102 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghostano]

ME2 is more like The Matrix Reloaded then The Empire Strikes Back. ME2 just feels like a gaint DLC for the real ME2. Now if you will excuse me I got to find were I left my ammo...I mean "heat sinks" /jk

[alperez]

As jeremy points out its the act2.act3 framework we're talking about not the character continunity,



As for progressing the story well it did that and quite well, not the overall plot regarding the reapers although there was progression there as well but the overall plot regarding the mass effect universe.



The geth and quarian situations was progressed as were the krogan and cerberus ones. We learned things about all of these that we didn't know before me2 including attitudes and motivations.



Shepard's character arc also has moved on although not considerably but thats to be expected considering the confines of the story,



The reaper situation has progressed almost in a parallel to the empire situation in empire strikes back, if you remember that movie the emperor who really was the big bad almost took a back seat to vader and only really came to the forefront in jedi.



What they did in me2 did push the plot forward and does setup where things may be heading in me3, without me2 things they may have planned in me3 might seem silly or out of place or have no context.



While they didn't progress the character arcs of some of the characters as much as they should have they did progress them, garrus and tali are different than you would have expected from playing me1 and thier stories have moved on.



You have to remember though in introducing a new crew they are forced into explaining those characters and thier motivations which isn't something some trilogies have to face.



All in all, the proof will be in the pudding, if they follow through on the setups of me2 into me3 then like i said things become much clearer and you begin to see why they did things in the way they did. which will in turn make me2 a completely different experience because you will finally have the context to what happened, rather than the flat empty feeling some people seem to have.



Also i wasn't saying that in retrospect me2 would be considered the best of the trilogy, that is unlikely because of how rare the second act is considered the best of any trilogy, more i was trying to make the point that the complaints people have about it now might seem different when the context of what they were trying to accomplish is put into perspective.



Which in turn might make me2's flaws more endearing and might make people more likely to rate it higher considering its place in the overall scheme of the trilogy.

[meznaric]

Axx Bytehoven wrote...

 Having finished (2) plays of ME2, I have an empty feeling, and for reasons I can't quite put my finger on.

I awaited ME2 with such great anticipation. Perhaps that's part of the problem. Could such a long wait have caused me to have greater expectations? Is that it I wonder, did I have expectations that have been left unfilled? Something is wrong.

I know the story feels different, shorter, after having made the journey. Also, the recruit missions feel like something is missing. Maybe it's the missing elevator dialogue.

I know the change in the inventory management has reduced some sense of immersion I felt while playing the game versus ME1.

Maybe it's the Mako. I do miss the Mako, even though I do agree it became a repetitive requirement, but no more so than planet scanning. I hope the Hammerhead DLC restores some of the Mako experience.

Maybe it's the ending of ME2. In ME1, there was such a great sensation of "WE did it. We're galactic heros". This time around, I really don't have a compelling thought about the story or what's next, as if I missed playing a part of the game, and missed out on some crucial bit of story line. It's very odd.

I don't mean for this post to be a complaint about ME2 because it is an improvement in so many ways over ME1. However, I thought I would share this empty feeling I am having, in hopes of some therapy. 

Does anyone feel the same way?  

Perhaps it's just the typical melancholy that sets in after completing the experience of something you wait for with great expectation.

I feel the same way. Another thing I would add to that is that I don't like how they revealed almost everything from the beginning. Mission 1 you already knew Collectors were behind the missing colonies and you knew they worked for the Reapers, you knew you had to take them down and you knew you needed something to get through the Omega 4 relay (conversation with TIM reveals that). So basically the whole progression of the story is known after mission 1. No mystery, no anticipation. Everything goes according to plan. I was hoping for a bit more surprises and new things being revealed about the reapers. But it didn't feel like it was about that at all.

[TheLostGenius]

Its called "cognitive dissonance" ME2 is an EXCEPTIONAL game, the best the 360 has to offer. After completeing the game you are left with a feeling of wanting more, which is called cognitive dissonance, this can be satiated only by the release of substantial DLC to add more missions, characters etc to the ME2 universe. The ending of ME2 feels like everything is just about to start with the huge Reaper fleet on the move, and the fact that we have to wait two years for sequel...well they have us dangling on a string. Just hope they release DLC soon, I'm obsessed with this game, even though the dumbed down RPG elements were a bit disappointing! 

[MICHELLE7]

Axx Bytehoven wrote...


Maybe it's the ending of ME2. In ME1, there was such a great sensation of "WE did it. We're galactic heros". This time around, I really don't have a compelling thought about the story or what's next, as if I missed playing a part of the game, and missed out on some crucial bit of story line. It's very odd.

Yeah, I felt let down and empty at the end of the story...there were no emotional moments like saving the council that made you feel proud of what you had achieved. At the end I felt like I had accomplished nothing...and really didn't since we're right back where we were at the end of ME...waiting for the Reapers. It felt like a BSG or Lost filler episode where they knew the beginning and the end of the story but everything in the middle was fluid or padded to stretch the series out until they decided to end them. Never the less with it being out of the way now it leaves me with high hopes for ME3...they can now turn back to focusing on the Reapers...something to look forward to.

[TheLostGenius]

ME2 is so different from ME1. ME1 was all about mystery and discovery, a point of origin for Sheperd. ME2 is the backbone of the franchise, it adopts all the major cast members and sets the stage for sure to be more than epic sequel. Its a excellent intermediary game between ME1 and ME3, we are given more character than story. Nothing new is revealed. The only wow this is really f#$*ing amazing moments was when you go to through the Omega 4 relay and see the strange realm first hand that Sheperd saw in his visions from ME1.



IMO we should be able to travel back through the Omega 4 relay and explore the clusters there. Idea for DLC...

[meznaric]

TheLostGenius wrote...

Its called "cognitive dissonance" ME2 is an EXCEPTIONAL game, the best the 360 has to offer. After completeing the game you are left with a feeling of wanting more, which is called cognitive dissonance, this can be satiated only by the release of substantial DLC to add more missions, characters etc to the ME2 universe. The ending of ME2 feels like everything is just about to start with the huge Reaper fleet on the move, and the fact that we have to wait two years for sequel...well they have us dangling on a string. Just hope they release DLC soon, I'm obsessed with this game, even though the dumbed down RPG elements were a bit disappointing! 

That's not how I feel at all. It was like that after ME1, that's for sure, but now it feels like the plot did not advance. In truth, what did we learn about the reapers in ME2? That they tried to use the collectors to activate the citadel and that they didn't actually kill all the Protheans (which I think made them look way less scary). Maybe DLC could cut it, but I doubt it can substitute for a real deep original story.

[TheLostGenius]

Also, I thought they fufilled the lore of the original, added a lot to it. The revelations that Legion make are a very interesting turn for the Geth, as they were instrumental nemesis of the first game. Also we make these big decisions in ME2 and now we have TO WAIT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS FOR YEARS!!! The anticipation is killing me. Don't rush it, but please release a ton of DLC soon, want to go questing all over the galaxy. So tired of the empty universe with no available quests.

[Axx Bytehoven]

I thank everyone for their comments and it's good to see others with a similar reaction.

[alperez]

meznaric wrote...




That's not how I feel at all. It was like that after ME1, that's for sure, but now it feels like the plot did not advance. In truth, what did we learn about the reapers in ME2? That they tried to use the collectors to activate the citadel and that they didn't actually kill all the Protheans (which I think made them look way less scary). Maybe DLC could cut it, but I doubt it can substitute for a real deep original story.

We learned that the threat they posed in me1 is very real and that the inevitable reckoning is about to happen, something we did not know after me1.

We learned that the reapers tried to use another of thier allies to achieve the outcomethey wished and that now they've decide to do the job themselves and are ready for a full scale battle.

We learned that they know of sovereigns failure and are aware that it was humans (shepard) which caused that failure, so they took this info on board and what may have been an insignificant race to them originally and possibly the last race they would have come after is much more than that and a potential spanner in thier overall plans.

After me1 what had we learned. that there were reapers, that they were in a cycle of destruction and that they used the tech we used to control and finally destroy all sentient life. We learned how they were able to do what they did and that they used the mass effect relays and the citadel signal to start thier attack but we foiled thier plans and stopped the signal thereby stopping the attack.

By all accounts the reaper threat even though it was still out there was stopped in me1. the signal to attack wasn't sent so why would they. if they were waiting for sovereign to send it.

What me2 showed us was that sovereign's failure was known and a course of action decided upon and now that the course of action has failed a new course has been set, this time involving the reapers themselves.

If they hadn't progressed the plot then we wouldn't know any of this, look what shepard was doing pre the attack on the normandy. flying around fighting geth, i though shepard said that the reapers were the main threat.

[Skilled Seeker]

This always happens with trilogies. Need I mention the Matrix or Pirates of the Carribean? Oddly enough I always find the second acts to be my favourites as they are usually the darkest due to them being the 'problem' part of the plot with the first act as the intro and the third as the conclusion. ME2 did not let me down

[Daeion]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Perhaps you missed that we were not comparing the richness or quality of the story, but rather the general act2/act3 framework. Both trilogies started off with a first act that needed a solid ending, because there may not be a sequel.

Both succeeded and the second acts were made knowing that there would be a third act.

Before you start calling something 'laughable' you may want to read the arguments more closely.

I've always heard BioWare intended for this to be a trilogy so really it's kind of hard for me to accept that the first one needed a solid ending because their may not be a sequal, and even if there is going to be a sequal, doens't mean you can't have a strong ending.

[Medet]

Axx Bytehoven wrote...

 Having finished (2) plays of ME2, I have an empty feeling, and for reasons I can't quite put my finger on.

I awaited ME2 with such great anticipation. Perhaps that's part of the problem. Could such a long wait have caused me to have greater expectations? Is that it I wonder, did I have expectations that have been left unfilled? Something is wrong.

I know the story feels different, shorter, after having made the journey. Also, the recruit missions feel like something is missing. Maybe it's the missing elevator dialogue.

I know the change in the inventory management has reduced some sense of immersion I felt while playing the game versus ME1.

Maybe it's the Mako. I do miss the Mako, even though I do agree it became a repetitive requirement, but no more so than planet scanning. I hope the Hammerhead DLC restores some of the Mako experience.

Maybe it's the ending of ME2. In ME1, there was such a great sensation of "WE did it. We're galactic heros". This time around, I really don't have a compelling thought about the story or what's next, as if I missed playing a part of the game, and missed out on some crucial bit of story line. It's very odd.

I don't mean for this post to be a complaint about ME2 because it is an improvement in so many ways over ME1. However, I thought I would share this empty feeling I am having, in hopes of some therapy. 

Does anyone feel the same way?  

Perhaps it's just the typical melancholy that sets in after completing the experience of something you wait for with great expectation.

I had pretty much the exact same reaction, and I think I can safely say I agree on every point you brought up.

In addition to the inventory itself, it also lost some of the replay perks of ME1, where achievements actually had gameplay effects, the effective level cap was much higher (yes I know it doesn't matter what the max level is numerically, I do mean the effective level cap. It took 3 playthroughs of ME1 to max out a character where it takes a single play in ME2), and your weapons and armor improved as you went rather than the almost entirely static ME2.

Once I completed ME2 twice, a renegade and a paragon, I felt there was nothing left for me to do that I hadn't already done, whereas in ME1 I completed 10+ playthroughs.

[Daeion]

TheLostGenius wrote...

Its called "cognitive dissonance" ME2 is an EXCEPTIONAL game, the best the 360 has to offer. After completeing the game you are left with a feeling of wanting more, which is called cognitive dissonance, this can be satiated only by the release of substantial DLC to add more missions, characters etc to the ME2 universe. The ending of ME2 feels like everything is just about to start with the huge Reaper fleet on the move, and the fact that we have to wait two years for sequel...well they have us dangling on a string. Just hope they release DLC soon, I'm obsessed with this game, even though the dumbed down RPG elements were a bit disappointing! 

I was left wanting more with ME, ME2 I'm just kind of like meh, was that it?

To me ME2 should have come before ME.

[Jeremy Winston]

Daeion wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Perhaps you missed that we were not comparing the richness or quality of the story, but rather the general act2/act3 framework. Both trilogies started off with a first act that needed a solid ending, because there may not be a sequel.

Both succeeded and the second acts were made knowing that there would be a third act.

Before you start calling something 'laughable' you may want to read the arguments more closely.

I've always heard BioWare intended for this to be a trilogy so really it's kind of hard for me to accept that the first one needed a solid ending because their may not be a sequal, and even if there is going to be a sequal, doens't mean you can't have a strong ending.

There's a big difference between knowing there will be a part 2 and 3 and not knowing it.  I agree that ME2 could have ended with more fanfare, instead of just yelling at TIM, but they set ME2 up as a prelude to an ME3 that they know they will be doing.

ME1... they couldn't be sure.

[Rip504]

And on a side note:For the people who use the excuse that Bioware does this or that,because every player may not see it in game or play it.This is BS in my eyes.The original idea was to make ME personal for every fan,now certain things don't carry over from ME1 to ME2? You can't tell me it would slow down production or hurt profits margins enough not to carry all things over.You told us our decisions would have an impact and would be seen.What about the Bartarians who are starting a rebelion?Your telling me I wasted money on dlc that won't be brought over just because some lame ducks may have not played it?I did and paid for it I just want Bioware to deliver on their promise and they haven't.I mean come on they bring over pointless lame Conrad and it's glitched lol.What a shame.So because of this ME1 has hours and hours of pointless bs,like every evil Cerberus mission.They don't mean jack s*** in ME2.Wow you get an e-mail omg I busted oo nothing because of this.(And if you argue it will or may be in ME3 thats just speculation)



Don't belive me.What about I saved an entire Alien race,a race that commited war against the entire Galaxy.If I pass up a random Asari in ME2 I would never know you had it brought over.I mean you let a Queen loose and no one cares in ME2?No one but some random Asari mentions it?Kinda Lame.I am glad Bioware decided to at least bring some of it over,but I belive handling them in pointless e-mails was lame and a failure to Bioware fans.It's cool they did it,but random e-mails, Asari, and Social workers on Omega I fail to see the point in this.



The dlc, Why wasn't it mentioned in ME2? They made refrences to a book I have never read,but not to dlc that was in game?



Now I am sorry,and with all that said ,I feel the need to tell you ME1&2 are my fav games.Bioware deff top 3 devs in my eyes.VA is amazing and untouchable by any other company.The games are truly amazing titles and should live on as epic Sci-Fi stories for the rest of time...

[Jeremy Winston]

I am being hopeful that those decisions have a stronger impact on ME3.

[Skilled Seeker]

Actually the DLC was mentioned. Listen to the news and you'll hear about it. I assume you mean BDTS.

[Rip504]

See I thought I might have missed some,please don't take what I said in a negative way.I love ME and Bioware.I did just stand in front of one of those news things.I must have just missed it.sorry.

[meznaric]

alperez wrote...

meznaric wrote...




That's not how I feel at all. It was like that after ME1, that's for sure, but now it feels like the plot did not advance. In truth, what did we learn about the reapers in ME2? That they tried to use the collectors to activate the citadel and that they didn't actually kill all the Protheans (which I think made them look way less scary). Maybe DLC could cut it, but I doubt it can substitute for a real deep original story.

We learned that the threat they posed in me1 is very real and that the inevitable reckoning is about to happen, something we did not know after me1.

We learned that the reapers tried to use another of thier allies to achieve the outcomethey wished and that now they've decide to do the job themselves and are ready for a full scale battle.

We learned that they know of sovereigns failure and are aware that it was humans (shepard) which caused that failure, so they took this info on board and what may have been an insignificant race to them originally and possibly the last race they would have come after is much more than that and a potential spanner in thier overall plans.

After me1 what had we learned. that there were reapers, that they were in a cycle of destruction and that they used the tech we used to control and finally destroy all sentient life. We learned how they were able to do what they did and that they used the mass effect relays and the citadel signal to start thier attack but we foiled thier plans and stopped the signal thereby stopping the attack.

By all accounts the reaper threat even though it was still out there was stopped in me1. the signal to attack wasn't sent so why would they. if they were waiting for sovereign to send it.

What me2 showed us was that sovereign's failure was known and a course of action decided upon and now that the course of action has failed a new course has been set, this time involving the reapers themselves.

If they hadn't progressed the plot then we wouldn't know any of this, look what shepard was doing pre the attack on the normandy. flying around fighting geth, i though shepard said that the reapers were the main threat.

Yeah sure we learned all this. But what about the reapers? What do we know about taking them out or getting to them? I think the story could have made a lot better if they just put in say a conversation with Harbinger where he tells you some things about the Reapers. At least we could have learned why they are doing this.

In all honesty, I was expecting something like "Reapers strike back" but we only got "Collectors strike back in the name of the reapers". The whole story is just "get your team together and get the collectors". It didn't feel like they were even close to letting the Reapers come back. We disrupted their plans way before they were even close to getting anywhere.

[Daeion]

alperez wrote...
We learned that the threat they posed in me1 is very real and that the inevitable reckoning is about to happen, something we did not know after me1.

You mean after ME you didn't think the reapers were a real threat and the fact that Soverign was trying to activate the citadel didn't tell you the reckoning was on hand?

alperez wrote...
We learned that the reapers tried to use another of thier allies to achieve the outcomethey wished and that now they've decide to do the job themselves and are ready for a full scale battle.

They already decided to do the job themselves when Sovereign tried to activate the citadel and the collectors aren't their allies, they are their tools.

alperez wrote...
We learned that they know of sovereigns failure and are aware that it was humans (shepard) which caused that failure, so they took this info on board and what may have been an insignificant race to them originally and possibly the last race they would have come after is much more than that and a potential spanner in thier overall plans.

that doesn't really progress the story but w/e

alperez wrote...
After me1 what had we learned. that there were reapers, that they were in a cycle of destruction and that they used the tech we used to control and finally destroy all sentient life. We learned how they were able to do what they did and that they used the mass effect relays and the citadel signal to start thier attack but we foiled thier plans and stopped the signal thereby stopping the attack.

We learned these things during ME and it wasn't us but the last of the protheans who prevented the keepers from activating the citadel relay again.

alperez wrote...
By all accounts the reaper threat even though it was still out there was stopped in me1. the signal to attack wasn't sent so why would they. if they were waiting for sovereign to send it.

How was the threat stopped?  The reapers were trying to get back so they could wipe everyone out and shep knew this.

alperez wrote...
If they hadn't progressed the plot then we wouldn't know any of this, look what shepard was doing pre the attack on the normandy. flying around fighting geth, i though shepard said that the reapers were the main threat.

As I pointed out above, we already knew most of what you listed from ME, and Shep was flying around fighting Geth because the council didn't want to believe in the reaper threat and instead wanted to focus on the geth which they knew were real.

[alperez]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

I am being hopeful that those decisions have a stronger impact on ME3.

This is the thing a lot of people don't seem to take into consideration, the choices you make in me1 or me2 can only be resolved in me3. What point would there be in giving the full repurcussions of those choices in me2 when the story isn;t finished yet.

You get nods and winks to your choices in me2 thats it, because thats basically all the consequences those choices would have resolved by then. The rachni queen is a perfect example of this, you saved her so you get an asari telling you that basically it was the right thing to do and the queen telling you that when you need her she will be there. What purpose would it have served to have the repurcussion of that choice play out in me2 if the repurcussion of that choice is the rachni helping you fight the reapers.

The same with wrex, if he lives in me1 in me2 he's rebuilding the krogans, it makes sense that come me3 you'll have a rebuilt krogan army to call on, so they allude to this choice and leave it open to come back and play a part where its needed in me3.

This is the basis of every choice you made through me1 and me2. apart from little ones that don't matter, conrad,fist,helena blake which all are resolved in a certain way, the big choices are left open until me3 only then do you get to see the effects of these choices.

If we get to me3 and they do nothing with them. then fine we can argue as much as we wish about where they went wrong and what a load of b.s the choices were but until we see the full scope of the effects of these choices we can only wait and irrationally complain.

[Daeion]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Perhaps you missed that we were not comparing the richness or quality of the story, but rather the general act2/act3 framework. Both trilogies started off with a first act that needed a solid ending, because there may not be a sequel.

Both succeeded and the second acts were made knowing that there would be a third act.

Before you start calling something 'laughable' you may want to read the arguments more closely.

I've always heard BioWare intended for this to be a trilogy so really it's kind of hard for me to accept that the first one needed a solid ending because their may not be a sequal, and even if there is going to be a sequal, doens't mean you can't have a strong ending.

There's a big difference between knowing there will be a part 2 and 3 and not knowing it.  I agree that ME2 could have ended with more fanfare, instead of just yelling at TIM, but they set ME2 up as a prelude to an ME3 that they know they will be doing.

ME1... they couldn't be sure.

I'm pretty sure they always intended for Mass Effect to be a trilogy so that to me says they should have developed it as one.

[ZennExile]

Axx Bytehoven wrote...

 Having finished (2) plays of ME2, I have an empty feeling, and for reasons I can't quite put my finger on.

I awaited ME2 with such great anticipation. Perhaps that's part of the problem. Could such a long wait have caused me to have greater expectations? Is that it I wonder, did I have expectations that have been left unfilled? Something is wrong.

I know the story feels different, shorter, after having made the journey. Also, the recruit missions feel like something is missing. Maybe it's the missing elevator dialogue.

I know the change in the inventory management has reduced some sense of immersion I felt while playing the game versus ME1.

Maybe it's the Mako. I do miss the Mako, even though I do agree it became a repetitive requirement, but no more so than planet scanning. I hope the Hammerhead DLC restores some of the Mako experience.

Maybe it's the ending of ME2. In ME1, there was such a great sensation of "WE did it. We're galactic heros". This time around, I really don't have a compelling thought about the story or what's next, as if I missed playing a part of the game, and missed out on some crucial bit of story line. It's very odd.

I don't mean for this post to be a complaint about ME2 because it is an improvement in so many ways over ME1. However, I thought I would share this empty feeling I am having, in hopes of some therapy. 

Does anyone feel the same way?  

Perhaps it's just the typical melancholy that sets in after completing the experience of something you wait for with great expectation.

It's not just you that noticed how the "story" in ME2 didn't match up to Bioware's previous epic installments.  The problem with ME2 is absolutley the lack of powerful story elements.  There is a great lack of sense that covers the whole game like a blanket that smells of foot fungus and anal leakage.  Brining shepard back to life after re-entry?  Really?  Solid rock the size of a volkswagon can re-enter an atmosphere and end up the size of a pea.  But Shepard's body we well enough intact to reconstruct.... no... just no.   But I could go on for days about how the story feels like a recount from Conrad Verner rather than the actual story.

Just know you are not alone and many many people agree with you that somethin just ain't right in ME2.

[Jeremy Winston]

Daeion wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Perhaps you missed that we were not comparing the richness or quality of the story, but rather the general act2/act3 framework. Both trilogies started off with a first act that needed a solid ending, because there may not be a sequel.

Both succeeded and the second acts were made knowing that there would be a third act.

Before you start calling something 'laughable' you may want to read the arguments more closely.

I've always heard BioWare intended for this to be a trilogy so really it's kind of hard for me to accept that the first one needed a solid ending because their may not be a sequal, and even if there is going to be a sequal, doens't mean you can't have a strong ending.

There's a big difference between knowing there will be a part 2 and 3 and not knowing it.  I agree that ME2 could have ended with more fanfare, instead of just yelling at TIM, but they set ME2 up as a prelude to an ME3 that they know they will be doing.

ME1... they couldn't be sure.

I'm pretty sure they always intended for Mass Effect to be a trilogy so that to me says they should have developed it as one.

Babylon 5 was always intended to be a five year arch, but season four was written so it could end there, and suffered because of it.

It was hoped it would be a trilogy, perhaps.  But until it did well, no one knew