226 réponses à ce sujet

[Cuthlan]

David Gaider wrote...

Walina wrote...
People have to stop lying because we all know that most of us out there play Bioware games for the romance system since none have done that before in US and EU! Unless you know japanese, you're stuck with Bioware games allowing to romance npc in their games. And for some, it's just to have some sex scene allowed in a video game.

Umm... not to be too blunt, but I think you're wildly overstating it. It's clear that the people who do enjoy the romances enjoy it a LOT and are very passionate about it -- enough to create mods galore -- but if you're going to interpret that as saying most people play Bioware games for romances period that's too far.

Thank you for saying that and saving me the time.

Walina, that is seriously one of the most absurd things I've seen said on these boards. Sure, there are some people that use Bioware games as romance sims, but for most people they are action/adventure RPGs whether there is a romance or not. Sure, I take part in the romances in the games, but I'll happily play games without them, and I hate the notion that it is a required element of a good RPG.

[Cuthlan]

kaweeks wrote...

I'm kind of pissed about the decision, with out the romance you just end up with a hack'n slash game like Diablo. If I knew there wasn't going to be a romance option or a chance for relationships in the game I wouldn't have pre-ordered. The romance option of the game was the moral compass for your player. The reason for making certain decision in the game were made because you wanted the approval of the NPC you where romancing.

And you can't have a relationship with someone you aren't trying to bone? You can't seek the approval of a friend?

Better yet... you can't make a character with a mind of his own who doesn't make decisions solely to try to make someone in their group happy? Doing something to get into someone's pants is hardly what I'd call following a moral compass.

I would much rather do things because my character feels they are the appropriate thing to do, and either his companions agree or perhaps he tries to change their mind over time.

Not having romances doesn't turn the game into Diablo. You can still develop friendships. I felt a greater bond with Wynne and Alistair when I played my warrior than I did with Leliana, whom he was romancing.

[Divine Justinia V]

I don't care about the romances. I love this game regardless. This was my first RPG so.. yeah

[elearon1]

David Gaider wrote...
I have to admit I'm a little relieved not to have to shoehorn a new romance in or try to extend an already-existing romance into a series of long talks about how much you love one another, etc. etc.

I think one of the things people are really concerned about is not seeing the romances they built up over so many hours in Origins come back in an expansion or sequel ... they did spend a great deal of time with these characters, after all, and became invested in the idea of their characters being part of that npc's life and vice versa. 

In many ways it would be better to force players to start a new character rather than take away something which had become a major part of how they defined that character and their hopes for it in the future.  

If another expansion comes out allowing you to bring your character forward and yet again the romances are ditched I think you will lose some customers of the franchise for real.  Currently I suspect most of those threatening not to purchase will overcome their disappointment and do so anyway ... but you can't rely on that happening every time ... people have an expectation of a franchise game and if it isn't lived up to sooner rather than much much later they will ditch it and survive on mods and third party games.

[elearon1]

Walina wrote... People have to stop lying because we all know that most of us out there play Bioware games for the romance system since none have done that before in US and EU! Unless you know japanese, you're stuck with Bioware games allowing to romance npc in their games.

Well, that's not entirely true, there are any number of Japanese Interactive Novel games (B-games and the like) translated into English and more every couple months, so if this is your thing (and no reason it shouldn't be, there are some great games in that genre) then you are far from being left out in the cold.

The real issue is, while those Interactive Novels are great, they don't offer the same kind of additional gameplay english crpgs do - so if you want more than just pursuing girls (almost all english translated games involve you pursuing girls, though there are a couple for girls pursuing guys and a couple more for men pursuing men - almost none for women pursuing women) then you are a bit out of luck; though we are starting to see more B-games with some kind of crpg-esque gameplay appearing in recent years.  

I know that the ideal game for people who enjoy both so much would be one in which the excellent Bioware story and crpg elements shared equal time with Interactive Novel type romances ... but I fear that is a wish which will never see the light of day.

[MaxQuartiroli]

David Gaider wrote...
I have to admit I'm a little relieved not to have to shoehorn a new romance in or try to extend an already-existing romance into a series of long talks about how much you love one another, etc. etc.

You are saying us that we will NEVER see again something like Throne of Baal in a future Bioware game....

David Gaider wrote...
Probably some people will take that as "OMG HE HATES ROMANCE! WE WILL NEVER FIND LOVE AGAIN!" and I'm sorry if that's the case. But I am impressed by how some people get very committed over the idea. If anything, I'd say that proves it's worthwhile doing again in the future... in a game with the budget to support doing it, and doing it in the manner that such plots deserve.

I am glad to read these words.. This means you won't write a romance in a game just to "put somehow a romance " but you want to do it when the budget and the the complexity of the game are high enough to write a "well done" romance.. am I wrong?

[FieryDove]

David Gaider wrote...

It might have been interesting to try, but there are other types of interaction other than romance. Just because you aren't having romances doesn't equate to "OMG IT'S ALL HACK AND SLASH AND NO DIALOGUE! HOW BORING!" I mean... come on.

In the end, if it's that important to you then you can make your own decisions about whether the game is worth it. But as much as I enjoy writing romance plots I will never subscribe to the belief that it's the most important thing about a Bioware game.

Ever.

Sacrilege! Haha, j/king.

Just don't kill off/marry off Anders, I love snark  and want to see him in another expansion or three too.

[Ahisgewaya]

David Gaider wrote...

Umm... not to be too blunt, but I think you're wildly overstating it. It's clear that the people who do enjoy the romances enjoy it a LOT and are very passionate about it -- enough to create mods galore -- but if you're going to interpret that as saying most people play Bioware games for romances period that's too far. I think most people enjoy them, and while I would have liked the chance to include romance in Awakening I have to admit I'm a little relieved not to have to shoehorn a new romance in or try to extend an already-existing romance into a series of long talks about how much you love one another, etc. etc.

It might have been interesting to try, but there are other types of interaction other than romance. Just because you aren't having romances doesn't equate to "OMG IT'S ALL HACK AND SLASH AND NO DIALOGUE! HOW BORING!" I mean... come on.

In the end, if it's that important to you then you can make your own decisions about whether the game is worth it. But as much as I enjoy writing romance plots I will never subscribe to the belief that it's the most important thing about a Bioware game.

Ever.

Probably some people will take that as "OMG HE HATES ROMANCE! WE WILL NEVER FIND LOVE AGAIN!" and I'm sorry if that's the case. But I am impressed by how some people get very committed over the idea. If anything, I'd say that proves it's worthwhile doing again in the future... in a game with the budget to support doing it, and doing it in the manner that such plots deserve.

This is very close to how I feel on the matter. Glad to see the people making these games don't ascribe to the "OMG! It's a hack in slash without romance!" idiocy.

[Ahisgewaya]

Cuthlan wrote...

I would much rather do things because my character feels they are the appropriate thing to do, and either his companions agree or perhaps he tries to change their mind over time.

Not having romances doesn't turn the game into Diablo. You can still develop friendships. I felt a greater bond with Wynne and Alistair when I played my warrior than I did with Leliana, whom he was romancing.

I found the most commeraderie with Shale and Wynne. I romanced Morrigan, but most of the time just felt sorry for her, not like the witty banter and hilariously cynical view of the world Shale had or the touching "mentor" momments I had with Wynne.

On the same note, I hated Zevran on the first playthrough. The second playthrough though I specifically told him we were not ever going to be involved romantically, and he immediately became a much more likeable character (especially since the incessant flirting stopped).

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 21 février 2010 - 12:46 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

So long as there is some aknowledgement of your previous relationships and major game shaping descisions like who is king/queen, I'm happy. The worst possibility would be to have a lame-brain NWN2-esque "rocks fall, everyone dies, lets drop a new plot with rushed, hairbrain new romances in for no real reason" scenario. Which, from what I have been reading, will not be the case, thankfully.



I'm sure there will be plenty of "romance mods" created by players, and certainly updates on the "porn" mods. But it's just an expansion, and only the first. Who knows, in the future, it just may play out with more. As long as there is reasonable continuity, then it will be a successful enough transition.

[Maria Caliban]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
I have to admit I'm a little relieved not to have to shoehorn a new romance in or try to extend an already-existing romance into a series of long talks about how much you love one another, etc. etc.

You are saying us that we will NEVER see again something like Throne of Baal in a future Bioware game....

That's what totally what he said.

David Gaider is the only writer at BioWare, and he makes all the decisions regarding romances, and once he says something on a forum he never feels differently two or five years hence.

[kaweeks]

Ok so there is no romance because its much like a large DLC and adds about 15 hours to game play but costs about the same price as DA itself?

[Efesell]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

So long as there is some aknowledgement of your previous relationships and major game shaping descisions like who is king/queen, I'm happy. The worst possibility would be to have a lame-brain NWN2-esque "rocks fall, everyone dies, lets drop a new plot with rushed, hairbrain new romances in for no real reason" scenario. Which, from what I have been reading, will not be the case, thankfully. .

An odd example given that despite the stupid premise, Mask ended up being leagues ahead in terms of companion/romance subplots.

[Wournos]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

The thing is, aries1001, this isn't a base game that's coming out. It's an expansion (or if you don't like to call it that, a really big bit of DLC) and it's been said that romance didn't fit the theme of this expansion.
Just because we don't continue them in Awakening it does not mean they are unfinished, uncompleted or otherwise ended.

Until there is another expansion / sequel with our PCs lover acctually in it explaining things, it will feel very "unfinished, uncompleted or otherwise ended". Sure, Awakening is said to have some sort of explanation, but until I know what that is I will treat my dwarven girl's romance as unfinished / put on major hold. Waiting for player reviews on this forum.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Maria Caliban wrote...

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
I have to admit I'm a little relieved not to have to shoehorn a new romance in or try to extend an already-existing romance into a series of long talks about how much you love one another, etc. etc.

You are saying us that we will NEVER see again something like Throne of Baal in a future Bioware game....

That's what totally what he said.

David Gaider is the only writer at BioWare, and he makes all the decisions regarding romances, and once he says something on a forum he never feels differently two or five years hence.

Are you always sarcastic when you answer to someone or do you know any other way to relate yourself to other people?

I know he is not the only writer and he is not the one who makes the decision.. but he is still an official form BW..  and if he thinks something that may be opposite to what his company thinks he never would write it publicly...
If he said this, it means he knows very well that his thought is compliant with BW thought....

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 21 février 2010 - 09:47 .

[SeanMurphy2]

The romance is just the secondary layer. You enjoyed the romance because the underlying character was interesting and well written.

If they had limited development time for Awakening, I guess the priority would be on creating interesting characters. And prioritising the banter and friendship path of dialogue over the romance dialogue.

[bluewolv1970]

Well what concerns me isn't having romances per se but rather that bioware really doesn't have a history of making good expansions were there isn't romance. My concern again isn't the romance itself but the corollation between writing a romance for a character and the OVERALL development (including all dialogue) of the character. If bioware CAN write deep complex characters for this expansion without any romance then great but their track record to this point, limited though it is, is not very good at all... and as far as continuing the past romances, I agree with the poster above who suggested that if they are going to do the warden character from origins a disservice by half assing his choices (from the US ending to romance endings, to dlc transfer) then they really should have made the expansion a brand new character

[TheRealIncarnal]

I just think that this game doesn't strike me as being very favorable to romances.

Why force them into things that don't need them?

[Cuthlan]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Well what concerns me isn't having romances per se but rather that bioware really doesn't have a history of making good expansions were there isn't romance. My concern again isn't the romance itself but the corollation between writing a romance for a character and the OVERALL development (including all dialogue) of the character. If bioware CAN write deep complex characters for this expansion without any romance then great but their track record to this point, limited though it is, is not very good at all... and as far as continuing the past romances, I agree with the poster above who suggested that if they are going to do the warden character from origins a disservice by half assing his choices (from the US ending to romance endings, to dlc transfer) then they really should have made the expansion a brand new character

Bioware doesn't have a history of making good expansions without romance?

Tales of the Sword Coast (the story of the werewolf isle was awesome). Hordes of the Underdark (I suppose since you need romance so badly, you might have considered yourself to be wooing Deekin.  ), and Tales of Undrentide.

Now, what expansions without romance has Bioware made that were not good?

[bluewolv1970]

Cuthlan wrote...

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Well what concerns me isn't having romances per se but rather that bioware really doesn't have a history of making good expansions were there isn't romance. My concern again isn't the romance itself but the corollation between writing a romance for a character and the OVERALL development (including all dialogue) of the character. If bioware CAN write deep complex characters for this expansion without any romance then great but their track record to this point, limited though it is, is not very good at all... and as far as continuing the past romances, I agree with the poster above who suggested that if they are going to do the warden character from origins a disservice by half assing his choices (from the US ending to romance endings, to dlc transfer) then they really should have made the expansion a brand new character

Bioware doesn't have a history of making good expansions without romance?

Tales of the Sword Coast (the story of the werewolf isle was awesome). Hordes of the Underdark (I suppose since you need romance so badly, you might have considered yourself to be wooing Deekin.  ), and Tales of Undrentide.

Now, what expansions without romance has Bioware made that were not good?

Hordes of the underdark had several romance options(the drow girl and later in the game aribeth - but why let facts stop stop you from being a smart ass), tales of the sword coast wasn't a true expansion, and shadows of undrentide was terrible in my opinion (bland characters - and ZERO charcter development). 

Modifié par bluewolv1970, 21 février 2010 - 03:28 .

[bjdbwea]

Hm, so "budget" is the reason now? What do you gain by reducing production costs when in effect less people buy the game, I wonder. Not that I'm predicting this for this add-on, but you can only live from past fame and name for so long. Hopefully EA will give BioWare a long enough leash in future titles.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 21 février 2010 - 04:16 .

[Cuthlan]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Cuthlan wrote...

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Well what concerns me isn't having romances per se but rather that bioware really doesn't have a history of making good expansions were there isn't romance. My concern again isn't the romance itself but the corollation between writing a romance for a character and the OVERALL development (including all dialogue) of the character. If bioware CAN write deep complex characters for this expansion without any romance then great but their track record to this point, limited though it is, is not very good at all... and as far as continuing the past romances, I agree with the poster above who suggested that if they are going to do the warden character from origins a disservice by half assing his choices (from the US ending to romance endings, to dlc transfer) then they really should have made the expansion a brand new character

Bioware doesn't have a history of making good expansions without romance?

Tales of the Sword Coast (the story of the werewolf isle was awesome). Hordes of the Underdark (I suppose since you need romance so badly, you might have considered yourself to be wooing Deekin.  ), and Tales of Undrentide.

Now, what expansions without romance has Bioware made that were not good?

Hordes of the underdark had several romance options(the drow girl and later in the game aribeth - but why let facts stop stop you from being a smart ass), tales of the sword coast wasn't a true expansion, and shadows of undrentide was terrible in my opinion (bland characters - and ZERO charcter development). 

Shows how important romances are... I played it a dozen times and the romances didn't even make a mark on my memory of the game.

What about ToSC makes it not a true expansion? More quests, spells, areas, higher level cap, new items... That's an expansion.

[Dethanos]

Cuthlan wrote...

Shows how important romances are... I played it a dozen times and the romances didn't even make a mark on my memory of the game.

I don't recall any romances from that game either. Actually, I don't recall "romances" being a big part of any good games before DA:O, and they really didn't add anything to the story. Seriously, it's just a few lines of cheesy dialogue tacked onto the influence system. Personally, I'm glad I won't have to endure any more of that dreck in the expansion. "Romance" is a waste of time and energy best spent elsewhere.

[SeanMurphy2]

The writers probably spent several years perfecting the banter, the characters, relationships and the romances in DA:O. I am guessing it was a huge struggle to craft characters of that quality and depth.

You can't expect the writers to quickly produce two(?) more romances of equivalent quality. It could end up being superficial or distract them from improving other areas of the game.

An expansion is going to be on a much smaller scale. It is not going to have everything you want. But it is still 25+ hours of new Dragon Age content. Rather than having a long 2-3 year wait for a full sequel.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 21 février 2010 - 06:00 .

[MaxQuartiroli]

I wonder why all players who don't care about romances have to convince all other people who likes them, that romances are useless



I am a great romance fan and, even if I say they are not the most important feature, they are a thing I like very much.. Therefore I prefer to play a good game with romances than a good game without romances.. and there is nothing strange in this...



And if a game is a bad game I will always say it is a bad game even if it is with or without romances. But everyone is free to play the games as he likes, and to hope to find in games what he likes... I really don't understand why people have to turn against others if they are just regretting because they will not find something they like...