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Modded sex scene with Miranda


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#276
Guest_Luc0s_*

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Ailith430 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...
Yes, we should be beyond that. But changing every squad-member in Mass Effect just so everyone can romance them doesn't make a whole lot sense. I am openminded towards sex(uallity), but the fact is that the majority of humanity is still straight. Changing 50% of Shepard's squad to bisexual just doesn't make sense.


Everyone keeps using the word "bisexual".

Why do they have to be bi? Why cant they be straight or gay depending on the PC and how they want to play their game?

Make the characters sexuality ambigous is all I'm saying, no nessicarily "bisexual".

Yeled wrote...

Right.  The idea isn't to make all
characters bi.  The idea is to let the player choose to romance
whomever they like.  So if in my game I want to pursue a m/m
relationship with Jacob or a f/f relationship with Miranda,
Jacob/Miranda can be homosexual.  Meanwhile, in a game where a player
prefers m/f relationships, Jacob and Miranda can be straight.

This isn't an attempt to hide the gay relationships, but to allow for player preference.

The
trick is designing the interface a bit differently.  I agree getting
hit on by everyone would be kinda lame.  So let the players make
choices that flag dialogue options the game can pick up on, or simply
mark potential romance options so players can choose them.


Exactly, lol


Sorry, but that just wouldn't make much sense. I see what you're getting at here, I see what you're trying, but it would just feel weird. You're playing commander Shepard and you have (almost) full control over what commander Shepard does, wants and thinks. But if the player would also get the power to make decisions for the NPC's (squad-mates) or decide who/what they are, it would be just lame. This is Mass Effect, not The Sims...

#277
Sphynx118

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Ailith430 wrote...

Alexandus wrote...

Aradace wrote...

I seriously hope BW doesnt start giving fan service to the "gay" community. Seriously, (Asari aside and talking about RL anyway.) had nature intended for Humans to be "gay" they would have made it so that we can reproduce Asexually like the Asari. But, seeing as how (aside from adoption or artificial insemination) nature doesnt work that way, it makes homosexuality "wrong" from a nature standpoint.


I agree. To differ from the Natural Order is to be without purpose, to be defective. As an Athiest, my beliefs on this topic do not stem from blind "faith", but rather from a desire to adhere to the refining chaos which is natural selection and the natural order.


But homosexuality occurs quite often in nature, so whos to say it doesnt have a purpose? Population control seems like a viable explination.

You really want homsexuality to just be a prevention for overpopulation? I thought you were gay or atleast bi :P That sounds very negative imo 

#278
Valmy

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Ailith430 wrote...
NO, it doesnt. Like Ive said about 50 times already in this thread, a persons sexualuality doesnt define them.


Well...it certainly can if that person decides it will.

#279
Nozybidaj

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Sphynx118 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Come on, there is no way Miranda hasn't at least "experimented" in her time. :P She might not have been a f/f Ll in ME2 but I could completely see her character at least being interested in someone like FemShep.

Not every person is bi. So no she probably hasnt


I could see Miranda being drawn to a powerful person like Shep regardless of whether they are Male/Female.  To me it would just seem very in character for her.  Not so much for other characters, but definitely Miranda.  So yeah I would probably say she has.

#280
newcomplex

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If your an atheist, the natural order has no relevance. It doesn't matter, its just a set of mathematical equations encoded in our DNA. Adherence to natural order is a construction built by society, through our genetic preferences, made to help pass along our DNA.

Your not an Atheist, your god is evolution. Evolution has no will, it has no design, it has no purpose. Blindly following something that is insentient, imperfect, and random is as illogical as following a book some guy wrote. Evolution is a law to be manipulated, not followed.

To reject a god is to reject external meaning, unless said meaning is factually connected to your internal stream of consciousness (or information rather). Nothing has ever qualified for the latter.    Internal meaning says a few thing things.    To reproduce, to live, to eat, and lastly, to think of your own accord.    You follow rules, laws, to ensure your functionality in society.   You do these things because hey, why not.     Its not like death is any more meaningful then life, or any less meaningful.    It simply is, just as life simply is, and you might as well go along with it.   

Saying "I'm just going to listen to natural selection" is a ****ing religion.    It is the definition of religion.   It has no more relavence to your internal state of consciousness, or the only one that matters, because it occurs over the course of hundreds of thousands of years, as the position of celestial bodies.    In fact, it has less relavence, at least the moon makes tides, and tides are enjoyable, you can collect crabs and crabs are yummy.    

If I'm following a natural law irrelevent to my existence, I might as well divine the position of uranus to tell me what to eat tommorow, both are equally as logical from an athiests perspective.

Your not an atheist, you believe in god, and he isn't even an infallible personification of infinity made into terms humanitity can comprehend, hes just a pattern.    A pattern we've noticed 150 years ago.    You know what else we noticed 150 years ago?    That the universe ended after our solar system, though i guess we correctly identified we werent at the center of it.    

Sorry, even christians are better then darwinists.   

I'm not saying evolution isn't true.    It probably is, more or less.    But it isn't some infallible god, as you make it out to be, its a mere pattern which holds no relavence on our daily existence.     A mere pattern which we understand very little about.   

Modifié par newcomplex, 19 février 2010 - 09:54 .


#281
Yeled

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Sphynx118 wrote...

So you want a "Turn on/off gay romances" switch?


Hrm.  Damn your insightfulness.  Philosophically no, I don't.  But I suppose it amounts to that.  Here's the rub: I wouldn't want it to be found in the options menu.  It can be done easily enough through the regular game interface.  It becomes just another player choice.

#282
Aradace

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The Angry One wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Alexandus wrote...

Aradace wrote...

I seriously hope BW doesnt start giving fan service to the "gay" community. Seriously, (Asari aside and talking about RL anyway.) had nature intended for Humans to be "gay" they would have made it so that we can reproduce Asexually like the Asari. But, seeing as how (aside from adoption or artificial insemination) nature doesnt work that way, it makes homosexuality "wrong" from a nature standpoint.


I agree. To differ from the Natural Order is to be without purpose, to be defective. As an Athiest, my beliefs on this topic do not stem from blind "faith", but rather from a desire to adhere to the refining chaos which is natural selection and the natural order.


Holy towering infernoes batman!!! Someone who gets it!!! lol Seriously, thank you for finding the words I could not.


I assume neither of you use antibiotics then, or man made medicine in general. Or approve of aiding the elderly, infirm or disabled.
Natural selection must trump all, man.


Actually I dont for the most part...Other than Iodine/peroxide to treat wounds.  When I get sick, I let nature take it's course in that regard and my body purges what needs to be purged.  Aiding the elderly, infirmed, or disabled, is a no go because I have the "Spartan" mentality on this subject.  They are defective, therefore serve no purpose.  The Spartans though would toss them away to die.  Me, however, I just leave them be to let natural selection run it's due course.

#283
Sphynx118

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newcomplex wrote...

If your an atheist, the natural order has no relevance. It doesn't matter, its just a set of mathematical equations encoded in our DNA. Adherence to natural order is a construction built by society, through our genetic preferences, made to help pass along our DNA.

Your not an Atheist, your god is evolution. Evolution has no will, it has no design, it has no purpose. Blindly following something that is insentient, imperfect, and random is as illogical as following a book some guy wrote. Evolution is a law to be manipulated, not followed.

To reject a god is to reject external meaning, unless said meaning is factually connected to your internal stream of consciousness (or information rather). Nothing has ever qualified for the latter.

...wat

#284
The Angry One

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Aradace wrote...

Actually I dont for the most part...Other than Iodine/peroxide to treat wounds.  When I get sick, I let nature take it's course in that regard and my body purges what needs to be purged.  Aiding the elderly, infirmed, or disabled, is a no go because I have the "Spartan" mentality on this subject.  They are defective, therefore serve no purpose.  The Spartans though would toss them away to die.  Me, however, I just leave them be to let natural selection run it's due course.


So you're a horrible human being, but a consistent horrible human being. Fair enough.

#285
Sphynx118

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Aradace wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Alexandus wrote...

Aradace wrote...

I seriously hope BW doesnt start giving fan service to the "gay" community. Seriously, (Asari aside and talking about RL anyway.) had nature intended for Humans to be "gay" they would have made it so that we can reproduce Asexually like the Asari. But, seeing as how (aside from adoption or artificial insemination) nature doesnt work that way, it makes homosexuality "wrong" from a nature standpoint.


I agree. To differ from the Natural Order is to be without purpose, to be defective. As an Athiest, my beliefs on this topic do not stem from blind "faith", but rather from a desire to adhere to the refining chaos which is natural selection and the natural order.


Holy towering infernoes batman!!! Someone who gets it!!! lol Seriously, thank you for finding the words I could not.


I assume neither of you use antibiotics then, or man made medicine in general. Or approve of aiding the elderly, infirm or disabled.
Natural selection must trump all, man.


Actually I dont for the most part...Other than Iodine/peroxide to treat wounds.  When I get sick, I let nature take it's course in that regard and my body purges what needs to be purged.  Aiding the elderly, infirmed, or disabled, is a no go because I have the "Spartan" mentality on this subject.  They are defective, therefore serve no purpose.  The Spartans though would toss them away to die.  Me, however, I just leave them be to let natural selection run it's due course.

So you wouldnt cure cancer if it would save your life?

#286
Cutlass Jack

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tmp7704 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Kelly Chambers:  "It is the character of a person that matters.  Not race or gender."

And sexual orientation is part of being "a person", unrelated to their race or gender. Ergo, changing that orientation creates a different person.

Now, you can still like this new, different person but there's no basis to insist they're absolutely the same character they were before.


So you're saying the majority of what defines a person's character is sexual preference?
 
Most people have preference for hair color or skin color, age or any number of factors having nothing to do with sex. But those are in no way addressed in the game. Even the most butt ugly male Shepard is considered the 'Best Humanity Has to offer' by Miranda, and she wants to have Steamy Engine Room sex with them. 

But gender...that stretches believability.

#287
gemc123

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Aradace wrote...

Actually I dont for the most part...Other than Iodine/peroxide to treat wounds.  When I get sick, I let nature take it's course in that regard and my body purges what needs to be purged.  Aiding the elderly, infirmed, or disabled, is a no go because I have the "Spartan" mentality on this subject.  They are defective, therefore serve no purpose.  The Spartans though would toss them away to die.  Me, however, I just leave them be to let natural selection run it's due course.


Well ain't that peachy.

#288
Aradace

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Sphynx118 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Alexandus wrote...

Aradace wrote...

I seriously hope BW doesnt start giving fan service to the "gay" community. Seriously, (Asari aside and talking about RL anyway.) had nature intended for Humans to be "gay" they would have made it so that we can reproduce Asexually like the Asari. But, seeing as how (aside from adoption or artificial insemination) nature doesnt work that way, it makes homosexuality "wrong" from a nature standpoint.


I agree. To differ from the Natural Order is to be without purpose, to be defective. As an Athiest, my beliefs on this topic do not stem from blind "faith", but rather from a desire to adhere to the refining chaos which is natural selection and the natural order.


Holy towering infernoes batman!!! Someone who gets it!!! lol Seriously, thank you for finding the words I could not.


I assume neither of you use antibiotics then, or man made medicine in general. Or approve of aiding the elderly, infirm or disabled.
Natural selection must trump all, man.


Actually I dont for the most part...Other than Iodine/peroxide to treat wounds.  When I get sick, I let nature take it's course in that regard and my body purges what needs to be purged.  Aiding the elderly, infirmed, or disabled, is a no go because I have the "Spartan" mentality on this subject.  They are defective, therefore serve no purpose.  The Spartans though would toss them away to die.  Me, however, I just leave them be to let natural selection run it's due course.

So you wouldnt cure cancer if it would save your life?


No, I wouldnt...Unlike the population at large, I have no fear of dying...If nature deems me "unworthy" by afflicting me with cancer then so be it.  If someone puts a gun to my head tomorrow and pulls the trigger, so be it.  (Dealt with alot of death in my family growing up. A death nearly every year from 10-19 years old so Im pretty desensitized to it.)

#289
Kaorunandrak

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Sphynx118 wrote...

I just gotta ask :P How did your parents decide who was gonna be the father in the relationship? Just curiosity. No offense meant Image IPB


Well since My mom was the one who birthed me(She has a husband who beat the crap out of her and gave her two kids me and my older sister) The she kinda covers the mom part down pat dont you think? So that leave her partner to be my father especialy seeing as how she taught me everything I would expect a father to teach their son/child. taught me how to fight, taught me how to play street hockey, taught me how to draw, taught me who to build things and use tools, taught me how to work on our 1969 Oldsmobile cutlass supreme, and taught me how to play football. And seeing how was being scouted by UT before I injured my knee I'd say she did a good job.

And I'll have to go digging through the forums for the right gay thread it was posted in but I swear I saw a dev posting about the cannon shep being male and that the vast majority of Mass effect universe especialy regarding characters has already been penned even before ME2 and ME3 games were ebing developed. the only thing that wasnt penned was the actual ingame conversations that was fleshed out and added to/cut during development. But the fact Miranda is straight was already established prior to ME2

#290
Ailith Tycane

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Luc0s wrote...
Sorry,
but that just wouldn't make much sense. I see what you're getting at
here, I see what you're trying, but it would just feel weird. You're
playing commander Shepard and you have (almost) full control over what
commander Shepard does, wants and thinks. But if the player would also
get the power to make decisions for the NPC's (squad-mates) or decide
who/what they are, it would be just lame. This is Mass Effect, not The
Sims...


But the player already has power over
their squadmates in such a way. What you say and do effects how their
particular story will unfold throughout your game, so why not having what you say or do allows for a romance?

Sphynx118 wrote...
You really want homsexuality to just be a prevention for overpopulation? I thought you were gay or atleast bi :P That sounds very negative imo 


I am bisexual, and looking at the topic from a scientific standpoint, that seems to make the most sense. Having studied human sexuality extensively in school, it's been proven that homosexuality develops from a lack of particular hormones in the womb, and is NOT a choice and it's NOT genetic. So looking at it from an evolutionary standpoint, thats the explination that makes the most sense. What would you rather have me say?

#291
tmp7704

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Ailith430 wrote...

NO, it doesnt. Like Ive said about 50 times already in this thread, a persons sexualuality doesnt define them.

Can you explain exactly why it doesn't define the character?

The way i see it, it's a part of character's definition as it shapes their preferences and the way they see things. A character with preference towards certain gender is likely to treat characters of that gender in certain manner. Without this preference their treatment (as well as motivations for that treatment) is given to be different.

#292
The Angry One

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That's the fundamental thing with someone like Miranda, she's fascinated by Shepard to the point she wants sex.. but not if Shep is female... because.. why? Because it ain't right? No, it's perfectly okay if that's what you want.

ManShep and FemShep's achievements and personality vary little with regards to what Miranda admires, so what? It feels like an arbitrary block.

#293
Yeled

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Nozybidaj wrote...

I could see Miranda being drawn to a powerful person like Shep regardless of whether they are Male/Female.  To me it would just seem very in character for her.  Not so much for other characters, but definitely Miranda.  So yeah I would probably say she has.


I agree.  My sense is Miranda is attracted to strength.  She admires Shepard, because Shepard was not genetically engineered to be great.  Shepard made him/herself great because of who Shep is.

To me, I think its much more in Miranda's character to be attracted to Shep's strength rather than Shep's gender.

#294
Mondo47

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Oh, this monster rears its head again... ok, my two cents - feel free to disagree.

Ok, for the record, I'm straight and I have no issue with homosexuality - be it in real life or in mass media entertainment. I'm all for it; I have gay and lesbian friends, it doesn't bother me, if folk want to do, I say go do. Whatever you can do to have a good time, let's get on with it as long as it doesn't cause a murder, as Frank Zappa used to say. We're not here to argue the ethics of homosexuality out in the really real world or pump up our collective machismo - this is a gaming forum. In the game, sure, out of it, no. Not the place, even if people bring it into the room. It's like getting your sex toys out in front of your grandparents. No, just... not here.

Way back in ME1 I wanted to make a gay space hero. Why? Because as far as I know it hadn't been done. If this adventure game had so much variation, I thought it might make a change from yet another square-jawed catnip-for-women-from-all-planets James T. My Shep would show those green space sirens a thing or two, by not really caring about them! Hahah! I'd read all the hooha about the game and it having sexual relationships in it, so I thought I'd have a crack at pushing it as far from the 'norm' as possible. Plus, since the adventure was so cinematic, I thought it would be fun to have a flamboyant, charismatic Freddie Mercury of the future kicking ass and taking names as opposed to some generic hetro-hero. I thought it would be something different, and above all, something I'd not seen before in the whole space-opera genre thing. Well, didn't get my chance, did I? I did get the mustache though.

I didn't mind; games only have so much in the way of variables they can cram in. So instead I made a female space captain who had a romance with a blue alien gal - Kirk would be so proud. Only, well, she's not really a woman. She might look like one, but she isn't. It's like calling a whale a fish; swims in water like a fish, totally different. The sex isn't even sex - it's a macguffin 'linking of nervous systems'. While they got naked, they didn't have to, they could have just held hands to do it. It made for more appealing cinema though; it put it in a context that didn't make the audience go "wtf?"

Literally speaking, in my book there is no non-hetro relationship in ME1. If people choose to interpret it that way, fine - nothing wrong with that at all. So ME2 rolls around, and we get Kelly, who is to me at least a mite too, well, overt in her interest in Shepard. I was convinced she was a mole put there by TIM (much like I thought Conrad Verner was going to use that picture and my signature in ME1 to make some kind of 'Shep hates aliens' propaganda to get me air-quoted at again) , but instead she just wanted to get in any Shep's jumpsuit. Kelly I can happily accept as bisexual, being human and all, and not once have I romanced her. I can't even get her to feed my damn fish, never mind this lapdancing lark! I obviously fail at being Shep regardless of how much ass I kick...

Insofar as the actual love interests in the second game go, none of them step away from the hetro-allignment (save Morinth/Samara, if you choose to read Asari that way). I was afraid Jack would be yet another bisexual-bad-grrrl, but she wasn't (with a Femme-Shep at least). Good job, Bioware (though not so good at allowing female Shepards to talk to her, but that's another forum thread). That would have been a stereotype too far for me. As far as the other romances are concerned, I've played through them all with the exception of Miranda (who I'll get to once I'm done with my current playthrough - I'm chasing the prize ;) ) Morinth and Thane. The romances are to many fans an extremely integral part of the ongoing Shepard storyline, and as with the Asari thing, it's only natural for people to want things a particular way to suit their own preferences. The thing is, as much as we feel like it's our story to play out, it isn't. It's the guys at Bioware's.

We're just along for the ride. Face it. We might get to make crucial choices along the way, disregard one love interest over another, talk tough when we want to, be merciful where we feel the need, but the story still has one way to go - to Mass Effect 3. If they want to allow us to make Shep bi/gay/lesbian/I break for Rachni, they will do. I can see why some people would want to play a particular sexuality for a character in a game where intimate relationships play such a large role, and if that spins off into fanfic, art, mods, whatever, it's still not causing a murder. The internet is big enough to let everyone play, voice their opinions, etc. in a way that suits the enviroment. In the end though, it's not our call. We can ask for it if we want it, and if we do and get it, groovy. If Shepard can have a gay/lesbian romance, cool, it won't stop me enjoying the game or make me enjoy it more. But the story for now has lined the existant characters out sexually - not much that can be done, and setting one another on fire isn't going to make it all better for either side of the argument. Whatever we want Shep to be, and all the other characters that are along for the ride with him, it's out of our hands; no more than we can change characters in a movie. Shepard will never though be an extension of ourselves in the end, because we're not in control of the typewriter.

Sorry for going on... my posts are turning into digital diazepam ;)

#295
Reclusiarch

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This thread will go downhill fast. :o

EDIT: And then an insightful post comes along and makes my point moot. :)

Modifié par WinterJedi, 19 février 2010 - 09:49 .


#296
Sphynx118

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Aradace wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Alexandus wrote...

Aradace wrote...

I seriously hope BW doesnt start giving fan service to the "gay" community. Seriously, (Asari aside and talking about RL anyway.) had nature intended for Humans to be "gay" they would have made it so that we can reproduce Asexually like the Asari. But, seeing as how (aside from adoption or artificial insemination) nature doesnt work that way, it makes homosexuality "wrong" from a nature standpoint.


I agree. To differ from the Natural Order is to be without purpose, to be defective. As an Athiest, my beliefs on this topic do not stem from blind "faith", but rather from a desire to adhere to the refining chaos which is natural selection and the natural order.


Holy towering infernoes batman!!! Someone who gets it!!! lol Seriously, thank you for finding the words I could not.


I assume neither of you use antibiotics then, or man made medicine in general. Or approve of aiding the elderly, infirm or disabled.
Natural selection must trump all, man.


Actually I dont for the most part...Other than Iodine/peroxide to treat wounds.  When I get sick, I let nature take it's course in that regard and my body purges what needs to be purged.  Aiding the elderly, infirmed, or disabled, is a no go because I have the "Spartan" mentality on this subject.  They are defective, therefore serve no purpose.  The Spartans though would toss them away to die.  Me, however, I just leave them be to let natural selection run it's due course.

So you wouldnt cure cancer if it would save your life?


No, I wouldnt...Unlike the population at large, I have no fear of dying...If nature deems me "unworthy" by afflicting me with cancer then so be it.  If someone puts a gun to my head tomorrow and pulls the trigger, so be it.  (Dealt with alot of death in my family growing up. A death nearly every year from 10-19 years old so Im pretty desensitized to it.)

You do know that by accepting death you are infact breaking the rules inprinted in your DNA? :P Survival is a basic urge like sex. And you seem to lack it?

#297
Aradace

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WinterJedi wrote...

This thread will go downhill fast. :o

EDIT: And then an insightful post comes along and makes my point moot. :)


What makes you think it hasnt already? lol

#298
CmdrFenix83

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Valmy wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...
Any Christian or Jew should rightfully be against it.  Just sayin'.


Why would they be against Miranda and femshep having sex?  It quite clearly says only M/M is an abomination.


Ok now that I'm done laughing... you have a point there!  :lol:  That's right, according to that passage, gay men is wrong, but lesbians are A-Okay! :lol:

#299
The Angry One

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Kaorunandrak wrote...

And I'll have to go digging through the forums for the right gay thread it was posted in but I swear I saw a dev posting about the cannon shep being male and that the vast majority of Mass effect universe especialy regarding characters has already been penned even before ME2 and ME3 games were ebing developed. the only thing that wasnt penned was the actual ingame conversations that was fleshed out and added to/cut during development. But the fact Miranda is straight was already established prior to ME2


No dev has to my knowledge ever said that. There's a difference between canon and default.
The comics that lead up to ME2 for instance go to great lengths to keep Shepard gender neutral whenever s/he is mentioned, if Sheploo were canon that wouldn't be necesarry.

#300
Terraneaux

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God damn could we stop the atheism/homosexual discussion here, and if it continues could a mod lock the thread? The arguments here are making me cringe.



As far as Miranda being bi, she totally is, at least for femShep. She might not be willing to admit it, but... she is. And that's just my opinion. On the subject of homosexual relationships in roleplaying games, I say toss em in. And just have actively gay characters, dammit. I'm a straight male but seriously, you gotta throw the gay guys and the chicks who are in to that sort of thing a few bones (pun totally intended). I hope they don't begrudge me my gratuitous lesbians in lots of works of fiction either.