226 réponses à ce sujet

[Dethanos]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

I wonder why all players who don't care about romances have to convince all other people who likes them, that romances are useless

Day after day of...

"OMG, teh romances are the ONLY thing that makes bioware gamez ANY different from other games!1!"
&
"Characters without romance options are shallow."
&
"Bioware never made a good expansion without romances."

Yeah, I can't imagine how that would provoke someone to express a dissenting opinion. Don't people realize that if they disagree, they should just STFU?

[Abriael_CG]

David Gaider wrote...
Umm... not to be too blunt, but I think you're wildly overstating it. It's clear that the people who do enjoy the romances enjoy it a LOT and are very passionate about it -- enough to create mods galore -- but if you're going to interpret that as saying most people play Bioware games for romances period that's too far.

While it's true that people don't play Bioware games only for romance, I will venture as far as saying that romance is, in a crowded market as the current gaming one, one of the few strongly distinguishing factors between Bioware games and other western games. The western gaming Industry has neglected the romantic aspect of storytelling for far too long, and games that have a deep romantic plot are a breath of fresh air.
It's not random that this forum, just as much as the Bioware fanbase, has a very strong female presence. What exactly do you think it's for? 

Personally, I feel that Bioware, by excluding romances, are alienating, or at least scorning, a quite sizeable part of their fanbase. For me romances are ONE of the characteristics that make Bioware games unique (probably the biggest one), and my excitement level for awakening went down by a good 50% since when i heard that there are no romances. I'd dare say that the general reaction to that announcement has been generally and overwhelmingly very negative, and while no one expect it to change for awakenings, maybe you guys should learn from this experience for the future.

One of the most important concepts of marketing is providing something that the competition doesn't provide. Romance is one of those "somethings" for Bioware. It's really that simple.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 21 février 2010 - 06:24 .

[Curlain]

Dethanos wrote...

Yeah, I can't imagine how that would provoke someone to express a dissenting opinion. Don't people realize that if they disagree, they should just STFU?

O_O really, I was under the impression that the purpose of this forum was to discuss all aspects of the game, what we liked, what we may not have like etc and it about expressing our opinions and discussions around them.  Have I missed the part in the rule of conduct that says only one opinion on matters can be expressed?  

Cause until then, on a forum who's purpose is the discussing of the game (and in this case the upcoming expansion) then it's all about us sharing our opinions, thoughts and feelings (otherwise may as well just shut it down and have the website).  As such, why should someone stay silent in their opinion anymore then you or anyone else (cause what kind of discussion and debate does that create?).

If you really don't like a thread then leave that thread alone, no one is strapping you to your PC and forcing you to read these threads, it's your choice.  So please stop trying to tell people what opinions they are allowed to share or not (that's Bioware and EA's job if anyone), just as no one should tell you what opinions on the game to share or not, so just discuss it or leave that thread be, not that difficult really.

Modifié par Curlain, 21 février 2010 - 06:39 .

[MaxQuartiroli]

@Dethanos...

Extremism is always wrong in any way...

Simply I don't understand why people have to write...

"romances are crap"

or

"people who likes romances are only sex-frustrated who doesn't have a real life"

as I read sometimes in these days...

@Curlain

You are right... If I open a thread just to talk about Leliana/Morrigan/Zevran and to talk about the hope to continue our romances with them I don't understand why someone has to come into that thread writing

"Come on guys.. Leliana/Morrigan s*cks... I hope to never see them again in a future game.."
You don't like them? Well.. just avoid that thread...

When I began to write in forums in the middle of 90s there was always a post who said "Netiquette... Read this before posting please". It seems like many people who write today in forums did not ever read it..

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 21 février 2010 - 06:56 .

[Dethanos]

Curlain wrote...

Dethanos wrote...

Yeah, I can't imagine how that would provoke someone to express a dissenting opinion. Don't people realize that if they disagree, they should just STFU?

O_O really, I was under the impression that the purpose of this forum was to discuss all aspects of the game, what we liked, what we may not have like etc and it about expressing our opinions and discussions around them.  Have I missed the part in the rule of conduct that says only one opinion on matters can be expressed?  

Cause until then, on a forum who's purpose is the discussing of the game (and in this case the upcoming expansion) then it's all about us sharing our opinions, thoughts and feelings (otherwise may as well just shut it down and have the website).  As such, why should someone stay silent in their opinion anymore then you or anyone else (cause what kind of discussion and debate does that create?).

If you really don't like a thread then leave that thread alone, no one is strapping you to your PC and forcing you to read these threads, it's your choice.  So please stop trying to tell people what opinions they are allowed to share or not (that's Bioware and EA's job if anyone), just as no one should tell you what opinions on the game to share or not, so just discuss it or leave that thread be, not that difficult really.

That thing that just went right past you, it was the point.

[Cuthlan]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

I wonder why all players who don't care about romances have to convince all other people who likes them, that romances are useless

I am a great romance fan and, even if I say they are not the most important feature, they are a thing I like very much.. Therefore I prefer to play a good game with romances than a good game without romances.. and there is nothing strange in this...

And if a game is a bad game I will always say it is a bad game even if it is with or without romances. But everyone is free to play the games as he likes, and to hope to find in games what he likes... I really don't understand why people have to turn against others if they are just regretting because they will not find something they like...

How many times have you seen people say they don't recommend a game because the forums are filled with complaints? There's nothing wrong with presenting differing opinions and counterarguments so that the board isn't filled to the brim with the negativity of people saying Awakenings is pointless/terrible without romances.

A well-written romance is great. I enjoy them. But I do not feel that it is a lynchpin for the quality of a story. Sometimes romances don't fit. Cramming them in just to have romances to appease people just takes away from the overall game.

As for Awakening, just take and reapply the end of the Jaheira romance;

The years following the Bhaalspawn saga were kind to Jaheira. They couldn't be called peaceful, by any means, but her relationship with ______ weathered it all. Theirs was an unshakable union, and while duty or adventure might separate them for even years a time, they always returned to one another. Her friends would marvel at how secure in this Jaheira seemed to be, especially considering her initial reluctance, but she would chuckle when thinking back on those first cautious days. After all, she and ______ had literally been to the hells and back, and when the gods themselves couldn't separate the two, what were simple months and miles going to do? She lived long and well. Not always with ______, but never truly apart from him.

Best romance in a Bioware game ever (don't dare argue with me. ).

You don't always have to be together, and Bioware has said that just because you wont be together in Awakening doesn't necessarily mean you'll never be together again.

[Abriael_CG]

Dethanos wrote...

That thing that just went right past you, it was the point.

Hard for something that doesn't exist to go past someone.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Cuthlan wrote...

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

I wonder why all players who don't care about romances have to convince all other people who likes them, that romances are useless

I am a great romance fan and, even if I say they are not the most important feature, they are a thing I like very much.. Therefore I prefer to play a good game with romances than a good game without romances.. and there is nothing strange in this...

And if a game is a bad game I will always say it is a bad game even if it is with or without romances. But everyone is free to play the games as he likes, and to hope to find in games what he likes... I really don't understand why people have to turn against others if they are just regretting because they will not find something they like...

How many times have you seen people say they don't recommend a game because the forums are filled with complaints? There's nothing wrong with presenting differing opinions and counterarguments so that the board isn't filled to the brim with the negativity of people saying Awakenings is pointless/terrible without romances.

A well-written romance is great. I enjoy them. But I do not feel that it is a lynchpin for the quality of a story. Sometimes romances don't fit. Cramming them in just to have romances to appease people just takes away from the overall game.

As for Awakening, just take and reapply the end of the Jaheira romance;

The years following the Bhaalspawn saga were kind to Jaheira. They couldn't be called peaceful, by any means, but her relationship with ______ weathered it all. Theirs was an unshakable union, and while duty or adventure might separate them for even years a time, they always returned to one another. Her friends would marvel at how secure in this Jaheira seemed to be, especially considering her initial reluctance, but she would chuckle when thinking back on those first cautious days. After all, she and ______ had literally been to the hells and back, and when the gods themselves couldn't separate the two, what were simple months and miles going to do? She lived long and well. Not always with ______, but never truly apart from him.

Best romance in a Bioware game ever (don't dare argue with me. ).

You don't always have to be together, and Bioware has said that just because you wont be together in Awakening doesn't necessarily mean you'll never be together again.

We are just saying almost the same things in different ways.... I was just trying to say that everybody is able to think with his head regardless of what people may write/not write in forums... and that there are much more civil way to speak and explicate opinions than I sometimes read somewhere...  

I regret lack of romance in Awakening, but I am going to play it the same... there are other people who will not play it for these reasons... But it isn't right to insult them for this, as it isn't right they open 400 thread a day just to say this...

[Cuthlan]

Yeah, you and I are pretty much on the same page. I was mostly answering the question as to why people stick up for a lack of romance, then kind of going off on a tangent talking to other people.



There are people that take the argument too far to extremes on both sides.

[Sinushi]

Abriael_CG wrote...


While it's true that people don't play Bioware games only for romance, I will venture as far as saying that romance is, in a crowded market as the current gaming one, one of the few strongly distinguishing factors between Bioware games and other western games. The western gaming Industry has neglected the romantic aspect of storytelling for far too long, and games that have a deep romantic plot are a breath of fresh air.
It's not random that this forum, just as much as the Bioware fanbase, has a very strong female presence. What exactly do you think it's for? 

Personally, I feel that Bioware, by excluding romances, are alienating, or at least scorning, a quite sizeable part of their fanbase. For me romances are ONE of the characteristics that make Bioware games unique (probably the biggest one), and my excitement level for awakening went down by a good 50% since when i heard that there are no romances. I'd dare say that the general reaction to that announcement has been generally and overwhelmingly very negative, and while no one expect it to change for awakenings, maybe you guys should learn from this experience for the future.

One of the most important concepts of marketing is providing something that the competition doesn't provide. Romance is one of those "somethings" for Bioware. It's really that simple.

Well stated.  As a female gamer, I do enjoy the emotional depth of Bioware games, and the romance aspect adds flavor to the game.  My boyfriend and I had a good laugh at my expense, when I found myself teary eyed at the end of DAO.....My funeral was so sad!   I have never been so emotionally involved in a video game.....so Congrats Bioware!  Job well done.  The character development was profound, and tugged at my emotions.   A unique experience in my long gaming history. 

As for Awakings, with or without the romance options I am hoping for that same feeling of emotional investment and attachment to the characters.  It's a nice break from the main story, or sometimes the 'grinds' that I find in a lot of games. It submersed me into the story and into the lives of my  companions.  More importantly, it was fun, entertaining and made the game shine above other Rpg's.

After I had read that you could import your previous character into Awakings, my first thought was....Me too?  Afterall, My gal sacrificed herself.....so I started toying with different scenerios...
Perhaps I could be brought back with the use of Blood magic, or some miracle bestowed by the Maker?
Then I read a little more and discovered, that if I were to import my pc, there would be no explanation as to how she was "reincarnated".  Awwww, that's like reading a chose your own adventure book with missing pages. 

I have a plathora of dungeon crawlers, hack n slashers and first person shooters to play, but I want more games with "personality".  Bioware has the talent and ability to provide that element, and I hope they continue to implement and improve upon that concept.  

[grieferbastard]

Wow. Another topic on this. I can appreciate that it's an important issue for some people. They are interested in the game for the RPed social interaction. Probably a pretty vocal group of people too based on the forum response.

DA however has sold about 3.2 million copies if I remember correctly. Probably a few of those people, a couple million or so, liked the story above and beyond picking who to hook up with. Some people even enjoyed the core plot. You know, the whole 'Grey Wardens vs Darkspawn' thing. The story I think folks call that. Alright. That was a bit sarcastic, I admit. Yet can anyone else appreciate that the idea that without a romance option an expansion doesn't have the same value?

So, given that Awakenings had nothing like the budget of DA:O (and likely had its budget cut like everything else associated with EA in Q3/Q4 2009, when it would have still been in development) and seems heavily focused on fleshing out the Darkspawn origins and presenting some new core-story related content (remember, the core story is NOT who makes bebbies with OMG Morrigan) that there wasn't room to adequately flesh out new or existing romantic interests in anything vaguely like the sort of depth they need? Does that seem unreasonable?

Tell you what. Look at three options:

Option 1: Romance Expansion! Light on core plot/stats/objects/talents but heavy on dialog with your existing love interests (minus Morrigan of course). New sex scenes and associated animations and three new ways to cuddle! Also a wider variety of underwear!

Option 2: Plot/stats/objects/talents heavy with an emphasis on new core plot and story, especially around the Darkspawn. Still plenty of dialog but focused more around the core plot and story with a few brief bits of original (also expensive) NPCs.

Option 3: An attempt to balance both but doing neither remarkably well. This is the magic '****** off everyone' approach that deserves a bullet in the brain pan and left for dead on the pre production discussion table.

Between viable options 1 and 2, which is going to sell better among your 3 million customers? Dragon Age 2, which is in development, is almost certainly going to be just as heavy on the relationship goodies as DA:O was. Why not focus on the bulk of your core audience? 

If you play DA:O for the romance and social RP with pre-written NPCs you are the minority. That's why games like Halo and Modern Warfare sell so well. Modern Warfare 2 topped a billion dollars in sales in January. That's a quarter the total net value of EA as a business. Pretending otherwise is utterly counter-productive. Doing something stupid like saying 'I won't buy any DA style games unless they give me someone to love in every expansion and DLC, even if I might otherwise enjoy it!' is going to achieve one thing and one thing only - less DA style game development in the future. Now, if an expansion like Awakenings don't seem like they're worth $40 in their own right for the entertainment they would provide you then don't buy it. I would never say otherwise.

Yet trying to 'force' a company to change their development and marketing behavior by refusing to buy a product is indeed going to affect their behavior. Just absolutely understand that the result of that is unlikely to be to move it towards you - it will move towards where the money to be a successful business is. Buy products based on their appeal to you and their worth to you relative to cost and the market will do the rest. If you muddle that up with attempting to manipulate the market all you're going to do is screw yourself.

[malaficent]

alister and the character i was playing actually fit together and it wasnt a fling. i got the ending where they stayed together and the romance was the thing that kept me so addicted to the game that i couldnt stop playing. two grey wardens together was a nice fit cause it helps you fight harder to keep each other alive and  you will always be together fighting. and i think for the price of these games they can put enough budget to make the romance. i know things cost alot of money but its not like its a unknown game company with a really small budget.

[Jyces]

I'm truly hope that they are only taking away romance for this one expansion...I love a game with emotion.

Modifié par Jyces, 25 février 2010 - 02:02 .

[Jyces]

Victor Wachter wrote...

The romance decision will always be made on a per-game basis. There's no blanket policy at BioWare that must always be or never be romance in a game. That will be decided on what fits best in each game.

Woot! That sounds fair enough to me. Although, I'm really hoping that romance will be able to fit into all of the other upcoming expansions. LOL! 

[Bratt1204]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

@Dethanos...

Extremism is always wrong in any way...

Simply I don't understand why people have to write...

"romances are crap"

or

"people who likes romances are only sex-frustrated who doesn't have a real life"

as I read sometimes in these days...

@Curlain

You are right... If I open a thread just to talk about Leliana/Morrigan/Zevran and to talk about the hope to continue our romances with them I don't understand why someone has to come into that thread writing

"Come on guys.. Leliana/Morrigan s*cks... I hope to never see them again in a future game.."
You don't like them? Well.. just avoid that thread...

When I began to write in forums in the middle of 90s there was always a post who said "Netiquette... Read this before posting please". It seems like many people who write today in forums did not ever read it..

That could not be further from the truth.

[Alneverus]

Cuthlan wrote...

As for Awakening, just take and reapply the end of the Jaheira romance;

The years following the Bhaalspawn saga were kind to Jaheira. They couldn't be called peaceful, by any means, but her relationship with ______ weathered it all. Theirs was an unshakable union, and while duty or adventure might separate them for even years a time, they always returned to one another. Her friends would marvel at how secure in this Jaheira seemed to be, especially considering her initial reluctance, but she would chuckle when thinking back on those first cautious days. After all, she and ______ had literally been to the hells and back, and when the gods themselves couldn't separate the two, what were simple months and miles going to do? She lived long and well. Not always with ______, but never truly apart from him.

Best romance in a Bioware game ever (don't dare argue with me. ).

You don't always have to be together, and Bioware has said that just because you wont be together in Awakening doesn't necessarily mean you'll never be together again.

That application works for one of the romance options. It doesn't, however, work for them all. I think the biggest issue with all this is that the game seems to lack any real continuation from the end of DA:O to DA:A. Characters such as Zevran and Leliana will require (dependant on ending) a lot of explanation as to why they left.

One of the keys to continuing a story is the actual continuity of that story. Many people have supported the game based on the story of the original, and even I will admit it has a good story. However significant changes without good and probable explanations will, in the end, detract from the entire story as a whole. \\

bjdbwea wrote...

Hm, so "budget" is the reason now? What
do you gain by reducing production costs when in effect less people buy
the game, I wonder. Not that I'm predicting this for this add-on, but
you can only live from past fame and name for so long. Hopefully EA
will give BioWare a long enough leash in future titles. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/unsure.png[/smilie]

My counter to the budget claims is pretty straightforward. For the price point the arguement of budget becomes mute. The game is rather close to the current price points and is also well within a decent range of the release price points. With all the assets from the original still present they save a whole lot on production costs for those aspects of the game alone.

That is a devil's advocate point of view.

Modifié par Alneverus, 25 février 2010 - 03:59 .

[Wygrath]

I'm glad there aren't any romances in the game. Its kind of creepy how some of you guys get with whole romance thing.



Another thing that bothers me is when people get all bent out of shape if there's no gay option. I have no problem with other people's sexual preferences. It doesn't affect me. I don't like onion and sardine sandwiches. I know other people do and I have nothing against them for that.



Now, the reason I'm bothered by the gay and lesbian uproar when it isn't an option is that SciFi and Fantasy have always been the realm of heterosexual males. Now I understand that times change and that change is a good thing and also the only known constant in the universe.



That being said:



If there was a genre that pandered to homosexuals for decades, wouldn't you guys and gals get put off if I made a huge deal about there not being a heterosexual option in the romance?



Seriously, I would just not delve into that aspect of the game. Everything doesn't have to be pandered to each every type of person. In fact, by trying to pander to everyone, it diminishes the end product.



I don't go into a RPG game with my FPS war game mind set and expect that kind of gameplay.



I'm sure someone will take offense at my post even though that's not my intent. My condolences to my thin skinned peers.

[Cuthlan]

Alneverus wrote...

Cuthlan wrote...

As for Awakening, just take and reapply the end of the Jaheira romance;

The years following the Bhaalspawn saga were kind to Jaheira. They couldn't be called peaceful, by any means, but her relationship with ______ weathered it all. Theirs was an unshakable union, and while duty or adventure might separate them for even years a time, they always returned to one another. Her friends would marvel at how secure in this Jaheira seemed to be, especially considering her initial reluctance, but she would chuckle when thinking back on those first cautious days. After all, she and ______ had literally been to the hells and back, and when the gods themselves couldn't separate the two, what were simple months and miles going to do? She lived long and well. Not always with ______, but never truly apart from him.

Best romance in a Bioware game ever (don't dare argue with me. ).

You don't always have to be together, and Bioware has said that just because you wont be together in Awakening doesn't necessarily mean you'll never be together again.

That application works for one of the romance options. It doesn't, however, work for them all. I think the biggest issue with all this is that the game seems to lack any real continuation from the end of DA:O to DA:A. Characters such as Zevran and Leliana will require (dependant on ending) a lot of explanation as to why they left.

.

That is interesting, because I felt that the description worked well for Leliana. Differing opinions, I guess.

Did anyone actually romance Zevran for anything other than the achievement/trophy?

[shedevil3001]

nope afraid not he was just too arrogant i chose alistair every time as he was more deep and sensitive a much more appropriate choice to romance than zevran

[Suilebhain]

Dethanos wrote...

I don't recall any romances from that game either. Actually, I don't recall "romances" being a big part of any good games before DA:O, and they really didn't add anything to the story. Seriously, it's just a few lines of cheesy dialogue tacked onto the influence system. Personally, I'm glad I won't have to endure any more of that dreck in the expansion. "Romance" is a waste of time and energy best spent elsewhere.

I am guessing that you never played Knights of the Old Republic, then. Romance was nearly vital in the plot, when one considers the dangers of indulging in emotion when faced by the potential of slipping into the Dark Side.

[shedevil3001]

that and if it were real life if you were about to face a dangerous life threatening situation most men would go have a roll in the sack before they might die so it makes the game feel more real

[Schurge]

If my character invested so much in Morrigan, why would he want to go romance someone else six months later when he declared his new life goal was to find her again?

I think and hope that there is no romances because they know fans don't like it when you completely drop past romances (see Mass Effect II) and the romances with the old members will continue in a direct sequel. I assure you my character won't be looking at other women anytime soon, if at all.

[Rohx]

this reminds me of the first expantion for Nwn. it will be ok.

we love romances so much, why do they keep not adding them to the expantions.



i dont care if its rushed or anything, maybe is just lust, for example you go to bar, you meet a girl, you like her enogh, and you move on.



i think its the dame thing in a world is about to end.

im about to die , you are about to die, lets have some fun before everything is over, and if we dont die well see.



the romances in DA:O could start and coud end. before finishing the game.

same thing, i dont know why they could not add a couple of lines with a conpanion a use the same animation for the intimate part as in DA:O.



But thats just me and maybe a lot of other fans of Bioware, for some reason Bioware should have the rule of we need to have a romance even it is bad and rushed in all our games. or our fans will torch our company!

[Rohx]

something to add.

I remembering my expirience with a few of the RPGs in the last few years.

Drakensang, good game fun clishe story, grate companions but something was missing.

you know it i was not able to romance anyone, and you know what at the end of the day, i hope they add some romances for the drakensang 2 the precuel.



The Witcher, grate game, fun exiting story, mature. the real romances where fun, i was in love i was discovering who i was in the world.

the "game" cards, were maybe out of place in that game, but you know what, it reminded me that i was like james bonds! and i enjoyed colencting them. i think it coud have been a fine game with out it, but i think i like it even more for them.



At the end of the day romanced add to a game, they never take away. so i like them makes things more personal in a story.

I dont save the world just for the worlds sake, i do it for the people i love. to protect them.

unless i role play a bastard that likes to stay alive and eventualy conquer the world.