102 réponses à ce sujet

[alperez]

[quote]Daeion wrote...


You mean after ME you didn't think the reapers were a real threat and the fact that Soverign was trying to activate the citadel didn't tell you the reckoning was on hand?

No but without soverign activating the beacon which we stopped the according to the info we had the reapers were still in dark space and awaiting the signal, without the signal why would they attack? We of course knew the were the real threat and nowhere did i say they weren;t however in stopping the signal being broadcast we have no info regarding how they will attack or when or if they can still manage to attack without the ability of coming through the relay on the citadel. All we have is shepard saying they're still out there, wheras now we now that they are coming.



They already decided to do the job themselves when Sovereign tried to activate the citadel and the collectors aren't their allies, they are their tools.

Sovereign was the sleeper they left behind to organise things and to tell them when to attack, with sovereigns defeat there is no info that they have any info on what happened or are doing anything other than waiting for the signal in the first place. Sovereign only raises himself because of the problem in the signal and he is the sleeper as i say, so without sovereigns input where is the info they already decided to do the job themselves.

THere isn;t any, as far as we know the reapers are like i say still waiting and could be waiting for a very long time for a signal they believe will come which we know will not.


that doesn't really progress the story but w/e

 in your opinion the fact that the reapers even though they were supposedly awaiting a signal in a state of hibernation in dark space, know sovereign failed and that the reason for this failure was because of humans so they use the collectors to gather as much info on humans, raid colonies so they can study and use humans in order to understand and negate the theat posed by them doesn;t move the story along, then i can only say your missing the point.
 
.

We learned these things during ME and it wasn't us but the last of the protheans who prevented the keepers from activating the citadel relay again.

Read what i said beforre you post your reply, i said we learned these things in me1 and i think the simple fact we destroyed sovereign stopping him from reactivating the signal shows we stopped the plan, the protheans stopped the original signal but it still would have been sent or did you miss the plotline in me1 also.




How was the threat stopped?  The reapers were trying to get back so they could wipe everyone out and shep knew this.

Because without the signal being sent with the info we then had on the reapers they were awaiting the signal to begin thier attack, therefore even though shepard knew they were still out there we had no info saying they could or would still attack only a feeling that this was likely. As far as we knew the cycle went they slept for however long it took, reawakend when the signal was sent and began the cycle again, so by not sending the signal it can be assumed that they would stiill wait until the signal was sent regardless of the time scale. They left sovereign to decide when the signal should be sent, so why would they not just keep waiting until it got sent, no matter how long it took.


As I pointed out above, we already knew most of what you listed from ME, and Shep was flying around fighting Geth because the council didn't want to believe in the reaper threat and instead wanted to focus on the geth which they knew were real.

Which is exactly the point, if shepard felt that the reapers where the immenient threat that you describe then no matter what the council said thats what shepard should have been doing, instead shepard is off flying around taking out geth with no real urgency regarding the reapers.

What me2's plotline shows us the situation is about to come to a head and that shepard knows this and nothing else matters.


Sorry for the bold only way i can differentiate between yours and my comments.

Modifié par alperez, 19 février 2010 - 11:22 .

[Chained_Creator]

I am content with the game I purchased. This does not mean that I do not want more, this only means that I recognize that the game as it really exist is absolutely amazing, not as it "could be" in fairytale land of awesomeness and bunnies and win and other cool stuff.

[PandemicFear]

It feels shorter, yes, but I checked my time and I spent 40 hours on 1 playthrough. That's half as much as I spent on 3 ME1 playthroughs (80 hours), and I did literally EVERYTHING in ME1.

[Sharn01]

Nozybidaj wrote...

I don't see how folks can compare ME2 to ESB. ESB did a lot to move to plot forward by showing development for the established characters and their friendships/relationships, it included startling revelations about the protagonist, and even managed to introduce a few new faces.

The only thing ME2 did was introduce a new cast of characters. We had no new revelations about Shepard or saw him grow in any significant way, out of the existing characters only half of them were even in the game to get any sort of character development, and the main plot against the enemy wasn't even advanced. Nothing ever really moved forward at all.

The things ME2 did do (new character introductions) it did well enough, but to say it is comparable to ESB? That is pretty laughable.

[meznaric]

Chained_Creator wrote...

I am content with the game I purchased. This does not mean that I do not want more, this only means that I recognize that the game as it really exist is absolutely amazing, not as it "could be" in fairytale land of awesomeness and bunnies and win and other cool stuff.

As for me, I don't think the game is BAD. But I agree with the OP, maybe it's just that I had very high expectations and the game ended up not meeting those.

[DuffyMJ]

I feel like ME2 was exactly like Halo 2... It just repeated all the plot points from the first game, revealed pretty much nothing new about the ancient mystery aspect of the story (Forerunner in the second Halo, Forerunners is the second Mass Effect) and what they did reveal ended up being totally sci-fi camp lameness (the little shop of horror monster thing from Halo 2, the Human-Reaper in Mass Effect 2). It's too bad for both franchises. It's why you unforunately gotta lower expectations for sequals nowadays, because chances are the story teller has told whatever has been brewing in his/her mind in the original, and everything written for the sequal is just too forced to be good creativity.



I mean, looking at things realistically, what more should there have been to say after Mass Effect 1? The Reapers were trapped in Dark Space, the council human or alien was ready to unite the galaxy, the Protheans didn't die in vain and were absolved/avenged, Tali got her info about the Geth that would save the flotilla, Garrus found closure to the Dr. Saleon episode, Wrex got his armor, ash (if she died i guess) reclaimed her family honor or if she lived got shep, liara got shepard and or found ilos...

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

I had high expectations for ME2 and I wasn't disappointed largely in anyway, combat was sweet, seeing all of your old friends was good (although lacking w/Liara somewhat), and the quests were excellent.



My only large disappointmetns were:

- The Citadel, I was looking forward to returning there and it was just so tiny

- Lack of dialogue between characters and on the ship like Garrus' weapon calibration.

[Jimbe2693]

It's the orange HUD/Menus , Cerberus makes me feel uneasy, and being out in the terminus systems makes the game feel dark.

Oh and not being able to walk around the presidium, being restricted to the Zakera ward, and humans infesting C-sec.

Modifié par Jimbe2693, 20 février 2010 - 12:19 .

[Daeion]

where's my delete option

Modifié par Daeion, 20 février 2010 - 12:32 .

[Daeion]

Cleaned up,

I'll need to find an Illos save but I believe Vigil says the signal was suppsoed to come from the reapers in dark space and that Sovereign was only left behind in case something went wrong.  The protheans reprogrammed the keepers so they would not accept the signal and activate the citadel relay and that forces sovereign to act.

[quote]alperez wrote...

[quote]Daeion wrote...

You mean after ME you didn't think the reapers were a real threat and the fact that Soverign was trying to activate the citadel didn't tell you the reckoning was on hand?
[/quote]

No but without soverign activating the beacon which we stopped the according to the info we had the reapers were still in dark space and awaiting the signal, without the signal why would they attack? We of course knew the were the real threat and nowhere did i say they weren;t however in stopping the signal being broadcast we have no info regarding how they will attack or when or if they can still manage to attack without the ability of coming through the relay on the citadel. All we have is shepard saying they're still out there, wheras now we now that they are coming.

[/quote]


[quote]alperez wrote...

[quote]Daeion wrote...
They already decided to do the job themselves when Sovereign tried to activate the citadel and the collectors aren't their allies, they are their tools.
[/quote]
Sovereign was the sleeper they left behind to organise things and to tell them when to attack, with sovereigns defeat there is no info that they have any info on what happened or are doing anything other than waiting for the signal in the first place. Sovereign only raises himself because of the problem in the signal and he is the sleeper as i say, so without sovereigns input where is the info they already decided to do the job themselves.

THere isn;t any, as far as we know the reapers are like i say still waiting and could be waiting for a very long time for a signal they believe will come which we know will not.
[/quote]


[quote]alperez wrote...



[quote]Daeion wrote...
that doesn't really progress the story but w/e
[/quote]

 in your opinion the fact that the reapers even though they were supposedly awaiting a signal in a state of hibernation in dark space, know sovereign failed and that the reason for this failure was because of humans so they use the collectors to gather as much info on humans, raid colonies so they can study and use humans in order to understand and negate the theat posed by them doesn;t move the story along, then i can only say your missing the point.
 
[/quote]


[quote]alperez wrote...

[quote]Daeion wrote...
We learned these things during ME and it wasn't us but the last of the protheans who prevented the keepers from activating the citadel relay again.[/quote]

Read what i said beforre you post your reply, i said we learned these things in me1 and i think the simple fact we destroyed sovereign stopping him from reactivating the signal shows we stopped the plan, the protheans stopped the original signal but it still would have been sent or did you miss the plotline in me1 also.

[/quote]


[quote]alperez wrote...

[quote]Daeion wrote...
How was the threat stopped?  The reapers were trying to get back so they could wipe everyone out and shep knew this.[/quote]

Because without the signal being sent with the info we then had on the reapers they were awaiting the signal to begin thier attack, therefore even though shepard knew they were still out there we had no info saying they could or would still attack only a feeling that this was likely. As far as we knew the cycle went they slept for however long it took, reawakend when the signal was sent and began the cycle again, so by not sending the signal it can be assumed that they would stiill wait until the signal was sent regardless of the time scale. They left sovereign to decide when the signal should be sent, so why would they not just keep waiting until it got sent, no matter how long it took.
[/quote]


[quote]alperez wrote...

[quote]Daeion wrote...
As I pointed out above, we already knew most of what you listed from ME, and Shep was flying around fighting Geth because the council didn't want to believe in the reaper threat and instead wanted to focus on the geth which they knew were real.
[/quote]

Which is exactly the point, if shepard felt that the reapers where the immenient threat that you describe then no matter what the council said thats what shepard should have been doing, instead shepard is off flying around taking out geth with no real urgency regarding the reapers.

What me2's plotline shows us the situation is about to come to a head and that shepard knows this and nothing else matters.


Sorry for the bold only way i can differentiate between yours and my comments.

[/quote]

Modifié par Daeion, 20 février 2010 - 12:50 .

[Axx Bytehoven]

I don't think the game is bad either. I just hope BioWare writers can use the feedback if they are inclined to except feedback.



Perhaps I would have had a different reaction and response had I not exposed myself to any of the pre-game information.



Oh well, I'll be hard pressed to keep playing ME2 short of the promised DLC arrival. A very different outcome for me regarding how many times I played ME1. And my extended ME1 play was not just because of the multiplay requirement to gain squad member achievements.



Maybe it's a good thing. I need to spend some serious time getting ready for the next EA release in a couple of weeks.

[Anthropophobic]

Welder0 wrote...

I had a great time with ME1; an even better one with ME2.

I'll be first in line to buy ME3.

If I want to watch epic sci fi, I'll spin up Bladerunner.

If I want to play an epic shooter, maybe I'll boot up Halo.

But if I want to be the shooter, and the protagonist in the movie...

Blade Runner isn't epic sci-fi. It's incredibly dreary and slow paced.

Mass Effect is epic sci-fi, and Mass Effect 2 tries to be epic sci-fi and fails. Not sure what it was, but maybe it was the fact that Mass Effect 2 just seems to set the stage for Mass Effect 3. Whatever the excuse is, the story of Mass Effect 2 is pretty disappointing. Surely they could have found a more interesting way to waste time while the Reapers were making their way to the galaxy? As far as I can remember, the Collectors were never even mentioned in the first game (which was really big on exposition). Plus, the Collector-related missions make up a really small fraction of the game.

I don't think "It's character-driven now" is an excuse. The character subplots should be at least loosely tied to the Collectors. Plus, there isn't that much character development. At the very least, the characters in your squad should talk more (in and out of combat).

Modifié par Anthropophobic, 20 février 2010 - 12:50 .

[The Other One]

Axx Bytehoven wrote...

TerribleTruth wrote... What caused this?
Was it not magically holding 9999 weapons and ammo types in your ass anymore?
Was it that different guns don't look exactly the same anymore?

I feel ya. But like building a light saber in Kotor, building the "perfect" weapon in ME1 was also very entertaining and fed my obsessive/compulsive disorder.

It was fine in KOTOR 1, but KOTOR 2 was ridiculous. There were too many meaningless choices.

ME1 was ok. I think ME2 went a little too far in the opposite direction (not enough options, and what you could upgrade and when was a little too tightly controlled), but it was ok.

Someone mentioned the MAKO. It was fun to run it off a high ledge and try to roll it, but other than that I hated it. Trying to drive up those ridiculously steep mountains was really annoying. I much prefer scanning a grid (though after scanning a nebula or two it gets kind of tedious).

[finc.loki]

neubourn wrote...

It feels shorter, because the story changed from Plot Driven to Character Driven. Overall, the game pretty much clocks in about the same time (30-40 hours), and the "Main Plot" missions are about the same in number:

Cerberus Facility/Intro --> Eden Prime/Intro
Omega ---> Citadel
Horizon ---> Liara Dig site
Collector Ship ---> Feros
Derelict Reaper ---> Noveria
Reaper IFF/Normandy ambush ---> Virmire
Omega 4 relay/Collector Base ---> Illos/Citadel assault

So yeah, time wise, it is about the same as ME1, there are plenty of side missions on both, but the quality is better in ME2. ME1 was an Epic Space tale, whereas ME2 is a character driven story that ties into the ME1 story. Thats probably why it feels different.

I have to disagree.

The main missions aren't even remotely close in time spent on them.

Horizon and liara dig site might be about the same.
The rest are not even in the same ballpark. Collectorship takes 30min or less to complete and contains nothing worth of a story, some slight reference to the Collectors being genetically modified Protheans that's about it.
Feros is huge, it has several areas to explore and combat in, with many smaller sidequests.
Feros could take hours to complete.

Derilict reaper/IFF another 20-30 min main mission.
Noveria is also a larger gaming hub and combat area, several hours worth of play there as well.

Normandy ambush = interactive cutscene not even worth mentioning.
Virmire at least an hour or two depending how fast you play.

Illos and citadel assault was much bigger than the Colllector base with it's forced timed mission making it a run-through in a short rushed time.

ME2 is all about recruiting squad members so the actual main story/plot falls flat on it's face.
This is also why ME2 leaves you empty, it feels like a bunch of sidequest and the main mission has no story at all and is literally 2-2 1/2 hours long.

ME is fun gameplay wise and combat wise but lacks severely in an actual fun plot and unraveling of a story.

ME1 is so much more exciting in  that regard, ME2 is mostly fun with combat.

I fear for ME3, what will we do in that game?
My bet is that we will travel around ala ME2 to recruit again, only this time we recruit factions.
Like we go to the Rachni for help, the non-heretic geth, citadel and alliance to amass a large force to face the fleet of Reapers.
Which will be defeated ala "independence day" with some kind of virus that shut them down.
Cliche up the wazoo.
Honestly it took all the forces of the citadel community to destroy one reaper, there are thousands of those just outside our galaxy.

They would never be able to defeat them unless they can be "shut down", or some game magic invents the super duper ultra thanix gun that can destroy solar systems in one blast.

For me I like ME1 the most for the compelling story , I like ME 2 for the combat and better graphics.
ME2 however feels like it's one giant compilation of side quest with very little meaning.
It is all so compartimentalized, smaller game areas set-up for what basically boils down to combat game play.

In ME 1 you had all the story and conversations and trying to convince the council. It felt like you really were on a mission to do something.
You were the spectre and you're investigating.

Part of the problem for ME2 is that we already know much of the story.
Honestly it feels like what was the point of the collectors? The were just there as a new kind of enemy and their goal was to build a human skeleton reaper to replace "Sovereign"?
The Collector general was shown but had no purpose at all, you never faced him in battle he was just a talking puppet for a reaper.

In the first game it took a fricken armada of ships to destroy one reaper, in ME2 it took a sniper rifle .
Yes I know it was a half finished reaper that was vunerable, but come on.

No wonder why there is an empty feeling story wise.

Don't get me wrong the game is great but it sucks really bad story wise. It really feels like that made a great story driven RPG game into a combat arena with pre placed walls to hide behind.

How are they going to handle ME3?

What if ALL your squad mates survived? Will they all be there in ME3 to play with?
What if they all died? Who will come back?
If you end up not having any of the squad members from ME2 in ME3 it feels like a really cheap filler they used for ME2 that ultimately meant nothing.

I know long rant, but I think there are some points in there worth thinking about.

[Daeion]

PandemicFear wrote...

It feels shorter, yes, but I checked my time and I spent 40 hours on 1 playthrough. That's half as much as I spent on 3 ME1 playthroughs (80 hours), and I did literally EVERYTHING in ME1.

My first play through of ME took me about 48 hours, my first play through on ME2 took me about 35, my latest ME2 run through with a brand new char doing everything I could took me 22 hours.

[Nozybidaj]

finc.loki wrote...
For me I like ME1 the most for the compelling story , I like ME 2 for the combat and better graphics.
ME2 however feels like it's one giant compilation of side quest with very little meaning.
It is all so compartimentalized, smaller game areas set-up for what basically boils down to combat game play.

Very nice post, but I wanted to highlight this part here as I feel it is a very good summation of the game.

[Daeion]

DuffyMJ wrote...
I mean, looking at things realistically, what more should there have been to say after Mass Effect 1? The Reapers were trapped in Dark Space, the council human or alien was ready to unite the galaxy, the Protheans didn't die in vain and were absolved/avenged, Tali got her info about the Geth that would save the flotilla, Garrus found closure to the Dr. Saleon episode, Wrex got his armor, ash (if she died i guess) reclaimed her family honor or if she lived got shep, liara got shepard and or found ilos...

I don't see how they were trapped, it's not like it's another dimension, I take dark space to be past any explored area of the universe thus they can still come via FTL, it will just take longer.

[Nozybidaj]

DuffyMJ wrote...

I mean, looking at things realistically, what more should there have been to say after Mass Effect 1? The Reapers were trapped in Dark Space, the council human or alien was ready to unite the galaxy, the Protheans didn't die in vain and were absolved/avenged, Tali got her info about the Geth that would save the flotilla, Garrus found closure to the Dr. Saleon episode, Wrex got his armor, ash (if she died i guess) reclaimed her family honor or if she lived got shep, liara got shepard and or found ilos...

What more should there have been?  I think the answer is right there in your post.  "The Reapers were trapped in Dark Space"

I didn't think for a minute after I had finished playing ME1 that the Reapers were just gonna kick back and go "Ah well, guess our cycle of extincition is over now".  Obviously (to me at least) ME2 was going to be about how the Reapers were going to try and get through now that their vanguard was dead.  Shepard would have been trying to stop them and ultimately fail at the end leading to ME3.

Seems they are just kinda randomly appear out of dark space anyway, judging by the end of ME2.  No explanation required apparently. <_<

[GuardianAngel470]

Axx Bytehoven wrote...

TerribleTruth wrote... What caused this?
Was it not magically holding 9999 weapons and ammo types in your ass anymore?
Was it that different guns don't look exactly the same anymore?

I feel ya. But like building a light saber in Kotor, building the "perfect" weapon in ME1 was also very entertaining and fed my obsessive/compulsive disorder.

Not to mention the weapons did look different. Hurricanes looked way different than the scimitars, and all of the Spectre weapons looked different.  The only problem is that each numerical change did not equal an appearance change.

[Seraosha]

To be honest, I don't find either Mass Effect particularly replayable. Good for a couple of go's, but you can definitely have too much of a good thing. Especially when it involves so much omni-gel management/makoing/planet scanning to have the full experience each time >.<

[Daeion]

Anthropophobic wrote...

Mass Effect is epic sci-fi, and Mass Effect 2 tries to be epic sci-fi and fails. Not sure what it was, but maybe it was the fact that Mass Effect 2 just seems to set the stage for Mass Effect 3. Whatever the excuse is, the story of Mass Effect 2 is pretty disappointing. Surely they could have found a more interesting way to waste time while the Reapers were making their way to the galaxy? As far as I can remember, the Collectors were never even mentioned in the first game (which was really big on exposition). Plus, the Collector-related missions make up a really small fraction of the game.

The Collectors aren't mentioned until the 2nd book.  I still feel that ME 2 should have come before ME.  It sets the stage well for ME and ME sets the stage well for me.  ME2 feels like a prequal, not a sequal.  We go from fighting the biggest threat in the galaxy to fighting a bunch of henchmen.  It's like Batman taking down the Joker in the first comic and then in the next comic all he does is fight Joker's henchmen.

[Akrylik]

think about it this way: mass effect 1 was it's own little adventure, self sufficient in its own right with a complete and simple plot forumula. ME2 takes a new plot, one of much greater difficulty and significance, something that one game couldn't effectively handle alone if it wanted to stay proportional with the importance of the conflict.

ME1 had saren and a reaper, ME3 has...the rest of the reapers, ME2's job was to build up upon this (along with the filler sideplot of getting rid of the collectors).

[Seraosha]

Seraosha wrote...

To be honest, I don't find either Mass Effect particularly replayable. Good for a couple of go's, but you can definitely have too much of a good thing. Especially when it involves so much omni-gel management/makoing/planet scanning to have the full experience each time >.<

Though having said that, I desperately do want to see the ending where everyone, including Shepard, dies. I think that'll be the obsession that takes me finish a third play through. I've already tired of my vanilla effort..

[Daeion]

The Other One wrote...

Axx Bytehoven wrote...

TerribleTruth wrote... What caused this?
Was it not magically holding 9999 weapons and ammo types in your ass anymore?
Was it that different guns don't look exactly the same anymore?

I feel ya. But like building a light saber in Kotor, building the "perfect" weapon in ME1 was also very entertaining and fed my obsessive/compulsive disorder.

It was fine in KOTOR 1, but KOTOR 2 was ridiculous. There were too many meaningless choices.

ME1 was ok. I think ME2 went a little too far in the opposite direction (not enough options, and what you could upgrade and when was a little too tightly controlled), but it was ok.

Someone mentioned the MAKO. It was fun to run it off a high ledge and try to roll it, but other than that I hated it. Trying to drive up those ridiculously steep mountains was really annoying. I much prefer scanning a grid (though after scanning a nebula or two it gets kind of tedious).

Hoenstly they should have simply cut out about 50% of the manufacturers and given at most 5 lvls of a weapon/piece of armor.  The mako was lame, but we are suppsoed to be getting the hammerhead at some point which should be better since it's a hover tank.  While the mako was lame, it was a hundred times better then playing probe wars IMO.

Modifié par Daeion, 20 février 2010 - 01:33 .

[Daeion]

Seraosha wrote...

To be honest, I don't find either Mass Effect particularly replayable. Good for a couple of go's, but you can definitely have too much of a good thing. Especially when it involves so much omni-gel management/makoing/planet scanning to have the full experience each time >.<

PC version ftw, no more planet scanning for me.