155 réponses à ce sujet

[Railstay]

Dreadwraithe wrote...

I thought about this possibility as well (Shadow Broker father for Miranda), but pretty much dismissed it as quickly.  The reason that the Broker most likely broke off ties was due to Cerberus' intensifying pro-human antics and how they were becoming more and more rogue, intensifying to the point where Cerberus severed its (official) ties to the Alliance military.  If I were the Shadow Broker, and I was a non-human, once the antics got out of hand it would only make good business sense to stop funding them -- if word ever got out that I was funding pro-human-radicals, it would be bad for business with all of the other races to say the least.
Also, the Broker seems to have been around for centuries, and as long as it has been the same individual we are most likely looking at either an Asari or Krogan.  I like the Krogan race quite a bit, and having a Krogan that was the mastermind behind the largest information-broker ring in the galaxy would be great (who would ever suspect a KROGAN to be the Broker?), however, it is more likely that an Asari is, and if my money were to be put on one Asari it would be the Consort.

If the Shadow Broker is as neutral as you claim, then why would he (since I'm assuming its an individual, and Miranda's father) donate money to Cerberus in the first place?  It's not like they were some galactic non-profit organization that went extremist.  In fact, Cerberus when it was part of the Alliance was far more brutal and pro-human.  After splitting off, Cerberus has considerably moderated its views with its willingness to work with aliens.  And if the Shadow Broker had been donating to Cerberus from the beginning, he would have been giving money directly to the Alliance military -- hardly neutral behavior.

We don't know how long the Shadow Broker's been around for exactly, but I don't know why people enjoy claiming that it's been hundreds of years.  Either way, it's just as plausible for it to be an organization/individual/inherited title.  I prefer to think it's an inherited title, like the Grey Fox or the Dread Pirate Roberts.

The Consort is in a position of repsect and reverance with many thousands of people, and the money she rakes in each year would be staggering.  She probably gave ALL of her clients an ancient alien pendant (like the one she gave to Shepard in ME1), stating that she had no idea what it was, but one day you might find out...  yeah right!   It's more likely to be some sort of recording device that she used to gather information from her high-profile clients.  By giving a bug to her clients, she would not have to rely solely on having them "Embrace Eternity" with her to get said information.  And once she had that info (from bug or "embrace"), she could sell that information to others with no ties leading back to her.  The Turian General from ME1 most likely obtained the information on the Elcor diplomat from the Shadow Broker, and since the Elcor had only confided that info to the Consort...

This would be a great theory, but there's a problem.

Septimus admits that he got the dirt on Xeltan himself.  In fact Xeltan's entire questline is about proving that Shai'ra is not responsible, and you bring him proof that it was Septimus that got the information, not Shai'ra who divulged it.

Also, now that Liara is actively hunting the Shadow Broker, there is an interesting bit of info on the Citadel news network:  the Consort is most likely going to leave the Citadel due to bad press and rumors about info leaks from the clients visiting her.  Or maybein reality it's because Liara is hot on her trail and the Consort would rather be hiding on some obscure system rather than staying in her high-profile suite on the Presidium.

Possible, but weaker now that we've established that Shai'ra wasn't responsible for Xeltan's anxiety.

Oh, and since we are talking about fathers, I've been thinking about Liara's father....  and more specifically, that the Shadow Broker/Consort is Liara's father (in ME1 she confirms that both her mother and father were Asari, although she does not know who her father is).  That would be one gut-wrenching scene for Liara -- not only did her mother die tragically before her eyes, but the one person that she hates more than anyone else -- and has vowed to flay with her very mind -- turns out to be her father.  Does she off her own dad for the sake of revenge, or does she let him live?  The tragedy/irony of it is that by trying to avenge the events of Redemption she is becoming more and more like her father...  Cold-blooded, lethal, and one of the best information-brokers ever.

Liara doesn't confirm that both were asari.  In fact, she's never met her father.  She could just believe it to be the case.  I always thought her being a "pureblood" was an obvious deflection with how presenceless her "father" is.

Again, what you say is possible, but with the emphasis of friction between the Illusive Man vs the Shadow Broker, Miranda being his daughter is an easier sell.  What other explanation is there that the Shadow Broker would refuse to act on the Illusive Man for taking what has to be the most valuable sapient in the galaxy from him?  And why would the Illusive Man work so hard to completely secure Miranda's loyalty?  Read his summary report after you finish Miranda's loyalty mission.

Modifié par Railstay, 21 février 2010 - 08:02 .

[FataliTensei]

OP has an interesting theory

[trigger2kill1]

All in all a pretty damn good question. I'm sure that if the shadow broker is indeed one individual then, why couldn't it be him? I say sure sounds good unless ofcourse it does turn out to be Conrad then...well we would spend a fortune on her psy bills huh?

[flem1]

TyDurden13 wrote...

Frankly I don't know if any character we've seen or heard od in the series so far fits the bill.

Perhaps (unlikely) one of Samara's other daughters...  No one sees her in person, and she has plenty of time to do stuff.

Or Sha'ira.  Which seems the best guess until you hear that she's going off-Citadel.

[devilsgrin]

i like the idea that Miranda's father is the CEO of one of the Human Mega-Corps... particularly leaning towards ExoGeni (for their involvement in Genetic Engineering) or Sirta...(again big on the genetic engineering.. (megi-gel) though Sirta is a harder fit due to it Going Under fiscally).
I personally, from what i get through conversations with the Volus - Barla Von on the Citadel, with others, with Liara on Illium, the Shadow Broker seems to be more likely an individual, or a very small group of them, and considering her/their reach and power, with centuries of accumulated power, influence, and network of operatives a human, however rich is unlikely. Humans may feature amongst the operatives, and even may have ascended to the top, or one of those top-seats, but its unlikely that a human would be have been there for long. Miranda's father is the wealthiest man in the galaxy, its a bad cover for an information broker of the SB's scale. Far too public. My money would be on a single Shadow Broker being an Asari (Sha'ira is a hard fit, though she is an excellent information broker in her own right), or indeed, as the ultimate irony, a Krogan. A fertile female Krogan would be a VERY cool Shadow Broker... think of the legions of Krogan she could call upon if her identity were discovered. An Ardat-Yakshi in seclusion would be a person with almost limitless time to sift through all the information the galaxy can provide, if unlikely since they are psychopaths one and all. Some just don't give in to their need to burn the minds out of others.

the CEO of ExoGeni would be a great fit for Miranda's father. He genetically engineered her from primarily his own cells, but incorporated bits from others to enhance all her attributes, using the advancements his company develop on places like Noveria. He wanted to Start a dynasty, he doesn't have one yet, hence all the discarded "daughters" looking for the perfect one. Miranda proves a little too independent towards the end, so he makes another one of her to replace her... Miranda flees, violently, no there is no word of her being shot AT, but she definitely blasted her, and Oriana's way free (bullets and biotics).
The loyalty mission says to me, that the Father only wants Oriana back. He could care less about a failed experiment like Miranda. Niket, however, since HE is the only operative with links to the Father, would have been the one to set the mission parameters. Save Oriana, but don't hurt Miranda.

Modifié par devilsgrin, 21 février 2010 - 08:38 .

[NICKjnp]

Conrad Verner

[Railstay]

devilsgrin wrote...

i like the idea that Miranda's father is the CEO of one of the Human Mega-Corps... particularly leaning towards ExoGeni (for their involvement in Genetic Engineering) or Sirta...(again big on the genetic engineering.. (megi-gel) though Sirta is a harder fit due to it Going Under fiscally).
I personally, from what i get through conversations with the Volus - Barla Von on the Citadel, with others, with Liara on Illium, the Shadow Broker seems to be more likely an individual, or a very small group of them, and considering her/their reach and power, with centuries of accumulated power, influence, and network of operatives a human, however rich is unlikely. Humans may feature amongst the operatives, and even may have ascended to the top, or one of those top-seats, but its unlikely that a human would be have been there for long. Miranda's father is the wealthiest man in the galaxy, its a bad cover for an information broker of the SB's scale. Far too public. My money would be on a single Shadow Broker being an Asari (Sha'ira is a hard fit, though she is an excellent information broker in her own right), or indeed, as the ultimate irony, a Krogan. A fertile female Krogan would be a VERY cool Shadow Broker... think of the legions of Krogan she could call upon if her identity were discovered. An Ardat-Yakshi in seclusion would be a person with almost limitless time to sift through all the information the galaxy can provide, if unlikely since they are psychopaths one and all. Some just don't give in to their need to burn the minds out of others.

the CEO of ExoGeni would be a great fit for Miranda's father. He genetically engineered her from primarily his own cells, but incorporated bits from others to enhance all her attributes, using the advancements his company develop on places like Noveria. He wanted to Start a dynasty, he doesn't have one yet, hence all the discarded "daughters" looking for the perfect one. Miranda proves a little too independent towards the end, so he makes another one of her to replace her... Miranda flees, violently, no there is no word of her being shot AT, but she definitely blasted her, and Oriana's way free (bullets and biotics).
The loyalty mission says to me, that the Father only wants Oriana back. He could care less about a failed experiment like Miranda. Niket, however, since HE is the only operative with links to the Father, would have been the one to set the mission parameters. Save Oriana, but don't hurt Miranda.

Consider that the Shadow Broker is an inherited title, and the drive to create a dynasty makes sense.  For a corporation with public stocks ruled by a board of directors (as confirmed in ME1 on Noveria), that theory begins to lose ground.  Also, Niket says that he was specifically chosen because of Miranda's trust in him, and that Niket could use that trust to get Miranda back if possible.

Also, if Miranda's father is simply the head of a corporation, why not simply mention it?  Obviously the game makes it a point never to place or name her father for a reason.  So with what in-game evidence we have, what is more of a motivation for plot development for keeping Miranda's father in the dark?  The reveal that he's the Shadow Broker, or that he is the head of ExoGeni?

[TyDurden13]

flem1 wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...

Frankly I don't know if any character we've seen or heard od in the series so far fits the bill.

Perhaps (unlikely) one of Samara's other daughters...  No one sees her in person, and she has plenty of time to do stuff.

Or Sha'ira.  Which seems the best guess until you hear that she's going off-Citadel.

Oh, yeah, actually Shi'era (Consort from ME1) is actually my personal gues for the Shadow Broker's identity.  What I as talking about in my post was Miranda's father  - I don't think it's anyone we've met or heard of yet.

[jklinders]

Miranda was born 7 years before the first contact war. Exactly how was the Shadow broker to be her father?

[jklinders]

Double post, stupid browser...

Modifié par jklinders, 21 février 2010 - 07:06 .

[covash]

lol you are all wrong it is chuck norris lol

[tonnactus]

Why her father want perfect daughters and not sons?Thats the interesting question.

[Railstay]

jklinders wrote...

Miranda was born 7 years before the first contact war. Exactly how was the Shadow broker to be her father?

Seeing as how everyone is claiming the Shadow Broker is some ancient entity, despite there being no evidence of how long the Shadow Broker's been around...

If the Shadow Broker is a relatively recent figure, then it makes sense.  If the Shadow Broker is someone who's been around for a long time, it still makes sense.  It could easily be a title that one person inherits after another, not a single person who's been around for centuries.

[Railstay]

tonnactus wrote...

Why her father want perfect daughters and not sons?Thats the interesting question.

It's easier for a woman to influence and extract information than it is for a man.

[dinin70]

Excuse me, but who gives a s**t about Miranda's father?

[Fjordgnu]

Why Udina, that's what I'd like to know? What evidence have I missed?



I always assumed the Shadow Broker was a Volus, or Salarian, something reminiscent of the League of One.

[Beechwell]

The only argument for Father=Shadow Broker that I find somewhat compelling is that, according to the OP

The Shadow Broker used to donate
extensively to Cerberus...  And then suddenly stopped.  Suspiciously
around the same time Miranda joined Cerberus.

But where is that information from? I can't remember ever hearing any mention about the Shadow Broker supporting Cerberus at all, much less about the specific point in time when he stopped.

And the point that Miranda was born before the First Contact war makes the theory pretty unlikely. It would only work under two scenarios: 
1. The Shadow Broker was originally a human phenomenon, only expanding over Citadel space after the war. But then why is that never mentioned, and why do aliens like Barla Von know more about the story than humans?
2. Miranda's Father wasn't the Shadow Broker at the time when he created her. But then his Identitiy as the SB had nothing to do with him being "the richest man in the galaxy", or his attempts to create an heir. So it would be just tacked on. Unlikely.

I find the TIM=Father theory has some merit. Possibly the earlier versions of her were discarded because they also tried to flee from their father's influence. That would make sense given the personality of both Miranda and her father. Then it would be the perfect ploy to provide Miranda with a fake "father" whom she can escape from, only to offer her to work for her real father at a convenient moment. And with Cerberus helping Miranda to "hide" her sister, he would even have control over his backup heir.
Of course this is only speculation; it would fit, but there is not real evidence for it.

Also, Dreadwraithe's points about Sha'ira make some sense, although I generally am not a fan of the Sha'ira=SB theory. And I think linking her to Liara's father is a bit over the top, although it would certainly make for a great "No! I am your father" scene.

EDIT:

It's easier for a woman to influence and extract information than it is for a man.

Which would be another good point for Sha'ira. As an Asari she isn't even restricted to one species. Although I doubt that the SB gathers much of his/her information himself.

Modifié par Beechwell, 21 février 2010 - 11:53 .

[PhoenixBlacke]

Or..the Illusive man IS the Shadow Broker. A man like this knows information is power, he can make anyone believe anything. I'm sure someone like the Shadow Broker would throw everyone off by all this. Heck idk, I just figured we don't know much about this Illusive man and he can build a better normandy than the whole alliance, so he must have alot of spy's and obviously wealth.

[StarcloudSWG]

My own theory is that the 'Shadow Broker' is actually the Keepers of the Citadel. Or the Citadel itself, since the Citadel *is* a Reaper construct. Not an actual Reaper, though.



Think about it. Everyone overlooks the Keepers, but they keep a watch on huge amounts of data being sent through Citadel's communications arrays and computers. There are hints that Citadel station maintains itself to some degree, so the Keepers aren't needed entirely for maintenance tasks.



The one time we see the Shadow Broker ask to buy information, its stuff that wouldn't be sent through the Citadel.



The entire concept is open enough that this theory may be completely wrong, though.

[kraidy1117]

Sigh, I take it the OP has played the games only. Cerberus was not what it is now when Humans entered the Galactic stage. Cerberus was a branch of the Alience, similar to the STGs. The ditachment most likely happened 15 or ten years before the events of ME because Cerberus was involved in the detonation of Element Zero transports, resulting in Gillien, Handel and Kaidan.



Also the Shadow Brooker can not be one person, simply because it would be very hard to handel all this information, even with it's agents. Now that does not mean that the SB does not have a leader. In a group, there is a leader and most I believe that the leader is the Consort, Mr Thax or Banes. Mr Thax and the Consort are well knowen and have alot of contacts, so getting information is not hard.



Now Banes is where we get into murky water. The reason why is because many people beleive he is TIM because of alot of evidence. However there is also evidence that Banes could be the leader of the group known as the SB. His death was most likely a fake, because as we know, a Krogan was extorting that Doctor on the Citadel and the orders came from Banes. The people who investigated his death and found his body died. Now this is where we get into murky water. As we know it was a cell of Cerberus who did and this leads to people thinking that Banes is TIM and needed to make sure that people who found out he was not dead died. However there is some strong evidence that Banes might be the leader of the SB group or part of the group. Out of no where Kakoue (spelling) goes to the SB and finds out it was Cerberus, this results in his death because Cerberus needed to make sure that no one could leak what they where doing.



When you destroy that cell of Cerberus, you are contacted by a agent of the SB. This is very fishy as this happens way to quickly. Now I have a theory and some people might find it dumb and make no sence, while others might find it interesting. Banes COULD be TIM and the SB leader or in the group. Now this brings conflict to the events with Liara. As we know the Collectors contacted the SB and wanted them to get Shepards body. All of a sudden TIM sends Miranda and a couple of Cerberus agents to find Shepards body and comes into contact with Liara, where they tell her that the Collectors got the SB to get Shepards body and give it to them.



This is very fishy. Now this is my theory. If all of this is right, I would expect that Banes (TIM) left the SB group, and most likely left Mr Thax and the Consort in charge. As we all know, Mr Thax operates in Illuim where Liara is. Mr Thax is a wealthy business man and he operates on Illuim. That is where Liara works, and since they are two of the most notable people on Illuim they might have done buisness and that is where Liara might have gotten her sectary. As we know she was a agent for the SB. Also that consort theory is what I think too.



Holy crap that is a long post....

[Schneidend]

I like the idea of Shadow Broker passing from person to person like Dread Pirate Roberts. This is one of the first far-fetched theories that I feel could actually turn out to be true.

[Midnight_Thirty]

Why would the Shadow Broker be human? In Mass Effect 1 the Shadow Broker was already an established entity in the galaxy for quite a while, and humanity was still just coming into their own. Not logical in any way.

[Railstay]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Sigh, I take it the OP has played the games only. Cerberus was not what it is now when Humans entered the Galactic stage. Cerberus was a branch of the Alience, similar to the STGs. The ditachment most likely happened 15 or ten years before the events of ME because Cerberus was involved in the detonation of Element Zero transports, resulting in Gillien, Handel and Kaidan.

Also the Shadow Brooker can not be one person, simply because it would be very hard to handel all this information, even with it's agents. Now that does not mean that the SB does not have a leader. In a group, there is a leader and most I believe that the leader is the Consort, Mr Thax or Banes. Mr Thax and the Consort are well knowen and have alot of contacts, so getting information is not hard.

Now Banes is where we get into murky water. The reason why is because many people beleive he is TIM because of alot of evidence. However there is also evidence that Banes could be the leader of the group known as the SB. His death was most likely a fake, because as we know, a Krogan was extorting that Doctor on the Citadel and the orders came from Banes. The people who investigated his death and found his body died. Now this is where we get into murky water. As we know it was a cell of Cerberus who did and this leads to people thinking that Banes is TIM and needed to make sure that people who found out he was not dead died. However there is some strong evidence that Banes might be the leader of the SB group or part of the group. Out of no where Kakoue (spelling) goes to the SB and finds out it was Cerberus, this results in his death because Cerberus needed to make sure that no one could leak what they where doing.

When you destroy that cell of Cerberus, you are contacted by a agent of the SB. This is very fishy as this happens way to quickly. Now I have a theory and some people might find it dumb and make no sence, while others might find it interesting. Banes COULD be TIM and the SB leader or in the group. Now this brings conflict to the events with Liara. As we know the Collectors contacted the SB and wanted them to get Shepards body. All of a sudden TIM sends Miranda and a couple of Cerberus agents to find Shepards body and comes into contact with Liara, where they tell her that the Collectors got the SB to get Shepards body and give it to them.

This is very fishy. Now this is my theory. If all of this is right, I would expect that Banes (TIM) left the SB group, and most likely left Mr Thax and the Consort in charge. As we all know, Mr Thax operates in Illuim where Liara is. Mr Thax is a wealthy business man and he operates on Illuim. That is where Liara works, and since they are two of the most notable people on Illuim they might have done buisness and that is where Liara might have gotten her sectary. As we know she was a agent for the SB. Also that consort theory is what I think too.

Holy crap that is a long post....

Could you explain how any of this has to do with the Shadow Broker?  It was essentially a giant post about Cerberus involvement in the Alliance.

[Railstay]

Beechwell wrote...

The only argument for Father=Shadow Broker that I find somewhat compelling is that, according to the OP

The Shadow Broker used to donate
extensively to Cerberus...  And then suddenly stopped.  Suspiciously
around the same time Miranda joined Cerberus.

But where is that information from? I can't remember ever hearing any mention about the Shadow Broker supporting Cerberus at all, much less about the specific point in time when he stopped.

Miranda mentions it when you ask her about Cerberus' resources.  One of their doners use to be the Shadow Broker.

And the point that Miranda was born before the First Contact war makes the theory pretty unlikely. It would only work under two scenarios: 
1. The Shadow Broker was originally a human phenomenon, only expanding over Citadel space after the war. But then why is that never mentioned, and why do aliens like Barla Von know more about the story than humans?
2. Miranda's Father wasn't the Shadow Broker at the time when he created her. But then his Identitiy as the SB had nothing to do with him being "the richest man in the galaxy", or his attempts to create an heir. So it would be just tacked on. Unlikely.

It's like people just really, really, really are obstinate about absolutely refusing to entertain the notion that the Shadow Broker is simply a title.  Why is it somehow more ridiculous to think the Shadow Broker is a position that can be inherited by a succession of people, but it's not outlandish to believe the Shadow Broker is an organization or some long-lived individual?  Her father could have easily inherited the role from a predecessor,
then went about trying to establish a dynasty.

Also, why does the Shadow Broker have to be a human phenomenon?  There's standard at work here with your judgement.  So if the Shadow Broker is a salarian, it wouldn't be a salarian phenomenon?  An asari would make it an asari phenomenon?  If no one knows the Shadow Broker's racial identity what difference would it make anyway?  You think a human Shadow Broker would refuse to have alien agents, so volus like Barla Von would have no idea who he is but some random human would?

I find the TIM=Father theory has some merit. Possibly the earlier versions of her were discarded because they also tried to flee from their father's influence. That would make sense given the personality of both Miranda and her father. Then it would be the perfect ploy to provide Miranda with a fake "father" whom she can escape from, only to offer her to work for her real father at a convenient moment. And with Cerberus helping Miranda to "hide" her sister, he would even have control over his backup heir.
Of course this is only speculation; it would fit, but there is not real evidence for it.

Aside from being ridiculous with no circumstantial evidence to support it.  On the other hand, when you consider that the Shadow Broker is Miranda's father, her motivations for joining Cerberus and how hard the game tries to shroud her father's identity makes sense.  It also makes sense why the Shadow Broker would refuse to take actions against the Illusive Man.  The Shadow Broker recovered Shepard's body -- the most valuable individual in the entire galaxy -- and lost it to Cerberus.  What reason could you possibly have for not attempt to retrieve back the most valuable person in the galaxy?  And who does the Illusive Man constantly call the most important person in Cerberus?

Also, Dreadwraithe's points about Sha'ira make some sense, although I generally am not a fan of the Sha'ira=SB theory. And I think linking her to Liara's father is a bit over the top, although it would certainly make for a great "No! I am your father" scene.

No, they don't, because General Septimus blatantly admits that it was he who dug up the information on Xeltan, not Shai'ra.

EDIT:

It's easier for a woman to influence and extract information than it is for a man.

Which would be another good point for Sha'ira. As an Asari she isn't even restricted to one species. Although I doubt that the SB gathers much of his/her information himself.

Too bad she didn't actually use it to bribe Xeltan likethe Shai'ra = SB supporters claim.