointless, but maybe we're just looking at it the wrong way:



*Firstly, the human juice is probably used to piwer the collector station, and by picking on the weaker collonies, they were preparing for an assualt on earth. The swarms would have taken earth by surprise and there would have not really been anything to stop them. Shep and his team are prepared and that's how they're able to survive.



*Secondly, the reapers still need to get to the galaxy, and the only way they can do that so far is by using the citadel. The human repaer was probably meant to do this. This makes no sense however if there are more reapers around in the galaxy, like the ones the quarians are trying to find.

Now they're going to have to find another way in.



*By gathering intel on the station, as well as those documents that the collector leader supposedly sent to you, you're already prepared for the Reaper invasion. Even more so if you left the base intact.



*By the end of ME2, you've recruited several armies potentially to fight the reapers, including the rachni, geth, krogan, quarian and cerebus. Plus, you've now finally gotten evidence that the council and the alliance need to join your side. That leaves the mercanary bands (since we killed most of their leaders and founders that shouldn't be hard), minor species (finding a cure for the drell should get both the drell and hanar on our side), the batarians (which, with the inclusion of a batarian party member in ME3 we should be finally be able to sort out our differences) and the terminas races/ species (which should be easier since we've befriended the leader of the capital of the system (Aria- Omega), Liara's fight with the shadow brocker should lead to some information to should be able to help our fight aswell.

Oh and now we have an assasin, justicar, perfect krogan, genetically altered human, a master of biotics, a scientific genius, etc. behind us.



Yes in ME2 all you really manage to do is delay the Reaper invasion, just as in ME, but that's really the point. All we have done so far has been in vain, the Reapers will find another way, which just shows the force we're up against in ME3.

[SurfaceBeneath]

smudboy wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

ME2 wasn't about stopping the Collectors. Not really.

It was about Shepard evolving as a leader. At the end of beginning of ME2, we learn that despite Shepard's efforts, the Reapers are still unacknowledged at large and without a strong figurehead to lead the defense of the Galaxy, the Reapers will continue the cycle that has been perpetuated for millions of years. It's about gathering a crew of vastly differing talents and ideologies whom would never work together under any circumstances and whom don't owe Shepard a damn thing and gain their trust enough to get them to follow Shepard in to what is assumed to be certain death on a "Suicide Mission". Consider it a prologue to what Shepard is going to have to do in order to fight off the true Reaper threat. It's also about who Shepard is able to trust, what with Cerberus being the only group that is really set to help out Shepard at the beginning of the game. It's about the cost of trust. Unfortunately, we will not be able to see many of the consequences of that until ME3.

Show me one example where Shepard evolved as a leader.

When he convinced 9 strangers to go on a Suicide Mission with him.

If there was a portal in which anyone who went through never came back, would you follow some random yahoo through it?