155 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

ian528 wrote...

Udina is a natural choice for being Miranda's father but I believe an incorrect one. Udina is a diplomat and without the resources and time to build someone like Miranda. However, her father could be pulling Udina's strings no problem. T

Also, you can bring her to the meet with Anderson and when Udina walks into the room their's no recognition between the two.

[dreman9999]

Railstay wrote...

Dreadwraithe wrote...

I thought about this possibility as well (Shadow Broker father for Miranda), but pretty much dismissed it as quickly.  The reason that the Broker most likely broke off ties was due to Cerberus' intensifying pro-human antics and how they were becoming more and more rogue, intensifying to the point where Cerberus severed its (official) ties to the Alliance military.  If I were the Shadow Broker, and I was a non-human, once the antics got out of hand it would only make good business sense to stop funding them -- if word ever got out that I was funding pro-human-radicals, it would be bad for business with all of the other races to say the least.
Also, the Broker seems to have been around for centuries, and as long as it has been the same individual we are most likely looking at either an Asari or Krogan.  I like the Krogan race quite a bit, and having a Krogan that was the mastermind behind the largest information-broker ring in the galaxy would be great (who would ever suspect a KROGAN to be the Broker?), however, it is more likely that an Asari is, and if my money were to be put on one Asari it would be the Consort.

If the Shadow Broker is as neutral as you claim, then why would he (since I'm assuming its an individual, and Miranda's father) donate money to Cerberus in the first place?  It's not like they were some galactic non-profit organization that went extremist.  In fact, Cerberus when it was part of the Alliance was far more brutal and pro-human.  After splitting off, Cerberus has considerably moderated its views with its willingness to work with aliens.  And if the Shadow Broker had been donating to Cerberus from the beginning, he would have been giving money directly to the Alliance military -- hardly neutral behavior.

We don't know how long the Shadow Broker's been around for exactly, but I don't know why people enjoy claiming that it's been hundreds of years.  Either way, it's just as plausible for it to be an organization/individual/inherited title.  I prefer to think it's an inherited title, like the Grey Fox or the Dread Pirate Roberts.

The Consort is in a position of repsect and reverance with many thousands of people, and the money she rakes in each year would be staggering.  She probably gave ALL of her clients an ancient alien pendant (like the one she gave to Shepard in ME1), stating that she had no idea what it was, but one day you might find out...  yeah right!   It's more likely to be some sort of recording device that she used to gather information from her high-profile clients.  By giving a bug to her clients, she would not have to rely solely on having them "Embrace Eternity" with her to get said information.  And once she had that info (from bug or "embrace"), she could sell that information to others with no ties leading back to her.  The Turian General from ME1 most likely obtained the information on the Elcor diplomat from the Shadow Broker, and since the Elcor had only confided that info to the Consort...

This would be a great theory, but there's a problem.

Septimus admits that he got the dirt on Xeltan himself.  In fact Xeltan's entire questline is about proving that Shai'ra is not responsible, and you bring him proof that it was Septimus that got the information, not Shai'ra who divulged it.

Also, now that Liara is actively hunting the Shadow Broker, there is an interesting bit of info on the Citadel news network:  the Consort is most likely going to leave the Citadel due to bad press and rumors about info leaks from the clients visiting her.  Or maybein reality it's because Liara is hot on her trail and the Consort would rather be hiding on some obscure system rather than staying in her high-profile suite on the Presidium.

Possible, but weaker now that we've established that Shai'ra wasn't responsible for Xeltan's anxiety.

Oh, and since we are talking about fathers, I've been thinking about Liara's father....  and more specifically, that the Shadow Broker/Consort is Liara's father (in ME1 she confirms that both her mother and father were Asari, although she does not know who her father is).  That would be one gut-wrenching scene for Liara -- not only did her mother die tragically before her eyes, but the one person that she hates more than anyone else -- and has vowed to flay with her very mind -- turns out to be her father.  Does she off her own dad for the sake of revenge, or does she let him live?  The tragedy/irony of it is that by trying to avenge the events of Redemption she is becoming more and more like her father...  Cold-blooded, lethal, and one of the best information-brokers ever.

Liara doesn't confirm that both were asari.  In fact, she's never met her father.  She could just believe it to be the case.  I always thought her being a "pureblood" was an obvious deflection with how presenceless her "father" is.

Again, what you say is possible, but with the emphasis of friction between the Illusive Man vs the Shadow Broker, Miranda being his daughter is an easier sell.  What other explanation is there that the Shadow Broker would refuse to act on the Illusive Man for taking what has to be the most valuable sapient in the galaxy from him?  And why would the Illusive Man work so hard to completely secure Miranda's loyalty?  Read his summary report after you finish Miranda's loyalty mission.

You do know that the shadow broker be around years before human were on the glatic stage.

[Railstay]

dreman9999 wrote...

You do know that the shadow broker be around years before human were on the glatic stage.

So people have claimed here already half a dozen times, yet conveniently, no one can cite a source.

Modifié par Railstay, 22 février 2010 - 07:53 .

[Beechwell]

Railstay wrote...
Miranda mentions it when you ask her about Cerberus' resources.  One of their doners use to be the Shadow Broker.

Ok, I can't find that piece of dialog. Both Miranda and EDI remain unclear about Cerberus' resources. I suppose it is hidden somwhere in later conversations with Miranda?
But does she actually say when the SB stopped funding Cerberus? It would also make a lot of sense if he stopped his support after the incident concerning Shepard's body.
As to why he supported them in the first place: Since the SB seems to be so concerned with galactic stability, maybe he wanted to support humanity to undermind the Concil's hegemony?

Also, why does the Shadow Broker have to be a human phenomenon?  There's standard at work here with your judgement.  So if the Shadow Broker is a salarian, it wouldn't be a salarian phenomenon?  An asari would make it an asari phenomenon?  If no one knows the Shadow Broker's racial identity what difference would it make anyway?  You think a human Shadow Broker would refuse to have alien agents, so volus like Barla Von would have no idea who he is but some random human would?

All right, I try again. Assuming that Miranda was born before the First Contact War (at least she couldn't have been born much after) her father was at that time obviously already the very wealthy man trying to create an heir at the time before the first contact with Citadel space. If he was the Shadow Broker at that time, then his operations were necessarily restricted to human space. If he only became the Shadow Broker afterwards, then his whole business with Miranda and her sisters can't have anything to do with his identity as the Shadow Broker. And everything Miranda tells us about him is unrelated to him being the SB. Possible, but unsatisfying from a story perspective.

Aside from being ridiculous with no circumstantial evidence to support it.  On the other hand, when you consider that the Shadow Broker is Miranda's father, her motivations for joining Cerberus and how hard the game tries to shroud her father's identity makes sense.  It also makes sense why the Shadow Broker would refuse to take actions against the Illusive Man.  The Shadow Broker recovered Shepard's body -- the most valuable individual in the entire galaxy -- and lost it to Cerberus.  What reason could you possibly have for not attempt to retrieve back the most valuable person in the galaxy?  And who does the Illusive Man constantly call the most important person in Cerberus?

I see no reason to assume that Shepard had any value to the SB beyond what the Collectors would have payed him for her. Why would Shepard be so important to the SB to stage a huge abduction from a top secret Cerberus facility. Not to mention that the SB may not even know the location of the Lazarus facility to begin with. I'm sure Cerberus went out of their way to keep it secret.
And there are lots of reasons to shroud the identity of Miranda's father. The most obvious one would be that the writers didn't even write an identity for him. Also they may have wanted to leave it open for future development.

Also, Dreadwraithe's points about Sha'ira make some sense, although I generally am not a fan of the Sha'ira=SB theory. And I think linking her to Liara's father is a bit over the top, although it would certainly make for a great "No! I am your father" scene.

No, they don't, because General Septimus blatantly admits that it was he who dug up the information on Xeltan, not Shai'ra.

I don't see what the Septimus incident has to do with Sha'ira's possible identity with the SB. We aren't even told how exactly Septimus gets the information about Xeltan.

[MutantSpleen]

The Shadow Broker seems too well connected and known to be a human who only built this vast galactic network in the last 20 years. I sincerely don't believe the Shadow Broker is human. My guess is an Asari. If not the Asari then a Salarian group. Salarians are incredible record keepers.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Miranda's father is Shepard, who have travelled back in time and want to recreate his love interest through cloning.

[Railstay]

MutantSpleen wrote...

The Shadow Broker seems too well connected and known to be a human who only built this vast galactic network in the last 20 years. I sincerely don't believe the Shadow Broker is human. My guess is an Asari. If not the Asari then a Salarian group. Salarians are incredible record keepers.

Humanity also managed to become the dominant species in the galaxy within a short span of time, too.  But lets look past the big picture, because once you get that broad you can make any number of theories without basis.  You can say, "A rachni is the Shadow Broker" and if someone asks you to prove it you can say, "Well you can't disprove it."

I'm narrowing down that the Shadow Broker is Miranda's father based on the actions between the characters in the game, which in my opinion, makes the theory very believable and consistent.  I've seen no other satisfying explanation of why Miranda would choose to join Cerberus, why the Shadow Broker would never make a move on Cerberus and how she is able to protect herself and her sister from such a supposedly powerful man.  The pieces all seem to fit.

[Railstay]

[quote]Beechwell wrote...

[quote]Railstay wrote...
Miranda mentions it when you ask her about Cerberus' resources.  One of their doners use to be the Shadow Broker.[/quote]
Ok, I can't find that piece of dialog. Both Miranda and EDI remain unclear about Cerberus' resources. I suppose it is hidden somwhere in later conversations with Miranda?
But does she actually say when the SB stopped funding Cerberus? It would also make a lot of sense if he stopped his support after the incident concerning Shepard's body.
As to why he supported them in the first place: Since the SB seems to be so concerned with galactic stability, maybe he wanted to support humanity to undermind the Concil's hegemony?[/quote]

It's actually early on, when you just finish Freedom's Progress and begin to ask her about Cerberus' capabilities, organization, different branches and funding.  She doesn't say why or when the SB cut off donations or when he started, just that he used to be a doner.

Also, it would make sense after losing Shepard's body, but what doesn't make sense is what prevents the Shadow Broker from trying to recover it again.  We're talking about one of the most powerful individuals/group in the galaxy here, allowing the most precious commodity in the Milky Way simply be taken with no retaliation.

Also, I think people seriously misinterpret the Shadow Broker's role.  No one in Mass Effect has ever said that the Shadow Broker enforces galactic stability -- he simply brings it about by acting as a seemingly neutral body.  Anyone can get any information from the Shadow Broker as long as his/her bid is higher than anyone else, so it's something that's a side effect of his role rather than his main purpose.

[quote]
Also, why does the Shadow Broker have to be a human phenomenon?  There's standard at work here with your judgement.  So if the Shadow Broker is a salarian, it wouldn't be a salarian phenomenon?  An asari would make it an asari phenomenon?  If no one knows the Shadow Broker's racial identity what difference would it make anyway?  You think a human Shadow Broker would refuse to have alien agents, so volus like Barla Von would have no idea who he is but some random human would?[/quote]
All right, I try again. Assuming that Miranda was born before the First Contact War (at least she couldn't have been born much after) her father was at that time obviously already the very wealthy man trying to create an heir at the time before the first contact with Citadel space. If he was the Shadow Broker at that time, then his operations were necessarily restricted to human space. If he only became the Shadow Broker afterwards, then his whole business with Miranda and her sisters can't have anything to do with his identity as the Shadow Broker. And everything Miranda tells us about him is unrelated to him being the SB. Possible, but unsatisfying from a story perspective.[/quote][/quote]

First I'd ask you what that Miranda says about her father is unrelated to him being the Shadow Broker.  I think all the evidence fits, and I've outlined the points in the first post of this thread if you want to refute them.  To me there's a lot of evidence, albeit circumstantial, that points to Miranda's father being the Shadow Broker precisely because of what she says about him.

Also, the plan to create a dynasty did not have to be restricted to a single purpose.  However, it's most likely a timeline error on Bioware's part.  There was a discussion about this in the Mass Effect 1 Storyline sub forums back in the old forums.  It was clear that the original timeline Bioware had was intended to be much longer, but was cut down, possibly for the sake of brevity and also to maintain a feeling that humans were newcomers to the galactic stage.  It's dubious that within a matter of decades, humanity was able to build dreadnaughts based off ancient Prothean technology capable of going toe to toe with turian warships -- a race who have already had a thousand year headstart on finding Prothean technology and developing on top of it.

Also, Ash claims that her grandfather General Williams was the man who gave up the garrison on Shanxi.  Pressley claims his own grandfather was present in the same battle.  The age difference between Ash and Pressley is obvious, yet they both claim both of their grandfathers were at Shanxi -- and Ash's grandfather was the highest ranking officer.  Pressley's grandfather would have already been ancient in Shanxi.

[quote][quote]
Aside from being ridiculous with no circumstantial evidence to support it.  On the other hand, when you consider that the Shadow Broker is Miranda's father, her motivations for joining Cerberus and how hard the game tries to shroud her father's identity makes sense.  It also makes sense why the Shadow Broker would refuse to take actions against the Illusive Man.  The Shadow Broker recovered Shepard's body -- the most valuable individual in the entire galaxy -- and lost it to Cerberus.  What reason could you possibly have for not attempt to retrieve back the most valuable person in the galaxy?  And who does the Illusive Man constantly call the most important person in Cerberus?[/quote]
I see no reason to assume that Shepard had any value to the SB beyond what the Collectors would have payed him for her. Why would Shepard be so important to the SB to stage a huge abduction from a top secret Cerberus facility. Not to mention that the SB may not even know the location of the Lazarus facility to begin with. I'm sure Cerberus went out of their way to keep it secret.
And there are lots of reasons to shroud the identity of Miranda's father. The most obvious one would be that the writers didn't even write an identity for him. Also they may have wanted to leave it open for future development.[/quote]

I find it very difficult to believe that the man/woman who single-handedly saved the entire galaxy and killed a Reaper is not important, especially when the Collectors want this individual.  Obviously an enormous amount of money was involved in this exchange.  You don't let a resource like that just float away once it leaves your hands.  The Mass Effect: Redemption comic makes it pretty clear that the Shadow Broker spent a considerable amount of time and resources to obtaining Shepard's body, and keeping it.

And Mass Effect being planned as a trilogy before the first game was even put into production makes me doubt that they're the type of company who makes things up as they go along.  There is a very deliberate and conscious reason why they're hiding the identity of Miranda's father, just like how they made it a point to portray Wrex as a once influential krogan to gave up on his idealism.  As soon as I heard he wasn't going to be a companion in ME2, it was obvious that he was going to be involved somehow with the survival of his people, especially after Virmire.

[quote][quote]
[quote][quote]Also, Dreadwraithe's points about Sha'ira make some sense, although I generally am not a fan of the Sha'ira=SB theory. And I think linking her to Liara's father is a bit over the top, although it would certainly make for a great "No! I am your father" scene.[/quote]
No, they don't, because General Septimus blatantly admits that it was he who dug up the information on Xeltan, not Shai'ra.[/quote]
I don't see what the Septimus incident has to do with Sha'ira's possible identity with the SB. We aren't even told how exactly Septimus gets the information about Xeltan.
[/quote]

He says explicitly that Shai'ra is not involved at all.  It doesn't debunk the possibility in Shai'ra being the Shadow Broker completely, but it completely debunks one of the theories used to support it.  The information about Xeltan didn't get leaked through Shai'ra as people claimed.  It was leaked through Septimus.  That was the point of the entire quest.  Trying to say, "Oh but he could have been lying and covering for her" or "She could have given to him under another disguise in secret" is the same as the giant flying spaghetti monster argument.  I can claim there is an invisible giant flying spaghetti monster out in space, and you can never disprove it because you can't find evidence to discredit it, no matter how many straws I need to grasp in order to justify it.

Modifié par Railstay, 24 février 2010 - 08:55 .

[Massadonious1]

[Red_Mist91]

In Mass Effect Revelation Anderson contacts one of the Shadow Brokers Salarian agents, and is dismayed at how she managed to obtain classified Alliance information. The Salarian responds “Your species has been transmitting data across the extranet for less than a decade. My species has been directing the primary espionage and intelligence operations for the Citadel Council for two thousand years”. The way it's worded seems to imply that the Shadow Broker existed long before humanities rise to power. I'll concede that the title could be along like the dread pirate Roberts, but I think it's more likely that the Shadow Broker and Miranda's father are two separate entities. Remember, she always refered to him as a 'business man' not an 'information broker'.

[Edgar1729]

Count Viceroy wrote...

It doesn't work. It's a stupid theory.

This.

Also :

The SHADOW BROKER existed BEFORE First Contact. In ME1, you learn that his information is able to start or stop wars...between Council Races. Asari, Turians, Salarians. Old races. Just talk to that Volus again in the financial district.

It would be an incohrence if the Shadow Broker was human.

Modifié par Edgar1729, 24 février 2010 - 09:46 .

[Railstay]

Edgar1729 wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

It doesn't work. It's a stupid theory.

This.

Also :

The SHADOW BROKER existed BEFORE First Contact. In ME1, you learn that his information is able to start or stop wars...between Council Races. Asari, Turians, Salarians. Old races. Just talk to that Volus again in the financial district.

It would be an incohrence if the Shadow Broker was human.

Count Viceroy got argued out of this thread with his tail between his legs.  You claim it's a dumb theory, yet you can't refute my own points to bring it up.

Your own claim of the Shadow Broker existing before First Contact is stupid, because the assumption you use of him pitting the Council Races against one another is completely and utterly false.



Barla Von never mentions anything about the Council Races.  He simply refers to the Shadow Broker's information being able to dismantle "governments".  Barla Von also expands on his personal opinion of the Shadow Broker by saying "The Shadow Broker can be any race, any gender" then goes on to say he believes it to actually be a cabal of people.

Looking forward to your response.

Modifié par Railstay, 24 février 2010 - 09:59 .

[GodWood]

Shepard.

[bobito64]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Well... the shadow broker seemed to know pretty damn quick that I HAD information about Cerberus that he could get. Heck.. I barely had my field armor off before his representative called me.

I never thought about this before. How did he know? Did he have somebody working for him on the original Normandy and, if so, WHO???!!!

Modifié par bobito64, 24 février 2010 - 10:14 .

[Jebel Krong]

Railstay wrote...

Liara doesn't confirm that both were asari.  In fact, she's never met her father.  She could just believe it to be the case.  I always thought her being a "pureblood" was an obvious deflection with how presenceless her "father" is.

Again, what you say is possible, but with the emphasis of friction between the Illusive Man vs the Shadow Broker, Miranda being his daughter is an easier sell.  What other explanation is there that the Shadow Broker would refuse to act on the Illusive Man for taking what has to be the most valuable sapient in the galaxy from him?  And why would the Illusive Man work so hard to completely secure Miranda's loyalty?  Read his summary report after you finish Miranda's loyalty mission.

actually she does: she caterogrically states that she "does know who her father is, if you want to use that term" when explaining about being a "pureblood" otherwise why bring that up? some people either don't pay attention or just like to try and pick holes in already-established in-game facts.

i doubt it's miranda's father because how difficult would it be for the shadow broker to find out where miranda was at any time, within cerberus? not at all (and that goes for oriana, too).

it is unlikely that the "shadow broker" is human (what him/her/it/they and the illusive man just happen to be two of the biggest information-traders out there and both from the relatively new species on the galactic stage?). i think it's more likely that the "shadow broker" is the geth collective: ai, would have superior ability to infiltrate information systems, going from legion's talks they want to be neutral but don't necc trust organics to leve them alone, makes sense to me. (however one possible contradiction to this is in the comic where one of harbingers "fawns" is conversing with an "individual" assumed to be the shadow broker...).

[Aradace]

Michoss wrote...

I think we know Miranda's father pretty well. Some of us gave him a space station as a present.

Aside from the fact that TIM ISNT her father...Yea, great "detective" work there genius lol.

[Beechwell]

Railstay wrote...

Beechwell wrote...
Ok, I can't find that piece of dialog. Both Miranda and EDI remain unclear about Cerberus' resources. I suppose it is hidden somwhere in later conversations with Miranda?

It's actually early on, when you just finish Freedom's Progress and begin to ask her about Cerberus' capabilities, organization, different branches and funding.  She doesn't say why or when the SB cut off donations or when he started, just that he used to be a doner.

That is interesting. Miranda never mentions the SB to my Shepards in that conversation at all. Maybe it is connected to some decision in ME1? How much you asked Barla Von about the SB, or whether you game him that Cerberus information? I'll have to check that out in another combined walkthrough.

Also, I think people seriously misinterpret the Shadow Broker's role.  No one in Mass Effect has ever said that the Shadow Broker enforces galactic stability -- he simply brings it about by acting as a seemingly neutral body.  Anyone can get any information from the Shadow Broker as long as his/her bid is higher than anyone else, so it's something that's a side effect of his role rather than his main purpose.

Barla's claim that the Shadow Broker always sells to the highest bidder is already belied by himself when he gives out valuable information for free to Shepard (obviously at the direction of the Shadow Broker since the reasoning behind is that Saren has angered the Shadow Broker). So he does make some sort of selection about how to spread information. He has some aganda of his own, and galactic stability seems to be part of it. I don't buy that stability just happens to come about by his work. Maybe if all information was given to everyone, but that's not the case, it goes to the highest bidder.
Also, that the SB donates money to organisations at all is proof of some agenda besides brokering information. Unless he does it in exchange for inormation. That could be another reason for his involvement with Cerberus.

Also, the plan to create a dynasty did not have to be restricted to a single purpose.  However, it's most likely a timeline error on Bioware's part.  There was a discussion about this in the Mass Effect 1 Storyline sub forums back in the old forums.  It was clear that the original timeline Bioware had was intended to be much longer, but was cut down, possibly for the sake of brevity and also to maintain a feeling that humans were newcomers to the galactic stage.  It's dubious that within a matter of decades, humanity was able to build dreadnaughts based off ancient Prothean technology capable of going toe to toe with turian warships -- a race who have already had a thousand year headstart on finding Prothean technology and developing on top of it.

That makes a lot of sense. However, one would expect Bioware to get their timeline right by the second game. If your whole Father=SB theory relies in a continued timeline error on Bioware's part, then that disqualifies it in my eyes. If it still turns out to be true, then it contains a major plothole in regards to Miranda's history.

I find it very difficult to believe that the man/woman who single-handedly saved the entire galaxy and killed a Reaper is not important, especially when the Collectors want this individual.  Obviously an enormous amount of money was involved in this exchange.  You don't let a resource like that just float away once it leaves your hands.  The Mass Effect: Redemption comic makes it pretty clear that the Shadow Broker spent a considerable amount of time and resources to obtaining Shepard's body, and keeping it.

I still don't see what the SB would do with Shepard's body except selling it. And it seems likely that he wouldn't invest more in obtaining the body than it is worth to his customers. Now the SB is neither omnipotent nor omniscient, so it is indeed conceivable that finding and retrieveing the body (again) is considered too costly and too risky to justify the price.
It's also possible that the SB has now more information about the Collectors and doesn't want to do business after all. Or he figures that Shepard would be worth even more after cerberus revives her. Or on light of new information he sees more benefit in letting Shepard roam around than in capturing him. There can be any number of reasons for the SB to abandon the quest for Shepard's body. And that is assuming that the attack on the Lazarus station isn't orchestrated by the SB after all.

And Mass Effect being planned as a trilogy before the first game was even put into production makes me doubt that they're the type of company who makes things up as they go along.  There is a very deliberate and conscious reason why they're hiding the identity of Miranda's father, just like how they made it a point to portray Wrex as a once influential krogan to gave up on his idealism.  As soon as I heard he wasn't going to be a companion in ME2, it was obvious that he was going to be involved somehow with the survival of his people, especially after Virmire.

Oh, I'm sure Bioware knows how the big picture is going to unfold. But details I'm sure they make up as they go along. For example I'm pretty certain that all the cross-species romances in ME2 weren't originally planned. Otherwise they would have already been present in ME1. They are pure fan service.
And Wrex' story can't be part of the main plot, because depending on your actions he may already be dead.

 It doesn't debunk the possibility in Shai'ra being the Shadow Broker completely, but it completely debunks one of the theories used to support it.

One would still wonder how Septimus got that information if Xeltan insists that only Sha'ira could have know it. Bioware leaves the means by which Septimus obtained that info completely in the dark, possibly deliberately.
But as I said, I'm not a strong Sha'ira=SB supporter anyway, so I won't argue about that.
The only points that speak for the Shai'ira theory imo are that she is in an excellent position to gather information (maybe a bit too obvious though), and how she suddenly falls out of favor at the at the time that Liara is closing in on the SB's identity.
I'd say those indications are about on par with your arguments for Father=SB (if fewer in numbers), but don't rely on timeline inconsistencies.

EDIT: Sorry for the increasingly long posts. I'll try to keep it shorter.

Modifié par Beechwell, 24 février 2010 - 12:57 .

[luk3us]

Obviously Miranda's father is Legion, the perfect Geth spy!

[Seneva]

Hiding is best done in plain sight.

[Vaenier]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Miranda is her father.

Well, technicaly, ya... she is a clone of her father...
so she is her father

[yummysoap]

Eh. If he was the Shadow Broker I think he'd have managed to find Oriana in about two seconds.

[Railstay]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Railstay wrote...

Liara doesn't confirm that both were asari.  In fact, she's never met her father.  She could just believe it to be the case.  I always thought her being a "pureblood" was an obvious deflection with how presenceless her "father" is.

Again, what you say is possible, but with the emphasis of friction between the Illusive Man vs the Shadow Broker, Miranda being his daughter is an easier sell.  What other explanation is there that the Shadow Broker would refuse to act on the Illusive Man for taking what has to be the most valuable sapient in the galaxy from him?  And why would the Illusive Man work so hard to completely secure Miranda's loyalty?  Read his summary report after you finish Miranda's loyalty mission.

actually she does: she caterogrically states that she "does know who her father is, if you want to use that term" when explaining about being a "pureblood" otherwise why bring that up? some people either don't pay attention or just like to try and pick holes in already-established in-game facts.

i doubt it's miranda's father because how difficult would it be for the shadow broker to find out where miranda was at any time, within cerberus? not at all (and that goes for oriana, too).

it is unlikely that the "shadow broker" is human (what him/her/it/they and the illusive man just happen to be two of the biggest information-traders out there and both from the relatively new species on the galactic stage?). i think it's more likely that the "shadow broker" is the geth collective: ai, would have superior ability to infiltrate information systems, going from legion's talks they want to be neutral but don't necc trust organics to leve them alone, makes sense to me. (however one possible contradiction to this is in the comic where one of harbingers "fawns" is conversing with an "individual" assumed to be the shadow broker...).

Right.  I'm so sure Liara would know her father is a pureblood, based on never actually meeting him/her and just miming what she's been told by her mother.  That's not "in-game" confirmation.  That's just confirmation she believes her father is a pureblood based on what she's been told.  It would only be confirmation if she's actually met him before -- and again, given Bioware's track record, the fact that the identity of Liara's father is shrouded to the point of her never actually seeing him/her, not even a picture or holovid, means that something larger is at work.

And I'll ask again, read the opening post.  Most of the attacks on my theory are already answered there in my bullet points.  It is pointless to try to hide from someone as powerful as the Shadow Broker.  He will always know where you are and how to find you, so Miranda takes the intelligent option, which is to ally herself with someone the Shadow Broker will not dare cross:  The Illusive Man.  She's not trying to hide herself in Cerberus.  She's trying to protect herself with Cerberus.  You even blatantly ignored the very post you quoted to reply to me.

Also, it may be possible that the Shadow Broker is a heretic geth AI, because of the SB's intent to sell Shepard to the Collectors, but that still does not explain why the Shadow Broker would refuse to move on Cerberus and recover the body.  Again, we're talking about losing the single most important person on the galaxy.  The point of this thread is to discern the validity of SB being Miranda's father based on the consistence of actions of various characters in the game, not grasping at possibilties about capability or scope.

Modifié par Railstay, 24 février 2010 - 09:16 .

[Jebel Krong]

Railstay wrote...

Right.  I'm so sure Liara would know her father is a pureblood, based on never actually meeting him/her and just miming what she's been told by her mother.  That's not "in-game" confirmation.  That's just confirmation she believes her father is a pureblood based on what she's been told.  It would only be confirmation if she's actually met him before -- and again, given Bioware's track record, the fact that the identity of Liara's father is shrouded to the point of her never actually seeing him/her, not even a picture or holovid, means that something larger is at work.

And I'll ask again, read the opening post.  Most of the attacks on my theory are already answered there in my bullet points.  It is pointless to try to hide from someone as powerful as the Shadow Broker.  He will always know where you are and how to find you, so Miranda takes the intelligent option, which is to ally herself with someone the Shadow Broker will not dare cross:  The Illusive Man.  She's not trying to hide herself in Cerberus.  She's trying to protect herself with Cerberus.  You even blatantly ignored the very post you quoted to reply to me.

Also, it may be possible that the Shadow Broker is a heretic geth AI, because of the SB's intent to sell Shepard to the Collectors, but that still does not explain why the Shadow Broker would refuse to move on Cerberus and recover the body.  Again, we're talking about losing the single most important person on the galaxy.  The point of this thread is to discern the validity of SB being Miranda's father based on the consistence of actions of various characters in the game, not grasping at possibilties about capability or scope.

how do you know liara didn't meet her "dad" it's not confirmed one way or another. as i said she specifically mentions knowing who "he" is during the "pureblood" conversation - that's in-game FACT, not your suppositions. as for "something larger being at work" just because they don't mention it? C'mon - not everything in the universe has to be a. linked; or b. part of a grand consipracy. for instance the asari matriarch bartender on illium makes pointed references to having a "pureblood" child about a century ago - Liara's age and type, are we supposed to assume "he" is a more correct candidate for being Liara's dad than your theories? there's certainly more evidence for it... (i personally don't believe it - BW like throwing little nuggets in their games for the knowledeable fans).

as for your tenous "miranda's hiding with cerberus because they wouldn't cross the illusive man" argument, what?! really? the pre-eminent information broker that deals with everyone from the collectors down- (and just having dealings with them puts him/her/them in a league above pretty much anyone) is scared of the illusive man's wrath? yeah, right.

sometimes you have to accept the evidence as it is, until it is contravened by more evidence (not opinion), and then you can further refine your hypothesis.

[TekFanX]

The Shadow-Broker can't be Mirandas father.

Most of all, because Miranda has Spy-Programs in her fathers systems and even Niket knew about that...wouldn't be a very good information-broker, if everyone knows his systems.

[Sulliv9]

Its easy everybody!

Shadow broker=TIM=Shepard=The consort=Uldina=Darth vader=Blasto

See.........