155 réponses à ce sujet

[Railstay]

Johnters wrote...

Railstay wrote...

Johnters wrote...

But didn't Miranda say that she actually wasn't the first engineered daughter?  And he's also managed to replicate the same results.  With the way the Shadow Broker works, I doubt he's really that interested in protecting his legacy like Okeer with Grunt.

However, if it was one of the Shadow Broker's proxies, I could see that.  Or Alliance brass.

Wonder why we didn't hear a lot from Hackett? 

Miranda never mentions she was the first, but if she wasn't, then why would she mention Oriana and not someone that came before her?  And if the Shadow Broker isn't interested in her, why would he be going after both her and Oriana?  And give explicit orders to the mercenaries during her loyalty mission that Miranda is not to be harmed under any circumstances?

She says herself that she was the first one he "kept," which implies a sentimentality that I just don't think the Shadow Broker has.  Also, it's heavily implied that the Shadow Broker doesn't have any real ideologicial leaning (he tried to sell Shepard to the Collectors), and the Volus agent in the 1st game talks about it ultimately creating a balance in power between all the states.  Plus the fact that she's a carbon copy of one person's DNA, which means her father is an egomaniac.  I'd think that the Shadow Broker would be more inclined to use a composite DNA, utilising the best of multiple specimens.

Like I said, it's far more likely that's it's one of his closer proxies than the actual Shadow 
Broker.  A proxy/agent would have a smaller view of things and would be more likely to let their ego/sentiment make them forfeit any of their ultimate beliefs in a cause.  In the same vein as what goes down in the Ascension novel.

What evidence is there that the Shadow Broker lacks sentimentality?  Trying to discern his feelings is pure conjecture, but trying to make sense of the actions the characters take has some validity.  It makes sense that Miranda would look to Cerberus for protection, and that the Shadow Broker also seems to refuse to take any action against the Illusive Man despite being at odds with one another.  If the Shadow Broker didn't have any ideological leaning, why would he have donated money to Cerberus in the first place?  By selling Shepard's body to the Collectors, the Shadow Broker could have gained a different sort of leverage.  The trade might have been for technology, or a way to locate the Collector base somehow.  Him and the Illusive Man could share the same goals, but simply have a difference of opinion in how to approach them.

Also, Miranda is not a carbon copy of her father.  If you press her about it, she says that he was the basis, but genes from various other people were also incorporated into her.  By saying she's the first one he kept could easily mean she was the first successful embryo.

It's possible that her father could be someone that simply works for the Shadow Broker, but if it was simply an associate's daughter who defected from his organization, how close would he have to be to that associate to cut off all ties with Cerberus?

Modifié par Railstay, 19 février 2010 - 09:54 .

[tvai]

I'm Miranda's father!

[Draconis6666]

the shadow broker CANNOT be human he existed behind the scenes in galactic society before humanity even encountered the turians. Its got to be something long lived like an Asari, or an organization made up of a  group of people, or an AI it cannot be a short lived or recently discovered race.

Modifié par Draconis6666, 19 février 2010 - 09:51 .

[Jeremy Winston]

Railstay wrote...

Also, Miranda is not a carbon copy of her father.  If you press her about it, she says that he was the basis, but genes from various other people were also incorporated into her.  By saying she's the first one she kept could easily mean she was the first successful embryo.

From her anger during this section, my impression was that there were plenty of other "embryos" but none of them ended up working out and were destroyed, possible as young children.  Kind of like Okeer and his Krogan.

[Terraneaux]

Draconis6666 wrote...

the shadow broker CANNOT be human he existed behind the scenes in galactic society before humanity even encountered the turians. Its got to be something long lived like an Asari, or an organization made up of a  group of people, or an AI it cannot be a short lived or recently discovered race.

THIS god damn the Shadow Broker is not human.

[Jeremy Winston]

I will be very disappointed if TIM turns out to be her father. What kind of lousy story telling is that?

[Railstay]

Draconis6666 wrote...

the shadow broker CANNOT be human he existed behind the scenes in galactic society before humanity even encountered the turians. Its got to be something long lived like an Asari, or an organization made up of a  group of people, or an AI it cannot be a short lived or recently discovered race.

Proof?  Not saying you're wrong, but I'd like a source to nail down the Shadow Broker's age.

Also, since the nature of the Shadow Broker itself is also very vague (organization, individual, etc), we can only judge from the basis of Miranda's motives and actions, and subsequently the actions taken by both the Illusive Man and the Shadow Broker.  If the Shadow Broker has existed for a very long time, it can easily be a title one person inherits after another.  This would be consistent with Miranda describing how she is part of a dynastic line and plan.

[Kerilus]

Whoever her father is, it does raise a curious question...if you choose to destroy the Collector base, then Miranda resigns, which means she's not gonna have TIM/Cerberus watch her back. So how could she protect her sis or herself from her dad anymore?

[Llandaryn]

The Shadow Broker.

I like to think that the Shadow Broker wouldn't be stupid enough to create all but a clone of himself, thereby pointing the genetic finger at himself for anybody looking at Miranda's DNA.

[Jeremy Winston]

Kerilus wrote...

Whoever her father is, it does raise a curious question...if you choose to destroy the Collector base, then Miranda resigns, which means she's not gonna have TIM/Cerberus watch her back. So how could she protect her sis or herself from her dad anymore?

Shhhh!

[SirEmilCrane]

TIM is Miranda's father, massive Xanatos gambit. She thinks that she is safe and TIM is protecting her but really he has them all right where he wants them.

[Dreadwraithe]

I thought about this possibility as well (Shadow Broker father for Miranda), but pretty much dismissed it as quickly.  The reason that the Broker most likely broke off ties was due to Cerberus' intensifying pro-human antics and how they were becoming more and more rogue, intensifying to the point where Cerberus severed its (official) ties to the Alliance military.  If I were the Shadow Broker, and I was a non-human, once the antics got out of hand it would only make good business sense to stop funding them -- if word ever got out that I was funding pro-human-radicals, it would be bad for business with all of the other races to say the least.
Also, the Broker seems to have been around for centuries, and as long as it has been the same individual we are most likely looking at either an Asari or Krogan.  I like the Krogan race quite a bit, and having a Krogan that was the mastermind behind the largest information-broker ring in the galaxy would be great (who would ever suspect a KROGAN to be the Broker?), however, it is more likely that an Asari is, and if my money were to be put on one Asari it would be the Consort. 

The Consort is in a position of repsect and reverance with many thousands of people, and the money she rakes in each year would be staggering.  She probably gave ALL of her clients an ancient alien pendant (like the one she gave to Shepard in ME1), stating that she had no idea what it was, but one day you might find out...  yeah right!   It's more likely to be some sort of recording device that she used to gather information from her high-profile clients.  By giving a bug to her clients, she would not have to rely solely on having them "Embrace Eternity" with her to get said information.  And once she had that info (from bug or "embrace"), she could sell that information to others with no ties leading back to her.  The Turian General from ME1 most likely obtained the information on the Elcor diplomat from the Shadow Broker, and since the Elcor had only confided that info to the Consort...

Also, now that Liara is actively hunting the Shadow Broker, there is an interesting bit of info on the Citadel news network:  the Consort is most likely going to leave the Citadel due to bad press and rumors about info leaks from the clients visiting her.  Or maybein reality it's because Liara is hot on her trail and the Consort would rather be hiding on some obscure system rather than staying in her high-profile suite on the Presidium.

Oh, and since we are talking about fathers, I've been thinking about Liara's father....  and more specifically, that the Shadow Broker/Consort is Liara's father (in ME1 she confirms that both her mother and father were Asari, although she does not know who her father is).  That would be one gut-wrenching scene for Liara -- not only did her mother die tragically before her eyes, but the one person that she hates more than anyone else -- and has vowed to flay with her very mind -- turns out to be her father.  Does she off her own dad for the sake of revenge, or does she let him live?  The tragedy/irony of it is that by trying to avenge the events of Redemption she is becoming more and more like her father...  Cold-blooded, lethal, and one of the best information-brokers ever.

[FlyinElk212]

Wrong. Miranda's father is Tali.

[Bron Avery]

boardnfool86 wrote...

can't be, miranda's father is well known, wealthy and ego maniacal... the shadow broker's face never gets seen... plus Miranda's father use to give generously to cerberus

You are very observant, you are so smart! [/sarcasm]

[Bron Avery]

Kerilus wrote...

Whoever her father is, it does raise a curious question...if you choose to destroy the Collector base, then Miranda resigns, which means she's not gonna have TIM/Cerberus watch her back. So how could she protect her sis or herself from her dad anymore?

Your right, sucks for her.

[Johnters]

Railstay wrote...

Johnters wrote...

She says herself that she was the first one he "kept," which implies a sentimentality that I just don't think the Shadow Broker has.  Also, it's heavily implied that the Shadow Broker doesn't have any real ideologicial leaning (he tried to sell Shepard to the Collectors), and the Volus agent in the 1st game talks about it ultimately creating a balance in power between all the states.  Plus the fact that she's a carbon copy of one person's DNA, which means her father is an egomaniac.  I'd think that the Shadow Broker would be more inclined to use a composite DNA, utilising the best of multiple specimens.

Like I said, it's far more likely that's it's one of his closer proxies than the actual Shadow 
Broker.  A proxy/agent would have a smaller view of things and would be more likely to let their ego/sentiment make them forfeit any of their ultimate beliefs in a cause.  In the same vein as what goes down in the Ascension novel.

What evidence is there that the Shadow Broker lacks sentimentality?  Trying to discern his feelings is pure conjecture, but trying to make sense of the actions the characters take has some validity.  It makes sense that Miranda would look to Cerberus for protection, and that the Shadow Broker also seems to refuse to take any action against the Illusive Man despite being at odds with one another.  If the Shadow Broker didn't have any ideological leaning, why would he have donated money to Cerberus in the first place?  By selling Shepard's body to the Collectors, the Shadow Broker could have gained a different sort of leverage.  The trade might have been for technology, or a way to locate the Collector base somehow.  Him and the Illusive Man could share the same goals, but simply have a difference of opinion in how to approach them.

Also, Miranda is not a carbon copy of her father.  If you press her about it, she says that he was the basis, but genes from various other people were also incorporated into her.  By saying she's the first one she kept could easily mean she was the first successful embryo.

It's possible that her father could be someone that simply works for the Shadow Broker, but if it was simply an associate's daughter who defected from his organization, how close would he have to be to that associate to cut off all ties with Cerberus?

With the amount of information of different events that a whole galaxy would have, being an effective Intelligence organisation would require a ridiculous amount of manpower.  Even with all the agents at your disposal, there wouldn't be much time for a personal life if you're planning on staying on top.  There's no trading hours for information, which means that it requires full commitment to work like a machine.  Take the Illusive Man.  He's completely taken over by his work of giving humanity the edge.  Even though he has multiple cells doing all the legwork, he's still had to forfeit his previous life, and any display of emotion doesn't register to the casual observer, which shows a serious detachment from personal baggage.  The Shadow Broker must be on the same level.

Even Liara's cold in comparison to before.

The Shadow Broker has a long memory when it comes to holding a grudge when someone's wronged him, but that's typical of any person/organisation looking to keep their position.  

Also, Miranda was born just after the discovery of the Charon relay.  Which makes it pretty difficult for them to pull that off.

[Johnters]

Dreadwraithe wrote...

I thought about this possibility as well (Shadow Broker father for Miranda), but pretty much dismissed it as quickly.  The reason that the Broker most likely broke off ties was due to Cerberus' intensifying pro-human antics and how they were becoming more and more rogue, intensifying to the point where Cerberus severed its (official) ties to the Alliance military.  If I were the Shadow Broker, and I was a non-human, once the antics got out of hand it would only make good business sense to stop funding them -- if word ever got out that I was funding pro-human-radicals, it would be bad for business with all of the other races to say the least.
Also, the Broker seems to have been around for centuries, and as long as it has been the same individual we are most likely looking at either an Asari or Krogan.  I like the Krogan race quite a bit, and having a Krogan that was the mastermind behind the largest information-broker ring in the galaxy would be great (who would ever suspect a KROGAN to be the Broker?), however, it is more likely that an Asari is, and if my money were to be put on one Asari it would be the Consort.  

The Consort is in a position of repsect and reverance with many thousands of people, and the money she rakes in each year would be staggering.  She probably gave ALL of her clients an ancient alien pendant (like the one she gave to Shepard in ME1), stating that she had no idea what it was, but one day you might find out...  yeah right!   It's more likely to be some sort of recording device that she used to gather information from her high-profile clients.  By giving a bug to her clients, she would not have to rely solely on having them "Embrace Eternity" with her to get said information.  And once she had that info (from bug or "embrace"), she could sell that information to others with no ties leading back to her.  The Turian General from ME1 most likely obtained the information on the Elcor diplomat from the Shadow Broker, and since the Elcor had only confided that info to the Consort...

Also, now that Liara is actively hunting the Shadow Broker, there is an interesting bit of info on the Citadel news network:  the Consort is most likely going to leave the Citadel due to bad press and rumors about info leaks from the clients visiting her.  Or maybein reality it's because Liara is hot on her trail and the Consort would rather be hiding on some obscure system rather than staying in her high-profile suite on the Presidium.

Oh, and since we are talking about fathers, I've been thinking about Liara's father....  and more specifically, that the Shadow Broker/Consort is Liara's father (in ME1 she confirms that both her mother and father were Asari, although she does not know who her father is).  That would be one gut-wrenching scene for Liara -- not only did her mother die tragically before her eyes, but the one person that she hates more than anyone else -- and has vowed to flay with her very mind -- turns out to be her father.  Does she off her own dad for the sake of revenge, or does she let him live?  The tragedy/irony of it is that by trying to avenge the events of Redemption she is becoming more and more like her father...  Cold-blooded, lethal, and one of the best information-brokers ever.

I think that's the most likely identity of the Shadow Broker.  I'm also of the persuasion it could be an AI, but more on that later.  Being Liara's father is an interesting slant on it, but for me the jury's still out on that one.

Modifié par Johnters, 19 février 2010 - 10:44 .

[Bron Avery]

Dreadwraithe wrote...

I thought about this possibility as well (Shadow Broker father for Miranda), but pretty much dismissed it as quickly.  The reason that the Broker most likely broke off ties was due to Cerberus' intensifying pro-human antics and how they were becoming more and more rogue, intensifying to the point where Cerberus severed its (official) ties to the Alliance military.  If I were the Shadow Broker, and I was a non-human, once the antics got out of hand it would only make good business sense to stop funding them -- if word ever got out that I was funding pro-human-radicals, it would be bad for business with all of the other races to say the least.
Also, the Broker seems to have been around for centuries, and as long as it has been the same individual we are most likely looking at either an Asari or Krogan.  I like the Krogan race quite a bit, and having a Krogan that was the mastermind behind the largest information-broker ring in the galaxy would be great (who would ever suspect a KROGAN to be the Broker?), however, it is more likely that an Asari is, and if my money were to be put on one Asari it would be the Consort. 

The Consort is in a position of repsect and reverance with many thousands of people, and the money she rakes in each year would be staggering.  She probably gave ALL of her clients an ancient alien pendant (like the one she gave to Shepard in ME1), stating that she had no idea what it was, but one day you might find out...  yeah right!   It's more likely to be some sort of recording device that she used to gather information from her high-profile clients.  By giving a bug to her clients, she would not have to rely solely on having them "Embrace Eternity" with her to get said information.  And once she had that info (from bug or "embrace"), she could sell that information to others with no ties leading back to her.  The Turian General from ME1 most likely obtained the information on the Elcor diplomat from the Shadow Broker, and since the Elcor had only confided that info to the Consort...

Also, now that Liara is actively hunting the Shadow Broker, there is an interesting bit of info on the Citadel news network:  the Consort is most likely going to leave the Citadel due to bad press and rumors about info leaks from the clients visiting her.  Or maybein reality it's because Liara is hot on her trail and the Consort would rather be hiding on some obscure system rather than staying in her high-profile suite on the Presidium.

Oh, and since we are talking about fathers, I've been thinking about Liara's father....  and more specifically, that the Shadow Broker/Consort is Liara's father (in ME1 she confirms that both her mother and father were Asari, although she does not know who her father is).  That would be one gut-wrenching scene for Liara -- not only did her mother die tragically before her eyes, but the one person that she hates more than anyone else -- and has vowed to flay with her very mind -- turns out to be her father.  Does she off her own dad for the sake of revenge, or does she let him live?  The tragedy/irony of it is that by trying to avenge the events of Redemption she is becoming more and more like her father...  Cold-blooded, lethal, and one of the best information-brokers ever.

*claps* Never could of thought of that, makes perfect sense.

[Skilled Seeker]

All this nonsense falls flat on its face since the Shadow Broker was around before humans were on the Galactic stage. So no he is not Miranda's father and neither is he Udina.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 19 février 2010 - 10:47 .

[jklinders]

Railstay wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Railstay wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...

Railstay wrote...

The BS Police wrote...

Railstay wrote...

The BS Police wrote...

No, the Shadow Broker cannot be her Father.

What a thoughtful, enlightening post.

It's just a fact, why would the Shadow Broker support Cerberus? TIM and the Shadow Broker are enemies.

Nice job reading the posts.

Perhaps because if the Illusive Man is using her as a hostage, the Shadow Broker would be obligated to pay "donations" in order to guarantee her safety?

How would that work though?  He stopped making the donations after she joined Cerberus.

Then he stopped his support after he found out the Illusive Man made her, essentially, a hostage by accepting her employment.  Miranda even says herself that the Illusive Man found her at an early age, and she was "old enough to know this was what she wanted."  This seems to indicate she was well aware of the fact that she is a hostage, but in return she's gaining protection from her father.  Who else in the galaxy could offer her that sort of protection from one of the most powerful figures in the series?

The pieces just fit.

If you ask Miranda on what terms she left her father she says shots were fired. If that is not enough, during her loyalty mission if you press miranda on why she recued her sister, she tells you that she was not the first child "grown" by her father. Merely the first he did not discard. She also tells you she killed several of her father's security guards on the way out. Yep. She's a hostage all right.

So you take it that "shots were fired" meant that shots were fired at her.

And during the same loyalty mission you speak of, the mercs were ordered specifically not to fire on Miranda, under any circumstances.

Yeah, of course she's a hostage.

Try reading my post in full before you start typing. If you press Miranda about why she rescued her sister during the loyalty mission she will tell you about how  her father mistreated her and how she had killed several of her father's gards on the way out.

Niket was probably the reason the mercs had a do not fire order seeing as her father had left the entire operation in Niket's hands. Just becuase you think this is a coiol idea does not mean the evidence fits the facts.

[WoodWizzard87]

My guess is he is the head of one of the corporations in the galaxy. Maybe CEO of Binary Helix, Exogeni, Sirta Foundations, Aldrin Labs, Synthetic Insights?

[Railstay]

jklinders wrote...

Railstay wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Railstay wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...

Railstay wrote...

The BS Police wrote...

Railstay wrote...

The BS Police wrote...

No, the Shadow Broker cannot be her Father.

What a thoughtful, enlightening post.

It's just a fact, why would the Shadow Broker support Cerberus? TIM and the Shadow Broker are enemies.

Nice job reading the posts.

Perhaps because if the Illusive Man is using her as a hostage, the Shadow Broker would be obligated to pay "donations" in order to guarantee her safety?

How would that work though?  He stopped making the donations after she joined Cerberus.

Then he stopped his support after he found out the Illusive Man made her, essentially, a hostage by accepting her employment.  Miranda even says herself that the Illusive Man found her at an early age, and she was "old enough to know this was what she wanted."  This seems to indicate she was well aware of the fact that she is a hostage, but in return she's gaining protection from her father.  Who else in the galaxy could offer her that sort of protection from one of the most powerful figures in the series?

The pieces just fit.

If you ask Miranda on what terms she left her father she says shots were fired. If that is not enough, during her loyalty mission if you press miranda on why she recued her sister, she tells you that she was not the first child "grown" by her father. Merely the first he did not discard. She also tells you she killed several of her father's security guards on the way out. Yep. She's a hostage all right.

So you take it that "shots were fired" meant that shots were fired at her.

And during the same loyalty mission you speak of, the mercs were ordered specifically not to fire on Miranda, under any circumstances.

Yeah, of course she's a hostage.

Try reading my post in full before you start typing. If you press Miranda about why she rescued her sister during the loyalty mission she will tell you about how  her father mistreated her and how she had killed several of her father's gards on the way out.

Niket was probably the reason the mercs had a do not fire order seeing as her father had left the entire operation in Niket's hands. Just becuase you think this is a coiol idea does not mean the evidence fits the facts.

I did.  Nothing she says ever mentioned anyone firing on her.

So where's your evidence to back up the claim now?  And if Niket is the one calling the shots, why is the entire purpose of the mission to get the child back in the first place if Miranda's father approved of the mission to get both his daughters back?

How about this:  Why is it that her father remains completely unnamed, and why is the friction between the Shadow Broker and the Illusive Man emphasized?

[Railstay]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

All this nonsense falls flat on its face since the Shadow Broker was around before humans were on the Galactic stage. So no he is not Miranda's father and neither is he Udina.

That's convenient.  From what magic source can you tell me that the Shadow Broker has always been the same individual, and that the title has never changed hands?  Ever?

[keginkc]

I still buy into the theory from the original game that the shadow broker's not a single individual.



It always did strike me as odd that Miranda's father is referred-to as the wealthiest man in the galaxy, but we're never given a name. You'd think that Shepard would have some idea who that is.